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Author Topic: What  (Read 3876 times)

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Titandrake

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What
« on: May 22, 2014, 03:13:47 am »
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http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140522/log.5136e2dee4b07cef820a1126.1400742394953.txt

I mean, what?

So, my plan is Swindler + Soothsayer BM. I can see some pretty big mistakes, like
1. Opening Swindler/Swindler over Swindler/Silver (hits $5 much less often, on T5 they collide and I would have had $5 if one was a Silver.)
2. 2nd KC is definitely too greedy.
3. First KC is maybe too greedy.

Then my opponent opens Hermit/Spy, trashes out Estates, and wrecks me with two KC-Soothsayers? I mean, I know I played this pretty badly, but I'm having trouble believing that what my opponent did is correct.
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Awaclus

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Re: What
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2014, 03:42:42 am »
+1

Colliding your opening buys on turn 5 is extremely bad no matter what they are.
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Re: What
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014, 04:09:28 am »
+10

Colliding your opening buys on turn 5 is extremely bad no matter what they are.

Edge case: Curse/Curse.
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Davio

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Re: What
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2014, 04:16:29 am »
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Hermit is correct, Spy is questionable.
But at least Spy is KC-able and Hermit will give you Silvers if you want them anyway.

And Madman makes it easier to KC something good.
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faust

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Re: What
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 07:12:48 am »
+4

Colliding your opening buys on turn 5 is extremely bad no matter what they are.

Edge case: Curse/Curse.

You're not doing it right. If oyu collide your opening buys Curse/Curse T5, your opening buys were Curse/Curse, and that's also extremely bad for you.

The real edge case of course is:

Board with Baker and Doctor. T1, use coin token, buy Doctor, overpay with 3, thrash 3 Estates. T2, have 5 Coppers, buy Bandit Camp. T3, have 2 Coppers, Doctor, (reshuffle) Bandit Camp, Copper. Play Bandit Camp, draw Copper, play Doctor, trash 3 Coppers, buy Masquerade. T4, draw Copper, (reshuffle) Spoils, Bandit Camp, 2 Coppers. Play Bandit Camp, draw Doctor, play Doctor, trash 1 Copper, buy Goons. T5, collide Bandit Camp/Doctor with Masquerade, Spoils, Goons. Play Bandit Camp, draw Copper, play Goons, play Masquerade, draw Copper, Copper, pass Doctor. Buy King's Court. That wasn't so bad, was it?
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Titandrake

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Re: What
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 02:44:35 pm »
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In retrospect, Hermit should be right. I'm not convinced on Spy, mostly because it can be swindled into Gardens and the risk doesn't seem to be worth the effect like it is for Soothsayer. However, Hermit into some KC-Swindler or KC-Soothsayer looks decent, plus Noble Brigand can destroy a standard BM deck.

You can't trash your Coppers, but you shouldn't need to very much here, only want to hit $8.
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soulnet

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Re: What
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2014, 04:09:35 pm »
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I do not like Soothsayer. Hermit can handle the Curses and the Brigand can steal Gold. You really want Harem and Bank because they are unstealable and they protect from NB handing out Coppers. I would spam Hermits, turn into madman for some big turn to pick up two Banks, and then buy Province/Harem/Hermit, and use Hermits to gain Silvers and trash Curses. If the opponent goes for Soothsayer, switch Hermits into Brigands at $4 and possibly Silver at $3 if you have too many terminals.

Seems like a weak but hard board, though, I am not too sure of anything.
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ponnuki

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Re: What
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2014, 06:03:50 pm »
+6

Colliding your opening buys on turn 5 is extremely bad no matter what they are.

Edge case: Curse/Curse.

You're not doing it right. If oyu collide your opening buys Curse/Curse T5, your opening buys were Curse/Curse, and that's also extremely bad for you.

The real edge case of course is:

Board with Baker and Doctor. T1, use coin token, buy Doctor, overpay with 3, thrash 3 Estates. T2, have 5 Coppers, buy Bandit Camp. T3, have 2 Coppers, Doctor, (reshuffle) Bandit Camp, Copper. Play Bandit Camp, draw Copper, play Doctor, trash 3 Coppers, buy Masquerade. T4, draw Copper, (reshuffle) Spoils, Bandit Camp, 2 Coppers. Play Bandit Camp, draw Doctor, play Doctor, trash 1 Copper, buy Goons. T5, collide Bandit Camp/Doctor with Masquerade, Spoils, Goons. Play Bandit Camp, draw Copper, play Goons, play Masquerade, draw Copper, Copper, pass Doctor. Buy King's Court. That wasn't so bad, was it?

As a simpler edge case: How about opening Treasure Map - Treasure Map on a Baker board? Little objection against Treasure Maps colliding whatever turn it is...
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Titandrake

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Re: What
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 08:44:37 pm »
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I do not like Soothsayer. Hermit can handle the Curses and the Brigand can steal Gold. You really want Harem and Bank because they are unstealable and they protect from NB handing out Coppers. I would spam Hermits, turn into madman for some big turn to pick up two Banks, and then buy Province/Harem/Hermit, and use Hermits to gain Silvers and trash Curses. If the opponent goes for Soothsayer, switch Hermits into Brigands at $4 and possibly Silver at $3 if you have too many terminals.

Seems like a weak but hard board, though, I am not too sure of anything.

I don't really like picking up that many Banks here. You only ever need to hit $8, or $6 if going for 6 VP Fairgrounds which is pretty doable on this board. Yes, Brigand steals Gold, so Brigand right back. This also makes your Gardens slightly better and their Gardens slightly weaker, when you don't hit the important cost points.

I actually like this board a lot, I'm not at all sure if what I just said is right, and you really have no margin for error on this setup.
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Davio

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Re: What
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2014, 05:09:56 am »
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First observation: The board seems sloggy. Hermit trashing is so-so and you're likely to get some delay from Swindlers.
Second observation: It will be hard to connect KC with anything if you're not playing a Madman or having a bunch of Spies.

Given those two observations, it seems doable to go for Faigrounds and Gardens.
What would the 15 Fairgrounds cards be? There are 17 cards total (18 if you cant Madman) so we can skip 2: Province (might not get to it) and Curse. If you get a Swindled or Soothsayer'd Curse, that's OK.

Because of Swindler, you have to keep good track of how many different cards you have. And because FG can only get to $6, it's a very good idea to get a Province instead if you can, for Swindler protection.

I would probably open Hermit/Swindler and be OK with collision (would likely play Hermit in that case).
From that point I would gain Silvers of Hermit and maybe trash it at an opportune time to get a big Madman turn.
Just start grabbing one of each card, maybe two copies for Swindler's sake.

The BM alternative seems weak enough to overcome with Fairgrounds and Garden points.
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LastFootnote

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Re: What
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2014, 11:19:42 am »
+4

And because FG can only get to $6, it's a very good idea to get a Province instead if you can, for Swindler protection.

I read this and thought, "How does Fool's Gold get to exactly $6?"
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Davio

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Re: What
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2014, 09:41:14 am »
+2

Obviously I meant that FG is never more expensive than $6.
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