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Author Topic: New Promo at Origins...  (Read 137394 times)

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blueblimp

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2014, 04:59:09 pm »
+4

Interesting that this card has an accountability hole. If you set it aside but don't have any <=$4 action card in your hand, you aren't required to show your hand to your opponents. Of course, this is unlikely to ever happen.

But actually I'm going to guess that this card is actually below average in terms of how often you get one.
With any engine strategy where you wouldn't already buy a Province with your first $8, which is most of them, it seems like a clearly good buy. I don't think you'll often need more than one.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 05:00:42 pm by blueblimp »
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AJD

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #76 on: June 12, 2014, 05:01:15 pm »
+2

And of course we can hypothetically strategize about the card before we even play it... anyone think that, given the chance, you might want to Swindle your opponent's Prince into a Province? :)
If my opponent has wanted a Prince instead of a Province, the odds are that I want him to have a Province instead of a Prince.

Depends how long ago he bought it.
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Axxle

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2014, 05:04:00 pm »
+12

Why is everyone avoiding the real question here. How many posts do we need to make in order to be ranked a Prince?
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #78 on: June 12, 2014, 05:05:09 pm »
+1

Prince of Sea Hag is just going to discard your opponent's top card every turn. The curses will almost be empty before you can even get a Prince. You may even play Sea Hag instead of Princing it just to give out the last curse.

Really fun and if you find it as the only curser in the black market deck, though, when you have a big deck  so playing it ten times normally would take forever.
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eHalcyon

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #79 on: June 12, 2014, 05:05:46 pm »
0

Goko should make this card cost 4 for like the first week it's released, just so that we can all get our craziness fix.

Oh man, it's plenty crazy at $8. I mean, I haven't played it against elite players, so maybe I won't have time to set Prince up in more online games. But using Prince on pretty much anything is awesome, so that helps you get some use out of it before the game ends.

Rats.  Remake.  Most forced trashers, really.  Tactician.

A princed Prince does nothing because you'll fail to trigger the "If you do" clause in "You may set this aside. If you do, set aside an Action card" at the beginning of each turn. I don't think the princes lose track of each other, they're identical twins after all.
I'm not sure why you think this... the Princed Prince is already set aside, so "set this aside" just means put it where it already is.  Clause trivially triggered.  Unless there are specifically two different "aside" places, one for Princes and one for targets of Prince.  Then the Princed Prince would, on some turn after he's played, "move" from the aside-space for Prince targets to the aside-space for Princes, and you'd get to put another action on that Prince.  So it either goes crazy, or it lets you put a target on the second Prince, once, on some later turn.  But I don't see how it would do nothing at all.

SCSN is absolutely correct.  "Set this aside" means moving the card from "not set aside" space to "set aside" space.  If it was already set aside previously, it can't be moved and therefore it can't be set aside again.  This is the same principle that prevents you from triggering Mining Village's +$2 multiple times with TR/KC.

Prince a Hermit for unlimited Madmen (you don't trash the Hermit)
You also don't discard the Hermit from play because it's set aside with Prince, and stays there.  So you never trigger the effect, "When you discard this from play... gain a Madman."  Sorry.
No, you do discard it from play. That triggers two effects: Prince's and Hermit's, and you get to decide the order. If you choose wrong, you'll lose the Hermit, but if you don't, you get to keep it.
Right, don't have the exact words of Prince down yet... and Hermit doesn't even have an "if you do" to guard the gain-Madman effect, just "trash this and gain a Madman."  Although one might argue that even if you pick the Prince effect first, it's possible for the Hermit to trash himself from set-aside-land.  A card can't exactly lose track of itself, can it?

sudgy already explained it well, but Prince-Hermit should work for the same reason that Scheme-Hermit works.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 05:07:14 pm by eHalcyon »
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AJD

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #80 on: June 12, 2014, 05:07:39 pm »
0

Why isn't Prince a Duration card? (Just so the whole Seaside rulebook doesn't have to be included with it, I guess.)

Using Prince on a Duration card fails, right?

And now I'm super-confused about what using Prince on Prince would do.

Some wiki-editing is in order, but I don't have time to do it right now.
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JacquesTheBard

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #81 on: June 12, 2014, 05:11:21 pm »
0

With really flexible cards like Steward or Count Prince is truly obscene. Steward especially, given how useful trashing is at the beginning and draw at the end.
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Awaclus

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2014, 05:12:29 pm »
0

With really flexible cards like Steward or Count Prince is truly obscene. Steward especially, given how useful trashing is at the beginning and draw at the end.
Scheme especially, I would say.
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eHalcyon

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2014, 05:14:21 pm »
0

Why isn't Prince a Duration card? (Just so the whole Seaside rulebook doesn't have to be included with it, I guess.)

Using Prince on a Duration card fails, right?

And now I'm super-confused about what using Prince on Prince would do.

Some wiki-editing is in order, but I don't have time to do it right now.

Prince as a Duration card -- you're probably right.  It would also be confusing for this to be the one Duration card that doesn't last just for the next turn.

Prince on a duration -- yes, it would fail on the turn that the duration card doesn't get discarded.  I think that means it might succeed for one turn with Outpost on an Outpost turn... I'm not sure.

Prince on Prince -- you set aside P1, then choose to set aside P2.  At the start of your next turn, you play P2 and set it aside.   Then you choose an action card from your hand to set aside.  At the end of that turn, you do not discard P2 and thus fail to set it aside again.  Therefore P1's effect is lost and P2 does not get played on any subsequent turn.  The action set aside for P2 will be played though.


With really flexible cards like Steward or Count Prince is truly obscene. Steward especially, given how useful trashing is at the beginning and draw at the end.

I think Prince-Steward would be great, but the trashing wouldn't matter much in this case.  By the time you get Prince, you'll usually have trashed down significantly with Steward already.  It could be helpful in junk-heavy games though.  But the choice between a free Wharf or Merchant Ship would already be very handy.


New question -- what happens when multiple players have Prince-Possession going?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 05:16:49 pm by eHalcyon »
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Awaclus

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2014, 05:16:18 pm »
+16

New question -- what happens when multiple players have Prince-Possession going?
They get disqualified for cheating, since Possession costs a Potion.
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sudgy

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #85 on: June 12, 2014, 05:16:30 pm »
+1

Why isn't Prince a Duration card? (Just so the whole Seaside rulebook doesn't have to be included with it, I guess.)

Using Prince on a Duration card fails, right?

And now I'm super-confused about what using Prince on Prince would do.

Some wiki-editing is in order, but I don't have time to do it right now.

Prince as a Duration card -- you're probably right.  It would also be confusing for this to be the one Duration card that doesn't last just for the next turn.

Prince on a duration -- yes, it would fail on the turn that the duration card doesn't get discarded.  I think that means it might succeed for one turn with Outpost on an Outpost turn... I'm not sure.

Prince on Prince -- you set aside P1, then choose to set aside P2.  At the start of your next turn, you play P2 and set it aside.   Then you choose an action card from your hand to set aside.  At the end of that turn, you do not discard P2 and thus fail to set it aside again.  Therefore P1's effect is lost and P2 does not get played on any subsequent turn.  The action set aside for P2 will be played though.



New question -- what happens when multiple players have Prince-Possession going?

You can never play Prince on potion cost cards, thank goodness.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #86 on: June 12, 2014, 05:17:15 pm »
0

New question -- what happens when multiple players have Prince-Possession going?
They get disqualified for cheating, since Possession costs a Potion.

Whooops.  Good call. :P
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amalloy

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #87 on: June 12, 2014, 05:19:34 pm »
+7

New question -- what happens when multiple players have Prince-Possession going?
They get disqualified for cheating, since Possession costs a Potion.

Next promo card: Hi-Potion. +1 card, +1 action; while this is in play, all cards cost one potion less, but not less than zero.
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qmech

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #88 on: June 12, 2014, 05:25:52 pm »
+1

New question -- what happens when multiple players have Prince-Possession going?
They get disqualified for cheating, since Possession costs a Potion.

Next promo card: Hi-Potion. +1 card, +1 action; while this is in play, all cards cost one potion less, but not less than zero.

Hi-Potion: You may discard a card. If you do, you may trash up to 4 Curses.
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pst

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #89 on: June 12, 2014, 05:26:15 pm »
0

Why isn't Prince a Duration card? (Just so the whole Seaside rulebook doesn't have to be included with it, I guess.)

Also then it would be discarded when the princed card can't be set aside again, so you could reuse the Prince, which might be too good.
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Awaclus

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #90 on: June 12, 2014, 05:35:05 pm »
0

Hi-Potion: You may discard a card. If you do, you may trash up to 4 Curses.
I don't get it.
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Axxle

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #91 on: June 12, 2014, 05:37:52 pm »
+2

Hi-Potion: You may discard a card. If you do, you may trash up to 4 Curses.
I don't get it.
Bottled Fairy $10P Action-Duration: When you buy this put it in play, do not shuffle it into your deck at the end of the game. If you would lose the game, trash this and instead replay the game.
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amalloy

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #92 on: June 12, 2014, 05:40:59 pm »
0

Hi-Potion: You may discard a card. If you do, you may trash up to 4 Curses.
I don't get it.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Hi-Potion heals you, and trashing curses is kinda like healing? It seems like quite a stretch to me as well.
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sudgy

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #93 on: June 12, 2014, 05:46:43 pm »
+17

New question -- what happens when multiple players have Prince-Possession going?
They get disqualified for cheating, since Possession costs a Potion.

Next promo card: Hi-Potion. +1 card, +1 action; while this is in play, all cards cost one potion less, but not less than zero.

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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

yed

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #94 on: June 12, 2014, 05:50:00 pm »
0

Glad to see it finally came out; it's a really cool and powerful card, but not without risk.  Someone reply here when it's possible to order a copy!
You won't get it for free after the playtesting?

I didn't playtest it.  Don't see why I would get it for free anyway.
Oh it was LastFootnote, somehow I thought it was you.
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Tables

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #95 on: June 12, 2014, 05:50:15 pm »
+4

Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised nobody else commented on the set icon. It's confusion (I think)! It fits perfectly!
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

AJD

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #96 on: June 12, 2014, 05:54:00 pm »
+1

Prince on Prince -- you set aside P1, then choose to set aside P2.  At the start of your next turn, you play P2 and set it aside.   Then you choose an action card from your hand to set aside.  At the end of that turn, you do not discard P2 and thus fail to set it aside again.  Therefore P1's effect is lost and P2 does not get played on any subsequent turn.

Prince says "stop playing it if you fail to set it aside on a turn you play it". But you do set aside P2 on the second turn ("you play P2 and set it aside").

...I guess that doesn't matter, though, because it doesn't say "if you don't set it aside". It says "if you fail to set it aside", and you do "fail to set it aside" (in addition to successfully setting it aside earlier in the turn). Okay.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #97 on: June 12, 2014, 06:08:24 pm »
+23

Guess the other question is '[when] will Goko get this?"
Having no inside information whatsoever, at this point my first guess is never. As always I have to concede to the possibility that they've been rewriting the entire program from scratch and then everyone had to take maternity leave.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #98 on: June 12, 2014, 06:13:32 pm »
+2

What happens if you Prince an Island? You don't discard the Island from play, but every turn you do set the Island aside.
You stop playing the Island if Prince itself failed to set it aside. It almost looks like "with Prince" would have fit on the card but oh well. Prince cannot find the card on your Island mat and in some obscure way the rules cover this.

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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #99 on: June 12, 2014, 06:16:02 pm »
0

I recognize this card from the Outtakes. A variant of this is in the "Orphans" section of the outtakes:


Prince - $6 - Action
Set aside this and an action card from your hand costing up to $5. Play it at the start of each of your turns.


Quote from Donald X. himself:
"Prince was cool but really could only exist as a unique card like a prize; otherwise people would always be Princing Princes."

You proved yourself wrong, and I thank you for it. Really awesome card. Practically a 1-card expansion given how intense it is.

It's interesting to compare the price of the 2 variants, and how the older version let you set aside a $5.
At the start of playtesting it looked like that with the understanding that I would fix the duration etc. problems somehow. It turns out that playing the same card every turn is powerful.

In the outtakes article I was just repeating what I had thought back when, but obv. there were wordy and confusing ways around the problems.
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