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Author Topic: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Werewolves Win!)  (Read 157055 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #950 on: May 30, 2014, 02:12:48 pm »

in fact, we know we have at least one alien.

I think we have more than one.  The logic is a little shaky, but.. Alien's need to kill someone else and have one person alive.  That seems really hard if there is only one, and they only get one total night kill.  Though they can treestump every night, I guess?  I had originally thought it was one-shot as well.  Still, tree-stumping is weaker than killing, and the Alien needs to be alive, while a faction like SK doesn't, so a single Alien treestumper would be like a very disadvantaged SK.

There's no guarantee of balance, yeah, but I'm not sure one faction would be so disadvantaged? 
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #951 on: May 30, 2014, 02:13:23 pm »

I am inclined to believe BA's claim (new, unlikely, etc.). We also now have a ton of claims, which is...I dunno, I hesitate to say "not as bad as normal," but it's not like these PRs are doing much other than creating likely town, which is best-case scenario...so, huzzah?

Anyway, I really like a vote: axxle here, both because I think he's scum and because he already claimed. Two birds, one stone.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #952 on: May 30, 2014, 02:16:48 pm »

I don't know what to make of either of them. More and more I like the Axxle lynch over the Voltaire lynch.

Here is one thing. Axxle is half-cleared. We had two cops. We might have a seer. If we have a seer, then we can get him more cleared. I mean, he could be an alien or a SK.

Are cops in this game just useless? geez.

Axxle can't be SK or Alien.  Axxle can only be Town or Mafia.  There are only two Governor abilities.  And Seer only checks Werewolf? 

If we had a Seer for SP, we could figure him out, since he's either Town or Werewolf.  Unless that Alien investigationmessuperizor is in the game.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #953 on: May 30, 2014, 02:22:28 pm »

But that Alienscrewsupcops role only effects cops who get "Guilty/Not Guilty". That doesn't sound like it would affect someone who returns "Mafia/Not Mafia" or something like that, right? So what cops theoretically would get "Guilty/Not Guilty"?
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #954 on: May 30, 2014, 02:31:54 pm »

But that Alienscrewsupcops role only effects cops who get "Guilty/Not Guilty". That doesn't sound like it would affect someone who returns "Mafia/Not Mafia" or something like that, right? So what cops theoretically would get "Guilty/Not Guilty"?

I read "Guilty/Not Guilty" as "X/Not X, where X \in {Mafia, Alien, Werewolf, SK}" or something like that.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #955 on: May 30, 2014, 02:33:14 pm »

But that Alienscrewsupcops role only effects cops who get "Guilty/Not Guilty". That doesn't sound like it would affect someone who returns "Mafia/Not Mafia" or something like that, right? So what cops theoretically would get "Guilty/Not Guilty"?

I read "Guilty/Not Guilty" as "X/Not X, where X \in {Mafia, Alien, Werewolf, SK}" or something like that.

That makes sense as long as there isn't actually a cop who gets "Guilty/Not Guilty" (which would sound like checking for killing ability, ie catching town Vigs as well or something)
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #956 on: May 30, 2014, 02:37:21 pm »

But that Alienscrewsupcops role only effects cops who get "Guilty/Not Guilty". That doesn't sound like it would affect someone who returns "Mafia/Not Mafia" or something like that, right? So what cops theoretically would get "Guilty/Not Guilty"?

I read "Guilty/Not Guilty" as "X/Not X, where X \in {Mafia, Alien, Werewolf, SK}" or something like that.

That makes sense as long as there isn't actually a cop who gets "Guilty/Not Guilty" (which would sound like checking for killing ability, ie catching town Vigs as well or something)

Check the PMs for cop, etc:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Greater_Idea_Mafia/RolePMs
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #957 on: May 30, 2014, 02:45:44 pm »

ohmygodhowdidineverseethatpage
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #958 on: May 30, 2014, 02:48:56 pm »

So yeah, if this person is alive they affect all cops.

Just a refresher because I saw someone say something incorrect about this earlier, "insane" means opposite results, not "guilty" on everyone. That's "paranoid".

And this means that said Alien role does not exist because joth got "Not Mafia" on me, though I know from anyone else's point of view you can't know that.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #959 on: May 30, 2014, 03:34:56 pm »

Vote Count 2.7

Ichimaru Gin (1): Archetype
EgorK (1): Nik
Axxle (2): Ichimaru Gin, Voltaire
Beyond Awesome (2): XerxesPraelor, A Drowned Kernal
XerxesPraelor (1): Axxle
Witherweaver (1): Beyond Awesome

Not Voting (3): EgorK, scott_pilgrim, Witherweaver

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Monday June 2 at 9:30 PM FT. Please note: mail-mi will be going to Spain around the 4th or 5th. AndrewisFTTW will be the official mod from then until about June 15th or 16th.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #960 on: May 30, 2014, 04:21:52 pm »

I'm not sold on the Axxle argument. I still think if there were Mountebank and Nobles he would have kept Nobles. However, I can see him keeping Governor.

So, why do you guys think Axxle is likely mafia governor?
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #961 on: May 30, 2014, 04:38:17 pm »

I'm inclined to go off of my actual read on him rather than analyzing his card choice, since there isn't really a way to know what assumptions anyone made while making their card choices. He's been very lurky since his governor business, and it seems a lot like he's hanging back and hoping that the wagon on him simply won't start up again due to inertia.

I also think we need to stop getting people to L-1 and backing off when they claim. Scum is perfectly capable of lying for claims, and the more PRs we out the more power scum has.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #962 on: May 30, 2014, 04:41:58 pm »

I also think we need to stop getting people to L-1 and backing off when they claim. Scum is perfectly capable of lying for claims, and the more PRs we out the more power scum has.

This is why I'm extra-happy to lynch axxle.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #963 on: May 30, 2014, 04:44:05 pm »

I'm inclined to go off of my actual read on him rather than analyzing his card choice, since there isn't really a way to know what assumptions anyone made while making their card choices. He's been very lurky since his governor business, and it seems a lot like he's hanging back and hoping that the wagon on him simply won't start up again due to inertia.

I also think we need to stop getting people to L-1 and backing off when they claim. Scum is perfectly capable of lying for claims, and the more PRs we out the more power scum has.

You do have a point there. Axxle did seem more active on D1 and a lot less active D2. That does look a bit suspicious.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #964 on: May 30, 2014, 04:45:10 pm »

I'm not sold on the Axxle argument. I still think if there were Mountebank and Nobles he would have kept Nobles. However, I can see him keeping Governor.

So, why do you guys think Axxle is likely mafia governor?

So Nobles corresponds with Mafia Governor and Governor corresponds with Town Governor.  What are you saying here?
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #965 on: May 30, 2014, 04:48:27 pm »

I'm not sold on the Axxle argument. I still think if there were Mountebank and Nobles he would have kept Nobles. However, I can see him keeping Governor.

So, why do you guys think Axxle is likely mafia governor?

So Nobles corresponds with Mafia Governor and Governor corresponds with Town Governor.  What are you saying here?

I was saying that it seemed more likely that if Axxle was more aware of how the setup worked that he would likely keep Governor but not keep Nobles if he had the choice, especially since MB was the card he discarded. Although, his thinking could have very well been along my line of thinking that by discarding the more powerful card you will get the more powerful role.
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jotheonah

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #966 on: May 30, 2014, 06:14:25 pm »

I don't know what to make of either of them. More and more I like the Axxle lynch over the Voltaire lynch.

Here is one thing. Axxle is half-cleared. We had two cops. We might have a seer. If we have a seer, then we can get him more cleared. I mean, he could be an alien or a SK.

Are cops in this game just useless? geez.

Axxle can't be SK or Alien.  Axxle can only be Town or Mafia.  There are only two Governor abilities.  And Seer only checks Werewolf? 

If we had a Seer for SP, we could figure him out, since he's either Town or Werewolf.  Unless that Alien investigationmessuperizor is in the game.

I meant to say Voltaire is half-cleared
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #967 on: May 30, 2014, 09:53:03 pm »

this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #968 on: May 30, 2014, 10:03:35 pm »

this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.
Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.

scott_pilgrim

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #969 on: May 30, 2014, 10:03:58 pm »

I also think we need to stop getting people to L-1 and backing off when they claim. Scum is perfectly capable of lying for claims, and the more PRs we out the more power scum has.

This is why I'm extra-happy to lynch axxle.

I also think this is a really nice benefit of lynching Axxle.  I don't even remember anything from him D2, though I think that seems odd from him regardless of alignment.  I guess he's the only one alive right now that seems out of meta to me.

There's also IG who claimed lover with no partners, I think he's pretty obviously not lying about that since that would just be a very bizarre fake claim from scum, but he could still be a scum lover so it doesn't clear him at all.  I think he's a good option to lynch but I prefer Axxle.

I think BA's claim makes him townier, because 1. it is verifiable (although to verify it we basically have to put him into a situation where we say stump yourself or we lynch you, which we wouldn't want to do unless he was our preferred lynch option anyway), 2. I think scum would prefer a non-unique fakeclaim, and 3. a newbie claim somehow seems more believable to me, I think because it just seems like he would have claimed something safer (maybe I'm just reiterating 1 and 2 now...)

I'm about halfway through my re-read, will be traveling tomorrow so I won't have time to finish at least until Sunday.

vote: Axxle

PPE: 2
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #970 on: May 30, 2014, 10:05:06 pm »

this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.
Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.

Yeah, but that's easy enough to say as either alignment...
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #971 on: May 30, 2014, 10:06:58 pm »

this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.
Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.

Yeah, but that's easy enough to say as either alignment...
I can say it as either alignment, but it's only true in one.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #972 on: May 30, 2014, 10:09:35 pm »

this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.
Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.

Yeah, but that's easy enough to say as either alignment...
I can say it as either alignment, but it's only true in one.

Which one?
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #973 on: May 30, 2014, 10:12:54 pm »

this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.
Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.

Yeah, but that's easy enough to say as either alignment...
I can say it as either alignment, but it's only true in one.

I guess to me, not caring about a game shouldn't be indicative of alignment.  If it were, then you could easily just pretend not to care about a game in which you are scum, and use that to get away with not posting, which could be what you're doing here which I guess is just WIFOM.  But really, I don't think you're really that much more likely to care about a game as scum than as town that it should have a significant impact on whether people decide to lynch you.
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #974 on: May 30, 2014, 10:15:40 pm »

this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.
Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.

Yeah, but that's easy enough to say as either alignment...
I can say it as either alignment, but it's only true in one.

I guess to me, not caring about a game shouldn't be indicative of alignment.  If it were, then you could easily just pretend not to care about a game in which you are scum, and use that to get away with not posting, which could be what you're doing here which I guess is just WIFOM.  But really, I don't think you're really that much more likely to care about a game as scum than as town that it should have a significant impact on whether people decide to lynch you.
Oh, I wasn't talking about not caring about it. I meant my play in general.
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