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Author Topic: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Werewolves Win!)  (Read 156978 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #475 on: May 20, 2014, 12:27:36 pm »

ADK made some point about scum knowing who was town.

I made that point that since it seemed likely that there were multiple scumteams (from what Xeiron had said and what I gather from the setup), that this would not be the case. Why would scumteams be aware of each other and know who scum in other factions were? My guess is they wouldn't, therefore they don't really know who is town since they don't know if there are other scumteams out there. So making gambits on someone being town is more risky for them, as they could flip as scum from a different faction.

You took this statement as something that "sounds like it would come from a member of one of said scumteams", which makes no sense to me for reasons I have already outlined in my last post.

So basically you are finding me scummy for paying attention to the setup and trying to make what I believe to be rational inferences. This gives me more of a town-read on ADK I think, since I'd expect scum would discuss other factions and thus be more aware. Unless that was just a really good fake town-slip.

PPE: jotheonoah



Okay yes, that I understand.  I'm not disagreeing with the point made.  This is a read thing.  The way you said it makes me think that you're coming from an "inside" perspective and not an "outside" one. 
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #476 on: May 20, 2014, 12:33:09 pm »

ADK made some point about scum knowing who was town.

I made that point that since it seemed likely that there were multiple scumteams (from what Xeiron had said and what I gather from the setup), that this would not be the case. Why would scumteams be aware of each other and know who scum in other factions were? My guess is they wouldn't, therefore they don't really know who is town since they don't know if there are other scumteams out there. So making gambits on someone being town is more risky for them, as they could flip as scum from a different faction.

You took this statement as something that "sounds like it would come from a member of one of said scumteams", which makes no sense to me for reasons I have already outlined in my last post.

So basically you are finding me scummy for paying attention to the setup and trying to make what I believe to be rational inferences. This gives me more of a town-read on ADK I think, since I'd expect scum would discuss other factions and thus be more aware. Unless that was just a really good fake town-slip.

PPE: jotheonoah



Okay yes, that I understand.  I'm not disagreeing with the point made.  This is a read thing.  The way you said it makes me think that you're coming from an "inside" perspective and not an "outside" one.
Don't you see that the same could be said of you? So are we arguing over whether or not we think that theoretical multiple faction scumteams are aware of each other? Because from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other--which to me would be something only scum could know. Wheras my argument is just an inference. (I'm underling this because I think it's a very important point).
Doesn't it seem pretty obvious that they wouldn't be. I mean, I have no idea about precedents to this, but it makes sense to me. I mean, it's not like the mafia normally get a message telling them who the SK is (in a theoretical setup).
Can anyone who has been in a game with multiple scumteams confirm/disprove this?

Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #477 on: May 20, 2014, 12:34:44 pm »

Quote from: Ichimaru
Because from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other

Huh?  How does anything I said indicate that? 
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #478 on: May 20, 2014, 12:36:16 pm »

Quote from: Ichimaru
Because from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other

Huh?  How does anything I said indicate that?
Well you seem to be arguing with my theory--or at least finding it scummy.
Both of which don't make much sense to me. You seem to be completely ruling out the (true) option which is that I am town who is just analyzing the setup.

Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #479 on: May 20, 2014, 12:37:13 pm »

We're not arguing over whether we think theoretical scum team factions are aware of each other, and I'm not sure why  you think we are.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #480 on: May 20, 2014, 12:45:49 pm »

Quote from: Ichimaru
Because from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other

Huh?  How does anything I said indicate that?
Well you seem to be arguing with my theory--or at least finding it scummy.
Both of which don't make much sense to me. You seem to be completely ruling out the (true) option which is that I am town who is just analyzing the setup.

So I guess I'm bad at explaining myself.  I'm not arguing with your theory, and I'm not ruling out any option.  I realize the statement could have come from town.  It also could have come from scum.  I got an impression of the latter.  This wasn't the one thing that made me vote, just something I noticed among others.  And it's a "feeling" thing instead of a "fact" thing.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #481 on: May 20, 2014, 12:51:21 pm »

Quote from: Ichimaru
Because from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other

Huh?  How does anything I said indicate that?
Well you seem to be arguing with my theory--or at least finding it scummy.
Both of which don't make much sense to me. You seem to be completely ruling out the (true) option which is that I am town who is just analyzing the setup.

So I guess I'm bad at explaining myself.  I'm not arguing with your theory, and I'm not ruling out any option.  I realize the statement could have come from town.  It also could have come from scum.  I got an impression of the latter.  This wasn't the one thing that made me vote, just something I noticed among others.  And it's a "feeling" thing instead of a "fact" thing.
K
that's fine. I'm not sure if others on the wagon feel the same way, but whatever. I've explained myself as best as I can right now, so hopefully people actually read it before voting.


@jothenoah. That's ok. It's a lot to keep track of. I don't have much time for games I'm not in.

Really though. I've gotten quite a bit better since first playing, even though I've had only town-roles since my first game. why would I conspicuously place myself at #1 post count as scum?
I think it's established that I post a lot as town when I have the IRL time to spare. I did in HoC at least. And in another (ongoing) game as well.
Anyway, I'm heading out to my econ final. Be back in a few hours.

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #482 on: May 20, 2014, 12:54:02 pm »

Also, in making statements about my post-count meta. All that I am saying is that I have been proven to do this as town. Sure, I could be pirating this behavior as scum to try to inflate my credibility, but it is important to see that this is what I've done as town as well.

Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #483 on: May 20, 2014, 01:21:21 pm »

Ichimaru seems town to me. What's the case on sp? Lurking? I can think of much bigger culprits. Nik basically disappeared after I started attacking him.
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #484 on: May 20, 2014, 01:22:58 pm »

Ichimaru seems town to me. What's the case on sp? Lurking? I can think of much bigger culprits. Nik basically disappeared after I started attacking him.
Maybe not, but he's still doing more of the same
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #485 on: May 20, 2014, 02:07:55 pm »

I honestly have no idea who anyone is. This whole meta meta environment is intriguing. I keep reading over the posts, but I have no idea what to make of anything.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #486 on: May 20, 2014, 02:48:37 pm »

Ichimaru seems town to me. What's the case on sp? Lurking? I can think of much bigger culprits. Nik basically disappeared after I started attacking him.

Not lurking, blending in.

I'd be lynching you if I could.
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #487 on: May 20, 2014, 02:50:47 pm »

Ichimaru seems town to me. What's the case on sp? Lurking? I can think of much bigger culprits. Nik basically disappeared after I started attacking him.

Not lurking, blending in.

I'd be lynching you if I could.
My next post immediately after that one took back the 'lurking' claim. Maybe I wasn't clear but what I meant was "Maybe he's not lurking, but he's doing more of the same scummy sheeping" or blending as you put it.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #488 on: May 20, 2014, 03:31:01 pm »

Ichimaru seems town to me. What's the case on sp? Lurking? I can think of much bigger culprits. Nik basically disappeared after I started attacking him.

Not lurking, blending in.

I'd be lynching you if I could.
My next post immediately after that one took back the 'lurking' claim. Maybe I wasn't clear but what I meant was "Maybe he's not lurking, but he's doing more of the same scummy sheeping" or blending as you put it.

I thought it was one of your jokes that I didn't get. I see now.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #489 on: May 20, 2014, 03:43:57 pm »

I honestly have no idea who anyone is. This whole meta meta environment is intriguing. I keep reading over the posts, but I have no idea what to make of anything.

It gets easier once we get some flips, then you can go back and analyze people's interactions with knowledge of their alignments.

We're closing in on deadline.

Would like to lynch: Axxle but you know. Still feeling the scum vibe from WW, especially with his little back-and-forth with Ichi, like they might be scum on separate teams, but I'm starting to feel like I always get the scum vibe from WW, and no one else seems interested. Ichi also, a lot of his posts seem calculated in a scummy way.

Would be okay lynching: Any and all lurkers, scott, chairs, etc. Maybe not Robz.

Don't want to lynch: Voltaire seems very towny here. I don't think I would lynch Teproc either. I'm leaning town on Joth, not super strong but let's lynch somewhere else today.

There's other players but man there's so many people in this game.
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xeiron

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #490 on: May 20, 2014, 04:23:29 pm »

I do not buy the case in Ichimaru.
It seems to me like people is finding scummy excerpts in his posts, not because his posts are particular scummy, but because he has written so many posts that there are simply more to find.
At least I did not get a scummy impression while doing a re-read of him.
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xeiron

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #491 on: May 20, 2014, 04:28:23 pm »

I am fine with a lurker lynch.

vote: Scott Pilgrim {L-3}
Since that is the biggest wagon.
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #492 on: May 20, 2014, 04:29:43 pm »

vote: Scott Pilgrim {L-2}
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Teproc

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #493 on: May 20, 2014, 04:33:58 pm »

Why scott_pilgrim more than any other lurker ? I did a quick reread of his posts (really don't have time for an actual reread right now) and he seems somewhat townie to me.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #494 on: May 20, 2014, 04:40:23 pm »

Why scott_pilgrim more than any other lurker ? I did a quick reread of his posts (really don't have time for an actual reread right now) and he seems somewhat townie to me.
Yeah. I don't really see him as that scummy. Plus he said that his internet would be spotty til Saturday.

Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #495 on: May 20, 2014, 04:41:56 pm »

Why scott_pilgrim more than any other lurker ? I did a quick reread of his posts (really don't have time for an actual reread right now) and he seems somewhat townie to me.

Check out my post involving post counts.
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Teproc

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #496 on: May 20, 2014, 04:47:00 pm »

Why scott_pilgrim more than any other lurker ? I did a quick reread of his posts (really don't have time for an actual reread right now) and he seems somewhat townie to me.

Check out my post involving post counts.

First of all, I think you rely too much on post counts. I haven't been active this game, yet I'm pretty high in there.

Secondly, your case is that you forgot he existed ? I mean yes, scum likes to blend in, but I don't think that's enough.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #497 on: May 20, 2014, 04:58:52 pm »

Post counts are a fine and useful tool. They're an amazing starting point, incentive scum to trip themselves up, and are a wonderful proxy for alignment that I would wager is near-unbeaten for D1 success.

So. Who are you voting for, and why?

There are probably 5 or 6 people I would lynch. I am advocating for my top choice, but by no means my only choice.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #498 on: May 20, 2014, 05:00:49 pm »

Secondly, your case is that you forgot he existed ? I mean yes, scum likes to blend in, but I don't think that's enough.

This is how I nailed faust in NM4. I wish I'd pushed it harder. I D1 POE'd him, and he had a scummy reaction ("that's it?" or something to the sort). The case was that there was no case. That's actually a case on D1.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #499 on: May 20, 2014, 05:01:32 pm »

And I don't mean I actually POE'd him, I mean I did my D1 POE process, which is of course not the same as later days POE.
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