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KingZog3

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Strange chat behaviour
« on: May 21, 2014, 07:20:43 pm »
+3

So I'm playing this game with some random guy, and I get into this situation.

I have a deck of roughly 20+cards, 2 of my 3 bishops collide and miss the shuffle, I trash a Rats to Bishop and then draw my 3rd Bishop. I thought it was unusual and a bit unlucky. I mentioned it in the chat, not complaining, just saying that it happened. And my opponent just couldn't understand why I bothered to say it. He said it wasn't interesting (I said that I mentioned it because it's unusual and interesting) and that if I always mention when I'm unlucky that people will think I'm a crybaby (his word). I told him I'm not complaining, merely stating that it happened, the same way I mentioned that in one game in a 50+card deck my 4 woodcutters came up in 1 hand. It's a fact and it's unusual so I mention it in the chat. It's conversation and since it's dominion related I thought maybe a dominion player might find it funny or something. Kind of ironically he inquired about the Ace of Spades in the "show more cards" button. What, am I supposed to find his comments interesting, but shut up about mine? I wasn't rude, I replied to his question explaining it's presence.

Is it really that unusual to chat to your opponent, or mention when something unlucky happens? I don't blame losses on luck. I would equally mention when my deck works out perfectly.
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Awaclus

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2014, 07:25:13 pm »
+1

There's nothing unusual about chatting about shuffle luck, though I wouldn't give my opponent any extra information about my hand.
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silverspawn

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2014, 07:49:27 pm »
+1

i've done a smiliar thing in the past. my opponent made a comment about his shuffles, and i happened to have lost a lot of points before the game so, uh, i kind of overreacted. later i apologized to him and no we're fine, but i can relate anyway.

that said, i (almost) never mention bad shuffles, unless i play with someone i know really well. i don't think it's bad manner, but I do think it's kind of whining.

liopoil

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2014, 08:06:30 pm »
+1

Sometimes when I realize I missed a tactical opportunity that would have been pretty cool I mention it in the chat. I feel like I shouldn't really do it (what's the point?). I almost think I'm sort of trying to take credit for doing something I didn't. Anyone else done this?
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Awaclus

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2014, 08:23:38 pm »
0

Sometimes when I realize I missed a tactical opportunity that would have been pretty cool I mention it in the chat. I feel like I shouldn't really do it (what's the point?). I almost think I'm sort of trying to take credit for doing something I didn't. Anyone else done this?
Mentioning it in the chat? Yes. Sometimes just for fun, but sometimes to explain that if I could have ended the game in a victory but didn't, it's because I suck at Dominion, not because I'm pulling a Still Had All Deez.
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KingZog3

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2014, 08:52:57 pm »
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There's nothing unusual about chatting about shuffle luck, though I wouldn't give my opponent any extra information about my hand.

I'm not concerned about the strategy of it. Yeah it's bad to tell him my 3 bishops collided, but that's not the point.

i've done a smiliar thing in the past. my opponent made a comment about his shuffles, and i happened to have lost a lot of points before the game so, uh, i kind of overreacted. later i apologized to him and no we're fine, but i can relate anyway.

that said, i (almost) never mention bad shuffles, unless i play with someone i know really well. i don't think it's bad manner, but I do think it's kind of whining.

He didn't overreact, he just didn't care at all. Instead of not responding he ask why it mattered. I explained it mattered because could affect the game, but despite this I wouldn't blame it if I lost. If I lose, he played better than me that's all.

I see how it can be interpreted as whining, that's fair I guess. But I explicitly told him I wasn't complaining about it, and that I just thought it something interesting worth mentioning. In the OP, and in the chat, I mentioned another game where I had a collision of every terminal in my deck in a 50+card deck. It probably lost me the game, its just not something you can take into account and I feel it worth mentioning. I mean, imagine playing IRL and not telling the person you're playing with that you just had every terminal in your deck in the same hand and no Villages. I was chatting with my opponent about the game we were playing. Is that wrong? Should I not try to be friendly? I always discuss in real life. I know the internet is faceless, but that should not mean chatting is whining or rude. Not to imply you mean it is, I don't think you think that.

Sometimes when I realize I missed a tactical opportunity that would have been pretty cool I mention it in the chat. I feel like I shouldn't really do it (what's the point?). I almost think I'm sort of trying to take credit for doing something I didn't. Anyone else done this?

Like I just said to silverspawn, you would mention the mistake IRL, why not online? The point is to have fun. Maybe you don't find discussion fun. Fine, don't reply. But I'll mention it because i enjoy talking to my opponents about the game. The most fun games are when theres  a steady chat going about the turns, the shuffles, how things are balancing out. And after the game discussion about alternatives can happen. It's fun.

Think of it like this. You're hanging out with some friends and you see something strange, like a man eating a sausage with his feet while wearing a balloon crown. Do you not say anything? I mean, there's no real point. You say nothing, everyone lives, has a good time, you go home end of story. Or you could say something, and I'm guessing you would. Why not ask the guy why he's doing it? Maybe he's crazy. Maybe he has a reason. Why play dominion? Just sit at home and do nothing. The point it to enjoy the game more, and I find discussion is a part of that. have you ever posted or commented on a game report here? It's the same thing, only at the moment the game is taking place.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 08:54:28 pm by KingZog3 »
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markusin

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2014, 09:14:20 pm »
+3

I see how it can be interpreted as whining, that's fair I guess. But I explicitly told him I wasn't complaining about it, and that I just thought it something interesting worth mentioning. In the OP, and in the chat, I mentioned another game where I had a collision of every terminal in my deck in a 50+card deck. It probably lost me the game, its just not something you can take into account and I feel it worth mentioning. I mean, imagine playing IRL and not telling the person you're playing with that you just had every terminal in your deck in the same hand and no Villages. I was chatting with my opponent about the game we were playing. Is that wrong? Should I not try to be friendly? I always discuss in real life. I know the internet is faceless, but that should not mean chatting is whining or rude. Not to imply you mean it is, I don't think you think that.
Do I have to quote Marshal McLuhan here?

The internet has a way of numbing you out and putting you in a state of empathy. When you're playing with your friends IRL, typically you got the mood started before the game even starts. You talk as you set up the cards or whatnot. The social instinct is stimulated. Similiarly online, if you begin chatting with your opponent from the very start of the game, maybe commenting on how crazy the kingdom is or complimenting each others avatars, then you'll both be in a good mood and more willing it chat.

On the other hand, if you're playing like faceless voiceless robots and suddenly you make a comment that can be interpreted as a complaint, the other player might feel like you're making the game even more meaningless that it already seems to be.
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silverspawn

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2014, 09:30:40 pm »
0

Quote
He didn't overreact, he just didn't care at all. Instead of not responding he ask why it mattered. I explained it mattered because could affect the game, but despite this I wouldn't blame it if I lost.
okay, i guess if he didn't answer out of frustration but rather to prove a point, it's not the same.

Quote
I see how it can be interpreted as whining, that's fair I guess. But I explicitly told him I wasn't complaining about it, and that I just thought it something interesting worth mentioning. In the OP, and in the chat, I mentioned another game where I had a collision of every terminal in my deck in a 50+card deck. It probably lost me the game, its just not something you can take into account and I feel it worth mentioning. I mean, imagine playing IRL and not telling the person you're playing with that you just had every terminal in your deck in the same hand and no Villages. I was chatting with my opponent about the game we were playing. Is that wrong? Should I not try to be friendly? I always discuss in real life. I know the internet is faceless, but that should not mean chatting is whining or rude. Not to imply you mean it is, I don't think you think that.

dunno, for me the essential thing is whether or not i'm friends with my opponent. if i am, mentioning that stuff is small talk, but if i'm not, it's whining. that's not set in stone though, it's just how it comes across to me. it very much depends on how you look at the game, if i don't know my opponent, i kinda sorta consider him an enemy for the duration of the game, which i guess is bad, but uh whatever. there is also another thing that, if you mention bad shufflles but end up winning the game anyway, it can come across as humiliating. I imagine you (and most people) don't have these sort of issues, but well I'm also the guy who cares if you write gg too early.

so, i don't think it's bm, but it will upset some people. whether that's enough of a reason not to do it depends on your judgement. it's enough for me.

Quote
If I lose, he played better than me that's all.
well i hope you were just refering to that one game, because if you mean every game, that's just not true.

Quote
Sometimes when I realize I missed a tactical opportunity that would have been pretty cool I mention it in the chat. I feel like I shouldn't really do it (what's the point?). I almost think I'm sort of trying to take credit for doing something I didn't. Anyone else done this?
yea, I do that sometimes. I try not to do it when i'm winning anyway, but if i lose I think that's fine. I don't feel like taking credit though, I think it's rather the opposite, you're admitting a mistake.

KingZog3

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2014, 09:31:48 pm »
0

I see how it can be interpreted as whining, that's fair I guess. But I explicitly told him I wasn't complaining about it, and that I just thought it something interesting worth mentioning. In the OP, and in the chat, I mentioned another game where I had a collision of every terminal in my deck in a 50+card deck. It probably lost me the game, its just not something you can take into account and I feel it worth mentioning. I mean, imagine playing IRL and not telling the person you're playing with that you just had every terminal in your deck in the same hand and no Villages. I was chatting with my opponent about the game we were playing. Is that wrong? Should I not try to be friendly? I always discuss in real life. I know the internet is faceless, but that should not mean chatting is whining or rude. Not to imply you mean it is, I don't think you think that.

The internet has a way of numbing you out and putting you in a state of empathy.


Do you mean apathy? As in not caring?
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Awaclus

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2014, 11:34:40 pm »
0

Quote
Sometimes when I realize I missed a tactical opportunity that would have been pretty cool I mention it in the chat. I feel like I shouldn't really do it (what's the point?). I almost think I'm sort of trying to take credit for doing something I didn't. Anyone else done this?
yea, I do that sometimes. I try not to do it when i'm winning anyway, but if i lose I think that's fine. I don't feel like taking credit though, I think it's rather the opposite, you're admitting a mistake.
I do it even if I'm winning sometimes (as long as it's not SHAD tier obvious that I'm going to win and that I just missed an opportunity to win more). Every lost game is an opportunity to learn and that way, my opponent can learn from my mistakes, too. Sometimes, all you learn in defeat is that you have been defeated, though, and I'll try to not rub it in your face when that happens.
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2014, 12:05:23 pm »
0

So I'm playing this game with some random guy, and I get into this situation.

I have a deck of roughly 20+cards, 2 of my 3 bishops collide and miss the shuffle, I trash a Rats to Bishop and then draw my 3rd Bishop. I thought it was unusual and a bit unlucky. I mentioned it in the chat, not complaining, just saying that it happened. And my opponent just couldn't understand why I bothered to say it. He said it wasn't interesting (I said that I mentioned it because it's unusual and interesting) and that if I always mention when I'm unlucky that people will think I'm a crybaby (his word). I told him I'm not complaining, merely stating that it happened, the same way I mentioned that in one game in a 50+card deck my 4 woodcutters came up in 1 hand. It's a fact and it's unusual so I mention it in the chat. It's conversation and since it's dominion related I thought maybe a dominion player might find it funny or something. Kind of ironically he inquired about the Ace of Spades in the "show more cards" button. What, am I supposed to find his comments interesting, but shut up about mine? I wasn't rude, I replied to his question explaining it's presence.

Is it really that unusual to chat to your opponent, or mention when something unlucky happens? I don't blame losses on luck. I would equally mention when my deck works out perfectly.

I'm curious whether this is the same guy who tried to slow-roll me and told me to kill myself in response to a chat about strange shuffles (I just got some work done while he yelled a lot in the chat), then went off on DSC in the lobby chat five minutes later.

Unfortunately I don't remember his name offhand. But if there's a general point to be made here, it's that some people are just going to take everything in bad faith and you can't base your interactions with everyone off those people.

I personally do a lot of chatting about luck in either direction (whether I'm hitting great hands or terrible ones, or if my opponent is obviously getting deck-screwed), and usually it goes over okay. Every once in awhile someone goes off about my "whining" (or worse, yells at me for being a lucksack despite being 1500 points below me on the leaderboard). In these cases, for the most part, c'est la vie.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 12:06:33 pm by Stealth Tomato »
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markusin

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2014, 12:45:32 pm »
0

I see how it can be interpreted as whining, that's fair I guess. But I explicitly told him I wasn't complaining about it, and that I just thought it something interesting worth mentioning. In the OP, and in the chat, I mentioned another game where I had a collision of every terminal in my deck in a 50+card deck. It probably lost me the game, its just not something you can take into account and I feel it worth mentioning. I mean, imagine playing IRL and not telling the person you're playing with that you just had every terminal in your deck in the same hand and no Villages. I was chatting with my opponent about the game we were playing. Is that wrong? Should I not try to be friendly? I always discuss in real life. I know the internet is faceless, but that should not mean chatting is whining or rude. Not to imply you mean it is, I don't think you think that.

The internet has a way of numbing you out and putting you in a state of empathy.


Do you mean apathy? As in not caring?
I meant apathy, yeah. Wow, that's beyond typo.

But it's not so much apathy as a drained feeling, like your computer is sucking the life force out of you.
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markusin

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2014, 12:49:46 pm »
0

So I'm playing this game with some random guy, and I get into this situation.

I have a deck of roughly 20+cards, 2 of my 3 bishops collide and miss the shuffle, I trash a Rats to Bishop and then draw my 3rd Bishop. I thought it was unusual and a bit unlucky. I mentioned it in the chat, not complaining, just saying that it happened. And my opponent just couldn't understand why I bothered to say it. He said it wasn't interesting (I said that I mentioned it because it's unusual and interesting) and that if I always mention when I'm unlucky that people will think I'm a crybaby (his word). I told him I'm not complaining, merely stating that it happened, the same way I mentioned that in one game in a 50+card deck my 4 woodcutters came up in 1 hand. It's a fact and it's unusual so I mention it in the chat. It's conversation and since it's dominion related I thought maybe a dominion player might find it funny or something. Kind of ironically he inquired about the Ace of Spades in the "show more cards" button. What, am I supposed to find his comments interesting, but shut up about mine? I wasn't rude, I replied to his question explaining it's presence.

Is it really that unusual to chat to your opponent, or mention when something unlucky happens? I don't blame losses on luck. I would equally mention when my deck works out perfectly.

I'm curious whether this is the same guy who tried to slow-roll me and told me to kill myself in response to a chat about strange shuffles (I just got some work done while he yelled a lot in the chat), then went off on DSC in the lobby chat five minutes later.

Unfortunately I don't remember his name offhand. But if there's a general point to be made here, it's that some people are just going to take everything in bad faith and you can't base your interactions with everyone off those people.

I personally do a lot of chatting about luck in either direction (whether I'm hitting great hands or terrible ones, or if my opponent is obviously getting deck-screwed), and usually it goes over okay. Every once in awhile someone goes off about my "whining" (or worse, yells at me for being a lucksack despite being 1500 points below me on the leaderboard). In these cases, for the most part, c'est la vie.
I've encountered people that get upset in the chat based on my luck without me ever saying anything. I guess that makes them the whiners? Whatever, the last player to do that to me just resigned, so I don't count it as BM.
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Lekkit

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2014, 12:56:37 pm »
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I think chatting about stuff like that is totally acceptable. I don't always do it myself, since I mostly play at work, and I prefer to keep the pace up instead of chatting. And from what I've noticed, my opponents does too.

I know it's kind of a language thing as well, but I think there's a difference between someone saying "The Sea Hag discarding is killing me here. :S", "Sea Hag hit by Sea Hag. gg" and "I can't beat that shuffle luck.".
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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2014, 03:59:09 pm »
+2

I will resign games that I lose due to luck of the draw. 

Take a recent Chapel/Witch game I played.  Fortuitously we both opened $5/$2, but then he proceeded to not collide Witch/Chapel and hit $5 for a Festival.  I collide a few times, hit $4 instead of $5.  Lacking Festival meant it was a constant choice of trashing or playing Witch.  Eventually I am just so far behind with no hope to catch up as he can both play Festival and trash any Curse I gave him.  So rather than say, "gg, lucky $5 when I got $4" I just said, "gg, I can't come back at this point."

To some it may seem similar but to me it's more about recognizing and accepting that you got unlucky as opposed to whining and complaining that you got unlucky.  I could have stayed and finished that game but it would have been a pointless use of 5-10 minutes that it would have taken to finish an already decided game.
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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2014, 04:28:53 pm »
+2

There's nothing unusual about chatting about shuffle luck, though I wouldn't give my opponent any extra information about my hand.

I'm not concerned about the strategy of it. Yeah it's bad to tell him my 3 bishops collided, but that's not the point.

i've done a smiliar thing in the past. my opponent made a comment about his shuffles, and i happened to have lost a lot of points before the game so, uh, i kind of overreacted. later i apologized to him and no we're fine, but i can relate anyway.

that said, i (almost) never mention bad shuffles, unless i play with someone i know really well. i don't think it's bad manner, but I do think it's kind of whining.

He didn't overreact, he just didn't care at all. Instead of not responding he ask why it mattered. I explained it mattered because could affect the game, but despite this I wouldn't blame it if I lost. If I lose, he played better than me that's all.

I see how it can be interpreted as whining, that's fair I guess. But I explicitly told him I wasn't complaining about it, and that I just thought it something interesting worth mentioning. In the OP, and in the chat, I mentioned another game where I had a collision of every terminal in my deck in a 50+card deck. It probably lost me the game, its just not something you can take into account and I feel it worth mentioning. I mean, imagine playing IRL and not telling the person you're playing with that you just had every terminal in your deck in the same hand and no Villages. I was chatting with my opponent about the game we were playing. Is that wrong? Should I not try to be friendly? I always discuss in real life. I know the internet is faceless, but that should not mean chatting is whining or rude. Not to imply you mean it is, I don't think you think that.

Sometimes when I realize I missed a tactical opportunity that would have been pretty cool I mention it in the chat. I feel like I shouldn't really do it (what's the point?). I almost think I'm sort of trying to take credit for doing something I didn't. Anyone else done this?

Like I just said to silverspawn, you would mention the mistake IRL, why not online? The point is to have fun. Maybe you don't find discussion fun. Fine, don't reply. But I'll mention it because i enjoy talking to my opponents about the game. The most fun games are when theres  a steady chat going about the turns, the shuffles, how things are balancing out. And after the game discussion about alternatives can happen. It's fun.

Think of it like this. You're hanging out with some friends and you see something strange, like a man eating a sausage with his feet while wearing a balloon crown. Do you not say anything? I mean, there's no real point. You say nothing, everyone lives, has a good time, you go home end of story. Or you could say something, and I'm guessing you would. Why not ask the guy why he's doing it? Maybe he's crazy. Maybe he has a reason. Why play dominion? Just sit at home and do nothing. The point it to enjoy the game more, and I find discussion is a part of that. have you ever posted or commented on a game report here? It's the same thing, only at the moment the game is taking place.

I don't get it. Someone on the internet was rude. Is that interesting? Does it matter? Why should we care? Are you just whining?
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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2014, 04:30:34 pm »
0

As someone who doesn't like to give up I hardly ever resign. But I understand why other people do it. But, I've seen people resign way to early sometimes. Which I think is kind of degrading yourself. But I'm not offended by it.
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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2014, 05:01:27 pm »
+1

If you engage in enough social interactions you're bound to encounter people who just respond totally weird and apparently random, regardless of how you yourself behave. Just accept that and move on. Only question your own behavior if you get the same undesirable response with maddening consistency, e.g. if you daily walk the streets greeting passengers with the finger, expecting a friendly head-nod in return but receiving instead a mixture of frowns, mumbled expletives and verbal threats, that's when it might be appropriate to do some soul-searching.
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KingZog3

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2014, 11:15:04 pm »
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If you engage in enough social interactions you're bound to encounter people who just respond totally weird and apparently random, regardless of how you yourself behave. Just accept that and move on. Only question your own behavior if you get the same undesirable response with maddening consistency, e.g. if you daily walk the streets greeting passengers with the finger, expecting a friendly head-nod in return but receiving instead a mixture of frowns, mumbled expletives and verbal threats, that's when it might be appropriate to do some soul-searching.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not changing my ways here. I just wondered maybe someone else has gotten people bewildered by apparently normal behaviour. I think I was in a rant-y mood when I wrote the long posts here :P
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2014, 11:18:39 pm »
+1

I'm not just "some random guy", brah. I thought we were closer than that.
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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2014, 11:45:37 pm »
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I'm not just "some random guy", brah. I thought we were closer than that.

Brah, if I were talking about you I would make sure you knew that you sucked. But alas it's not you.
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Kirian

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Re: Strange chat behaviour
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2014, 11:48:39 pm »
+5

Think of it like this. You're hanging out with some friends and you see something strange, like a man eating a sausage with his feet while wearing a balloon crown. Do you not say anything?

It depends.  Is he also walking and/or feeding a blue dog?
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Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.
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