Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Scissors Grinder (Action)  (Read 4499 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

gambit05

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Respect: +495
    • View Profile
Scissors Grinder (Action)
« on: May 05, 2014, 12:07:35 pm »
+1

Sort of a hybrid of Peddler and Stonemason:

Code: [Select]
Scissors Grinder (Action)---6*+
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard a card from your hand.
------------------------------
During your Buy phase, this costs (1) less per
Action card you have in play, but not less than (2).
When you buy this, you may overpay for it.
If you do, gain an Action card costing the amount
you overpaid.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 12:12:00 pm »
0

I think it's got a little too much going on, none of it really unique.

I could maybe see another card with a Peddler-like discount, but probably not keyed to the number of Action cards you have in play again. The overpay basically amounts to an extra buy that you can only use for Actions. I guess that's fine?
Logged

Marcory

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 715
  • Respect: +1203
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 12:26:13 pm »
0

Laboratory is already one of the best non-attack $5 cards. It's not uncommon to pay $6 for a Lab.

With this pricing, you can easily pile-drive SG's. After all, you need only play SG-SG-[$2/$3 terminal action]-Silver-Silver to get 2 SG's per turn, which is not hard with a 7-card hand. And with +Buy, Bridge, or Quarry, SG-gaining can get really crazy. (It's also not clear how this card's minimum cost interacts with Bridge/Quarry/Highway/Princess.)

This card is only overpriced by $1. Peddler is overpriced by $4, and even then, its basic ability is only slightly better than Oasis, a medium-level $3 card.  Normally, you get Peddlers either because they're free, or because you want to Remodel them, not because of an ability that is essentially equivalent to a coin token. (Sure, if they're the only virtual coin and you're going Double-Tactician--but Oasis or Pawn or Candlestick Maker is almost as good for this).

The 'Stonemason+Peddler' idea might work better with a pseudo-Smithy or Bazaar, because people don't usually pile-drive either card.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2014, 12:32:13 pm »
0

Laboratory is already one of the best non-attack $5 cards. It's not uncommon to pay $6 for a Lab.

With this pricing, you can easily pile-drive SG's. After all, you need only play SG-SG-[$2/$3 terminal action]-Silver-Silver to get 2 SG's per turn, which is not hard with a 7-card hand. And with +Buy, Bridge, or Quarry, SG-gaining can get really crazy. (It's also not clear how this card's minimum cost interacts with Bridge/Quarry/Highway/Princess.)

This card is only overpriced by $1. Peddler is overpriced by $4, and even then, its basic ability is only slightly better than Oasis, a medium-level $3 card.  Normally, you get Peddlers either because they're free, or because you want to Remodel them, not because of an ability that is essentially equivalent to a coin token. (Sure, if they're the only virtual coin and you're going Double-Tactician--but Oasis or Pawn or Candlestick Maker is almost as good for this).

The 'Stonemason+Peddler' idea might work better with a pseudo-Smithy or Bazaar, because people don't usually pile-drive either card.

Did you notice the "Discard a card" part?
Logged

Marcory

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 715
  • Respect: +1203
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2014, 12:47:56 pm »
0

Ah, no. So this card is more palatable now. But it's still pretty powerful of its own accord--maybe roughly equivalent to Inn?--so it's spam-ability is still very strong--probably too strong.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2014, 02:48:53 pm »
+4

Obviously overpowered when compared with Paper Grinder.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2014, 03:10:31 pm »
+1

Obviously overpowered when compared with Paper Grinder.

I think Rock Grinder being on the board would go a long way toward correcting this. It's not that likely that all three will be in a full-random game, though.
Logged

Marcory

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 715
  • Respect: +1203
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2014, 03:23:55 pm »
+3

We also need Spock Grinder and Lizard Grinder. Maybe these could be non-supply unique cards generated through some sort of Tournament-style mechanic?
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2014, 04:58:51 pm »
0

We also need Spock Grinder and Lizard Grinder. Maybe these could be non-supply unique cards generated through some sort of Tournament-style mechanic?
I think we can just make Spock Grinder and call it a day.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2014, 05:42:00 pm »
+1

We also need Spock Grinder and Lizard Grinder. Maybe these could be non-supply unique cards generated through some sort of Tournament-style mechanic?
I think we can just make Spock Grinder and call it a day.
Or we can make a day and call it Spock Grinder.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2014, 08:20:32 pm »
0

Laboratory is already one of the best non-attack $5 cards. It's not uncommon to pay $6 for a Lab.

I don't really agree with this.  There are certainly $5s that I will buy over Gold, but Lab is rarely one of them.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 08:41:46 am »
0

Laboratory is already one of the best non-attack $5 cards. It's not uncommon to pay $6 for a Lab.

I don't really agree with this.  There are certainly $5s that I will buy over Gold, but Lab is rarely one of them.

Really? I pay $6 for Lab with some regularity.
Logged

Wrclass

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
  • Dominion is the best game ever
  • Respect: +110
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2014, 09:25:32 am »
+2

Obviously overpowered when compared with Paper Grinder.

I think Rock Grinder being on the board would go a long way toward correcting this. It's not that likely that all three will be in a full-random game, though.

Or:

Paper Village $4 Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Each other player reveal a Scissors Village from their hand. If no one did, +$1

Rock Village $4 Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Each other player may reveal a Paper Village from their hand. If no one did, +2 Cards, discard 2 Cards


Scissors Village $4 Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Each other player may reveal a Rock Village from their hand. If no one did, gain a spoils from the spoils pile.


Their all in the same pile, like knights.
Logged
I play Lookout, revealing a Fortress, a Tunnel and a Gold.

gambit05

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Respect: +495
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 01:31:02 pm »
0

Laboratory is already one of the best non-attack $5 cards. It's not uncommon to pay $6 for a Lab.

With this pricing, you can easily pile-drive SG's. After all, you need only play SG-SG-[$2/$3 terminal action]-Silver-Silver to get 2 SG's per turn, which is not hard with a 7-card hand. And with +Buy, Bridge, or Quarry, SG-gaining can get really crazy. (It's also not clear how this card's minimum cost interacts with Bridge/Quarry/Highway/Princess.)

It is not that easy to get a 7-card hand. Bridge and Highway wouldn't affect the minimum costs of (2).

Quote
This card is only overpriced by $1. Peddler is overpriced by $4, and even then, its basic ability is only slightly better than Oasis, a medium-level $3 card.  Normally, you get Peddlers either because they're free, or because you want to Remodel them, not because of an ability that is essentially equivalent to a coin token. (Sure, if they're the only virtual coin and you're going Double-Tactician--but Oasis or Pawn or Candlestick Maker is almost as good for this).

I think this card is overpriced by (2). Peddler gets a cost reduction of (2), while Scissors Grinder gets only a reduction of (1). So, you need at least two action cards in play for both cards to make them attractive for a buy. Good point about the reasons about gaining a Peddler. However, this would make Scissors Grinder less attractive. On the other hand, if you manage to play enough Action cards, you get a second one for free.

Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2014, 08:10:47 pm »
0

Laboratory is already one of the best non-attack $5 cards. It's not uncommon to pay $6 for a Lab.

I don't really agree with this.  There are certainly $5s that I will buy over Gold, but Lab is rarely one of them.

Really? I pay $6 for Lab with some regularity.

It's pretty rare for me.  Maybe I undervalue Lab though.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2014, 09:00:17 pm »
0

Laboratory is already one of the best non-attack $5 cards. It's not uncommon to pay $6 for a Lab.

I don't really agree with this.  There are certainly $5s that I will buy over Gold, but Lab is rarely one of them.

Really? I pay $6 for Lab with some regularity.

It's pretty rare for me.  Maybe I undervalue Lab though.

I'm not saying I do it more than half the time, but if I'm building an engine-y deck and I already have enough Gold, I'll prioritize Lab over it for sure. That's not that uncommon. Although maybe it's just more common for me because if I'm playing with Lab, I'm also playing with 4 other Base Set cards, so there's less likely to be another spammable $5 I want.
Logged

Marcory

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 715
  • Respect: +1203
    • View Profile
Re: Scissors Grinder (Action)
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2014, 09:47:37 pm »
0

The only $5 non-attack cards rated above Lab in Qvist's ratings this year are Hunting Party, Junk Dealer, Counterfeit, Upgrade, Tactician, Haggler, Governor, and Wharf.  Tactician, Wharf, and HP usually offer better (pseudo-) non-terminal draw than Lab does, and Governor is in its own category of non-attack awesomeness. The trashers are good, but you probably don't want too many of them because they'll eventually run out of fuel. Similarly, you  usually don't want too many Hagglers, since they're non-terminal. But unless Wharf/Tactician/HP is on the board, Lab is often the best non-terminal draw around, and well worth spamming once your economy is strong enough.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 10:00:15 pm by Marcory »
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.061 seconds with 21 queries.