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Author Topic: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists and Winner  (Read 37216 times)

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liopoil

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2014, 07:59:03 pm »
+1

interestingly, the card that appeared the most in the final kingdoms was storeroom, at 4 appearances   

Also, I encourage everyone to refrain from voting until after the 3rd place match
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2014, 08:24:49 pm »
0

Also, I encourage everyone to refrain from voting until after the 3rd place match

Remember you can change your vote at any time. So if the third place match changes your mind, feel free to change your vote!

I'll also be posting our test logs tonight or tomorrow. In a few cases we played the kingdoms quite differently.
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Awaclus

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2014, 08:28:19 pm »
0

Cards that were not used: Envoy, Navigator, Remodel, and Stash.     
Are you forgetting one or was the number that GE gave earlier wrong?

I got Envoy and Navigator correct, Stash isn't too surprising but Remodel is. Maybe the variants are just that much more interesting then.

EDIT: No, actually it seems that I didn't get Envoy correct. Weird, now I'm not sure if I accidentally typed Walled Village back then or misremember now.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 08:30:13 pm by Awaclus »
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ragingduckd

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2014, 08:29:36 pm »
+2

Pictures would help.
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2014, 08:30:37 pm »
0

Cards that were not used: Envoy, Navigator, Remodel, and Stash.     
Are you forgetting one or was the number that GE gave earlier wrong?

I got Envoy and Navigator correct, Stash isn't too surprising but Remodel is. Maybe the variants are just that much more interesting then.

I think GE counted Spoils.

Regarding Remodel: I think everyone was enamored with Butcher this time around. Remodel wasn't hip enough.
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Awaclus

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2014, 08:31:53 pm »
+3

Pictures would help.
Here's a picture:



Did it help?
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2014, 08:32:20 pm »
0

Pictures would help.

Oh, right. Will add to OP.
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greatexpectations

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2014, 08:35:35 pm »
0

I think GE counted Spoils.

yup, my bad there. i updated the spreadsheet accordingly.
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greatexpectations

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2014, 08:37:51 pm »
+2

Polk has done a fantastic job of summing things up, but I figured I should throw in some comments for the spreadsheet.
  • Unfortunately, the public spreadsheet is not easily editable or sortable as is. There was data in the spreadsheet that we did not want shared as well as a lot of data and formulas extraneous for the average forum member. It would have been a bit of work to clean up the spreadsheet to be presentable so we will start off sharing this. If there is a strong desire for the full spreadsheet I can provide it, but it might take some time to get back to you. Beyond that, I will try my best to meet any requests for more detailed/additional information.
  • There are sheets dedicated to all entries (full detailed and simple versions), the candidates we playtested, and the kingdoms chosen for the finals. The sheets contain submitter comments and the Y/M/N votes or playtest comments from the reviewers. Columns to the far right of the sheet contain automated data based on the expansions required and types of cards/combos present.
  • The card frequency stats should be self explanatory but the other stats might be a little more confusing. The 'Total' column sums all of the appearances of that requirement, while 'Distinct' looks only at separate kingdoms featuring the requirment. EG a kingdom with 5 Seaside cards adds 5 to the 'Total' column but only 1 to the 'Distinct' column. The 'Distinct' figure is also listed as a percentage of all entries to give an idea of how often that subset occurred. Card types are typically based on definitions and inclusions on the Wiki. Combinations are just boolean comparisons of these card types to give a feel for how the kingdom might play out.
  • To get into the stats a little bit, the majority of submissions leaned towards strong engines or alt-VP and I think the numbers bear that out. 93% of kingdoms offered some form of +Action and 87% offered +Buy while 72% contained either VP chips or alt-VP cards.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 09:22:14 pm by greatexpectations »
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liopoil

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2014, 09:36:52 pm »
+6

So, I guess I'll make my pitch for why my kingdom is the best because I want Intrigue:

My kingdom was Kingdom number 8. log: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140515/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1400216455245.txt, and kingdom: Stonemason,Tunnel,Storeroom,Watchtower,Rats,Bishop,Fortress,Catacombs,Minion,Hunting Grounds

I don't remember making it that well, but I'm not surprised that I did. Watchtower is probably my favorite card, rats is up there too, and the rest of the cards make the kingdom cool, and also make the best opening on 4/3 rats/watchtower. Plus, cool interactions. People commented about it being similar to the empty the supply kingdoms and such, which is certainly is. Anyway, here's what I said about my kingdom when I made it:

Quote
Bishop-Fortress will likely be the best strategy, but an early 3-pile is a big threat, and there are lots of tactics regarding that. Tunnel and Hunting Grounds provide ways to get some points to get ahead and end the game. This will be a very fast, tactical game. There are a lot of ways to approach this kingdom, though the general idea is pretty similar - a very thin, action heavy deck with bishop. There are more than 3 piles that have the potential to empty. There are other ideas with storeroom/tunnel/minion, but they will likely be too slow. Should be interesting.

I pretty much still agree with all of this. I didn't playtest this kingdom, by the way. Now that I've thought about it more and have watched a game, I have more to say. I'm surprised that both players ignored bishop, and that AI went minion. I feel like minion will be very situational, and you only ever want 1, maybe 2, but not 3. Minion was the card I added to the kingdom last. Minion worked out for AI because 1: he got fairly good shuffle luck, but more importantly 2: almost anything he does wins, because JOG didn't open rats! Rats is key here. It is a must open, except on 5/2. You need to thin ASAP, and you need rats for fuel for watchtower, bishop, and potentially stonemason. I expect that the optimal strategy is to open rats/watchtower, build up on lots of fortresses, get a bishop, a second watchtower, and hopefully in the process pick up a stonemason by overpaying for it. The game will be very very fast (the final lasted 10 turns, and it has the potential to be even faster I think!). The key will be striking a balance between getting points and endgame control. You have to make sure each turn that your opponent can't win on their next turn, but you also have to make sure that you don't get points too early. Theoretically, I think if both players play well, the game will actually avoid the three-pile for a while, because they will stop buying engine pieces and focus on bishoping. It could even reach a sort of stalemate state, which I think would be really sweet. In this kingdom, buy order is important (open rats!), but that's true in any kingdom. The choices during your action phase are especially key in this kingdom, because really, that's where most of the gaining happens.

But what about storeroom, tunnel, catacombs, minion, and hunting grounds? These are the situational cards! All of these cards have the potential to shine. Which ones you get depend on your shuffle luck and what your opponent does. That's what sets this kingdom apart from the rest. In all the other kingdoms, the most important part is picking your strategy, and from there all there is left to do is get the cards you need and build your deck. Here, depending on the cards you have drawn, your deck may be in a range of states,  and depending on that it just may be time to deviate from the 5 main cards and pick up one of these.

Running low on money near the end of the game, and also need points? stonemason a rats, pick up tunnel and storeroom, draw them, activate the tunnel, and draw the gold, all in one turn. Tunnel also fits the role as a consolation duchy near the end, and can has a slim chance to pile out. Storeroom can also act as your +buy, sifting through your rats, and for some money as well.

Have 8, two piles gone, a little behind on points, and can get two estates? buy stonemason, overpay by 6, get two hunting grounds, and trash them with watchtower for 6 estates. Hunting grounds can also be used effectively earlier in the game for draw and later stonemasoning into 3 duchies.

5/2 split? Open catacombs/stonemason, trash the catacombs later with stonemason for 3 $4 costs. Catacombs can also act as sifting and draw, while also being able to liquify into better cards later or for a three pile.

Oh, uh, minion. Minion acts as some sifting for you, can give you some money in a pinch if you need it, and attacks your opponents. The attack isn't negligible either - if they don't have a watchtower their new hand, it hurts, and every turn counts a lot. And it's not terminal, which is important if you lost the fortress split. Minion is the weakest card in this kingdom, I believe.

It's worth noting that this kingdom was intended for using shelters, and not colonies. The opposite was used in the match. There is no point to colonies (no way are you ever hitting 9+ AND for some reason wanting platinum or colony). Shelters add to the craziness. Overgrown estate gets you a card when you trash it with rats. hovel will probably not matter - you'll most likely trash it before you get a tunnel. Necropolis gives you another +action card, and sort of combos with watchtower. You probably want to get rid of it, but you could get use out of it before you do and if you don't get rid of it right away it isn't a big deal.

EDIT: I see shark_bait's and polk's sample game now. They went more heavily tunnel/storeroom, and indeed, tunnels did pile. Polk tended more towards the intended strategy, and so won. The effects of all the shelters were used at least once. Game was slower, 13 turns, so I think AI's strategy was better, though still improvable. More evidence that the whole kingdom is relevant.

All that shark_bait and polk said about this kingdom was:
Quote
This is a yes for sure, lots of awesome tactics. -- SB, agreed -- Polk

Well, I'm glad they liked it, I hope everyone else did too.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 09:52:18 pm by liopoil »
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2014, 09:46:32 pm »
+2

Pictures would help.

Oh, right. Will add to OP.

Test games and pictures added to OP.
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Awaclus

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2014, 09:50:58 pm »
+1

Pictures would help.

Oh, right. Will add to OP.

Test games and pictures added to OP.
You have the test game for kingdom #6 twice there (in place of #7).
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2014, 10:05:58 pm »
0

You have the test game for kingdom #6 twice there (in place of #7).

Fixed. I had trouble navigating that kingdom, so I guess I was subconsciously trying to suppress that game.  ;)
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MarkowKette

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2014, 07:01:52 am »
+2

I'm following liopoils example to sum up my Kingdom a bit more closely than in the spreadsheet's comments. Especially since i submitted a slightly different version of this kingdom before the final one where i wrote the main comments to this kingdom and those are not  displayed here.

My Kingdom is #4:
Horse Traders,Fool's Gold,Menagerie,Develop,Warehouse,Conspirator,Minion,Duke,Horn of Plenty,Candlestick Maker

Quote
This board should be the replacement to the Kingdom i submitted earlier
(that was the same one with Farmland instead of Candlestickmaker)

After a lot of playtesting it turned out, that the Minion strategy was still a bit too weak without any nonterminal +buy. I added CM now because it is the only card that fits for that issue and doesnt benefit the other strategies too much here.

Also i have to add to my former comments, that this board is a little bit of a Rock-Paper-Scissors Board where each strategy has another strategy here to soft counter it. So it add's a bit mindgames to the gameplay in the regard, that if player A starts and goes for strategy 1 player B who goes second can chose the soft counter strategy and now player A has to decide if he wants to maybe adjust to another strategy that maybe counters player B's strategy even though he already started building a different strategy and would maybe be a turn behind where he would be if he started with that strategy.
But all strategys have a chance to even beat their counter strategy if played well.

I still agree with most of what i wrote there but the "change your strategy to adjust to your opponent" dynamics are extremely unlikely to come into play.

I had a few goals when i created this Kingdom:

It should feature a Slog-strategy, a BM-strategy, and two completely different engine strategies.
It should be possible to play all four strategies in a 4player game with none of them strictly superior or inferior to the others.
I wanted some Rock-Paper-Scissors dynamics with each (slog/BM) strat having an engine to soft counter it and each engine
to have slog or BM as a soft counter. But it should not be that one strategy completely crushes one of the other strategies so that the game is never already decided once the players chose their strategy.
Balancing was a big focus point for me so i playtested the Kingdom about 20 times until i had the best constellation of cards.
(And i wanted Menagerie in my Kingdom because i absulutely love it and Rats just didnt fit in at all which is the only card i love even more^^)

Strategies: Engine around Minion with lots of support (Minion probably only for draw and Conspirators, CM for the money)
                 Horse Traders Duke Slog with CM support.
                 HT/CM/Fools Gold Big Money
                 HoP Engine with lots of Warehouses and Menagerie
                 A mix of both engines with a single Hop as gainer CM, Warehouse, Menagerie and Conspirator.

The engine with Minions may seem too strong to be beaten and i would agree if playtesting didn't prove me wrong.
Horse Traders is such a great defence against Minions that both HT strategies are faster against a Minion stack than they would be in a solitaire game.
The HoP engine that goes for one megaturn is the one with the highest skill requirement here and not easy to see
as Menagerie is the only way to increase your handsize and you can only draw 3 HoP with it . But some people forget that Warehouse actually draws cards so you can draw all the HoP that you discarded to warehouse later with warehouse if you have enough other uniques to discard in the end. So Cards like a single FG or a Duchy etc actually benefit your engine later in the game. You still have to get rid of the estates and most of your copper for that to work so Develop is key here and Develop is very slow.
FG/HT has a very high variance on how fast it gets Provinces so it has a good chance to sneak enough Provices before the HoP Megaturn. An engine can contest the Warehouses and Menageries to build a 3pile threat.

I think the balancing is best for 2 and 3 players as with 4 players it's very likely that 2 or 3 engine players will fight for similar engine pieces and thus slow each other down.

RPS dynamics in simple:
Minion usually beats FG
HT/Duke usually beasts Minion
HoP beats HT/Duke
FG has a high chance of beating HoP

The engines against each other and the non engines against each other are extremely even.

Quote
Engine was able to slightly beat a HT/FG attempt in our game but it was quite close. tighter play or better draws could decide it, as could pairing HT with the engine players minion more often. going hard for HT/Duke might prove to be a stronger option than FG or engine. the kingdom seems to be pretty well balanced. -GE

Which engine did you try?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 07:11:39 am by MarkowKette »
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2014, 07:35:13 am »
+8

I'll write a bit more about the Counting House kingdom (#5).

First of all, thanks a lot to Andrew for figuring it out, at least partially. It made a great watching experience and I secretly enjoyed seeing so many viewers go down with the Mountebank ship. The real moral victory would be to see Counting House end up anything but last in Qvists $5 card rankings next year, or Mountebank anything but first, just because people remember this game.

Andrew didn't fully figure it out though, and neither did I at the time. His plan eventually was to play multiple counting houses, prevent a reshuffle at all cost, and then end with a combination of scheming and a nicely timed Inn to get going again next turn. You can take the engine to the next level by actually triggering shuffle at the right moment.

By the time the final was played I thought this requires 5 scheme plays, but actually it's 4. Trick is: leave one random junk card on top of your deck (say an estate) and then use 4xScheme to add Festival, Counting House, Plaza, Storeroom. Start playing festival, Counting House to get all the coppers, plaza (triggers shuffle), now storeroom to replace all the coppers for the nice action cards in your deck. You need to play at least 4 schemes (possibly helped by throne room) and put a junk card back on top. Inn's main purpose is to start it up in the first place.

As soon as you get to that stage you can add as many coppers as your buys allow you to.
This way you don't have to keep buying Inns, and you can use every card in your deck every turn.
Here's a recent log for this set, but I still misplay that one. (2nd plaza is unnecessary; only during that game I figure out 4 schemes is what you need, not 5; festival before counting house is much better).
Also, I'm running out of opponents who think Mountebank is a good card in this set, which makes playtesting and comparing to Andrews game strange (curses are bad but free coppers are good)
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2014, 07:46:12 am »
+1

Quote
Engine was able to slightly beat a HT/FG attempt in our game but it was quite close. tighter play or better draws could decide it, as could pairing HT with the engine players minion more often. going hard for HT/Duke might prove to be a stronger option than FG or engine. the kingdom seems to be pretty well balanced. -GE

Which engine did you try?

See the test game in OP. I went for the "mix" option.
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2014, 07:50:37 am »
0

I'll write a bit more about the Counting House kingdom (#5)....

How do you think the game will play out if both players ignore Mountebank? Should they?
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2014, 08:13:35 am »
+1

I'll write a bit more about the Counting House kingdom (#5)....

How do you think the game will play out if both players ignore Mountebank? Should they?

Yes I think both players should ignore Mountebank. Getting it for free would be good, but the opportunity cost of not getting a Festival / Counting House is too high.
After that, it's still a tricky engine because of all the necessary shuffle control and balancing the power of your deck (#buys to increase coppers, #coppers to profit from couting house, #of counting house+storeroom to profit from each copper).
Also the endgame is strange because this deck does not get weaker at all if you add green (if 10 curses don't slow you down, neither does green). Except off course that you miss the opportunity of buying a copper :)
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2014, 03:20:08 pm »
+2

I'm really happy my kingdom (game 9) was an honourable mention. It was the first one I submitted and possibly my favourite among my submisions. It's really cool how it's eligible for the vote since it got played, albeit in a way I wasn't expecting. Given this, I might as well comment on it.

Here's what I had to say about it:
Quote
I chose this Kingdom in the hopes of pitting a possible engine deck against a Fool's gold deck where both have good support. There are also a few neat on-trash effects to take advantage of, and a few synergies to consider.

Stonemason can be used to quickly collect sifters, drawers, light trashers, and a source of +buy; These are appealing both to the mega-draw engine and the Fool's Gold heavy deck, but one will ultimately need treasure in order to buy anything. Deck thinning is limited, but Native Village is not necessarily a shot in the dark here. Will Adventurer finally be put to good use?

I don't have all that much to add to this description. There is an interesting choice as to whether to add Gold or FG late game for buying power. With enough deck-thinning from Stonemason and Native Village, it's possible to build up to a Gold-centric mega-turn from Market Square discard. You can even play Procession on Adventurer to draw newly gained Gold should it ever come to that.

I think any strategy on the board benefits from Ironmongers and the Cheap components that can be picked up with Stonemaon. My thinking with the Catacombs was that its sifting makes FG a bit more enticing. The sifting is not to be underestimated. SCSN and Mic were discussing replacing Witch with Cultist in the Commentary, but in my mind the Cultist on-trash ability and multi-play ability would be overkill and make the game too swingy. Personally, I find the simplicity of the Witch adds a certain charm to the board.
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2014, 05:16:19 am »
+2

Kingdom number 2

Oasis,Shanty Town,Marauder,Young Witch,Mining Village,Silk Road,Market,Stables,Merchant Ship,Graverobber,Vagrant

This is what I said before:
"I tried to design a kingdom where a slog might compete with an engine.
Main questions are: Young Witch or Marauder? What to do after the Ruins/Curses are gone?
I also tried to avoid "pick me"-cards, ending up with a kingdom of rather weak ones."

reasons:
- I'm not good enough to balance two competetive engines.
- I counted on the other submitters to do a lot of crazy engine or combo stuff, so I wanted to do something else.
- It shouldn't be too dull so that you at least have to make a few tough decisions.

specific picks:
- Marauder/Young Witch: I feel these two cards are quite equal in strength, but can be used differently. I clearly wanted to force a decision between them.
- Oasis: It's good when you have bad cards to discard to it. There's also a synergy with vagrant. Of course, it antisynergizes with YW as I felt YW was a little bit stronger than Marauder.
- Vagrant as bane: Vagrant is not a bad card. It helps you draw a lot of junk, so that you can play your good cards more often. As a bane, well, it's nice to have one or two, but there is also opportunity cost. Most times you could as well buy silver or even a silk road.
- Market: I wanted a +buy, but it shouldn't be as cheap as $3 or $4. It should avoid early 3-piling and it should not be easy to pick up Vagrants "along the way".
- Shanty Town/Mining Village: Two villages to encourage "over-terminalizing". While Shanty Town is rather bad against Marauder, it can shine against cursers. ST was the last card to add, because I didn't feel like I could find another card that wouldn't change a lot. Mining Village can later on be used as a one-shot. I didn't expect the run for silk roads to start that early.
- Silk Road: If you're going to slog, that is the best card to do so. It's cheap, but can be worth more than Duchies.
- Stables: If you want to go a little bit more enginy, this is your draw. It's non-terminal and you will have your Coppers around to feed it once or twice a turn.
- Merchant Ship: That's rather a BM card. Since it's a duration card, you can again overterminalize a bit. It can help both, the slog and the engine/BM.
- Graverobber: Trashing is fine, and so far, most cards have favored Marauder over YW. This one should be the other way: It can trash ruins to gain Villages, or it can re-gain Villages from the trash, if you traded them before. There is a synergy with Mining Village. Yet, it's slow, and it might be a trap.

I do not have a concrete plan, how to play this kingdom. I'm not sure if a slog is good enough to go for, if the other player isn't doing the same because you can hardly empty piles before the other one gets to Province turns. I'm still not sure about the opening. 5/2 would be OK, maybe picking up Stables/Vagrant for maximum sifting, but maybe that's just wrong, too. On a 4/3 I really don't know whether YW or Marauder is preferable here. I would really like to see, if there is an engine to be played on this board. Since AI and JOG didn't try this, I suppose, it's not good enough.

edit: Appearantly the engine thing is not worth it, so it's pretty much a sloggy kingdom. Ruins are likely to run out, and even if curses don't, a 3-pile is possible before this really bad engine can kick off.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 12:06:55 pm by c4master »
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theblankman

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2014, 10:59:50 am »
+6

At the risk of cluttering the thread...



Edit: At pretty much anyone's request I'll be happy to move this elsewhere.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 11:01:39 am by theblankman »
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it's a shame that full-random is the de facto standard

Awaclus

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2014, 01:46:08 pm »
+1

There isn't much to be written about my kingdom, but I'll write something anyway.

(No Colonies, USE Shelters) Squire, Bridge, Apprentice, Haggler, Marauder, Urchin, Shanty Town, Library, Hoard, Harem

I basically just took the two cards that I have the highest win rates given avail on CouncilRoom (Bridge and Pearl Diver) and built a kingdom around them that I wouldn't know how to play. Then there was no room for Pearl Diver so it isn't there. Then I submitted the kingdom with zero playtesting and was surprised to see that it was in the finals and that both players went for a strategy that I did not anticipate.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 01:47:20 pm by Awaclus »
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's CC-licensed albums for free

soulnet

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2014, 03:02:29 pm »
+3

My kingdom is nr1: Moat, Vagrant, Scheme, Island, Throne Room, Salvager, Jester, Rabble, Fairgrounds, Peddler

I wanted an engine that clearly works but that makes you work to make it work. I decided for no good trashing, no good sifting and no strong attacks, but strong payload (Salvager on Peddler), stability (Island) and good alt-VP (Fairgrounds). Since Salvager is the only +Buy and TR being the only +Actions, you need to get your fair share of TRs, but when to get them to avoid having dud hands? I believe the optimal play has room for all cards, but it is highly dependent on draws. $2 extra, Moat or Vagrant? Depends on the status. When to get Jester over Rabble? Scheme is great for TR-based engines, but, when to get it over TR or Salvager? In summary: It is a reactive board and a clear engine board, but still hard to pull-off.
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RobertJ

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2014, 06:05:59 pm »
+3


I took a rather unsophisticated approach to this so I don't have a huge amount to say. Still, since many of the other finalists have said a bit about their entries here is my secret history of Kingdom #3.

Kingdom #3: (USE Colonies, No Shelters) Storeroom, Wishing Well, Coppersmith, Mining Village, Salvager, Throne Room, Mint, Tactician, Bank, Forge

The basic approach in designing this kingdom was to start from Tactician and to throw in a load of stuff that goes well (but not overpoweringly well) with it until it got to the point where I had no clue what I would do.

So, with a single Tactician there's Bank and Coppersmith (ideally Throned). Going for double Tactician, virtual money is a bit weak but is there in Salvager (Mint fueled) and Storeroom. Wishing Well can fit nicely with several of these approaches, particularly since there's no real draw. Finally, Forge could find a use in various ways in both possibilities. Even having decided on the basic strategy it's not obvious (to me at least) how to get there quickly or what the best opening is.

I didn't give it any playtesting and I didn't really have a good idea of what the best approach was although my hope was that some kind of double Tactician thing with money coming from Minting then Salvaging Platinums was the way to go. In the two matches all four players took slightly different lines and both single and double Tactician strategies were used. It seemed that the single Tactician and money approach worked better but I'd love to see someone prove that wrong and show us how to make double Tactician/Mint/Salvager more competetive.

Congratulations to all four players involved for giving us two great matches. It was fun to see you playing my kingdom. Huge thanks also to all involved with running the tournament and the Kingdom design challenge.
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Warrior

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2014, 01:16:36 pm »
+1

Unfortunately, I can't access the videos from the links on the OP. Anyone else having trouble with it?
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