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Author Topic: Council of Elders  (Read 1420 times)

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gambit05

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Council of Elders
« on: April 30, 2014, 01:10:29 pm »
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Council of Elders allows gaining strong Village variants, each of which are unique and one-shots, i.e. they are trashed after they have been played. The strongest cards are at the bottom of the pile, and thus more difficult to gain. Most of the Village Meeting cards are stronger versions of already existing cards, but don’t forget, they are unique, and they are one-shots.

I am not sure whether the order of the different Village Meetings is correct, e.g. if #10 is stronger than #9. Also, some might be overpowered, even as one-shots. However, right now I am rather interested on getting feedback on the concept.

Code: [Select]
Council of Elders (Action)---(4)
+1 Action
Take a coin token.
Choose one: Pay a coin token and gain a
Village Meeting from the trash, putting
it into your hand, or look through the
Village Meeting pile. Pay any number of
coin tokens and set aside an equal number
of Village Meeting cards. Put the card into
your hand that is now on top of the pile.
Put the set aside cards back in the original order.

Setup: The 10 unique Village Meeting cards form an extra pile with #1 on top, followed by #2 etc.

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #1 (Action)---(3*)
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may discard a card from your hand.
If you do:
+1 Action
Trash this.
(This card is not in the Supply.)

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #2 (Action)---(3*)
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
You may reveal 3 treasure cards
from your hand. If you do:
+2 Cards
Thrash this.
(This card is not in the Supply.)

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #3 (Action)---(3*)
+1 Card
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
Trash this.
(This card is not in the Supply.)

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #4 (Action)---(3*)
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Take a coin token.
Trash this.
(This card is not in the Supply.)

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #5 (Action)---(3*)
+1 Card
+2 Actions
+ (2)
Trash this.
(This card is not in the Supply.)

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #6 (Action)---(3*)
+3 Cards
+2 Actions
Discard 2 cards from your hand.
Trash this.
----------------------------
When you gain this, look through your
discard pile, reveal any number of Action
cards from it, and shuffle them into your deck.

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #7 (Action-Duration)---(3*)
+2 Actions
+ (1)
At the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+1 Action
Trash this.
(This card is not in the Supply.)

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #8 (Action)---(3*)
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Trash this.
----------------------------
When you gain this, gain a card that costs
up to (5) that is not a Village Meeting.
(This card is not in the Supply.)

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #9 (Action-Duration)---(3*)
+2 Cards
+2 Actions
At the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+1 Action
Trash this.
(This card is not in the Supply.)

Code: [Select]
Village Meeting #10 (Action)---(3*)
+2 Cards
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
You may gain a card from the trash.
Trash this.
(This card is not in the Supply.)

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KingZog3

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Re: Council of Elders
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 01:19:37 pm »
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Problem 1 is that I want my villages to be permanent most of the time, so the fact that this pile runs out and needs you to keep gaining villages is not super strong. I also think that that the power differences are too big. I understand that they are in a certain order, but the first card is strictly worse than Hamlet, while the other are much much better for the most part. Rarely do you want to give your opponent something batter than what you got.

Also, is there any reason they are one shots?

And I don't think I understand that last bit of the card. Is it that i can pay extra to dig through the pile for a better card? Why would I do that? now I use it and my opponent gets to pick it up from the trash for 1 coin.
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gambit05

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Re: Council of Elders
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 01:43:38 pm »
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Problem 1 is that I want my villages to be permanent most of the time, so the fact that this pile runs out and needs you to keep gaining villages is not super strong. I also think that that the power differences are too big. I understand that they are in a certain order, but the first card is strictly worse than Hamlet, while the other are much much better for the most part. Rarely do you want to give your opponent something batter than what you got.

Also, is there any reason they are one shots?

And I don't think I understand that last bit of the card. Is it that i can pay extra to dig through the pile for a better card? Why would I do that? now I use it and my opponent gets to pick it up from the trash for 1 coin.

-Strengths of cards: I don't want to argue at this point, and you might be correct. But this is not the point right now.
-One shots: To allow every player having principally access to each type of Village Meeting, and to compensate for the especially strong versions.
-Digging by paying with coin tokens: To avoid stalling of gaining cards from the pile and as an additional strategic moment, to have the possibility to gain stronger cards. Of course, it is highly unlikely that someone digs as deep as 8-9 cards (8-9 coins) or something like that, but maybe at the right situation, when needed it is worthwhile to spend 2 or 3 coin tokens?
Update: And don't forget, the Council of Elders cards provide a permanent supply of Village Meeting cards, either from the trash or from the supply.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 02:12:27 pm by gambit05 »
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Marcory

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Re: Council of Elders
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2014, 02:10:55 pm »
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First of all, you'd probably want to create a new card type 'VM' for clarity's sake.

Second, is there a reason these cards cost $3* instead of 0*? Normally you won't want to Remodel these cards, and they won't normally be in your deck long enough to be hit by Saboteur/Knights. (The only edge-cases I can think of are if I don't want to trigger a reshuffle or if I Possess you, play your CoE, and gain a VM into my own deck).

This also leads to a problem with Graverobber/Rogue. Barring Highway etc., Graverobber and Rogue only can gain cards that cost $3-$6. At present, all of the $*-cost cards that are not in the Supply cost $0*, so that gaining them from the Trash is not an issue. Peddler is in the Supply, but its cost only varies during the Buy phase, so its cost is also not an issue here.

But it could be an issue for $3 Village Meetings. You'd have to include a special rule for VM that says 'you can't gain this from the Trash except with Council of Elders', but that seems unnecessarily complicated. Why not just price it at $0*?

In addition, the other one-shot 0*-cost cards (Spoils and Madman) return to their own pile when played, rather than the trash. Why not just have VM return to the bottom of the VM pile when played, and have the Coin token mechanic gain cards that are stacked out of order (i.e., that have been Returned) rather than from the Trash?

Alternately, if you return the VM's to the trash, you could have the Coin token gain ANY Village ("Card whose name contains 'Village'") from the trash. That would give CoE a good combo with the otherwise-weak Mining Village and give it a sometimes-useful ability without overly strengthening it.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 02:32:51 pm by Marcory »
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gambit05

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Re: Council of Elders
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 02:28:29 pm »
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Is there a reason these cards cost $3* instead of 0*? The only reason I can think of is that you want them to be susceptible to Knights/Saboteur, because you rarely want to Remodel $3 cards anyway.

But there's a problem with Graverobber/Rogue. Ordinarily, Graverobber and Rogue only can gain cards that cost $3-6. At present, all of the $*-cost cards that are not in the Supply cost $0*, so that gaining them from the Trash is not an issue. Peddler is in the Supply, but its cost only varies during the Buy phase, so its cost is also not an issue for Graverobber/Rogue.

You'd have to include a special rule that says 'you can't gain this from the Trash except with Council of Elders', but that seems unnecessarily complicated. Why not just price it at $0*?

 In addition, the other one-shot Spoils and Madman return to their own pile when played, rather than the trash. Why not just have these return to the bottom of the VM pile when played, and have the Coin token mechanic gain cards that are stacked under VM#10 (i.e., that have been Returned) rather than from the Trash?

Alternately, if you return the VM's to the trash, you could have the Coin token gain ANY Village ("Card whose name contains 'Village'" from the trash. That would give CoE a good combo with the otherwise-weak Mining Village and give it a sometimes-useful ability without overly strengthening it.

-The main reasons actually were that you can pick them up with other trash diggers, and having the potential of a trash for benefit, where you can convert them in the late game to duchies (for example). I haven't thought about the Knights/Saboteur interaction, but I feel this makes it even more interesting.
-Gaining VM by cards other than CoE: No problem with that.
-Trash vs pile: I have to think about this, but my first guess is that it is not an improvement.
- Alternative: Not sure what you mean here. The player can spend a coin token, and can choose any VM from the trash. Edit: Now, I understand. Interesting idea, but is it worth the additional wording (the text is already quite long)?

« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 02:48:55 am by gambit05 »
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