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Author Topic: New take on 'get money, gain a curse'  (Read 945 times)

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Marcory

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New take on 'get money, gain a curse'
« on: May 16, 2014, 10:43:44 am »
+1

The usual critique of this type of card is that it is overpowered once the curses are out. Even if it's 'Gain a curse, if you do . . . ', it can be OP if you can easily get rid of the curse. If it has negative VP, it can be OP if you can trash it near the end of the game or give it to your opponent via Ambassador/Masquerade.

But what about this:

Loanshark Reaction $6
(-5) VP

When you gain this, place it on your Loanshark mat. If you do, gain 3 Golds. Return all  Loansharks on your mat to your deck at the end of the game.
             
While this is set aside, during your Action phase, you may place any number of Golds on your Loanshark mat. If there are 4 Golds on the mat, return them and one Loanshark to the supply, and gain a Province.



So, this card gives you -5 VP and can't be trashed, Ambassadored, Masqueraded, or Trader-ed. The bonus for paying back the loan is good enough that you'll consider doing it over just buying a Province with your Gold. Plus, at $6, you can't open with it, barring Baker.

Would anyone buy this card over straight-up Gold? Is it OP?


« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 10:48:07 am by Marcory »
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LastFootnote

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Re: New take on 'get money, gain a curse'
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 10:56:18 am »
0

I think it's a cool idea, but the text needs to be trimmed. I think that like Island, the card doesn't need to specifically reference a mat. Nor does it need to specify that it returns to your deck when the game ends, since all set-aside cards do. Also, "during your Action phase" is not an acceptable trigger. Can I resolve it in the middle of another Action? Here's my attempt at editing it.

Quote
Loanshark
Types: Victory
Cost: $6
Worth 5 VP.

When you gain this, set it aside and gain 3 Golds.
While this is set aside, at the start of your Buy phase, set aside any number of Golds from your hand onto it. If there are 4 Golds set aside on it, trash this and the Golds and gain a Province.

Notice that it is also a Victory card instead of a Reaction since it gives (negative) Victory points and doesn't actually react to anything. In addition, I can't see a good reason for the cards to be returned to the Supply instead of trashed. There are enough Golds that it's not a big deal if they go back and I don't think limiting this effect to 10 times per game is unreasonable.

I think this would actually be more interesting with Silvers instead of Golds (and probably a lower cost and a lower negative VP value).
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 10:57:38 am by LastFootnote »
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Awaclus

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Re: New take on 'get money, gain a curse'
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 11:03:34 am »
0

How does the "during <x>, you may <y>" effect work? Can I, for example, play Herald, and set the Golds aside when I see that the Herald is making me play a Remake? Can I play Warehouse, draw three Golds, set them aside and discard nothing? Can I set aside any Golds that I draw while I'm drawing until I have 6 cards in hand with Watchtower? Can I set aside a Gold while I'm revealing cards with Hunting Party to affect which cards are not duplicates of ones in my hand?

I suggest making it "at the start of your buy phase" instead.
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Marcory

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Re: New take on 'get money, gain a curse'
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 11:48:14 am »
0

I like LastFootnote's suggestions and agree with Awaclus about the buy phase.

It might work with Silvers, but there's so many other Silver gainers; this would get lost in the shuffle with Trader, JOAT, Masterpiece, etc. Once you have 3-4 Feodums, a Silver-gaining Loanshark would be a net positive even if you didn't repay the loan. I also wanted it not to come too early; lots of players might open with a hypothetical 'Negative Province, Gain 3 Golds', but this one comes when you have your first opportunity to get Gold.

One possibility might be to have it hurt less and give a Platinum that must be repaid with 2-3 Golds. But in any case, the all-or-nothing repayment plan (as opposed to incrementally returning Curse tokens) is key to the card, both play-wise and thematically.

The 'return this to your deck at the end of the game' text occurs on Island and Native Village, so I figured that it would be necessary here.

I don't have time to test this or create a set, but if you like it, LF, feel free to use it if there's room in your sets.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 04:21:04 pm by Marcory »
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GendoIkari

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Re: New take on 'get money, gain a curse'
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2014, 11:44:49 pm »
0

There's one issue of curse-money that this card doesn't address, and that's that 5 vp could either be a lot, or almost nothing, depending on the rest of the board. In a Goons game, I'm planning to win by a few dozen vp... The 5 vp isn't going to hurt there at all.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: New take on 'get money, gain a curse'
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2014, 11:56:27 pm »
+1

There's one issue of curse-money that this card doesn't address, and that's that 5 vp could either be a lot, or almost nothing, depending on the rest of the board. In a Goons game, I'm planning to win by a few dozen vp... The 5 vp isn't going to hurt there at all.

This is true of every card that deals with VP...Monument points, Goons points, Bishop points, Curses, and alt VP can all vary in significance depending on the rest of the board.  I don't think this card is any different from those (in that regard).  Part of the point of Dominion is to have things change depending on the rest of the cards in the kingdom; the value of -5 VP is one way that Loanshark has its power vary depending on the rest of the kingdom.
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