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Author Topic: Robz vs Pirate Ship  (Read 17606 times)

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AndrewisFTTW

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Robz vs Pirate Ship
« on: May 13, 2014, 12:53:14 am »
+11

I know I'm not posting a game but I just thought since there have been so many posts trying to prove to Robz that Pirate Ship is viable, we should just put them all in one thread. So if you'd like to prove Robz wrong about Pirate Ship being useless, post your game here.

Current score: Robz 7 - 1 Pirate ship

Game 1 - theJester - Robz
Game 2 - Breezy D - Pirate Ship
Game 3 - shark_bait - Robz
Game 4 - TrojH - Robz
Game 5 - markusin - Robz
Game 6 - luser - Robz
Game 7 - Kingzog3 - Robz
Game 8 - Silverspawn - Robz
Game 9 - AndrewisFTTW - Under review
Game 10 - SheCantSayNo - Under review
Game 11 - luser - Under review
Game 12 - kylar - Under review


Many have tried, many have failed. Post your winning Pirate Ship strategy here and let the experts debate it!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:50:49 pm by AndrewisFTTW »
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

Robz888

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 01:01:17 am »
+13

BRING IT.
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theJester

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 08:53:43 am »
0

I'm not an expert player, and probably both myself and my opponent made a number of mistakes, but I'd like a opinion on this kingdom:


Code: [Select]
Cellar, Cutpurse, Pirate Ship, Scout, Bandit Camp, Laboratory, Stables, Treasury, Wharf, Bank
So, we have excellent draw with no treasure trashing (and no trashing at all) and weak virtual coin (Cutpurse and Treasury): a reasonable board for Pirate Ship, I believe. Both me and opponent went for it, although I was luckier in my hits and thus won. Log is here: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140508/log.513eb79ae4b0da6e3de08f09.1399559075138.txt

Any alternate strategies here, ones that exclude Pirate Ship? Wharf+Bank seems strong, but Pirate Ship should be great counter to it, no?
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Awaclus

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2014, 09:09:47 am »
0

I'm not an expert player, and probably both myself and my opponent made a number of mistakes, but I'd like a opinion on this kingdom:


Code: [Select]
Cellar, Cutpurse, Pirate Ship, Scout, Bandit Camp, Laboratory, Stables, Treasury, Wharf, Bank
So, we have excellent draw with no treasure trashing (and no trashing at all) and weak virtual coin (Cutpurse and Treasury): a reasonable board for Pirate Ship, I believe. Both me and opponent went for it, although I was luckier in my hits and thus won. Log is here: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140508/log.513eb79ae4b0da6e3de08f09.1399559075138.txt

Any alternate strategies here, ones that exclude Pirate Ship? Wharf+Bank seems strong, but Pirate Ship should be great counter to it, no?
Bandit Camp is a pretty strong virtual coin card.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 09:13:01 am »
+1

Any alternate strategies here, ones that exclude Pirate Ship? Wharf+Bank seems strong, but Pirate Ship should be great counter to it, no?

Simple Bandit Camp/Wharf can easily beat any Pirate Ship thing here. The trashing from Pirate ship is quite helpful to this deck and the Spoils are eventually Pirate proof because you just play them the same turn that you gain them. You have a nice 5/2 here, your turn 4 buy should be another Wharf or Bandit Camp instead of the Pirate Ship.
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KingZog3

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2014, 11:03:59 am »
+4

No Copper trashing is not a reason to go for PS. In fact, it's a reason not to go for PS.
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Robz888

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2014, 11:07:27 am »
0

I'm not an expert player, and probably both myself and my opponent made a number of mistakes, but I'd like a opinion on this kingdom:


Code: [Select]
Cellar, Cutpurse, Pirate Ship, Scout, Bandit Camp, Laboratory, Stables, Treasury, Wharf, Bank
So, we have excellent draw with no treasure trashing (and no trashing at all) and weak virtual coin (Cutpurse and Treasury): a reasonable board for Pirate Ship, I believe. Both me and opponent went for it, although I was luckier in my hits and thus won. Log is here: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140508/log.513eb79ae4b0da6e3de08f09.1399559075138.txt

Any alternate strategies here, ones that exclude Pirate Ship? Wharf+Bank seems strong, but Pirate Ship should be great counter to it, no?

Pirate Ship easily crushed by semi-virtual coin from Bandit Camp and coin cantrips in form of Treasury. Those are pricey cards, but you have all the time in the world if your opponent buys Pirate Ship.

Open Cutpurse/Silver, and you might not even ever have to buy another Silver (probably just one more), so, good luck Mr. Pirate Ship.
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markusin

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 11:40:27 am »
+3

Seeing players discredited the worth of PS before Robz has got me thinking that there should be a screening process. A claim that PS was useful must first pass through group of high level judges. Only if the judges deem it possible that PS was useful does Robz give his argument against it.
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Awaclus

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2014, 11:51:33 am »
+6

Seeing players discredited the worth of PS before Robz has got me thinking that there should be a screening process. A claim that PS was useful must first pass through group of high level judges. Only if the judges deem it possible that PS was useful does Robz give his argument against it.
This would make a good reality TV show.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 11:59:24 am »
+11

Seeing players discredited the worth of PS before Robz has got me thinking that there should be a screening process. A claim that PS was useful must first pass through group of high level judges. Only if the judges deem it possible that PS was useful does Robz give his argument against it.
This would make a good really niche reality TV show that would be cancelled partway through its first season.

Fixed that for you.




That said, I would totally watch it.
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markusin

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 12:26:40 pm »
+7

Seeing players discredited the worth of PS before Robz has got me thinking that there should be a screening process. A claim that PS was useful must first pass through group of high level judges. Only if the judges deem it possible that PS was useful does Robz give his argument against it.
This would make a good really niche reality TV show that would be cancelled partway through its first season.

Fixed that for you.




That said, I would totally watch it.
It would be one of those shows with a cult following. The fans would search the internet for the entire series once it got canceled, convinced it was the best show ever but taken away before its time.
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Breezy D

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 01:13:26 pm »
+2

I submit this game to the panel. I played it with Gamesou during Gokodom II. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9312.msg289773#msg289773)

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130906/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1378479819785.txt



Code: [Select]
Scrying Pool, Menagerie, Farming Village, Mining Village, Moneylender, Pirate Ship, Wandering Minstrel, Embassy, Mine, Stables

I started off strong with BM Embassy and then after 4 provinces, all my economy had been destroyed by a barrage of pirate ships.

At the time, I hadn't realized what was happening till it was too late. But in retrospect, I still don't know what I'd do differently. Maybe bought coppers instead of estates and hope to pick up a few duchies along the way.

The real challenge seemed to be lack of +buys.

What do others think?


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shark_bait

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2014, 01:58:06 pm »
+2

Yes, the challenge is the lack of +Buy.  And I do believe you are right that you can't ignore Pirate ship. 

One interesting sidenote about this kingdom is that if both players aggressively pursue Moneylender trashing in Pirate Ships one may buy an Embassy putting a Silver into the opponents deck, use Scrying Pool to find said Silver and then play Pirate ship to get the token.  This could be viable if players trashed so much of their Copper resulting in low value Pirate Ships.
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2014, 02:02:40 pm »
0

The lack of +buy goes hand in hand with the lack of any alternative economy. There's no +coin in this deck except for mining village and this is only temporary, so is moneylender with the side effect that you're going to run out of copper soon.

I'm even doubting if you can "just" play potion here ...
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2014, 02:09:51 pm »
+3

We should keep score:

Robz 1 - 0 Pirate Ship
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Awaclus

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2014, 02:11:39 pm »
0

I submit this game to the panel. I played it with Gamesou during Gokodom II. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9312.msg289773#msg289773)
I think that Pirate Ship is actually good on this board. You don't want to play big money against it (since the engine cycles so fast with so little effort here, the engine player can buy many Pirate Ships and play them often to wreck your economy, as demonstrated by the log), and if you go for the engine, your possible payloads are PS, Mine and Treasure cards, out of which Treasure cards and Mine are weak against PS.
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KingZog3

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2014, 02:12:41 pm »
0

We should keep score:

Robz 1 - 0 Pirate Ship

I think PS wins a point though for the kingdom Breezy just posted. PS has an important role in attacking the other persons treasure.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2014, 02:16:28 pm »
0

We should keep score:

Robz 1 - 0 Pirate Ship

I think PS wins a point though for the kingdom Breezy just posted. PS has an important role in attacking the other persons treasure.

Robz should have some input first. And you're biased, ya goddamn pirate!
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MVPs: M97
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Robz888

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2014, 04:13:57 pm »
0

I submit this game to the panel. I played it with Gamesou during Gokodom II. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9312.msg289773#msg289773)

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130906/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1378479819785.txt



Code: [Select]
Scrying Pool, Menagerie, Farming Village, Mining Village, Moneylender, Pirate Ship, Wandering Minstrel, Embassy, Mine, Stables

I started off strong with BM Embassy and then after 4 provinces, all my economy had been destroyed by a barrage of pirate ships.

At the time, I hadn't realized what was happening till it was too late. But in retrospect, I still don't know what I'd do differently. Maybe bought coppers instead of estates and hope to pick up a few duchies along the way.

The real challenge seemed to be lack of +buys.

What do others think?

My first reaction is that Embassy BM can win quickly enough here, but Pirate Ship definitely has a chance. Okay, I'm following your log. Why did you buy nothing on Turn 6?

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Robz888

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2014, 04:15:02 pm »
0

And again on Turn 9. Is that just an error with the log?
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Robz888

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2014, 04:19:25 pm »
0

You also buy a late game Farming Village that should absolutely be a Mining Village.

If I'm reading things correctly, you had two opportunities on Turns 6 and 9 to buy more Treasure, and instead did nothing. I also think you turned for Estates way too early. You never get a second Embassy...

So, I'm far from convinced--based on your log--that Pirate Ship beats BM Embassy.
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amalloy

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2014, 04:20:49 pm »
+3

And again on Turn 9. Is that just an error with the log?

On turns 6 and 9 he had only two Coppers in hand.
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Robz888

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2014, 04:31:53 pm »
0

And again on Turn 9. Is that just an error with the log?

On turns 6 and 9 he had only two Coppers in hand.

Shoot, you're right. I was thinking the hand he drew was his hand that turn. Hmm.
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Robz888

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2014, 04:32:31 pm »
0

I would have to test this set. Can't right now though.
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liopoil

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2014, 05:11:28 pm »
0

but these are only boards where people think Pirate ship is good! Surely to be fair we should also post the one's where it is obviously bad, i.e., most of them.
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amalloy

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2014, 05:25:37 pm »
+1

And again on Turn 9. Is that just an error with the log?

On turns 6 and 9 he had only two Coppers in hand.

Funnily, I remember one of my earliest interactions with Robz on this forum, which was him making this very same mistake: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9217.msg284255#msg284255. Some things never change, I guess.
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Breezy D

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2014, 06:02:45 pm »
0

I'm glad amalloy caught that I only had 2 coppers in hand those turns. I was stumped why I didn't buy anything when I had 6 coins.

One advantage of farming village over mining village is that it let's you sift through green cards to your next treasure or embassy as in T21. The other occasions when I had farming village in hand, I only had one copper. I could have bought a silver that turn instead of a copper.

Having a second embassy would have been nice, but I'm not sure that there was time to get it. Maybe instead of province in T5. I also bought a province on T8.

Had I bought a gold or embassy on T5 or T8, I would have more economy for T9 where I'd bought nothing & T12 + T14 where I'd bought estates. However as of T14, Gamesou's assault begins and treasures start to get trashed.

It's been a while since this game and I think  I've improved in the meantime but I'm not sure I could do tons better now with big money. I think this is a board where PS shines.







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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2014, 06:18:19 pm »
+1

but these are only boards where people think Pirate ship is good! Surely to be fair we should also post the one's where it is obviously bad, i.e., most of them.

This is more about posting a board where you think Pirate Ship is a good option and Robz tries to prove you wrong.
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MVPs: M97
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silverspawn

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2014, 06:32:52 pm »
+1

you need these in a game:

-> chapel
-> pirate ship
-> throne room
-> no virtual coin of any kind
-> no way to get spoils
-> no +action

and you can't ignore pirate ship. i've had a game that came very close to that... didn't save the log though. I believe if there really is a game that meets all conditions and both players know what they're doing, it's a stalemate.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 06:34:09 pm by silverspawn »
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amalloy

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2014, 06:38:25 pm »
+1

you need these in a game:

-> chapel
-> pirate ship
-> throne room
-> no virtual coin of any kind
-> no way to get spoils
-> no +action

and you can't ignore pirate ship. i've had a game that came very close to that... didn't save the log though. I believe if there really is a game that meets all conditions and both players know what they're doing, it's a stalemate.

Looking through your history for games that come close to this, I found an entertaining game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20130609/log.5182cd42e4b05e4ebc88aeed.1370821839686.txt#2-12
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shark_bait

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2014, 06:39:30 pm »
0



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Moat, University, Woodcutter, Pirate Ship, Salvager, Smithy, Thief, Harvest, Fairgrounds
Obligatory post.  His Ships were more interested in Potions that any amount of precious metal.... hits my Potion on Turns 3, 8, 11 and 15.  Kinda needed to buy Universities for my engine.
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Kirian

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2014, 07:29:53 pm »
0

Obligatory post.  His Ships were more interested in Potions that any amount of precious metal.... hits my Potion on Turns 3, 8, 11 and 15.  Kinda needed to buy Universities for my engine.

Like any other card, Pirate Ship is at its best when it hits exactly the right things.  I don't think that makes PS good here though.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2014, 02:16:29 am »
+1

You also buy a late game Farming Village that should absolutely be a Mining Village.

If I'm reading things correctly, you had two opportunities on Turns 6 and 9 to buy more Treasure, and instead did nothing. I also think you turned for Estates way too early. You never get a second Embassy...

So, I'm far from convinced--based on your log--that Pirate Ship beats BM Embassy.

You found no fault at all with gamesou's play? I'm certain that he could have set up the Pirate Ship engine at least a couple of turns faster.
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TrojH

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2014, 10:18:42 am »
0

Here's one to add to the list:



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Fool's Gold, Conspirator, Ironworks, Pirate Ship, Hunting Party, Stables, Wharf, Hoard, King's Court
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140423/log.52fd2ddde4b04fb9429416b5.1398273206817.txt

This was from a few weeks ago, so my memories may not be entirely accurate. Still, here goes:

My original plan on this board was a Conspirator engine. No Fool's Golds, no Pirate Ships. But when my opponent started grabbing Fool's Golds, I decided to switch tactics; I grabbed some Pirate Ships to go after his Fool's Golds. (I know, I know. Dumb move.)

My opponent was also interested in Pirate Ships. In fact, he was able to power up his Pirate Ships to a higher level than mine (5 coins versus 4), even though I never touched the Fool's Golds. But those Pirate Ships didn't help him; I won easily. My engine came together, I started grabbing Provinces, and I won on a 3-pile ending. (Conspirators, Ironworks, and Pirate Ships.)

Now, Robz, I know you'll say I should've stayed away from the Pirate Ships altogether. But I'm curious as to what you would've done instead. Would you have competed for the Fool's Golds? Would you have let him grab them all, and just focused on the engine? Given your opponent's interest in Fool's Golds, how would you have played this board?

Oh yeah, one more thing: apparently, I never bought a Wharf during this game. I don't know why. I must've switched off my brain, or something.
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gamesou

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2014, 11:21:49 am »
+3

When I saw the thread, I immediately thought about my Gokodom II game against Breezy D, and then discovered that it has already been mentioned  :o
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2014, 11:46:07 am »
+5

Quote
Now, Robz, I know you'll say I should've stayed away from the Pirate Ships altogether. But I'm curious as to what you would've done instead. Would you have competed for the Fool's Golds? Would you have let him grab them all, and just focused on the engine? Given your opponent's interest in Fool's Golds, how would you have played this board?

I'm Robz, and I'm convinced that Chapel into KC/wharf/conspirator will crush anything involving pirate ship or fools gold here.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2014, 12:22:15 pm »
+1


Code: [Select]
Chapel, Fool's Gold, Conspirator, Ironworks, Pirate Ship, Hunting Party, Stables, Wharf, Hoard, King's Court
Maybe if we knock it up another notch.

Bam!


Code: [Select]
Duchess, Fool's Gold, Chancellor, Village, Woodcutter, Pirate Ship, Festival, Knights, Mint, King's Court
Log: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20130525/log.50a208ebe4b0058ff63ee808.1369522493514.txt

This is a pretty old game, and I don't know how optimal our play was. Just like TrojH's game, it has Fool's Gold, Pirate Ship, and King's Court. But here, there's also Knights. Fool's Gold and King's Court are safe from Knights, but not much else is safe. KC/Knights is particularly frustrating as it can allow 1 knight to trash 3 others. Not much draw here either.

Here, I open with Pirate Ship hoping to take away my opponent's FGs and I figure they'll become devastating once they are KC'ed. My opponent responds by getting Mint to trash a bunch of treasure. The game no doubt degenerates into a long Knight war.

I'm thinking this would have been a clear rush for FG had it not been for Pirate Ship. 
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2014, 03:28:46 pm »
0

Quote
Now, Robz, I know you'll say I should've stayed away from the Pirate Ships altogether. But I'm curious as to what you would've done instead. Would you have competed for the Fool's Golds? Would you have let him grab them all, and just focused on the engine? Given your opponent's interest in Fool's Golds, how would you have played this board?

I'm Robz, and I'm convinced that Chapel into KC/wharf/conspirator will crush anything involving pirate ship or fools gold here.

But if your opponent goes for Fools Gold, grab a Pirate ship and trash all his treasure with KC+PS.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2014, 03:31:36 pm »
0

Quote
Now, Robz, I know you'll say I should've stayed away from the Pirate Ships altogether. But I'm curious as to what you would've done instead. Would you have competed for the Fool's Golds? Would you have let him grab them all, and just focused on the engine? Given your opponent's interest in Fool's Golds, how would you have played this board?

I'm Robz, and I'm convinced that Chapel into KC/wharf/conspirator will crush anything involving pirate ship or fools gold here.

But if your opponent goes for Fools Gold, grab a Pirate ship and trash all his treasure with KC+PS.

But that's one KC less to use on Conspirators. KC+PS will still win you the game if your opponent goes for FG though.

Edit: JC->KC
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 03:36:10 pm by markusin »
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2014, 04:40:33 pm »
0

Quote
Now, Robz, I know you'll say I should've stayed away from the Pirate Ships altogether. But I'm curious as to what you would've done instead. Would you have competed for the Fool's Golds? Would you have let him grab them all, and just focused on the engine? Given your opponent's interest in Fool's Golds, how would you have played this board?

I'm Robz, and I'm convinced that Chapel into KC/wharf/conspirator will crush anything involving pirate ship or fools gold here.

But if your opponent goes for Fools Gold, grab a Pirate ship and trash all his treasure with KC+PS.

it's not necssary, you can just ignore him and do your own thing. with KC and Wharf, you can easily set up turns where you roflcourt through all of your conspirators.
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luser

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2014, 05:51:08 pm »
0



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Moneylender, Pirate Ship, Smithy, Throne Room, Worker's Village, Band of Misfits, Wharf, Hunting Grounds, King's Court
Rob, could you win in this infamous kingdom versus pirate ship?
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2014, 05:56:51 pm »
0



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Moneylender, Pirate Ship, Smithy, Throne Room, Worker's Village, Band of Misfits, Wharf, Hunting Grounds, King's Court
Rob, could you win in this infamous kingdom versus pirate ship?

This is such an obvious engine board that Pirate Ship wouldn't have time to get good.  Your deck would be mostly actions, so if they happen to trash one of your golds (which is unlikely) it's no big deal, you're going to be drawing your deck in no time anyway.

(edit: fixed a typo)
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

luser

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2014, 06:19:56 pm »
0


Rob, could you win in this infamous kingdom versus pirate ship?

This is such an obvious engine board that Pirate Ship wouldn't have time to get good.  Your deck would be mostly actions, so if they happen to trash one of your golds (which is unlikely) it's no big deal, you're going to be drawing your deck in no time anyway.

(edit: fixed a typo)

No you would lose quite badly here.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2014, 06:42:44 pm »
0

Should we wait for Robz or should I continue to keep score?
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2014, 07:08:51 pm »
0

Should we wait for Robz or should I continue to keep score?

You snooze you lose. Keep scoring!
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2014, 08:04:55 pm »
0

Should we wait for Robz or should I continue to keep score?

You snooze you lose. Keep scoring!
Come now, I don't think we even gave him 24 hours here.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2014, 03:11:20 pm »
+1



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Moneylender, Pirate Ship, Smithy, Throne Room, Worker's Village, Band of Misfits, Wharf, Hunting Grounds, King's Court
Rob, could you win in this infamous kingdom versus pirate ship?

This is such an obvious engine board that Pirate Ship wouldn't have time to get good.  Your deck would be mostly actions, so if they happen to trash one of your golds (which is unlikely) it's no big deal, you're going to be drawing your deck in no time anyway.

(edit: fixed a typo)

You absolutely do not want to buy Pirate Ship here.

You want to buy Band of Misfits and play it as Pirate Ship.  ;D
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2014, 03:25:49 pm »
0

You got some catching up to do Robz.

EDIT: I updated the scoring in the original post. There are still three games awaiting input from Robz.

EDIT #2: I added links to the original posts of the games so you don't have to go scrolling to find them.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 03:46:19 pm by AndrewisFTTW »
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luser

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2014, 07:39:57 pm »
0



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Moneylender, Pirate Ship, Smithy, Throne Room, Worker's Village, Band of Misfits, Wharf, Hunting Grounds, King's Court
Rob, could you win in this infamous kingdom versus pirate ship?

This is such an obvious engine board that Pirate Ship wouldn't have time to get good.  Your deck would be mostly actions, so if they happen to trash one of your golds (which is unlikely) it's no big deal, you're going to be drawing your deck in no time anyway.

(edit: fixed a typo)

You absolutely do not want to buy Pirate Ship here.

You want to buy Band of Misfits and play it as Pirate Ship.  ;D
Yes, this is board that leck, top player on casual leaderboard uses againist unsuspecting players, using pirate ship (BoM) is key here, see his logs

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/logsearch?p1name=leck&p1score=any&p2name=&startdate=08%2F05%2F2012&enddate=05%2F16%2F2014&supply=&nonsupply=&rating=casual&pcount=2&colony=any&bot=false&shelters=any&guest=false&minturns=&maxturns=&quit=false&resign=any&limit=20&submitted=true&offset=0

For buying pirate ship itself I would replace band of misfits with quarry.
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KingZog3

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2014, 09:59:24 am »
0

Pirate Ship won me the game, I'm pretty sure. You can't avoid it I don't think. Bane was Menagerie



Code: [Select]
Scrying Pool, Forager, Great Hall, Menagerie, Pirate Ship, Quarry, Silk Road, Young Witch, Explorer, Laboratory, Forge

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140522/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1400767049026.txt
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silverspawn

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2014, 10:07:31 am »
+1

Pirate Ship won me the game, I'm pretty sure. You can't avoid it I don't think. Bane was Menagerie



Code: [Select]
Scrying Pool, Forager, Great Hall, Menagerie, Pirate Ship, Quarry, Silk Road, Young Witch, Explorer, Laboratory, Forge

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140522/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1400767049026.txt

uhhhhhhhhhhh really? looking at this board, my feeling is that you can easily trim your deck down to lots of action cards and 2 quarries, and get provinces via forge. the absence of +actions makes it harder, but you can still get a province 2 of 3 turns, if you do it like this

t1: play explorer, gain silver, buy 5$
t2: forge 5$ and silver into a province, buy 5$
t3: forge 5$ and 3$ into a province, buy 3$

and once the provinces pile runs low, you can sacrifice your explorer and some other early bought carsd to gain the last provicnes. that's not the fastest thing in the world, but it should beat pirate ship easily.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 08:01:33 am by silverspawn »
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2014, 10:10:48 am »
0

Pirate Ship was very much ignorable here.
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KingZog3

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2014, 11:03:03 pm »
0

Pirate Ship was very much ignorable here.

My opponent bought Quarry and then I trashed it that very turn. I dunno, perhaps.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2014, 01:44:55 pm »
+1

let me show all of you how it's done  8)



Code: [Select]
Fool's Gold, Forager, Masterpiece, Trade Route, Island, Pirate Ship, Duke, Mystic, Royal Seal, Possession
viewer

Now, I'm pretty sure this is a board where you really can't get around pirate ship. Yes, there is mystic, but there is also fools gold. If you go mystic, the pirate ship player can just mass fg, which is better than mystic. If you contest fg, you feed his pirate ship and your fg's are going to be really useless. and note that mystics aren't even that great because it's a duchy/duke slog

maybe something with masterpiece works... that's the only thing I could see beating pirate ship.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 01:46:33 pm by silverspawn »
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2014, 04:54:07 pm »
0

let me show all of you how it's done  8)



Code: [Select]
Fool's Gold, Forager, Masterpiece, Trade Route, Island, Pirate Ship, Duke, Mystic, Royal Seal, Possession
viewer

Now, I'm pretty sure this is a board where you really can't get around pirate ship. Yes, there is mystic, but there is also fools gold. If you go mystic, the pirate ship player can just mass fg, which is better than mystic. If you contest fg, you feed his pirate ship and your fg's are going to be really useless. and note that mystics aren't even that great because it's a duchy/duke slog

maybe something with masterpiece works... that's the only thing I could see beating pirate ship.
That's an interesting one. My thinking here is you get a few Pirate Ships and spread them out with a good Masterpiece overpay, then hit the Duchies/Dukes when you don't need to attack with pirate ship. Certainly, not needing to hit $8 with Duchy/Duke helps a lot.

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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2014, 05:01:32 pm »
0

Since Robz isn't posting here anymore, I'll just keep score based on popular opinion.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2014, 05:33:40 pm »
+1

let me show all of you how it's done  8)



Code: [Select]
Fool's Gold, Forager, Masterpiece, Trade Route, Island, Pirate Ship, Duke, Mystic, Royal Seal, Possession
viewer

Now, I'm pretty sure this is a board where you really can't get around pirate ship. Yes, there is mystic, but there is also fools gold. If you go mystic, the pirate ship player can just mass fg, which is better than mystic. If you contest fg, you feed his pirate ship and your fg's are going to be really useless. and note that mystics aren't even that great because it's a duchy/duke slog

maybe something with masterpiece works... that's the only thing I could see beating pirate ship.
That's an interesting one. My thinking here is you get a few Pirate Ships and spread them out with a good Masterpiece overpay, then hit the Duchies/Dukes when you don't need to attack with pirate ship. Certainly, not needing to hit $8 with Duchy/Duke helps a lot.

Interestingly, I'm not sure this rock-paper-scissors scenario counts. The deck without Pirate Ship still beats the deck with Pirate Ship. The Pirate Ship deck beats the Fools Gold deck, but you don't go for the Fools Gold deck because there is Pirate Ship.

(Additionally, I'm not 100% convinced the Fools Gold deck cant beat the PS deck anyway.)
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2014, 05:35:16 pm »
0



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Moat, University, Woodcutter, Pirate Ship, Salvager, Smithy, Thief, Harvest, Fairgrounds
Obligatory post.  His Ships were more interested in Potions that any amount of precious metal.... hits my Potion on Turns 3, 8, 11 and 15.  Kinda needed to buy Universities for my engine.

There hasn't been a consensus on this one yet.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2014, 05:37:07 pm »
0



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Moat, University, Woodcutter, Pirate Ship, Salvager, Smithy, Thief, Harvest, Fairgrounds
Obligatory post.  His Ships were more interested in Potions that any amount of precious metal.... hits my Potion on Turns 3, 8, 11 and 15.  Kinda needed to buy Universities for my engine.

There hasn't been a consensus on this one yet.

There should be. Pirate Ship has no chance here. None whatsoever. I'll gladly accept the Copper trashing. At worst, I can gain Harvests and use them for money or feed them to my Salvager. I also have Beggar to undo whatever Pirate Ship does, although that will probably be needless.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2014, 05:38:04 pm »
0


Code: [Select]
Chapel, Fool's Gold, Conspirator, Ironworks, Pirate Ship, Hunting Party, Stables, Wharf, Hoard, King's Court
Maybe if we knock it up another notch.

Bam!


Code: [Select]
Duchess, Fool's Gold, Chancellor, Village, Woodcutter, Pirate Ship, Festival, Knights, Mint, King's Court
Log: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20130525/log.50a208ebe4b0058ff63ee808.1369522493514.txt

This is a pretty old game, and I don't know how optimal our play was. Just like TrojH's game, it has Fool's Gold, Pirate Ship, and King's Court. But here, there's also Knights. Fool's Gold and King's Court are safe from Knights, but not much else is safe. KC/Knights is particularly frustrating as it can allow 1 knight to trash 3 others. Not much draw here either.

Here, I open with Pirate Ship hoping to take away my opponent's FGs and I figure they'll become devastating once they are KC'ed. My opponent responds by getting Mint to trash a bunch of treasure. The game no doubt degenerates into a long Knight war.

I'm thinking this would have been a clear rush for FG had it not been for Pirate Ship.

This one hasn't been commented on at all, I don't think.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2014, 05:43:37 pm »
+3


Code: [Select]
Chapel, Fool's Gold, Conspirator, Ironworks, Pirate Ship, Hunting Party, Stables, Wharf, Hoard, King's Court
Maybe if we knock it up another notch.

Bam!


Code: [Select]
Duchess, Fool's Gold, Chancellor, Village, Woodcutter, Pirate Ship, Festival, Knights, Mint, King's Court
Log: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20130525/log.50a208ebe4b0058ff63ee808.1369522493514.txt

This is a pretty old game, and I don't know how optimal our play was. Just like TrojH's game, it has Fool's Gold, Pirate Ship, and King's Court. But here, there's also Knights. Fool's Gold and King's Court are safe from Knights, but not much else is safe. KC/Knights is particularly frustrating as it can allow 1 knight to trash 3 others. Not much draw here either.

Here, I open with Pirate Ship hoping to take away my opponent's FGs and I figure they'll become devastating once they are KC'ed. My opponent responds by getting Mint to trash a bunch of treasure. The game no doubt degenerates into a long Knight war.

I'm thinking this would have been a clear rush for FG had it not been for Pirate Ship.

This one hasn't been commented on at all, I don't think.

Why would you want to play Pirate Ship? You have Knights to King!
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silverspawn

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2014, 08:23:56 pm »
+1

Quote
Interestingly, I'm not sure this rock-paper-scissors scenario counts. The deck without Pirate Ship still beats the deck with Pirate Ship. The Pirate Ship deck beats the Fools Gold deck, but you don't go for the Fools Gold deck because there is Pirate Ship.

(Additionally, I'm not 100% convinced the Fools Gold deck cant beat the PS deck anyway.)

nono, there is no rock-paper-scissors scenario. you want to open forager/pirate ship, like i did, get a second forager and a second pirate ship, and if by that time your opponent has not picked up a pirate ship of his own, like it happened in my game, you go fools gold. if your opponent just went fools gold, he will lose, because your pirate ship will hit his fools gold, and you contested him, so he isn't going to have many, and your pirate ships which will always hit will win the game. if your opponent went mystics he will lose, because you have lots of fg in a small deck. if your opponent went masterpiece, he will lose, because you have lots of fg in a small deck. if your opponent went pirate ship of his own, well, then it doesn't matter, because both sides have pirate ship. in any case, pirate ship wins.

i completely agree that pirate ship is bad in the other 2 kingdoms.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 08:29:22 pm by silverspawn »
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markusin

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2014, 12:10:27 am »
+1


Code: [Select]
Chapel, Fool's Gold, Conspirator, Ironworks, Pirate Ship, Hunting Party, Stables, Wharf, Hoard, King's Court
Maybe if we knock it up another notch.

Bam!


Code: [Select]
Duchess, Fool's Gold, Chancellor, Village, Woodcutter, Pirate Ship, Festival, Knights, Mint, King's Court
Log: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20130525/log.50a208ebe4b0058ff63ee808.1369522493514.txt

This is a pretty old game, and I don't know how optimal our play was. Just like TrojH's game, it has Fool's Gold, Pirate Ship, and King's Court. But here, there's also Knights. Fool's Gold and King's Court are safe from Knights, but not much else is safe. KC/Knights is particularly frustrating as it can allow 1 knight to trash 3 others. Not much draw here either.

Here, I open with Pirate Ship hoping to take away my opponent's FGs and I figure they'll become devastating once they are KC'ed. My opponent responds by getting Mint to trash a bunch of treasure. The game no doubt degenerates into a long Knight war.

I'm thinking this would have been a clear rush for FG had it not been for Pirate Ship.

This one hasn't been commented on at all, I don't think.

Why would you want to play Pirate Ship? You have Knights to king!
The knights were kinged, and eventually they trashed each other. You want to have some way to win in the aftermath. FG is a good option, as it's safe from knights and helps you get to KC and knights fast in the first place. This is where the Pirate ship can take advantage of the situation. Also note that you still keep the pirate ship tokens even if the pirate ships are trashed.
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SCSN

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2014, 02:16:09 am »
+2

Quote
Interestingly, I'm not sure this rock-paper-scissors scenario counts. The deck without Pirate Ship still beats the deck with Pirate Ship. The Pirate Ship deck beats the Fools Gold deck, but you don't go for the Fools Gold deck because there is Pirate Ship.

(Additionally, I'm not 100% convinced the Fools Gold deck cant beat the PS deck anyway.)

nono, there is no rock-paper-scissors scenario. you want to open forager/pirate ship, like i did, get a second forager and a second pirate ship, and if by that time your opponent has not picked up a pirate ship of his own, like it happened in my game, you go fools gold. if your opponent just went fools gold, he will lose, because your pirate ship will hit his fools gold, and you contested him, so he isn't going to have many, and your pirate ships which will always hit will win the game. if your opponent went mystics he will lose, because you have lots of fg in a small deck. if your opponent went masterpiece, he will lose, because you have lots of fg in a small deck. if your opponent went pirate ship of his own, well, then it doesn't matter, because both sides have pirate ship. in any case, pirate ship wins.

i completely agree that pirate ship is bad in the other 2 kingdoms.

I'd have agreed had Duke been something silly like Counting House, but with Duke on board Fool's Gold should be ignored entirely and a Pirate Ship/Forager open sounds awfully slow. Opening Silver/Silver, getting Duchy on 5 and Masterpiece on 6-7 (probably twice before switching to Duchy entirely?) should win here.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 02:17:25 am by SheCantSayNo »
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2014, 11:31:31 pm »
0

Got one!



Code: [Select]
Doctor, Fortune Teller, Feodum, Mining Village, Pirate Ship, Cache, Pillage, Tactician, Altar, Hunting Grounds

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140528/log.516ddc20e4b082c74d7cbc04.1401333006670.txt

Double tac/pirate ship. Seriously.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #65 on: May 29, 2014, 12:00:02 pm »
0

Got one!



Code: [Select]
Doctor, Fortune Teller, Feodum, Mining Village, Pirate Ship, Cache, Pillage, Tactician, Altar, Hunting Grounds

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140528/log.516ddc20e4b082c74d7cbc04.1401333006670.txt

Double tac/pirate ship. Seriously.

no... you can easily trash coppers with doc and you can build a double tac/mv/ft engine that hits 8$ each turn without much trouble
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2014, 12:27:59 pm »
0

You would need 8 fortune tellers to hit $16 unless you're trashing mining villages, but then you wouldn't have enough actions for all the fortune tellers. If you're doing double tac here I would think you need to double province every turn.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2014, 12:31:18 pm »
0

Got one!



Code: [Select]
Doctor, Fortune Teller, Feodum, Mining Village, Pirate Ship, Cache, Pillage, Tactician, Altar, Hunting Grounds

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140528/log.516ddc20e4b082c74d7cbc04.1401333006670.txt

Double tac/pirate ship. Seriously.

The double Tac Pirate Ship plan isn't awful, but I think the problem here is that your opponent welcomes your help in trashing his starting Coppers. I think you could setup some sort of thing with Altar, where you Altar your crap cards into Pillages, play Pillage, draw up the Spoils with Hunting Grounds, play them, repeat. Or he can just do his own Tac thing with Fortune Tellers, Mining Villages, Altar. A savvy player can do a lot of cool gain-stuff tricks here with the Altar/Doctor, Hunting Grounds, possibly even Feodum.

Yeah, I don't hold out much hope for the Pirate Ship guy here, as always. A key test for me is, "Do I have to buy Silver--a lot of Silvers, individually, one at time?" The answer here is clearly no.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2014, 12:41:57 pm »
0

I would love to see that in action because I have no idea where to begin on something like that.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2014, 01:03:11 pm »
0

Why is it that the one time Pirate Ship saved my life the log didn't get saved?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2014, 02:41:56 pm »
0

Quote
You would need 8 fortune tellers to hit $16 unless you're trashing mining villages, but then you wouldn't have enough actions for all the fortune tellers. If you're doing double tac here I would think you need to double province every turn.
- why? just get to 4 ft, 3 mv and play ft/mv/ft/mv/ft/mv/ft/tac, and if you have 2 coppers left in your deck, you can double province on your last turn
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SCSN

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2014, 03:32:39 am »
+3



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Lookout, Mining Village, Pirate Ship, Remake, Butcher, Outpost, Pillage, Royal Seal, Stables
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140611/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1402533568897.txt
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2014, 04:26:19 pm »
+3

You really think so? I don't know, man. I'd think Butcher, Mining Village and Pillage could get it done without the Ship. There's no +buy, so what benefit are you getting from PS that trumps other available virtual coin?
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2014, 08:43:14 pm »
+1

You really think so? I don't know, man. I'd think Butcher, Mining Village and Pillage could get it done without the Ship. There's no +buy, so what benefit are you getting from PS that trumps other available virtual coin?

Turns off enemy Stables. Whatever deck you want isn't going to have many treasures anyways though...but if you don't get PS I can see Stables being a big problem. I think it's a scenario where you would like to get Stables, but the threat of Pirate Ship makes it not worth it.

I think MV-Butcher-Pillage sounds pretty competitive too though, maybe pick up 1 Remake to get going early and trash it to the Butcher you'll get from it?
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SCSN

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #74 on: June 12, 2014, 09:24:00 pm »
+2

You really think so? I don't know, man. I'd think Butcher, Mining Village and Pillage could get it done without the Ship. There's no +buy, so what benefit are you getting from PS that trumps other available virtual coin?

For sure, in terms of economy Butcher is a terminal $2, Mining Village a one-shot $2 that costs $4 (can't replace itself), and Pillage a delayed one-shot $6 (can barely replace itself). You can't create a sustainable economy from that, as the gamelog illustrates.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2014, 11:31:27 am »
0

Requesting more discussion on SCSN's board and also this board:

Got one!



Code: [Select]
Doctor, Fortune Teller, Feodum, Mining Village, Pirate Ship, Cache, Pillage, Tactician, Altar, Hunting Grounds

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140528/log.516ddc20e4b082c74d7cbc04.1401333006670.txt

Double tac/pirate ship. Seriously.

The double Tac Pirate Ship plan isn't awful, but I think the problem here is that your opponent welcomes your help in trashing his starting Coppers. I think you could setup some sort of thing with Altar, where you Altar your crap cards into Pillages, play Pillage, draw up the Spoils with Hunting Grounds, play them, repeat. Or he can just do his own Tac thing with Fortune Tellers, Mining Villages, Altar. A savvy player can do a lot of cool gain-stuff tricks here with the Altar/Doctor, Hunting Grounds, possibly even Feodum.

Yeah, I don't hold out much hope for the Pirate Ship guy here, as always. A key test for me is, "Do I have to buy Silver--a lot of Silvers, individually, one at time?" The answer here is clearly no.
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dondon151

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2014, 01:39:40 pm »
+1

I'm pretty sure that Robz's suggestion of FT, MV, Altar, double Tac is slower than replacing the FTs with a PS or two.
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silverspawn

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2014, 02:37:29 pm »
+2

to me it seems like you can easily trash coppers fast enough to make pirate ship obsolete... i love that word  :P
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2014, 09:09:35 am »
+1

I just played this incredibly boring board vs HvBoedefeld:



Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Secret Chamber, Loan, Village, Workshop, Baron, Remake, Talisman, Golem, Border Village
We decided that best here is probably Baron BM, or maybe even straight BM.

But, I'm posting it here because I think if you replaced almost any of these cards with Pirate Ship, it would be almost necessary to go for Pirate Ship.
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KingZog3

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2014, 10:52:20 am »
0

I just played this incredibly boring board vs HvBoedefeld:



Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Secret Chamber, Loan, Village, Workshop, Baron, Remake, Talisman, Golem, Border Village
We decided that best here is probably Baron BM, or maybe even straight BM.

But, I'm posting it here because I think if you replaced almost any of these cards with Pirate Ship, it would be almost necessary to go for Pirate Ship.

You could try a Golem/baron Engine. But without Golem PS is for sure not good. Golem lets you play it a lot.
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liopoil

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #80 on: June 19, 2014, 11:07:43 am »
0

Something with golem, baron, and loan will probably beat pirate ship.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #81 on: June 19, 2014, 11:51:27 am »
0

Something with golem, baron, and loan will probably beat pirate ship.

Agreed. And workshop helps a lot since a bunch of parts are $4 and will fill you deck with non-treasure
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #82 on: June 19, 2014, 07:47:17 pm »
+1

Something with golem, baron, and loan will probably beat pirate ship.

Agreed. And workshop helps a lot since a bunch of parts are $4 and will fill you deck with non-treasure

I think you guys are missing the point. You need to hit 2 Barons with 2 Estates in hand to get to a Province. That's almost impossible to do consistently without Golem, and you're going to need quite a few Golems to do it consistently. I'm guessing if you replace Secret Chamber with Pirate Ship, a deck with PS beats Golem/Baron handily. I'll be in Outpost for a bit if anyone wants to try.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #83 on: June 19, 2014, 08:03:33 pm »
+1

liopoil and I just played a game, and I smoked him with PS 42-21 with 7 Provinces. There's just not enough draw for Baron+Golem, and I could easily get my PS to $4-5
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #84 on: June 19, 2014, 08:16:24 pm »
+1

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #85 on: June 19, 2014, 08:17:29 pm »
+1

Forgot to say that no log was created from last game.

We played a PS mirror and both ended up with worthless PSs and no treasure. liopoil followed it up with a Duchy/Estate rush, and I grabbed 2 Gold and a Silver and was able to sneak out 3 Provinces for the win. Here's the log.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #86 on: June 19, 2014, 08:33:44 pm »
+2

I am very skeptical that Golem has any role to play in the above game or its variants. There is no draw, or even strong terminals. Golem/Baron sounds like an awful nombo. How will you hit Estates? You have no draw.

I think I have a decent chance against Pirate Ship if you give me Secret Chamber and Workshop/Talisman to Silver flood. Otherwise... yeah, this is one of the weakest boards ever, and I think the Ship gets it.

(Funny enough, if you replace any of the cards with any $7 card, even $7 Curse, Pirate Ship is obsoleted. I will just Remake up the deck!)
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #87 on: June 19, 2014, 08:41:15 pm »
+1

I am very skeptical that Golem has any role to play in the above game or its variants. There is no draw, or even strong terminals. Golem/Baron sounds like an awful nombo. How will you hit Estates? You have no draw.

I think I have a decent chance against Pirate Ship if you give me Secret Chamber and Workshop/Talisman to Silver flood. Otherwise... yeah, this is one of the weakest boards ever, and I think the Ship gets it.

(Funny enough, if you replace any of the cards with any $7 card, even $7 Curse, Pirate Ship is obsoleted. I will just Remake up the deck!)
yeah, schneau and I figured that out. PS crushed my golem strategy, and then when we both went for pirate ship... it didn't work. Pirate ship could actually be ignorable, you just have to prioritize trashing everything, and then if your opponent didn't trash everything, you go for pirate ship. If you both trashed everything, now neither of you have anything in your deck, so you either build back up, getting treasures, or rush the duchies with remake. If one player tries to build an economy back up it is possible that you could then spam pirate ship to knock out the few treasures they have.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 08:42:35 pm by liopoil »
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #88 on: June 19, 2014, 09:23:26 pm »
0

Sorry to be a party pooper but kingdoms with PS only please! Thanks!
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #89 on: June 19, 2014, 09:46:03 pm »
+1

Sorry to be a party pooper but kingdoms with PS only please! Thanks!

He said replace a card with PS. He could have made a kingdom, played a bot and posted it, but he just grabbed to log and kingdom. Same thing.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #90 on: June 19, 2014, 10:16:26 pm »
0

Sorry to be a party pooper but kingdoms with PS only please! Thanks!

He said replace a card with PS. He could have made a kingdom, played a bot and posted it, but he just grabbed to log and kingdom. Same thing.

Yeah but no. The board changes depending on which card you take out so it's not analyzing one specific board.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #91 on: June 25, 2014, 03:24:07 pm »
0



Code: [Select]
Apothecary, Scrying Pool, Mining Village, Pirate Ship, City, Laboratory, Mandarin, Tactician, Harem, King's Court
So what you do here versus double tactician kinged pirate ship? Courted mandarins?
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silverspawn

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #92 on: June 25, 2014, 03:35:41 pm »
+1

So what you do here versus double tactician kinged pirate ship? Courted mandarins?
yes
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2014, 03:36:21 pm »
0



Code: [Select]
Apothecary, Scrying Pool, Mining Village, Pirate Ship, City, Laboratory, Mandarin, Tactician, Harem, King's Court
So what you do here versus double tactician kinged pirate ship? Courted mandarins?

Yeah. I think you can Court your Mandarin, put back Actions, and then Scrying Pool them back up. It's a bit wonky, but lack of quality plus buy limits what Pirate Ship guy can do anyway, does it not? You don't need your Treasures, in fact you're better off rid of them. Losing them speeds up you acquiring the kind of deck you want here.
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markusin

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2014, 03:45:43 pm »
+1

Wow, this challenge really helps remind you of all the things you can do without treasure.

You can totally do a Mandarin-KC thing on the boars above, with support from Tactician, Scrying pool, and a whole bunch of +action cards. As Robz always says, you'd welcome the copper trashing.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2014, 06:11:02 pm »
+1

You might not like an early potion thrashing though.
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luser

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2014, 09:51:05 pm »
0

Wow, this challenge really helps remind you of all the things you can do without treasure.

You can totally do a Mandarin-KC thing on the boars above, with support from Tactician, Scrying pool, and a whole bunch of +action cards. As Robz always says, you'd welcome the copper trashing.

You could but it does not mean it is good idea. You have problem that you need too many expensive cards for that strategy that switching to pirate ship will outrace it. And of course you do not open a pirate ship but potion/silver for apothecaries to reach 7 and do not play ship unless kinged.
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kylar

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #97 on: June 25, 2014, 10:24:35 pm »
+1

I have one that I played a while ago. There was virtual money but no trashing or buys. I would be surprised if there was a way around PS here. I didn't play all that well but neither did my opponent. If you look through the log you can see some pretty serious blunders on my part and that I wasn't paying attention to my opponents deck state.



Code: [Select]
Scrying Pool, Oracle, Fortress, Militia, Noble Brigand, Pirate Ship, Procession, Silk Road, Talisman, Harem
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140510/log.50d804c7e4b0b34255505855.1399761717962.txt
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #98 on: June 25, 2014, 11:17:03 pm »
0

Bringing this up one last time. I don't feel comfortable naming a winner for mine or SCSN's boards yet. I think Robz wins mine and PS wins SCSN's? Help me out here! You can find the links to the boards in the first post.
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

silverspawn

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2014, 11:37:00 pm »
+1

Bringing this up one last time. I don't feel comfortable naming a winner for mine or SCSN's boards yet. I think Robz wins mine and PS wins SCSN's? Help me out here! You can find the links to the boards in the first post.
you named Robz the winner on my board for no reason, just do it again  ::)
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2014, 11:38:52 pm »
0

Bringing this up one last time. I don't feel comfortable naming a winner for mine or SCSN's boards yet. I think Robz wins mine and PS wins SCSN's? Help me out here! You can find the links to the boards in the first post.
you named Robz the winner on my board for no reason, just do it again  ::)

I did? Hold on a minute!
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2014, 11:42:44 pm »
0

Quote
Interestingly, I'm not sure this rock-paper-scissors scenario counts. The deck without Pirate Ship still beats the deck with Pirate Ship. The Pirate Ship deck beats the Fools Gold deck, but you don't go for the Fools Gold deck because there is Pirate Ship.

(Additionally, I'm not 100% convinced the Fools Gold deck cant beat the PS deck anyway.)

nono, there is no rock-paper-scissors scenario. you want to open forager/pirate ship, like i did, get a second forager and a second pirate ship, and if by that time your opponent has not picked up a pirate ship of his own, like it happened in my game, you go fools gold. if your opponent just went fools gold, he will lose, because your pirate ship will hit his fools gold, and you contested him, so he isn't going to have many, and your pirate ships which will always hit will win the game. if your opponent went mystics he will lose, because you have lots of fg in a small deck. if your opponent went masterpiece, he will lose, because you have lots of fg in a small deck. if your opponent went pirate ship of his own, well, then it doesn't matter, because both sides have pirate ship. in any case, pirate ship wins.

i completely agree that pirate ship is bad in the other 2 kingdoms.

I'd have agreed had Duke been something silly like Counting House, but with Duke on board Fool's Gold should be ignored entirely and a Pirate Ship/Forager open sounds awfully slow. Opening Silver/Silver, getting Duchy on 5 and Masterpiece on 6-7 (probably twice before switching to Duchy entirely?) should win here.

I think I mostly based the decision off of this post. Discussion is never closed on a board so feel free to keep discussing it if you want, maybe everyone will agree that PS is better (I don't consider myself a good judge of these things, or maybe I'm just lazy).
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

brokoli

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #102 on: June 26, 2014, 04:55:29 am »
0

Bringing this up one last time. I don't feel comfortable naming a winner for mine or SCSN's boards yet. I think Robz wins mine and PS wins SCSN's? Help me out here! You can find the links to the boards in the first post.
I think I would go pirate ship on both games.

On your game I would probably just get one Pirate or two, it depends on how fast opponent trashes. but I don't think you can trash all your coppers so quickly because it's hard to build economy with just fortune tellers. Also, ignoring pirate ship somehow means that you open the way of pillage for your opponent. I mean, if you draw a little bit you'll quickly see your spoils coming and use them. I'm not sure about tactician, actually. Double-tactician is cool but as you said it's hard to double-province. I think a hunting grounds or two would do the job better.

About SCSN's, the log convince me. The only real source of draw is stables and it depends on treasures, so building an action-money deck against pirate ship seems really hard. I have some experience with butcher as source of money, and it's a terrible card for that.
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amalloy

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2014, 12:54:42 pm »
0

I have one that I played a while ago. There was virtual money but no trashing or buys. I would be surprised if there was a way around PS here. I didn't play all that well but neither did my opponent. If you look through the log you can see some pretty serious blunders on my part and that I wasn't paying attention to my opponents deck state.



Code: [Select]
Scrying Pool, Oracle, Fortress, Militia, Noble Brigand, Pirate Ship, Procession, Silk Road, Talisman, Harem
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140510/log.50d804c7e4b0b34255505855.1399761717962.txt

Pirate Ship seems terrible here. Every Copper you trash is a gift from Heaven for your opponent, who is having trouble drawing enough with Scrying Pool (given the lack of trashing and +buy). And every Pirate Ship you gain is a Fortress or Militia you don't gain, so you're slowing yourself down in order to help him. There's no +buy, so the 30-odd coins you may be able to get from Pirate Ship in the endgame will go completely to waste. I'd rather just let my opponent trash me all he wants, and build a deck with six Scrying Pools (I'll win the split since he's faffing around with Pirate Ships) and a bunch of Fortress/Militia for reliably drawable coins.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2014, 11:48:52 am »
+5



Code: [Select]
Farming Village, Feast, Feodum, Pirate Ship, Procession, Spice Merchant, City, Journeyman, Venture, King's Court

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140924/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1411571456403.txt

From a league match I just played with Qvist. If you want to see a video of it, http://www.livestream.com/eevertti/video?clipId=pla_259b6b23-ce6b-47c4-9918-205b466d5bc8 starting at 1:29:30. Pretty sure this is a pirate ship affair.
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liopoil

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2014, 02:10:50 pm »
0

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.
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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2014, 03:11:24 pm »
0

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.

I think I'd rather play Ironworks + Great Hall, with maybe some Throne Rooms. My deck will be so full of actions that Pirate Ship will have trouble hitting, and the game will end too fast to get the money payoff from Pirate Ship.
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liopoil

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2014, 03:13:10 pm »
0

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.

I think I'd rather play Ironworks + Great Hall, with maybe some Throne Rooms. My deck will be so full of actions that Pirate Ship will have trouble hitting, and the game will end too fast to get the money payoff from Pirate Ship.
How are you ending the game? Empty GH, TR, and IW? The pirate ship player will be doing the same thing except he picked up PS and NC, so will be able to snag a couple provinces.
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amalloy

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2014, 05:37:52 pm »
0

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.

I think I'd rather play Ironworks + Great Hall, with maybe some Throne Rooms. My deck will be so full of actions that Pirate Ship will have trouble hitting, and the game will end too fast to get the money payoff from Pirate Ship.
How are you ending the game? Empty GH, TR, and IW? The pirate ship player will be doing the same thing except he picked up PS and NC, so will be able to snag a couple provinces.

Estates. Just a couple Throne Rooms will give me enough villages to chow down estates pretty quickly. And if my opponent is really doing "the same thing but with a pirate ship and a nomad camp" I think he will be behind on the rush, with not enough pirate ships for the ships to pay off before the game ends.
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liopoil

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2014, 05:57:35 pm »
+1

I played another one! This one was very case-specific, pirate ship wouldn't necessarily be good here every time: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.506872f90cf2795d403d3f0a.1413150852099.txt

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.505dd328fca2e44e30819afd.1413137265212.txt

Thin pirate ship deck will crush BM here. No way to increase handsize for any sort of real engine that does anything besides play PS a bunch. In mirror, both will thin coppers so fast and end up with no money, worthless pirate ships. Would be interesting, similar to a game I played again schneau a while ago.

I think I'd rather play Ironworks + Great Hall, with maybe some Throne Rooms. My deck will be so full of actions that Pirate Ship will have trouble hitting, and the game will end too fast to get the money payoff from Pirate Ship.
How are you ending the game? Empty GH, TR, and IW? The pirate ship player will be doing the same thing except he picked up PS and NC, so will be able to snag a couple provinces.

Estates. Just a couple Throne Rooms will give me enough villages to chow down estates pretty quickly. And if my opponent is really doing "the same thing but with a pirate ship and a nomad camp" I think he will be behind on the rush, with not enough pirate ships for the ships to pay off before the game ends.
Hmmm. And BM would probably beat that strategy, right? So you go for the rush, but if your opponent goes for money, get pirate ships?

Still, 8 GH and 8 estates is 16 points, minus 2 times however many the pirate ship player gets. Pirate ship needs only a few duchies to win. It would be close.
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-Stef-

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Re: Robz vs Pirate Ship
« Reply #110 on: October 13, 2014, 04:17:38 am »
+2

I played another one! This one was very case-specific, pirate ship wouldn't necessarily be good here every time: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141012/log.506872f90cf2795d403d3f0a.1413150852099.txt

Hurray! an actual Pirate Ship board. Not as case-specific as you may think.
Unless either player wins the torturing so badly the other one resigns, the ships would always see play.

it features...
* you already have the throne rooms anyway.
* no +buy, no gains, so no quick 3-pile ending.
* copper trashing already happening.
* enough alt VP to beat any sort of province rush.

And as usual the main function of the "good pirate ship" is to remove your opponents money, not so much to gain $ yourself.
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