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Author Topic: Request: Remodel / Mining Village  (Read 1708 times)

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dondon151

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Request: Remodel / Mining Village
« on: December 04, 2011, 03:52:33 pm »
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Hi everyone,

A couple of weeks ago my friends and I were playing 4-p Dominion and this combo came up in the kingdom twice. I originally dismissed it and just went straight BM with a mediocre enabler, but one of my friends used this both times and completely thrashed us. I know that Remodel is a significantly better opening when there are good $4s in the kingdom, and I'd really like to see how this stands up to the traditional BM + enabler strategies, but I'm not very good at using the simulators and I'm also not familiar with the trashing rules of Mining Village.

I'm fairly sure of the following:
- Open Remodel / Silver (Remodel / nothing with 5 / 2?)
- If $3, buy Silver
- If $4 or $5, buy Remodel (until there are 2-3 in the deck)
- If $4 or $5, buy Mining Village
- If $6, buy Gold
- Remodel Estates into Mining Villages
- Remodel Remodels into Golds if they clash
- Trash Mining Village only if they let you get to $6 for Gold or $8 for Province
- Remodel Golds into Provinces
- Remodel Silvers into Duchies

If anyone can help me out with this, I'd really appreciate it.
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DG

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Re: Request: Remodel / Mining Village
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2011, 04:49:46 pm »
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There's three quarters of a strategy there. Put another useful card into the set, perhaps a stables or laboratory, and it would work better. There are too many decision in the card play to get any useful results from a simulator.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Request: Remodel / Mining Village
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2011, 11:24:04 pm »
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Man, I'm not even convinced that's really gonna be an improvement over MV + money. Maybe very slightly at best. But remodel is just so SLOW. Maybe better in 4p where the quick sac is going to be a lot more useful 'cause there's fewer greens per person and therefore it's a quicker game?

dondon151

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Re: Request: Remodel / Mining Village
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 01:23:17 am »
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There's three quarters of a strategy there. Put another useful card into the set, perhaps a stables or laboratory, and it would work better. There are too many decision in the card play to get any useful results from a simulator.

That's what I thought. Maybe I'll solitaire on Isotropic.

Man, I'm not even convinced that's really gonna be an improvement over MV + money. Maybe very slightly at best. But remodel is just so SLOW. Maybe better in 4p where the quick sac is going to be a lot more useful 'cause there's fewer greens per person and therefore it's a quicker game?

I wasn't really convinced either and was somewhat miffed that I lost to it twice with BM + enabler. Then I thought about it some more. Granted, Remodel is slow, but Mining Village is a great target for Estates, it helps you get to Gold more easily, and it gets itself out of your deck if you trash it. And those Remodels accelerate the endgame. You're definitely right about 4-p encouraging quick sacrificial strategies though.

EDIT: Got to some testing. I wasn't quite as disciplined as resigning immediately after getting to 4 Provinces in some of them, but I'll list the number of turns it takes to get to 4 Provinces anyway.

Game 1 (4 Provinces, 1 Duchy in 13 turns): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-224921-b088e1c3.html
Game 2 (4 Provinces, 2 Duchies in 16 turns): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-224537-6411f7c6.html
Game 3 (4 Provinces, 1 Duchy in 15 turns): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-224027-0f70cde9.html
Game 4 (4 Provinces in 14 turns): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-223537-7c1df055.html
Game 5 (4 Provinces in 12 turns): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-225410-823ea7aa.html
Game 6 (4 Provinces, 3 Duchies in 16 turns): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-231115-a2974b25.html
Game 7 (4 Provinces in 13 turns): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-231730-2ea6a90f.html

For the first 3 games I was experimenting with using 3 Remodels, then switched to 2 Remodels for the last 4 games. There were a couple of stinkers where I didn't draw Remodel with an Estate on turns 3-4; I think if that happens, you've basically lost. There were a couple of games where I misplayed a hand and quit (ex. turn 8 with Remodel, MV, Gold, Silver, Copper, should Remodel MV to Gold and buy a Gold). There was also one game where I had like 3 Provinces and 5 Duchies by turn 17 and just couldn't get to that 4th Province.

I'm not sure if this holds up well enough against other strats; 4 Provinces in 14-15 turns is decent but you're also down a couple of Estates and maybe Duchies.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 02:25:57 am by dondon151 »
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DStu

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Re: Request: Remodel / Mining Village
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 06:14:34 am »
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So as there are many non-trivial decisions, I think Dominiate is the better tool for playing around with the strategy:
Some basic template for this strat:
Code: [Select]
# Some basic ideas for Remodel-Mining Village
#
{
  name: 'Remodel/Mining Village'
  author: 'DStu'
  requires: ["Remodel", "Mining Village"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province"
    "Duchy" if state.gainsToEndGame() <= 5
    "Estate" if state.gainsToEndGame() <= 2
    "Gold"
    "Remodel" if my.countInDeck("Remodel") <= 3
    "Mining Village"
    "Silver"
  ]
 
  actionPriority: (state,my) -> [
    "Remodel" if my.countInHand("Mining Village") >= 1
    "Mining Village"
    "Remodel" if my.countInHand("Estate") >= 1
    "Remodel" if my.countInHand("Remodel") >= 1
    null
  ]
 
  upgradeValue: (state, choice, my) ->
    [oldCard, newCard] = choice
    if (oldCard == c["Gold"] && newCard == c["Province"])
      return 50
    if (oldCard == c["Mining Village"] && newCard == c["Gold"])
      return 40
    if (oldCard == c["Remodel"] && newCard == c["Gold"])
      return 30
    if (oldCard == c["Estate"] && newCard == c["Mining Village"])
      return 20
    if (oldCard == c["Estate"] && newCard == c["Remodel"] )
      return 10
    if (newCard == c["Curse"])
      return -10
    return 0
   
  miningVillageTrashValue: (state, choice, my) ->
    if 4 <= my.ai.pessimisticMoneyInHand(state) <= 6
      return 1
    return -1
}
gainPriority is what you would like to buy, like in Geronimoo's sim.
actionPriority is what you would like to play under which conditions
upgradeValue is for Remodel. Which pair [old, new] would you prefer most to remodel from old -> new. There must be a better way to write this, but I didn't manage
minigVillageTrashValue gives conditions for trashing the MV.

As is it looses 10:90 against BM. So have fun playing around with it.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Request: Remodel / Mining Village
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 08:00:09 am »
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There are a lot of non-trivial decisions, so I would be inclined to suggest using rspeer's simulator (Dominiate). Despite that, I've put in a lot of work trying to improve Remodel and Mining Village play in my simulator and I actually managed to create a bot that is capable of beating Big Money:

Code: [Select]
<player name="Remodel/Mining Village" author="Geronimoo" description="Use Remodels and Mining Villages instead of money to gain Golds and Provinces.">
 <type name="Generated"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Gold"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Remodel">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Remodel"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="8.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Mining_Village">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Silver"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
</player>

It buys 2 Remodels max and waits a little to buy Mining Villages (get some Silvers first). This will beat Big Money, but it will never be able to beat any mediocre enabler (Smithy, Oracle,...). The strategy is also better suited for 4-player games.
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DG

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Re: Request: Remodel / Mining Village
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 08:37:02 am »
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Quote
It buys 2 Remodels max and waits a little to buy Mining Villages (get some Silvers first). This will beat Big Money, but it will never be able to beat any mediocre enabler (Smithy, Oracle,...). The strategy is also better suited for 4-player games.

If you can remodel estates to both smithy and mining village then you have a (nearly) complete strategy that should beat smithy/money. It all depends how you look at these things.
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