Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SCSN]

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140511/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1399876952798.txt

SheCantSayNo: turn 16
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Highway
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Highway
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Band of Misfits
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Highway
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Ruined Market
SheCantSayNo   plays Band of Misfits
SheCantSayNo   buys Death Cart
SheCantSayNo   gains Death Cart

Had I been able to play it as Death Cart I could have bought the last Province for the win. Now I lost :/

[Donald X.]

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140511/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1399876952798.txt

SheCantSayNo: turn 16
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Highway
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Highway
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Band of Misfits
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Highway
SheCantSayNo   plays Highway
SheCantSayNo   draws Ruined Market
SheCantSayNo   plays Band of Misfits
SheCantSayNo   buys Death Cart
SheCantSayNo   gains Death Cart

Had I been able to play it as Death Cart I could have bought the last Province for the win. Now I lost :/

Band of Misfits cost $0, so nothing was cheaper.

[SCSN]

Wow, I'm an idiot!

[Marcory]

Why didn't you buy a Duchy for $0 instead of a Death Cart? It says you played 5 Highways, and having a Duchy would have put you ahead by 7 points.

[theblankman]

Why didn't you buy a Duchy for $0 instead of a Death Cart? It says you played 5 Highways, and having a Duchy would have put you ahead by 7 points.

It was a misclick, he was trying to have his BoM copy Death Cart, which is the same icon that's used to buy one.  He failed to notice that his BoM resolved with nothing to copy and his buy phase had started.  There's probably not much indication of that in the UI, it's quite the edge case. 

[SCSN]

Because I clicked on the Death Cart thinking I was picking a Misfit target. Had I considered the Misfit-Highway interaction I'd just not have played the last 2 Highways, play Misfit as Death Cart and buy the last province for $5.

[SirPeebles]

Because I clicked on the Death Cart thinking I was picking a Misfit target. Had I considered the Misfit-Highway interaction I'd just not have played the last 2 Highways, play Misfit as Death Cart and buy the last province for $5.

:\

As I see it, you have yourself to blame for not getting the Province, but Goko to blame for not getting the Duchy.  That interface issue is really frustrating.  Playing IRL there is no way you could have made that mistake.

[amalloy]

Because I clicked on the Death Cart thinking I was picking a Misfit target. Had I considered the Misfit-Highway interaction I'd just not have played the last 2 Highways, play Misfit as Death Cart and buy the last province for $5.

:\

As I see it, you have yourself to blame for not getting the Province, but Goko to blame for not getting the Duchy.  That interface issue is really frustrating.  Playing IRL there is no way you could have made that mistake.

Yes, although in real life he would have "gotten away with" buying the Province even after five Highway plays, because neither he nor his opponent would have noticed it was illegal. The goko interface isn't perfect, but neither is real life.

[pacovf]

Because I clicked on the Death Cart thinking I was picking a Misfit target. Had I considered the Misfit-Highway interaction I'd just not have played the last 2 Highways, play Misfit as Death Cart and buy the last province for $5.

:\

As I see it, you have yourself to blame for not getting the Province, but Goko to blame for not getting the Duchy.  That interface issue is really frustrating.  Playing IRL there is no way you could have made that mistake.

Yes, although in real life he would have "gotten away with" buying the Province even after five Highway plays, because neither he nor his opponent would have noticed it was illegal. The goko interface isn't perfect, but neither is real life.

And if someone had pointed out that he couldn't use BoM as death cart, he'd have probably been described as a nitpicky cry-baby sore loser (depends on play group!)

[Grujah]

Iso, on the other hand, would have a separate row for choosing BoM targets (similar to choosing what to trash with stuff or what to play with KC), and will be impervious to such errors.


 

[yed]

Iso, on the other hand, would have a separate row for choosing BoM targets (similar to choosing what to trash with stuff or what to play with KC), and will be impervious to such errors.


 

SCSN would do that mistake on ISO too. But he would be able to buy something else than DC.

[theblankman]

SCSN would do that mistake on ISO too. But he would be able to buy something else than DC.

All true.  When a user makes a mistake, a UI generally shouldn't pour salt in the wound, and having him accidentally buy DC is just that: a further penalty on top of playing a BoM that does nothing.  So SCSN's mistake uncovered what I'd consider an interface design problem.

[amalloy]

SCSN would do that mistake on ISO too. But he would be able to buy something else than DC.

All true.  When a user makes a mistake, a UI generally shouldn't pour salt in the wound, and having him accidentally buy DC is just that: a further penalty on top of playing a BoM that does nothing.  So SCSN's mistake uncovered what I'd consider an interface design problem.

Right. The same thing happens with, eg, Swindler. I played a game a couple weeks ago where my opponent bought a Curse two turns in a row, because he thought he was swindling my Shelters.

The solution is easy: have "name a card" look even a little bit different from "buy/gain a card" (you can distinguish between buy/gain if you want, which might relieve some HoP accidents, but I don't think it's a high priority). For example, use the blue "+" sign for buying, and a green "o" if you're naming for some purpose other than gaining. You could even put it on the left side of the card, so that when SCSN eagerly clicks in the spot he expects the green "o" to show up in, there's not suddenly a blue "+" there.

[SirPeebles]

For example, use the blue "+" sign for buying, and a green "o" if you're naming for some purpose other than gaining. You could even put it on the left side of the card, so that when SCSN eagerly clicks in the spot he expects the green "o" to show up in, there's not suddenly a blue "+" there.

This is a really good idea.  Blue + could mean that you are gaining the card, Gold coin means you are buying, and Green O for other purposes.  Would that ever lead to confusion?  I don't mean that rhetorically either; I may be missing an edge case.

[theblankman]

This is a really good idea.  Blue + could mean that you are gaining the card, Gold coin means you are buying, and Green O for other purposes.  Would that ever lead to confusion?  I don't mean that rhetorically either; I may be missing an edge case.

I can't think of anything one does to a card in the supply other than buy it, gain it, or name it when needed for an action like Band of Misfits, Mystic, Journeyman, etc.  All of the "name for action" uses are separate in that they happen while playing that particular action, so one icon should cover them.  So that's three icons, and there's enough room to put them in three different positions without cluttering things imho (three different corners? or maybe in a column at the bottom right?).  Probably all three should be visible at all times, so you know where they live relative to each other, but of course they'd only be enabled when clicking them would actually do something.

[qmech]

The + for naming cards is the most visually misleading part of the interface left after the recent changes.  The moving buttons (and complete absence of buttons for things like Navigator) probably lead to more mistakes though.  (If Navigator does have buttons, substitute one of the cards that still doesn't, but should.)

[pst]

I can't think of anything one does to a card in the supply other than buy it, gain it, or name it when needed for an action like Band of Misfits, Mystic, Journeyman, etc.

Also looking at it, for those who don't know all the cards by heart.

[SirPeebles]

This is a really good idea.  Blue + could mean that you are gaining the card, Gold coin means you are buying, and Green O for other purposes.  Would that ever lead to confusion?  I don't mean that rhetorically either; I may be missing an edge case.

I can't think of anything one does to a card in the supply other than buy it, gain it, or name it when needed for an action like Band of Misfits, Mystic, Journeyman, etc.  All of the "name for action" uses are separate in that they happen while playing that particular action, so one icon should cover them.  So that's three icons, and there's enough room to put them in three different positions without cluttering things imho (three different corners? or maybe in a column at the bottom right?).  Probably all three should be visible at all times, so you know where they live relative to each other, but of course they'd only be enabled when clicking them would actually do something.

I'm no design expert, and maybe a larger overhaul would be best.  But if this plan were implemented, I would not have all three buttons visible at all times.  That is too cluttered, and you never need more than one at a time (edge case?).  I might try placing each button in a different corner of the card, but only make them visible when you have a chance to click them.  Clicking a green button in the upper left when you were expecting a gold button in the lower right is much harder to do.

[theblankman]

I'm no design expert, and maybe a larger overhaul would be best.  But if this plan were implemented, I would not have all three buttons visible at all times.  That is too cluttered, and you never need more than one at a time (edge case?).  I might try placing each button in a different corner of the card, but only make them visible when you have a chance to click them.  Clicking a green button in the upper left when you were expecting a gold button in the lower right is much harder to do.

I can't think of an edge case, but I think the important thing is that the buttons each have a unique location so that misclicks can only happen if you also move the mouse.  I'm no design expert either, but I tend to advocate not having small UI elements (like single buttons) frequently appear and disappear because users of apps I've coded have said they find "blinking" buttons annoying, and that blink effect is less apparent if the button gets "grayed out" than if it disappears entirely.  For bigger sets of UI controls, appearing and disappearing is fine, and necessary to reduce clutter and group controls logically.  But in this case I don't think clutter is an issue.  If each of the buttons is roughly the size of the current shared +, they could for example fit across the bottom of each kingdom card, with some space between them, and not even take the whole width of the card. 

[DG]

Too many problems come from using two buttons in the same place for different functions. If you were to deliberately design a confusing interface you probably change the text on the buttons to different things at different times so that the user would do the wrong things. I don't know if it is a cross platform limitation that prevents Goko from changing the cursor for different activities, but that would be the standard PC solution to help the user.

I did find a really good and obscure band of misfits bug about a fortnight ago. Shame I can't remember what it was ....