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Author Topic: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Werewolves Win!)  (Read 21419 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #400 on: May 18, 2014, 11:50:17 pm »

Well at least Axxle gave us some time to figure this out. I'm also leaning town on him because picking Governor over Mountebank makes a bit more sense than picking Nobles.

Ichimaru Gin is giving me a bit of a vibe. Like he's trying to buddy up to people. Vote: Ichimaru
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #401 on: May 18, 2014, 11:58:01 pm »

Well at least Axxle gave us some time to figure this out. I'm also leaning town on him because picking Governor over Mountebank makes a bit more sense than picking Nobles.

Ichimaru Gin is giving me a bit of a vibe. Like he's trying to buddy up to people. Vote: Ichimaru

Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.
It sounded as if I may have gone a little too much on Nik, so I apologized. I think you will find that any "buddying" is normally with people I've previously argued with or found scummy.

There are a ton of people in this game who aren't participating much. Those who are at least participating--and therefore interacting with me are all slightly more townie in my eyes.

A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #402 on: May 19, 2014, 12:13:24 am »

Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.

There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #403 on: May 19, 2014, 12:17:23 am »

vote: Robz
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #404 on: May 19, 2014, 12:18:13 am »

no that's silly

vote: scott_pilgrim for being background off the top of my head, like before
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #405 on: May 19, 2014, 12:21:21 am »

Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.

There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
I can see the logic behind this argument. Truth is, I haven't really found anyone really scummy so far. There have been a few people I've had mild scumreads on, pushed them, and they've responded well enough. In a setup this large, I think it could be easier for scum to hide just in the sheer number of players (and low participation players) to avoid attention.
It makes things different as well, in that if there are multiple scumteams running around, they can't say for sure that someone is town, because they wouldn't know if they weren't part of their particular scum faction.
Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions? You are right that I have backed off after minimal response, but I am town in this case. Trying to have interactions with the most people and pushing each one I find a little suspicious is my response to a setup this size.

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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #406 on: May 19, 2014, 02:36:56 am »

Okay, if we can't lynch Axxle, let's lynch jothenah!

Vote: jothenah
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xeiron

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #407 on: May 19, 2014, 03:54:47 am »

Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.

Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.

It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.

My vote stands on Axxle
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #408 on: May 19, 2014, 04:07:25 am »

Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.

Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.

It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.

My vote stands on Axxle
Your votes not on me anymore since I can't be lynched.
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xeiron

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #409 on: May 19, 2014, 04:26:11 am »

Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.

Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.

It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.

My vote stands on Axxle
Your votes not on me anymore since I can't be lynched.

You are right. I missed the votecounts.
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Nik

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #410 on: May 19, 2014, 07:07:34 am »

Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Not only did he vote for me only because he thought I wasn't playing right, but he also claims he thinks people are scum, questions them, then backs off. Very scummy.
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xeiron

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #411 on: May 19, 2014, 07:28:27 am »

Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.

There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.

Normally I would agree to this, but in this game scum do not have to fake many reads. Mafia, Werewolfs and Alien knows their teammates, true, and want to fake those reads. But with around ten possible factions (counting SK's separately), there is enough scum for everybody to search for. Nobody can find town by elimination.

Townread on A Drowned Kernel, though. I think he would have been more aware of this had he been scum.
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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #412 on: May 19, 2014, 09:30:46 am »

Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.

Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.

It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.

My vote stands on Axxle

I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #413 on: May 19, 2014, 09:40:55 am »

Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.

Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.

It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.

My vote stands on Axxle

I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.

The last two parts of your sentence contradict each other. Why does the fact(?) that he's more likely to be town mean that xeiron's vote is scummy?

I think the vote is towny, because as scum you'd know that he isn't lying and would have little reason (besides taking up time) for "checking" if he's really a governor.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #414 on: May 19, 2014, 09:44:05 am »

Also, nobody responded to my joth case and he's hasn't posted anything recently.
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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #415 on: May 19, 2014, 09:44:58 am »

I agree with town points to xeiron for his recent actions. I also agree with town points for ADK because of whatever someone said.

I was thinking this was too many town points. Then I thought about how there are tons of people in this game and felt better. Then I thought about how even scum will scumhunt since we have high odds of multiple factions. Then I got sad.
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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #416 on: May 19, 2014, 09:45:51 am »

Also, nobody responded to my joth case and he's hasn't posted anything recently.

I know this kind of thing is annoying, but could you reiterate it please ? I do intend on rereading soon but I can't right now.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #417 on: May 19, 2014, 09:47:19 am »

Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.

Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.

It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.

My vote stands on Axxle

I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.

Why do you think this Governors is more likely than Nobles?  Do you have some special insight into how Axxle thinks? 
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #418 on: May 19, 2014, 09:47:27 am »

Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.

Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.

It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.

My vote stands on Axxle

I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.

The last two parts of your sentence contradict each other. Why does the fact(?) that he's more likely to be town mean that xeiron's vote is scummy?

I think the vote is towny, because as scum you'd know that he isn't lying and would have little reason (besides taking up time) for "checking" if he's really a governor.

I felt it was more of a scum move because of how I interpreted the Governor ability to work. I thought the ability worked that once per round you can save someone from being lynched so I took that to mean that if people gang up on you again then your ability won't work for that round. But, it seems that how the ability actually works is that no votes can be cast for that person for that round. In other words, based on how I thought the ability to work, it would be better in Day 2 to vote on Axxle to see if he is really Governor or not.
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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #419 on: May 19, 2014, 09:48:53 am »

Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.

Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.

It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.

My vote stands on Axxle

I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.

Why do you think this Governors is more likely than Nobles?  Do you have some special insight into how Axxle thinks?

I arrived at that conclusion from reading earlier posts. We know his other card was Mountebank, so I figured one is likely to keep Mountebank if they have the choice of Nobles, but I can see keeping Governor instead.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #420 on: May 19, 2014, 09:51:25 am »

Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...

God forbid town have a doctor! you really dodged the bullet on that one. vote: Teproc
This is exactly what I previously said, and adds nothing to the discussion. Also, "town", not "we". It's pretty much a completely safe thing to say, that isn't very useful.

Wowza, 5 votes on Robz! that seems a little extreme.
He's only barely halfway to a lynch.
vote: joth I was scum and got scum points for caring too much about L's. It's not something obvious, so it's a better tell.
Also, this.

Vote:Robz888
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?
wait what. I think Mafia would have responded right away. Hell, mafia would be more invested in the game to begin with. We should call this what it is if we're doing it: LAL
Making this sort of presumptions about what scum would or would not choose to do is bad reasoning that helps scum. This post is the sort of thing that scum would post about either town or scum, so that in the first place, the idea that it's LAL means that it's harder to analyze the wagon, and if it's scum, makes people think it's more likely that the wagon will fizzle off once people develop stronger reads, which makes robz less likely to be lynched.

Sell me on it, Axxle. what's the case?
Lastly, this sort of question feels gut scummy to me. Pretending objectivity, but then getting the flexibility means that scum doesn't need to precommit.

I know this isn't very big, but I really think some of these posts (and they're most of his) are pretty scummy.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #421 on: May 19, 2014, 09:52:57 am »

Basically, because nobles sounds less cool than governor. That why I chose catacombs over envoy the first try.
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Teproc

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #422 on: May 19, 2014, 09:53:16 am »

Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.

Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.

It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.

My vote stands on Axxle

I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.

The last two parts of your sentence contradict each other. Why does the fact(?) that he's more likely to be town mean that xeiron's vote is scummy?

I think the vote is towny, because as scum you'd know that he isn't lying and would have little reason (besides taking up time) for "checking" if he's really a governor.

I felt it was more of a scum move because of how I interpreted the Governor ability to work. I thought the ability worked that once per round you can save someone from being lynched so I took that to mean that if people gang up on you again then your ability won't work for that round. But, it seems that how the ability actually works is that no votes can be cast for that person for that round. In other words, based on how I thought the ability to work, it would be better in Day 2 to vote on Axxle to see if he is really Governor or not.

We know his claim is true, he definitely is a Governor. But there is the possibility for both scum and town Governor in this setup.

As far as what Axxle kept, I feel like this is pointless speculation. I think Axxle generally wants to be scum, but he didn't pick the obvious scum card with Mountebank. Then Governor is not a super sexy role as town, but it's very powerful as scum, so he could maybe have picked Governor (the card) ? But it's not a very fun role. So maybe he picked Nobles because at least you have no idea what that will be ?

In any case, it's very hard to draw a solid conclusion for it, so I'm still null on Axxle. Also we should stop talking about that and focus on finding someone to lynch.

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #423 on: May 19, 2014, 10:31:43 am »

Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Not only did he vote for me only because he thought I wasn't playing right, but he also claims he thinks people are scum, questions them, then backs off. Very scummy.

This is starting to become a pattern, just saying.

One thing we haven't seen much of yet is analysis of the axxle wagon from axxle himself. Now that you're not in danger of being lynched, do you have any reads based on what went down?
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #424 on: May 19, 2014, 10:51:30 am »

Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...

God forbid town have a doctor! you really dodged the bullet on that one. vote: Teproc
This is exactly what I previously said, and adds nothing to the discussion. Also, "town", not "we". It's pretty much a completely safe thing to say, that isn't very useful.

Wowza, 5 votes on Robz! that seems a little extreme.
He's only barely halfway to a lynch.
vote: joth I was scum and got scum points for caring too much about L's. It's not something obvious, so it's a better tell.
Also, this.

Vote:Robz888
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?
wait what. I think Mafia would have responded right away. Hell, mafia would be more invested in the game to begin with. We should call this what it is if we're doing it: LAL
Making this sort of presumptions about what scum would or would not choose to do is bad reasoning that helps scum. This post is the sort of thing that scum would post about either town or scum, so that in the first place, the idea that it's LAL means that it's harder to analyze the wagon, and if it's scum, makes people think it's more likely that the wagon will fizzle off once people develop stronger reads, which makes robz less likely to be lynched.

Sell me on it, Axxle. what's the case?
Lastly, this sort of question feels gut scummy to me. Pretending objectivity, but then getting the flexibility means that scum doesn't need to precommit.

I know this isn't very big, but I really think some of these posts (and they're most of his) are pretty scummy.

Huh?  You're including posts by people other than Joth as the ones that are scummy? 

I don't really get the same impression from the first two points.  The last point may be something, and he also said something similar a couple of pages back:

Hey guys, haven't caught up but.

I am at a wedding this weekend so I haven't been on much, and unfortuately I'm on a train with no wifi all day tomorrow. So you might not see much of me. When is deadline? Is my vote desperately needed somewhere? What's this case on Axxle all about?

Jonah

Kind of like saying "Sell me on Axxle". 

The third point I think carries the most weight, though I'm not certain I understand what you're saying about it.  My thought is bringing up "well, scum would want to do this" is more likely to come from scum than town, because scum have to be much more conscious about how scum think and act in order to avoid those things.  I'm not sure if you were saying something similar or not. 
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