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Author Topic: Hunting Party Combos  (Read 13921 times)

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Mean Mr Mustard

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Hunting Party Combos
« on: December 08, 2011, 12:24:38 am »
+2

For the purpose of this article, each combo described will be the crux of a pretty standard Hunting Party engine; the deck in most of these cases should be built exactly to the same specs: 1-3 Silver, 1 Gold, 1 linchpin card and as many Hunting Parties as can be massed in time to end the game in a win.  The linchpin can be described as any Kingdom card that is not a terminal draw or cycle card.  These terminals will completely disrupt a Hunting Party engine and should be avoided.

<b>Hunting Party/Horse Traders</b>

Horse Traders is an excellent focus of a Hunting Party engine for two reasons: first of all it can help a lot to get the $5 needed to buy early Hunting Parties, and secondly it gives $2 and a buy once the engine is firing.  Any $2 terminal can be used in a Hunting Party deck.  Militia, Swindler etc can all be used to success but I feel that Horse Traders is a cut above the standard for the help it gives in getting the engine rolling in the early game.

<b>Hunting Party/Scheme/X</b>

Adding a scheme or two to a Hunting Party deck is pure love.  The deck can handle the Schemes rather well, and as a rule I never add extra engine cards to this style of deck.  Scheme is the exception.  I like to play the Schemes as soon as they appear, before continuing the chain.  With two Schemes in a focused deck it is pretty much a given that each turn will begin with two Hunting Party plays.

<b>Hunting Party/Secret Chamber</b>

Typically, a Hunting Party deck can stall once too many victory cards have been added.  For this reason I try to avoid Duchies as long as I can get away with it.  Duchies cause a flagging Hunting Party deck to die.  Secret Chamber transforms a handful of useless greens into cash.

<b>Hunting Party/Mandarin</b>

I do not know how great this is opening 3/4, but with 5/2 it is awesomeness incarnate.  Buy the Mandarin, put the $5 back on top and buy the Hunting Party.  The really nice thing about this combo is that once the deck has generated enough cash to Province you can use Mandarin to put an extra Hunting Party on top of the deck for a jump start on the next turn.  This is a very fast deck unless some serious bad luck occurs.

<b>Hunting Party/Haggler</b>

I have found this to be about the sweetest card to play with Hunting Party.  On the typical late turn chain up to $6 + Haggler, buy a Province and gain an extra Hunting Party.  This jolt of power will keep the deck running strong all the way to the end.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 12:49:04 am by Mean Mr Mustard »
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PerdHapley

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 01:42:12 am »
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Hunting Party is probably my favorite card in the game. Definitely agree with Haggler being it's best partner. I'd add Governor to the list for it's ability to supply you with Gold while you use your buys to rack up Hunting Parties and then trash/replace Golds liberally for Provinces.

Here's an example where a slight variant of this gets me to 6 Provinces in 13 turns:http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/07/game-20111207-222333-00ee4b82.html
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dondon151

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, 01:45:21 am »
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I'd think that Hunting Party / Monument is good in theory because you can play the Monument consistently. It's probably not as powerful as the combinations listed in the OP, though.
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Lekkit

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2011, 01:47:44 am »
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Hunting Party is one of my favourite single card-engines. Monument/Silver is also one of my favourite openings. So I guess Monument/Silver into HP would suit me just fine.
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Davio

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2011, 03:29:44 am »
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I'd think that Hunting Party / Monument is good in theory because you can play the Monument consistently. It's probably not as powerful as the combinations listed in the OP, though.
Well, in this case Monument is at par with all of the beloved Cursers/other Attacks of course.
But they are all pretty straightforward and not so surprising.

I like the OP, because it lists a couple of new/unexpected combo's.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 03:54:14 am »
+1

Hunting Party is handled pretty accurately by the simulator so I plugged these combos into the existing HP-shell and put them up against an optimized Envoy Big Money bot. Here are the results:

Hunting Party Big Money loses against Envoy: 38-56 and same for the $5/$2 opening

+Horse Traders: 60-35 and 57-38 for $5/$2
+Secret Chamber: 41-51 but 55-38 for the $5/$2 opening which improves it a lot!
+Mandarin: only the $5/$2 opening improves here: 45-48 (the $4/$3 hates Mandarin) but it’s better still because the simulator doesn’t put back HP’s
+Haggler: 46-45 and 63-30 for the $5/$2
+Monument: this is the sickest and probably most surprising result: 80-17 and 72-23 for the $5/$2
+Governor: the simulator can’t really handle that card (yet)
+Baron: 77-19 and 61-33 for the $5/$2 (this bot does NOT buy Gold…ever!)

Monument comes out a clear winner, but that card is vastly underrated.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 08:08:36 am »
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I did a bit of work for this kind of thing on my old laptop several months back (so... I've lost all the data), and iirc basically any terminal silver was okay. +Buys are pretty darn good. Woodcutter much better than you'd think, and... bridge is actually quite strong. The thing with the +Buy cards is that you want to buy double HP in a good number of cases early enough on. Also, in all cases, you want to buy estate a good deal earlier and duchy a bit later than you normally would.
With Hinterlands, I'm interested to look at HP+Tunnel and HP+Farmland. Not sure the sim handles farmland so well though...
And I knew that Monument was the catbird here, 'cept I still think mountebank is a touch stronger head-to-head, iirc.

Mean Mr Mustard

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 08:18:23 am »
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I have tried to make HP/Tunnel work but it <b>sucks</b>.

Edit: Geronimoo: What is your buy order for Duchy?  I have found that it is best to avoid them for as long as possible.  Have you experimented with this?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 08:23:23 am by Mean Mr Mustard »
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Geronimoo

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2011, 08:48:54 am »
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HP/Tunnel is only very slightly better than HP/money in a 5/2 opening, but it's worse for $4/$3.

And yes, Duchy buying needs to be postponed as long as possible (even buy Estates earlier). I'd suggest buying them when you don't think you're going to reshuffle anymore this game.
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greatexpectations

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2011, 12:21:47 pm »
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I did a bit of work for this kind of thing on my old laptop several months back (so... I've lost all the data), and iirc basically any terminal silver was okay. +Buys are pretty darn good. Woodcutter much better than you'd think, and... bridge is actually quite strong. The thing with the +Buy cards is that you want to buy double HP in a good number of cases early enough on. Also, in all cases, you want to buy estate a good deal earlier and duchy a bit later than you normally would.

i find it amusing that i had a game against you with hunting party / bridge so soon after this post. a nice combo, but it wasn't as fast as your council room / fool's gold.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2011, 12:29:26 pm »
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I did a bit of work for this kind of thing on my old laptop several months back (so... I've lost all the data), and iirc basically any terminal silver was okay. +Buys are pretty darn good. Woodcutter much better than you'd think, and... bridge is actually quite strong. The thing with the +Buy cards is that you want to buy double HP in a good number of cases early enough on. Also, in all cases, you want to buy estate a good deal earlier and duchy a bit later than you normally would.

i find it amusing that i had a game against you with hunting party / bridge so soon after this post. a nice combo, but it wasn't as fast as your council room / fool's gold.
Problem is that CR-Fool's Gold is crazy fast on 5/2. On 4/3 I would've gone for basically the same thing you did (although, I guess FG/FG might be better?). I won this one on the back of shuffle luck of the opening.

Graystripe77

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2011, 01:56:31 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/09/game-20111209-105435-1a73823a.html

Hunting Party/Haggler along with the Shanty Town/Spice Merchant Combo is extremely effective.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2011, 09:51:53 am »
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jotheonah

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2011, 01:06:21 pm »
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I just tried Hunting Party/Bishop and did very well, buying six of the Provinces and getting chips every turn. However I think a more competent opponent would have taken advantage of my every turn free trashing and built something that could buy faster.  Still, it was a good demonstration of the power of HP!
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Graystripe77

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2011, 07:21:07 pm »
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What about HP/Countinghouse as a counter to MB?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 07:24:36 pm by Graystripe77 »
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Deadlock39

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2011, 11:21:59 pm »
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HP Counting House seems to be pretty good.   In one test, I got 4 provinces in 15 turns.  That was without the extra unique card of curse in the deck, so I am not sure where that would put you, but it at least works okay.

HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2011, 12:26:49 am »
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But mountebank + HP is pretty good too. I don't really see counting house being able to keep up with that.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2011, 10:30:42 am »
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HP/Chancellor is damn fast:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/11/game-20111211-065115-98a2c119.html
And yet the sims show that it's one of the worst terminal silvers to combo with HP (on average). In fact, in the dedicated HP deck, the Chancellor effect often gives you... nothing.

kn1tt3r

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2011, 11:00:07 am »
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HP/Chancellor is damn fast:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/11/game-20111211-065115-98a2c119.html
And yet the sims show that it's one of the worst terminal silvers to combo with HP (on average). In fact, in the dedicated HP deck, the Chancellor effect often gives you... nothing.
I have the feeling that you need less HPs to make it work...
but obviously it was just some shuffle luck in the mentioned game.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 11:20:29 am »
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HP/Chancellor is damn fast:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/11/game-20111211-065115-98a2c119.html
And yet the sims show that it's one of the worst terminal silvers to combo with HP (on average). In fact, in the dedicated HP deck, the Chancellor effect often gives you... nothing.
I have the feeling that you need less HPs to make it work...
but obviously it was just some shuffle luck in the mentioned game.
Why would you need fewer HPs here?

ecq

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2011, 12:18:11 pm »
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I know Geronimoo mentioned this, but things got lost in the discussion about Monument.

HP + Baron is really nice.

HP really wants +buy.  You want turns where you can pick up 2x HP, or Province + HP.  HP also virtually guarantees an Estate in your hand, unless you're trashing (and trashing in an HP deck is questionable).

I also like HP + Bank in Colony games.  Bank is cheaper than Platinum and is very often worth more when using HP.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2011, 12:22:49 pm »
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HP/Chancellor is damn fast:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/11/game-20111211-065115-98a2c119.html
And yet the sims show that it's one of the worst terminal silvers to combo with HP (on average). In fact, in the dedicated HP deck, the Chancellor effect often gives you... nothing.
I have the feeling that you need less HPs to make it work...
but obviously it was just some shuffle luck in the mentioned game.
Why would you need fewer HPs here?
Oh sry, didnt see.

Often surplus HPs are used to cycle your deck into the discard in order to be able to draw your HPs again next turn. With Chancellor this isn't necessary and you might have less dead draws.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2011, 06:20:12 pm »
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HP/Chancellor is damn fast:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/11/game-20111211-065115-98a2c119.html
And yet the sims show that it's one of the worst terminal silvers to combo with HP (on average). In fact, in the dedicated HP deck, the Chancellor effect often gives you... nothing.
I have the feeling that you need less HPs to make it work...
but obviously it was just some shuffle luck in the mentioned game.
Why would you need fewer HPs here?
Oh sry, didnt see.

Often surplus HPs are used to cycle your deck into the discard in order to be able to draw your HPs again next turn. With Chancellor this isn't necessary and you might have less dead draws.
I actually don't think that's true at all. Your HPs aren't at all used to get the deck in your discard pile. It doesn't really make a difference.
Of course, Chancellor is better than a random card that reads '+$2' for a HP deck, and MUCH better than navigator or duchess, but still ONE OF the worst.

snappy

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Re: Hunting Party Combos
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2011, 10:25:02 am »
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I actually don't think that's true at all. Your HPs aren't at all used to get the deck in your discard pile. It doesn't really make a difference.
Of course, Chancellor is better than a random card that reads '+$2' for a HP deck, and MUCH better than navigator or duchess, but still ONE OF the worst.

if you don't pay attention to your deck/discard piles, hunting party decks often reshuffle a pile of greens and coppers, screwing up your next hand. chancellor helps with this. another way to avoid this problem is ... to pay attention to your deck and discard piles.
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