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Author Topic: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Werewolves Win!)  (Read 21539 times)

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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #325 on: May 17, 2014, 10:42:13 am »

I might post a case in a bit.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #326 on: May 17, 2014, 10:54:06 am »

Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...

God forbid town have a doctor! you really dodged the bullet on that one. vote: Teproc
This is exactly what I previously said, and adds nothing to the discussion. Also, "town", not "we". It's pretty much a completely safe thing to say, that isn't very useful.

Wowza, 5 votes on Robz! that seems a little extreme.
He's only barely halfway to a lynch.
vote: joth I was scum and got scum points for caring too much about L's. It's not something obvious, so it's a better tell.
Also, this.

Vote:Robz888
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?
wait what. I think Mafia would have responded right away. Hell, mafia would be more invested in the game to begin with. We should call this what it is if we're doing it: LAL
Making this sort of presumptions about what scum would or would not choose to do is bad reasoning that helps scum. This post is the sort of thing that scum would post about either town or scum, so that in the first place, the idea that it's LAL means that it's harder to analyze the wagon, and if it's scum, makes people think it's more likely that the wagon will fizzle off once people develop stronger reads, which makes robz less likely to be lynched.

Sell me on it, Axxle. what's the case?
Lastly, this sort of question feels gut scummy to me. Pretending objectivity, but then getting the flexibility means that scum doesn't need to precommit.
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EgorK

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #327 on: May 17, 2014, 02:08:56 pm »

FYI: Axxle is at L-2 now
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xeiron

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #328 on: May 17, 2014, 02:40:06 pm »

I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do.  I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style.  But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.

vote: Nik

Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik

Ichimaru, Do you think saying "I do not really suspect Nik, but votes to put pressure on him" is the best way to put pressure on Nik?
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #329 on: May 17, 2014, 02:47:17 pm »

I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do.  I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style.  But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.

vote: Nik

Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik

Ichimaru, Do you think saying "I do not really suspect Nik, but votes to put pressure on him" is the best way to put pressure on Nik?
Yeah you're right, it doesn't come off as very serious does it.
My vote on him is real though. I think he would be an ok lynch at this point. Even one serious vote probably wouldn't get much of a reaction, but more will. I just feel like Nik acts scummy as town (which is all I've ever seen him as), yet he would probably do similar things as scum. At any rate, we need town players to act like town. Someone with a town-meta of acting scummy is not what we want.

Twistedarcher

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #330 on: May 17, 2014, 02:50:06 pm »

What has nik done this game that's scummy?
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Nik

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #331 on: May 17, 2014, 02:54:59 pm »

What has nik done this game that's scummy?
I believe it was jumping on the Axxle wagon.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #332 on: May 17, 2014, 02:57:20 pm »

What has nik done this game that's scummy?
Axxle made a good point in Nik just sheeping town.

I AM IN MAFIA AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN
Now I realize he was talking about the game Mafia, not the Mafia faction. So, Unvote.
[/quote]

Also, this post just seems odd. Like scum!Voltaire is going to scream that he is mafia?

PPE: Nik

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #333 on: May 17, 2014, 02:59:06 pm »

Oops. Messed up some quotes there.

Also, Nik. Why vote Voltaire And then just leave?
Do you mean not give a reason? My reason is that earlier in the thread, I thought Volitare claimed he was Mafia, based on this:
Quote
I AM IN MAFIA AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN
Now I realize he was talking about the game Mafia, not the Mafia faction. So, Unvote.
This is the proper quotation.

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #334 on: May 17, 2014, 02:59:53 pm »

crap. That bolded unvote may count for me.
vote: Nik

Robz888

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #335 on: May 17, 2014, 03:14:23 pm »

Yo guys. What's up.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #336 on: May 17, 2014, 03:14:50 pm »

Woah. There are a LOT of people in this game.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #337 on: May 17, 2014, 03:26:54 pm »

What has nik done this game that's scummy?
Axxle made a good point in Nik just sheeping town.

Again, what's with the assumption that people Nik is sheeping are all town?
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #338 on: May 17, 2014, 03:45:17 pm »

What has nik done this game that's scummy?
Axxle made a good point in Nik just sheeping town.

Again, what's with the assumption that people Nik is sheeping are all town?
It's a failure of language. Town as in people in this game, not the faction.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #339 on: May 17, 2014, 05:56:14 pm »

The wagon on Nik is insane. I still like an Axxle wagon, but if that doesn't happen I feel like there has to be scum amongst the Nik voters and I would look there.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #340 on: May 17, 2014, 05:59:53 pm »

The wagon on Nik is insane. I still like an Axxle wagon, but if that doesn't happen I feel like there has to be scum amongst the Nik voters and I would look there.
Is there even a wagon on Nik?
Oh, wait. I guess there are 3? people voting for him. Well this is consistent with the way you've generally read him. But don't you think his play is scummy? I mean, we've never seen Nik as scum before, but his town play is scummy enough...I'm not sure what it would look like. Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?

Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #341 on: May 17, 2014, 06:04:35 pm »

Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?

Yes, but this is Nik's second game, right? There is a different between new town and scum. They can look similar, but telling the difference is my one specialty.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #342 on: May 17, 2014, 06:06:36 pm »

Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?

Yes, but this is Nik's second game, right? There is a different between new town and scum. They can look similar, but telling the difference is my one specialty.
Well...considering the mistake I made in HoC, and I do trust your reads. I'd say for now I'll give Nik the benefit of the doubt.
unvote

Teproc

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #343 on: May 17, 2014, 06:07:42 pm »

Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?

It's not that I disagree, it's just that it's completely beside the point. The point is to find scum, not to teach people how to play the game. Voting for Nik because you find his town play to be anti-town is basically a policy vote, which are bad because you need to be playing for you wincon THIS game, not for future games.

That being said, I don't find the mini-wagon on Nik scummy. How many games has he been in ? HoC and that's it right ? Unless he is in the BM game but that's ongoing so no one can comment on it anyway. WHich means not that many people have played with him.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #344 on: May 17, 2014, 06:29:45 pm »

I'm completely null on Nik.  I don't think there's anything to indicate that he's any more likely to be town/scum than whatever the unmodified probability is.

Teproc does have a point.  We want to play to win this game and not to make players better.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #345 on: May 17, 2014, 06:36:19 pm »

Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?

It's not that I disagree, it's just that it's completely beside the point. The point is to find scum, not to teach people how to play the game. Voting for Nik because you find his town play to be anti-town is basically a policy vote, which are bad because you need to be playing for you wincon THIS game, not for future games.

That being said, I don't find the mini-wagon on Nik scummy. How many games has he been in ? HoC and that's it right ? Unless he is in the BM game but that's ongoing so no one can comment on it anyway. WHich means not that many people have played with him.

I'm completely null on Nik.  I don't think there's anything to indicate that he's any more likely to be town/scum than whatever the unmodified probability is.

Teproc does have a point.  We want to play to win this game and not to make players better.

Yeah. It probably wasn't the most productive thing. But hey, I'm not that experienced myself.
At any rate, it doesn't seem like much interaction surrounding this issue tells us much.

Hmm. Having never played a game with this many players, it's a different sort of experience. I seem to remember some sort of conversation like this in a game I was following. And I think people found the person asking it scummy, I'm gonna ask it anyway though.

With, what 16 people in the game, does the scumteam scale up in size? Like are we likely looking at a 4 person team, or is that not something we can determine?

Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #346 on: May 17, 2014, 06:39:46 pm »

I like Axxle, and TA as well, in that order.

What Xerxes said about Joth was interesting (TM ), but I haven't had a chance to go back and read and really think about it.

Also a bit unsure about the "failure of language" comment.  Is that saying that English isn't a first language, or that you just misspoke?  (This is directed to Axxle.)
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #347 on: May 17, 2014, 06:45:52 pm »

@Ichi: The alignments were chosen with the roles.. mail-mi posted all the possible ones.  We only know that there is a check on balance. (We rerolled once because it wasn't balanced.)
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #348 on: May 17, 2014, 06:47:35 pm »

@Ichi: The alignments were chosen with the roles.. mail-mi posted all the possible ones.  We only know that there is a check on balance. (We rerolled once because it wasn't balanced.)

Ok. So "balance" is somewhat up to interpretation then?
I guess I was just wondering if other large setups tend to have more scum in order to "balance" them. Maybe I'm wrong though.

xeiron

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #349 on: May 17, 2014, 06:48:18 pm »

Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?

It's not that I disagree, it's just that it's completely beside the point. The point is to find scum, not to teach people how to play the game. Voting for Nik because you find his town play to be anti-town is basically a policy vote, which are bad because you need to be playing for you wincon THIS game, not for future games.

That being said, I don't find the mini-wagon on Nik scummy. How many games has he been in ? HoC and that's it right ? Unless he is in the BM game but that's ongoing so no one can comment on it anyway. WHich means not that many people have played with him.

I'm completely null on Nik.  I don't think there's anything to indicate that he's any more likely to be town/scum than whatever the unmodified probability is.

Teproc does have a point.  We want to play to win this game and not to make players better.

Yeah. It probably wasn't the most productive thing. But hey, I'm not that experienced myself.
At any rate, it doesn't seem like much interaction surrounding this issue tells us much.

Hmm. Having never played a game with this many players, it's a different sort of experience. I seem to remember some sort of conversation like this in a game I was following. And I think people found the person asking it scummy, I'm gonna ask it anyway though.

With, what 16 people in the game, does the scumteam scale up in size? Like are we likely looking at a 4 person team, or is that not something we can determine?

Usually, 4 scum sounds about right with 16 players.
However, this is greater Idea Mafia. Our factions where decided from what cards we chose at the start of the game. The setup allows anything from 1 to 16 "scum" divided between up to five or six scum-factions.
We have really no idea what we are up against this game, and we should not assume that the game is balanced.
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