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[ipofanes]

I had Kepler as a top and invoked Electricity with the Umbrella echo underneath.

As I wanted to end this game by score with help of Kepler and some green hand cards (making me draw a card > [10]), I overmelded Kepler with Mathematics so Electricity does not zap Kepler before the second effect is resolved.

To my surprise, I won, but during sharing the effect (did I mention I had to share?).

So this happened:

• Opponent melds using Umbrella's echo
• I meld Mathematics using Umbrella's echo
• Opponent discards all top cards without factory
• Kepler jumps in from underneath Mathematics, tells Electricity to look at my hand, see the green cards and draw an [11]
• Opponent tries to draw a card above [10], I win by score

How I planned this to happen:

• Opponent melds using Umbrella's echo
• I meld Mathematics using Umbrella's echo
• Opponent discards all top cards without factory
• Kepler is happily drowned in Maths, bisecting cones and not paying attention
• Opponent draws [8] cards for all the discarded cards
• I discard all the top cards, including Mathematics
• Kepler jumps up, bedazzled, tells Electricity to look at my hand, see the green cards and draw an [11]
• I try to draw a card above [10], I win by score

I may have taken into account that Kepler would not interfere into an effect while it is in the process of resolving (letting me draw [8] cards and not win by score) but I was surprised that Kepler influences the Dogma effect before the Echo effect underneath resolves. I'd never have played it like this with actual cards.

[markusin]

How would Kepler even work in the way you were expecting it to. It would get revealed only while the dogma effect was in the middle of resolving (though it was on top at the start of the echo chain). I'd expect that you'd still draw 8s, unless Kepler decides it will take effect when you first initiate the echo/dogma chain, tat is before Umbrella's echo is resolved.

[ipofanes]

Ok, Echo rules state: "Which echo effects are executed is decided at the moment the dogma effect is started" so the dogma effect starts before the Echo effects are executed. And Kepler's karma resolves "if you would take a dogma action". Yes, I am convinced now that isotropic handles the situation according to the rules.