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Author Topic: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists and Winner  (Read 32752 times)

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Polk5440

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2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists and Winner
« on: May 16, 2014, 09:16:02 am »
+21

[If you can't see the poll above this post, you must log in or register!]

These are the ten sets that were used for the final match of GokoDom III.  (The final match did not end in eight games, so two honorable mentions were used as well and are eligible for the final vote.)

Voting is one round of approval voting. You may vote for ("approve of") as many kingdoms as you like. So if there are a few kingdoms you really like, you can vote for all of them without fear of "wasting your vote." You may define favorite in any way you choose. You may change your vote at any time before the close of the poll.

Voting will close one week after the end of the third place match for GokoDom.

The winner will receive the Dominion expansion of his choice.

-----

CONGRATULATIONS to the 8 finalists (in alphabetical order): Awaclus, c4master, liopoil, MarkowKette, RobertJ, Rush_Clasic, soulnet, and Stef, and the two honorable mentions: markusin and WanderingWinder. Because the two honorable mentions were played as part of the GokoDom final (kingdoms #9 and #10), they are eligible to be voted upon, as well.

How the final kingdoms were selected (judging criteria) is here.

Here's an article on Kingdom Design in which I tried to outline some of the issues that came up when the judges were evaluating kingdoms.

Feel free to discuss the kingdoms in this thread. How would you play them? Which are your favorite? 

----------------------------------------------

Full Steam of the Gold Medal Match (kingdoms played in order):
Youtube playlist of entire match. Mic Qsenoch and Shecantsayno commentate last two games. AI and JOG do post-game commentary for some of the games.

Full Stream of the Bronze Medal Match (kingdoms played in alternate order):
Part I, Adam Horton commentates
Part II, for fun, Adam Horton commentates; MarkowKette fills in for michaeljb for kingdom #10

Kingdom #1: (No Colonies, No Shelters) Moat, Vagrant, Scheme, Island, Throne Room, Salvager, Jester, Rabble, Fairgrounds, Peddler




[video 1] [log] [video2] [log] [test game]

Kingdom #2: (No Colonies, No Shelters) Oasis, Shanty Town, Marauder, Young Witch, Mining Village, Silk Road, Market, Stables, Merchant Ship, Graverobber, Vagrant (note: Vagrant is bane)




[video 1] [log] [video2] [log] [test game]

Kingdom #3: (USE Colonies, No Shelters) Storeroom, Wishing Well, Coppersmith, Mining Village, Salvager, Throne Room, Mint, Tactician, Bank, Forge




[video 1] [log] [video2] [log] [test game1] [test game2]

Kingdom #4: (No Colonies, No Shelters) Horse Traders, Fool's Gold, Menagerie, Develop, Warehouse, Conspirator, Minion, Duke, Horn of Plenty, Candlestick Maker




[video 1] [log] [video2] [log] [test game]

Kingdom #5: (USE Colonies, No Shelters) Counting House, Mountebank, Inn, Festival, Throne Room, Plaza, Gardens, Trade Route, Storeroom, Scheme




[video 1] [log] [video2] [log] [test game]

Kingdom #6: (No Colonies, No Shelters) Poor House, Hamlet, Tunnel, Oracle, Doctor, Remake, Sea Hag, Inn, Merchant Guild, King's Court




[video 1] [log] [video2] [log] [test game]

Kingdom #7: (No Colonies, USE Shelters) Squire, Bridge, Apprentice, Haggler, Marauder, Urchin, Shanty Town, Library, Hoard, Harem




[video 1] [log] [video2] [log] [test game]

Kingdom #8: (No Colonies, USE Shelters) Stonemason, Tunnel, Storeroom, Watchtower, Rats, Bishop, Fortress, Catacombs, Minion, Hunting Grounds




[video 1] [log] [video2] [log] [test game]

Kingdom #9: (No Colonies, No Shelters) Fool's Gold, Native Village, Stonemason, Market Square, Wishing Well, Ironmonger, Procession, Catacombs, Witch, Adventurer




[video1] [log] [video2] [log] [test game]

Kingdom #10: (USE Colonies, No Shelters) Scavenger, Philosopher's Stone, Gardens, Squire, Worker's Village, Vault, Steward, Caravan, Mountebank, Adventurer




[video1] [log] [video2, AdamH v. MarkowKette] [log] [test game]

----------------------------------------------

[[[[LINK TO SPREADSHEET]]]]

The spreadsheet contains a list of all the entries, the candidates, the finalists, playtesting comments, card statistics, and expansion statistics.

------------


Logistics:

Ok. So, last night we had a little leak. The player we were most concerned with having his name associated with a kingdom is now associated with the kingdom he created.

Given this, and the fact that people can simply log search by kingdom to see play test logs on Goko to find out the creator, I think it would help all the other kingdoms out if we post the spreadsheet with the kingdom descriptions and play test comments. This spreadsheet associates the kingdoms with the people who submitted them and includes all 123 kingdoms, 54 playtested candidates, and honorable mentions. I will also add playtest logs later where I think the playtesters attempted to implement something different from the GokoDom games or highlights something in the submitter's description of a kingdom. 

Edit: added the last two kingdoms.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 07:09:38 pm by Polk5440 »
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-Stef-

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 09:42:07 am »
+5

Ok. So, last night we had a little leak. The player we were most concerned with having his name associated with a kingdom is now associated with the kingdom he created.

Reading this, I feel a little guilty, sorry and surprised at the same time.

I didn't realize you would still try to keep this a secret after the finals were played. That just sounds impossible. I mean - even before the finals it was already quite easy to find all the kingdoms you playtested (I at least found them a couple of days ago). That was just based on the usernames of the playtesters, rating system and time frame. Now that all the exact kingdoms are out it's even easier.

Nevertheless, it should have read your instructions more carefully and I'm sorry.

P.S. Maybe Andrew can implement a 'blacklist' system in his log search tool for usernames/games not to index, if we ever want to do a design contest again. That, or you should playtest IRL.

P.P.S. thanks for organizing the contest. Seeing them play my kingdom yesterday was fun.
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 09:47:16 am »
+2

No problem, Stef. It was an impossible ask, really. Last year we didn't even try. Since there were requests in other threads for anonymity I thought we'd give it a go.

Thinking about it more, it will be better to see the descriptions and stuff when voting. And the descriptions give away the identities a lot of the time anyway.
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ragingduckd

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 09:57:17 am »
+9

Congratulations and thank you to everyone who designed kingdoms.  They were really a lot of fun to play!  I especially liked how most of them had several compelling options with dramatically different consequences.
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SCSN

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2014, 02:36:53 pm »
+3

Quote
Ok. So, last night we had a little leak. The player we were most concerned with having his name associated with a kingdom is now associated with the kingdom he created.

I take all the blame for this. All Stef did was drop some vague hints that indicated his certainty as to how the kingdom ought to be played. That in itself is nothing surprising, as I'm sure he feels that way about a lot of kingdoms—I certainly do so myself. However, when I contrasted that with my own complete confusion there were only two possible explanations:

1. He's just that much better than me.

2. He designed the kingdom himself.

Excuse me for first wanting to eliminate #2 before being willing to consider #1 ;)

When I then asked him about it in public chat there was just very little he could do besides flat out lying. Had he ignored my question I might have gotten the hint, but I also might have assumed he missed it (the chat was quite hectic) and proceeded to ask again. Had he ignored that again it would have been just as clear as if he'd said "yes" in the first place.

Why did I ask about it at all? Well, I haven't been following this Kingdom Design thing too closely, so had no idea these things were supposed to be kept a secret still...

If it's any consolation: the fact that I'll end up voting for it is solely due to Andrew's brilliant performance. Had he not made what I considered a "gross opening blunder" and just proceeded to play, as Jog did, "the only sensible strategy", I would have dismissed the kingdom as plain silliness and attributed its presence among the finalists to an utter lack of creativity among the remaining contestants. Yes, Stef is so good that he outplays you even long after his elimination; I might have to consider #1 after all ;)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 02:39:08 pm by SheCantSayNo »
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2014, 03:08:10 pm »
0

Quote
Ok. So, last night we had a little leak. The player we were most concerned with having his name associated with a kingdom is now associated with the kingdom he created.

I take all the blame for this.

Don't worry about it. ;)

It was a lot to expect, and in the past the kingdom creators were announced along with the kingdom, and we didn't really publicize very well our expectations about how long to keep them (semi-)anonymous.

The last thing I want to have happen is people feel bad about it and remove the joy they got from seeing these kingdoms played out, or from having their kingdom picked.

--

Any bets on how the kingdoms will play out for the third place match? :P
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liopoil

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2014, 05:11:35 pm »
+4

I submitted two kingdoms. I didn't playtest either of them and didn't put a whole lot of effort into them. I remember watching one of the games and thinking, "is that my kingdom? I think that's my kingdom", but I wasn't able to watch the whole stream and so now I am looking at another one of the kingdoms and thinking that one might be mine instead. Polk, could you PM me which kingdom is mine? :P
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soulnet

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2014, 07:16:57 pm »
+1

I would like (if it is not too annoying) that you either do not post the description we made about the kingdoms, give us an opportunity to edit them or edit them yourself (this last option would be useful to preserve anonymity, if that were still a desire).

EDIT: Clarification in case the request sounds strange: My own descriptions were kind of messy because they were written in a rush. If they are going to be read by a broader audience, I would like them cleaned up a little bit. BTW, sorry to the organizer for putting up with my poor written original descriptions.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 07:40:10 pm by soulnet »
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2014, 07:23:25 pm »
0

Edits to OP: logs and video links for GokoDom Gold Medal Match games.
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MarkowKette

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2014, 07:45:47 pm »
0

I would like (if it is not too annoying) that you either do not post the description we made about the kingdoms, give us an opportunity to edit them or edit them yourself (this last option would be useful to preserve anonymity, if that were still a desire).

EDIT: Clarification in case the request sounds strange: My own descriptions were kind of messy because they were written in a rush. If they are going to be read by a broader audience, I would like them cleaned up a little bit. BTW, sorry to the organizer for putting up with my poor written original descriptions.

yeah if those description will be posted i would like to edit mine aswell. I put a lot of effort in playtesting but very little in writing a good description :P
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Awaclus

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2014, 08:00:47 pm »
0

I don't remember what my description was, but it probably wasn't very good since I totally wasn't expecting the strategy that AI and JOG went for.
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 08:25:18 pm »
+2

I would like (if it is not too annoying) that you either do not post the description we made about the kingdoms, give us an opportunity to edit them or edit them yourself (this last option would be useful to preserve anonymity, if that were still a desire).

The short answer is: no. (I confirmed this with greatexpectations)

The long answer: It's a pain and a lot of work to update the public spreadsheets. When we judged the entries, the descriptions mattered. They should be viewed as a "post" in time about what you thought when you submitted the kingdom. Those descriptions often impacted how we playtested, and playtest comments are often in response to the descriptions.

Any "edits", new insights, or new descriptions should be made in the discussion thread as part of the discussion on your kingdom.
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2014, 08:27:21 pm »
0

In terms of which kingdom was the most fun to watch I would have to say either kingdom 8 or kingdom 5 were tops. However, that isn't the only criteria to judge a good kingdom off. As a lot of my enjoyment in watching was seeing different strategies compete. And just because other kingdoms saw the competitors have more similar strats doesn't make them any worse.

But 5 and 8 were really, really fun to watch.
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2014, 08:45:57 pm »
+3

I'm pretty sure and looking foreward to see AdamH and Michaeljb play some different strategies on some of those kingdoms in their 3rd place match.
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2014, 09:54:42 am »
0

How was the order of the kingdoms decided?
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MarkowKette

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2014, 10:26:43 am »
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i'd guess random-ish
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2014, 11:07:40 am »
0

How was the order of the kingdoms decided?

It was part of the final selection process. They were ordered to try to make each kingdom and the match as exciting as possible. For example, three kingdoms used Throne Room, so we separated them.

I'll say more when I post how the judging/selection went. I'll post that and the poll after the conclusion of the match between AI and JOG.
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2014, 11:13:40 am »
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Also, it should be noted that kingdom #8 was designed to be played with No Colonies and to USE Shelters, but something got crossed, and it was played with Colonies and no Shelters instead.
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liopoil

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2014, 11:17:25 am »
+1

I guess we'll see how it plays that way in the 3rd place match, should it make it to 8 games?
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2014, 05:45:17 pm »
+2

If the order of the kingdoms is not supposed to indicate any preference by the judges, maybe it would be good to change it for the 3rd place match. Like, reverse it. Kingdoms at the end tend to get more attention, but also have a risk of not even being used.
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2014, 09:29:49 pm »
+3

If the order of the kingdoms is not supposed to indicate any preference by the judges, maybe it would be good to change it for the 3rd place match. Like, reverse it. Kingdoms at the end tend to get more attention, but also have a risk of not even being used.

Hmmm. I like that suggestion. If AI and JOG hadn't gotten through all 8, I was just going to start Adam and Michael at the break, so going in reverse for their match seems like a good idea.

Any objections?
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2014, 09:36:20 pm »
0

If the order of the kingdoms is not supposed to indicate any preference by the judges, maybe it would be good to change it for the 3rd place match. Like, reverse it. Kingdoms at the end tend to get more attention, but also have a risk of not even being used.

Hmmm. I like that suggestion. If AI and JOG hadn't gotten through all 8, I was just going to start Adam and Michael at the break, so going in reverse for their match seems like a good idea.

Any objections?
I think it would be a good idea.
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2014, 09:38:25 pm »
0

agreed

EDIT: when do the poll and spreadsheet stuff go up? After the third place match?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 06:29:04 pm by liopoil »
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Polk5440

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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2014, 06:45:06 pm »
+1

agreed

EDIT: when do the poll and spreadsheet stuff go up? After the third place match?

I am working on it now, actually. Adam H and michealjb are on the honor system.
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Re: 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge Finalists (Final Voting is Open)
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2014, 07:57:17 pm »
+1

Poll is added (see top of thread).

OP is edited to include links to an article on Kingdom Design, the spreadsheet with the playtest comments and card statistics, and a link to my description on how the judging went.

Oh, how many Scout kingdoms were there (out of 123 entries)? eight.   

The most popular card was Squire.              It appeared in 20          kingdoms.

Cards that were not used: Envoy, Navigator, Remodel, and Stash.     
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