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Author Topic: Robz vs Pirate Ship  (Read 18083 times)

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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2014, 11:38:52 pm »
0

Bringing this up one last time. I don't feel comfortable naming a winner for mine or SCSN's boards yet. I think Robz wins mine and PS wins SCSN's? Help me out here! You can find the links to the boards in the first post.
you named Robz the winner on my board for no reason, just do it again  ::)

I did? Hold on a minute!
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2014, 11:42:44 pm »
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Quote
Interestingly, I'm not sure this rock-paper-scissors scenario counts. The deck without Pirate Ship still beats the deck with Pirate Ship. The Pirate Ship deck beats the Fools Gold deck, but you don't go for the Fools Gold deck because there is Pirate Ship.

(Additionally, I'm not 100% convinced the Fools Gold deck cant beat the PS deck anyway.)

nono, there is no rock-paper-scissors scenario. you want to open forager/pirate ship, like i did, get a second forager and a second pirate ship, and if by that time your opponent has not picked up a pirate ship of his own, like it happened in my game, you go fools gold. if your opponent just went fools gold, he will lose, because your pirate ship will hit his fools gold, and you contested him, so he isn't going to have many, and your pirate ships which will always hit will win the game. if your opponent went mystics he will lose, because you have lots of fg in a small deck. if your opponent went masterpiece, he will lose, because you have lots of fg in a small deck. if your opponent went pirate ship of his own, well, then it doesn't matter, because both sides have pirate ship. in any case, pirate ship wins.

i completely agree that pirate ship is bad in the other 2 kingdoms.

I'd have agreed had Duke been something silly like Counting House, but with Duke on board Fool's Gold should be ignored entirely and a Pirate Ship/Forager open sounds awfully slow. Opening Silver/Silver, getting Duchy on 5 and Masterpiece on 6-7 (probably twice before switching to Duchy entirely?) should win here.

I think I mostly based the decision off of this post. Discussion is never closed on a board so feel free to keep discussing it if you want, maybe everyone will agree that PS is better (I don't consider myself a good judge of these things, or maybe I'm just lazy).
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

brokoli

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #102 on: June 26, 2014, 04:55:29 am »
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Bringing this up one last time. I don't feel comfortable naming a winner for mine or SCSN's boards yet. I think Robz wins mine and PS wins SCSN's? Help me out here! You can find the links to the boards in the first post.
I think I would go pirate ship on both games.

On your game I would probably just get one Pirate or two, it depends on how fast opponent trashes. but I don't think you can trash all your coppers so quickly because it's hard to build economy with just fortune tellers. Also, ignoring pirate ship somehow means that you open the way of pillage for your opponent. I mean, if you draw a little bit you'll quickly see your spoils coming and use them. I'm not sure about tactician, actually. Double-tactician is cool but as you said it's hard to double-province. I think a hunting grounds or two would do the job better.

About SCSN's, the log convince me. The only real source of draw is stables and it depends on treasures, so building an action-money deck against pirate ship seems really hard. I have some experience with butcher as source of money, and it's a terrible card for that.
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amalloy

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2014, 12:54:42 pm »
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I have one that I played a while ago. There was virtual money but no trashing or buys. I would be surprised if there was a way around PS here. I didn't play all that well but neither did my opponent. If you look through the log you can see some pretty serious blunders on my part and that I wasn't paying attention to my opponents deck state.



Code: [Select]
Scrying Pool, Oracle, Fortress, Militia, Noble Brigand, Pirate Ship, Procession, Silk Road, Talisman, Harem
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140510/log.50d804c7e4b0b34255505855.1399761717962.txt

Pirate Ship seems terrible here. Every Copper you trash is a gift from Heaven for your opponent, who is having trouble drawing enough with Scrying Pool (given the lack of trashing and +buy). And every Pirate Ship you gain is a Fortress or Militia you don't gain, so you're slowing yourself down in order to help him. There's no +buy, so the 30-odd coins you may be able to get from Pirate Ship in the endgame will go completely to waste. I'd rather just let my opponent trash me all he wants, and build a deck with six Scrying Pools (I'll win the split since he's faffing around with Pirate Ships) and a bunch of Fortress/Militia for reliably drawable coins.
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Eevee

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2014, 11:48:52 am »
+5



Code: [Select]
Farming Village, Feast, Feodum, Pirate Ship, Procession, Spice Merchant, City, Journeyman, Venture, King's Court

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140924/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1411571456403.txt

From a league match I just played with Qvist. If you want to see a video of it, http://www.livestream.com/eevertti/video?clipId=pla_259b6b23-ce6b-47c4-9918-205b466d5bc8 starting at 1:29:30. Pretty sure this is a pirate ship affair.
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liopoil

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2014, 02:10:50 pm »
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http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.
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amalloy

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2014, 03:11:24 pm »
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http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.

I think I'd rather play Ironworks + Great Hall, with maybe some Throne Rooms. My deck will be so full of actions that Pirate Ship will have trouble hitting, and the game will end too fast to get the money payoff from Pirate Ship.
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liopoil

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2014, 03:13:10 pm »
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http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.

I think I'd rather play Ironworks + Great Hall, with maybe some Throne Rooms. My deck will be so full of actions that Pirate Ship will have trouble hitting, and the game will end too fast to get the money payoff from Pirate Ship.
How are you ending the game? Empty GH, TR, and IW? The pirate ship player will be doing the same thing except he picked up PS and NC, so will be able to snag a couple provinces.
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amalloy

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2014, 05:37:52 pm »
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http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.

I think I'd rather play Ironworks + Great Hall, with maybe some Throne Rooms. My deck will be so full of actions that Pirate Ship will have trouble hitting, and the game will end too fast to get the money payoff from Pirate Ship.
How are you ending the game? Empty GH, TR, and IW? The pirate ship player will be doing the same thing except he picked up PS and NC, so will be able to snag a couple provinces.

Estates. Just a couple Throne Rooms will give me enough villages to chow down estates pretty quickly. And if my opponent is really doing "the same thing but with a pirate ship and a nomad camp" I think he will be behind on the rush, with not enough pirate ships for the ships to pay off before the game ends.
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liopoil

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2014, 05:57:35 pm »
+1

I played another one! This one was very case-specific, pirate ship wouldn't necessarily be good here every time: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.506872f90cf2795d403d3f0a.1413150852099.txt

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.

I think I'd rather play Ironworks + Great Hall, with maybe some Throne Rooms. My deck will be so full of actions that Pirate Ship will have trouble hitting, and the game will end too fast to get the money payoff from Pirate Ship.
How are you ending the game? Empty GH, TR, and IW? The pirate ship player will be doing the same thing except he picked up PS and NC, so will be able to snag a couple provinces.

Estates. Just a couple Throne Rooms will give me enough villages to chow down estates pretty quickly. And if my opponent is really doing "the same thing but with a pirate ship and a nomad camp" I think he will be behind on the rush, with not enough pirate ships for the ships to pay off before the game ends.
Hmmm. And BM would probably beat that strategy, right? So you go for the rush, but if your opponent goes for money, get pirate ships?

Still, 8 GH and 8 estates is 16 points, minus 2 times however many the pirate ship player gets. Pirate ship needs only a few duchies to win. It would be close.
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-Stef-

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #110 on: October 13, 2014, 04:17:38 am »
+2

I played another one! This one was very case-specific, pirate ship wouldn't necessarily be good here every time: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.506872f90cf2795d403d3f0a.1413150852099.txt

Hurray! an actual Pirate Ship board. Not as case-specific as you may think.
Unless either player wins the torturing so badly the other one resigns, the ships would always see play.

it features...
* you already have the throne rooms anyway.
* no +buy, no gains, so no quick 3-pile ending.
* copper trashing already happening.
* enough alt VP to beat any sort of province rush.

And as usual the main function of the "good pirate ship" is to remove your opponents money, not so much to gain $ yourself.
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