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Author Topic: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists and Winner  (Read 37215 times)

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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2014, 01:29:57 pm »
0

Unfortunately, I can't access the videos from the links on the OP. Anyone else having trouble with it?

The links for Adam's match still work. Not sure why AI vs. JOG match doesn't work. Maybe twitch deleted the videos? I'll see if AI put the videos on youtube and change the links today if I can.
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ragingduckd

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2014, 01:35:42 pm »
+1

Unfortunately, I can't access the videos from the links on the OP. Anyone else having trouble with it?

The links for Adam's match still work. Not sure why AI vs. JOG match doesn't work. Maybe twitch deleted the videos? I'll see if AI put the videos on youtube and change the links today if I can.

I don't know why the videos disappeared from twitch, but here are the youtube versions:
GokoDom III Finals Playlist - AI vs JOG

Games 1, 2, and 5 have some post-game commentary that JOG and I did over Skype.  Games 9 and 10 have the live commentary by SCSN and Mic Qsenoch.  Games 1-8 include the chat from the twitch channel watchers, but it's a bit out of sync for games 7 and 8.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 01:38:58 pm by ragingduckd »
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Awaclus

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2014, 01:41:32 pm »
0

I don't know why the videos disappeared from twitch
Maybe it has something to do with this?

I found out that I could just save it myself by selecting "save forever" under the video. Apparently videos that you just archive will get deleted after a week or so unless you deliberately save them.
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Joseph2302

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2014, 01:42:57 pm »
0

Unfortunately, I can't access the videos from the links on the OP. Anyone else having trouble with it?

The links for Adam's match still work. Not sure why AI vs. JOG match doesn't work. Maybe twitch deleted the videos? I'll see if AI put the videos on youtube and change the links today if I can.

I don't know why the videos disappeared from twitch, but here are the youtube versions:
GokoDom III Finals Playlist - AI vs JOG


Videos on Twitch seem to get automatically deleted after about a week, unless you explicitly choose to save them forever (it's an option on the page where you can edit the video).
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2014, 01:45:05 pm »
0

Unfortunately, I can't access the videos from the links on the OP. Anyone else having trouble with it?

The links for Adam's match still work. Not sure why AI vs. JOG match doesn't work. Maybe twitch deleted the videos? I'll see if AI put the videos on youtube and change the links today if I can.

I don't know why the videos disappeared from twitch, but here are the youtube versions:
GokoDom III Finals Playlist - AI vs JOG

Games 1, 2, and 5 have some post-game commentary that JOG and I did over Skype.  Games 9 and 10 have the live commentary by SCSN and Mic Qsenoch.  Games 1-8 include the chat from the twitch channel watchers, but it's a bit out of sync for games 7 and 8.

On the Youtube playlist, it looks like game 2 is private.
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ragingduckd

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #55 on: May 25, 2014, 01:49:30 pm »
+1

Unfortunately, I can't access the videos from the links on the OP. Anyone else having trouble with it?

The links for Adam's match still work. Not sure why AI vs. JOG match doesn't work. Maybe twitch deleted the videos? I'll see if AI put the videos on youtube and change the links today if I can.

I don't know why the videos disappeared from twitch, but here are the youtube versions:
GokoDom III Finals Playlist - AI vs JOG

Games 1, 2, and 5 have some post-game commentary that JOG and I did over Skype.  Games 9 and 10 have the live commentary by SCSN and Mic Qsenoch.  Games 1-8 include the chat from the twitch channel watchers, but it's a bit out of sync for games 7 and 8.

On the Youtube playlist, it looks like game 2 is private.

Fixed.
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2014, 01:53:05 pm »
+2

Video links in OP updated. Let me know if there are any more problems.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 01:57:12 pm by Polk5440 »
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Warrior

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2014, 04:01:12 pm »
0

Thanks all!
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c4master

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2014, 09:52:58 am »
0

Unfortunately, I can't access the videos from the links on the OP. Anyone else having trouble with it?

The links for Adam's match still work. Not sure why AI vs. JOG match doesn't work. Maybe twitch deleted the videos? I'll see if AI put the videos on youtube and change the links today if I can.

I don't know why the videos disappeared from twitch, but here are the youtube versions:
GokoDom III Finals Playlist - AI vs JOG

Games 1, 2, and 5 have some post-game commentary that JOG and I did over Skype.  Games 9 and 10 have the live commentary by SCSN and Mic Qsenoch.  Games 1-8 include the chat from the twitch channel watchers, but it's a bit out of sync for games 7 and 8.

That's great. Thank you :)
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2014, 07:34:05 am »
0

OP edited to include the for fun games that were played by AdamH, michaeljb, and MarkowKette to finish out the kingdoms that Adam and Michael did not get to during their third place match.

If you haven't voted yet, note that voting closes May 29th (tomorrow!).
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liopoil

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2014, 07:37:27 am »
0

why'd you reveal the votes early?

...looks like Stef will almost certainly win. Congrats stef!
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2014, 07:42:08 am »
0

why'd you reveal the votes early?

...looks like Stef will almost certainly win. Congrats stef!

I certainly didn't mean to. I was trying to extend the deadline. For some reason when I hit edit poll, the option to reveal was greyed out and the option to show votes was checked. When I hit save, it revealed the votes. I can't undo it, either. Sorry about that.
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soulnet

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2014, 08:31:18 am »
+3

Seeing the votes, it seems to me that mostly they went to "tactical" boards as opposed to "divergent strategies" boards.

Maybe tactical boards are much more impressive to watch on video? They certainly were for me, to some extent, but I had considered my vote previous to watching the videos. Boards with more than two strategies, or with too much possibilities for a couple of games, will never get a fair display on a couple of recorded games while the intricacies of tactics stand out.

Just some afterthought. Please do not take this as a complaint.

As a counterpoint, having videos and commented videos and all kinds of input from the judges gave an exciting context to the competition. Thank you for all the hard work!

EDIT: I want to expand, because congratulations are not deep enough. It seems to me that the selection process was really well done, as reflected by all the material the judge's produced. The result had a wide range of boards.

I think the point at the beginning of my post was that it would have been nice to see the same spread in "types" of boards that we got from the selection in the voting results.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 08:36:33 am by soulnet »
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ragingduckd

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2014, 03:18:39 pm »
+1

Seeing the votes, it seems to me that mostly they went to "tactical" boards as opposed to "divergent strategies" boards.

...

I think the point at the beginning of my post was that it would have been nice to see the same spread in "types" of boards that we got from the selection in the voting results.

I'll echo this.  I really enjoyed playing all of the boards, but the ones I found most interesting were the ones with several viable-looking strategies.  They were the most educational for me too, as I managed to choose the wrong strategy in quite a few of them!
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Awaclus

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2014, 03:31:18 pm »
+2

I'm surprised that kingdom #9 doesn't have more votes. Clearly the most interesting board to me, it's difficult to play both tactically and strategically.
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liopoil

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2014, 03:32:26 pm »
+1

I think many of the kingdoms that got votes have multiple good strategies, especially kingdom 4.

What I was thinking about was replayability. Having multiple viable strategies provides replayability. Having tactics provides replayability. In Dominion, we don't generally play kingdoms multiple times too often, but seeing as this is a Kingdom Design contest it's a bit different. It's sort of like game design, with the template for the game provided, just choosing the details of the game (what cards are used).
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soulnet

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2014, 03:50:20 pm »
0

I think many of the kingdoms that got votes have multiple good strategies, especially kingdom 4.

All kingdoms got votes :).

My point was mostly about kingdoms #5 and #8 (1st and 3rd place resp. at the time of this post, 1st and 2nd at the time of my original post) have some parts more or less clear (with several tactical considerations). For instance, it is clear you want CH and WT, respectively. I am not saying they are easier than the others or anything, just that the strategy is a bit more clear and the tactics are the main focus. Compare to, for instance, kingdom #9, which, for me at least, is a complete enigma from the go.

Compare with #9, for instance.
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liopoil

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2014, 04:14:39 pm »
+3

I think many of the kingdoms that got votes have multiple good strategies, especially kingdom 4.

All kingdoms got votes :).

My point was mostly about kingdoms #5 and #8 (1st and 3rd place resp. at the time of this post, 1st and 2nd at the time of my original post) have some parts more or less clear (with several tactical considerations). For instance, it is clear you want CH and WT, respectively. I am not saying they are easier than the others or anything, just that the strategy is a bit more clear and the tactics are the main focus. Compare to, for instance, kingdom #9, which, for me at least, is a complete enigma from the go.

Compare with #9, for instance.
Yeah, sorry, as you could tell I meant Kingdoms which got more votes that others.

Kingdom 5 had divergent strategies, in that JOG went for mountebank. But in a game that is played correctly it will be an exact mirror. Kingdom 8 the only divergent strategy is more like tactics, or route to build. e.g., opening with rats, and minion vs. catacombs, whether to pick up tunnel or not, etc. So yes, those are more tactical kingdoms. (By the way, it's possible to end the game on turn 5 in kingdom 8 in a solitaire game with perfect shuffle luck.)

What's the enigma with kingdom 9? Is is not just an engine with essentially ALL the cards? That one also strikes me as a tactical kingdom. There are definitely lots of choices with buy order and witch and stuff of course, but I count that as tactics.

Anyway, I think that Kingdom 4 has the most and the best balanced divergent strategies, so it makes sense it got all of those votes. But in general I agree, having multiple viable strategies is a plus for a kingdom that should have been valued more highly.
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markusin

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2014, 04:34:13 pm »
0

I'm surprised that kingdom #9 doesn't have more votes. Clearly the most interesting board to me, it's difficult to play both tactically and strategically.
Eh, only 3 kingdoms got more votes than it. Not bad for an honourable mention. Also take into account the anticlimactic end to that kingdom's game in the finals.

Edit: Yeah as liopoli said kingdom #9 had all the parts for an engine, but the question is how much can you supercharge your deck with engine parts and procession plays without it disintegrating. The Witch can actually serve to stabilize things a bit. I'm surprised it's being considered as the "WTF Trippy" kingdom of the bunch.

I personally voted for Kingdom #4. There seems to be multiple balanced strategies on that board that look rather fun to play.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 04:43:54 pm by markusin »
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MarkowKette

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2014, 05:02:18 pm »
0

i really like kingdom 8 i played it 3 times and it never played out the same way. If you build the 3pile threat the right way you can force somone who wants go for bishops to pick up green cards around turn 10-11 aswell so he can never get to a golden deck. The only thing i dont see a good way around is Watchtower/Rats which provides huge benefit in any way.
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liopoil

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2014, 05:10:03 pm »
0

i really like kingdom 8 i played it 3 times and it never played out the same way. If you build the 3pile threat the right way you can force somone who wants go for bishops to pick up green cards around turn 10-11 aswell so he can never get to a golden deck. The only thing i dont see a good way around is Watchtower/Rats which provides huge benefit in any way.
I've only played my kingdom once, against SCSN. I went for storeroom and tunnel at one point, whereas he went for minion. (after we both went watchtower/rats/fortress of course). I personally don't like minion most of the time, but it depends on your shuffle luck. He won, but I also think he had a little bit better luck and I made some mistakes too, so I'm still not convinced minion is better, although it might be. I also don't think bishop is necessary early, not until turn 7-9 or something like that. But you do need points for sure, because piles will run FAST. What do you think of minion vs. storeroom/tunnel?

I'd be happy to play it again with anyone who has cards (I don't).
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists and Winner
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2014, 07:14:38 pm »
+11

Congratulations to Stef, the designer of kingdom #5, and the winner of the 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge!

This is a well-deserved win against quality finalists who approached the design challenge in different ways.

Stef put together a great kingdom that has something for every level of Dominion player. While the kingdom first appears to be a Mountebank-Gardens game, there is a crazy Counting House-Storeroom based engine for the experts to find. You have to turn engine building rules on their head: Coppers are good. The goal is to draw your discard pile. Trigger the reshuffle so there is a bunch of junk in my deck? Yes, please! And what a spectacle to pull off.

Even though the crazy engine seems to be a dominant strategy among the very best players, it is really difficult to find and execute correctly. That gives the kingdom added replayability.

The kingdom has a lot of tactical subpoints, and in addition, the kingdom also scales well; it would still be entertaining to play with three or four players. A very intersting, fun kingdom!

----------

All in all, this turned out to be a great contest with lots of strong entries. Even though we had half as many entries as last year, the entries were of high quality.

Thanks to everyone who participated!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 07:28:31 pm by Polk5440 »
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MarkowKette

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists and Winner
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2014, 07:29:36 pm »
+6

Congratulations Stef!

And a thousand thanks to to Polk, greatexpectations, Mic, Shark_bait and everyone else who
worked hard to make this contest possible.
Thanks for submitting wonderful kingdoms, judging and playtesting
and organization of the Kindoms for the finals.
Thanks to Adam, Andrew, Michael and JOG, Mic and SCSN for playing cool games on the finalists and commenting
and streaming!

I'm a bit sad that only 39 people voted when there are more then 100 members active in the forum every day.

I really enjoyed this contest and hope we will see another one next year maybe.



« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 09:00:18 pm by MarkowKette »
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SCSN

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2014, 04:23:46 am »
0

i really like kingdom 8 i played it 3 times and it never played out the same way. If you build the 3pile threat the right way you can force somone who wants go for bishops to pick up green cards around turn 10-11 aswell so he can never get to a golden deck. The only thing i dont see a good way around is Watchtower/Rats which provides huge benefit in any way.
I've only played my kingdom once, against SCSN. I went for storeroom and tunnel at one point, whereas he went for minion. (after we both went watchtower/rats/fortress of course). I personally don't like minion most of the time, but it depends on your shuffle luck. He won, but I also think he had a little bit better luck and I made some mistakes too, so I'm still not convinced minion is better, although it might be. I also don't think bishop is necessary early, not until turn 7-9 or something like that. But you do need points for sure, because piles will run FAST. What do you think of minion vs. storeroom/tunnel?

I'd be happy to play it again with anyone who has cards (I don't).

I don't think Minion is in any way vital to what I did. It just makes the deck more reliable. What is key though is Bishop-Fortress (or Bishopping Rats if you have too much of them), and I think ignoring Bishop will just always lose against a player who doesn't. Storeroom-Tunnel is just terrible, both here and on all but the weakest of boards.
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c4master

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists and Winner
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2014, 05:14:44 am »
0

Congratulations, Stef.

It was really fun to watch the games on your kingdom. :)
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