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Author Topic: Strictly better than....  (Read 111109 times)

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SirPeebles

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #100 on: June 13, 2014, 09:59:04 am »
+1

My first ever post on these forums was on how to construct a strictly better card.

Summary:  Take an Action-Victory card, and publish a new one with "+1 victory token" attached.  Don't change the name.
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enfynet

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #101 on: June 13, 2014, 10:05:18 am »
0

After Guilds being published, can we consider "Take a Coin token" under the same premise?
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SirPeebles

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #102 on: June 13, 2014, 10:09:11 am »
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After Guilds being published, can we consider "Take a Coin token" under the same premise?

No.  In a Possession game you might not want your deck to be producing coin at all, let alone coin tokens.
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enfynet

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #103 on: June 13, 2014, 10:14:30 am »
+1

Aside from that one case, which is rare enough, I think it fits. To invalidate the Victory tokens you just need a card that can trade/spend them.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #104 on: June 13, 2014, 10:27:42 am »
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On-gain effect matters, because you could trash it and gain it from the trash with Graverobber in the same turn.

You can't gain from the trash with Graverobber given the challenge's stipulations.  Graverobber requires a cost condition be met, and we are ignoring cost.
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markusin

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #105 on: June 13, 2014, 11:32:40 am »
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My first ever post on these forums was on how to construct a strictly better card.

Summary:  Take an Action-Victory card, and publish a new one with "+1 victory token" attached.  Don't change the name.
But is it still strictly better if the extra VP tokens influence your opponent to, say, break PPR when they normally wouldn't when you yourself can't get the last Province? Like, if the extra token gives you a 4VP lead instead of a 3VP lead, your opponent is more likely to break PPR. Maybe you don't want that.

It's a "Play Adventurer before Poor House" kind of edge case tough.

While on the subject, Princess > Bridge without Throne Room and variants.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #106 on: June 13, 2014, 11:42:57 am »
+1

On-gain effect matters, because you could trash it and gain it from the trash with Graverobber in the same turn.

You can't gain from the trash with Graverobber given the challenge's stipulations.  Graverobber requires a cost condition be met, and we are ignoring cost.

Hmm... while you are technically correct (the best kind of correct), the point of ignoring costs was so to remove a universal edge case of, say, Upgrade.  The edge case with Border Village > Worker's Village comes because you can trash Border Village, gain Border Village, and gain a Wharf or something, so it's better to have in your hand, even though Worker's Village's effect is better.  Costs are involved there, but they aren't the source of the edge case. 
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Flip5ide

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #107 on: June 14, 2014, 01:54:15 am »
0

Vault>Secret Chamber
Noble Steed>Laboratory
Torturer>Smithy
Prince>Scheme? This new card is technical as heck.
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amalloy

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #108 on: June 14, 2014, 01:58:11 am »
0

Vault>Secret Chamber I'd rather not trigger that reshuffle
Noble Steed>Laboratory This seems right
Torturer>Smithy My opponent has Trader, or Menagerie
Prince>Scheme? I'd rather play my other action this turn and next, rather than next turn and every later turn

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eHalcyon

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #109 on: June 14, 2014, 02:37:44 am »
0

Vault>Secret Chamber
Noble Steed>Laboratory
Torturer>Smithy
Prince>Scheme? This new card is technical as heck.

Are you checking the rules I already mentioned?

Vault also fails because it gives opponents a benefit. Also, SC has a reaction.
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Grujah

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #110 on: June 14, 2014, 07:47:33 am »
+1

Butcher > Remodel ?
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silvern

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #111 on: June 14, 2014, 10:20:06 am »
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Easy puzzle: What is a case, besides all those possession/fairground type cases (as well as king's court, throne room, procession, prince, etc.) where highway is better than peddler on a board with no plus buy or cost-dependents?

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silverspawn

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #112 on: June 14, 2014, 10:22:43 am »
0

Easy puzzle: What is a case, besides all those possession/fairground type cases (as well as king's court, throne room, procession, prince, etc.) where highway is better than peddler on a board with no plus buy or cost-dependents?
any gain?

silvern

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #113 on: June 14, 2014, 10:25:44 am »
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Gain is always cost dependent, yes?
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soulnet

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #114 on: June 14, 2014, 10:26:34 am »
+1

Easy puzzle: What is a case, besides all those possession/fairground type cases (as well as king's court, throne room, procession, prince, etc.) where highway is better than peddler on a board with no plus buy or cost-dependents?

Highway does not come knocking the door during a nap.
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Awaclus

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #115 on: June 14, 2014, 10:26:51 am »
+1

Easy puzzle: What is a case, besides all those possession/fairground type cases (as well as king's court, throne room, procession, prince, etc.) where highway is better than peddler on a board with no plus buy or cost-dependents?
Poor House
Swindler, when you're going for Duchy/Duke (or does this count as a cost-dependent?)
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silvern

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #116 on: June 14, 2014, 10:29:15 am »
0

Poor House is what I was going for. I don't really see how Swindler is affected, can you explain?

EDIT: Oh, I see, yeah, I meant assuming that both cost the same.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 10:32:13 am by silvern »
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liopoil

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #117 on: June 14, 2014, 10:32:17 am »
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Poor house I guess is when you accidentally herald into it with 5 treasures in hand?
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silvern

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #118 on: June 14, 2014, 10:35:21 am »
0

Yep. And just in general; you can play highway and have the extra coin, whereas you can't do the same thing with peddler, since it will just get lost with poor house
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Flip5ide

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #119 on: June 14, 2014, 03:03:44 pm »
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How do Poor House and Highway work together?
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Awaclus

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #120 on: June 14, 2014, 03:21:18 pm »
0

How do Poor House and Highway work together?
Not at all. Peddler and Poor House, on the other hand, have a negative interaction sometimes.
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silverspawn

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #121 on: June 14, 2014, 03:23:59 pm »
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in my free time, i always produce money and destroy it with poor house. it's super fun
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 03:32:51 pm by silverspawn »
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Flip5ide

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #122 on: June 14, 2014, 09:37:41 pm »
0

How do Poor House and Highway work together?
Not at all. Peddler and Poor House, on the other hand, have a negative interaction sometimes.

Actually, that's what I meant by that
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Flip5ide

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #123 on: June 14, 2014, 09:59:36 pm »
0

So I'm not seeing how Highway can be anti-synergistic at all with Poor House..?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Strictly better than....
« Reply #124 on: June 14, 2014, 10:08:17 pm »
+1

So I'm not seeing how Highway can be anti-synergistic at all with Poor House..?

There isn't a way.  The question was how Highway could be better than Peddler (with a bunch of restrictions to rule out some easy answers).  The answer is that Peddler has a negative interaction with Poor House while Highway does not.
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