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Author Topic: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Werewolves Win!)  (Read 21775 times)

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Twistedarcher

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #275 on: May 16, 2014, 01:08:35 pm »

I'm talking more to Ichi and WW, who both immediately quoted the post and said it was scummy that I wanted a wagon on Axxle even though I think he's town (which isn't what I was saying). I'm fine with your vote although you are obviously wrong :)
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #276 on: May 16, 2014, 01:10:22 pm »

Right, I like wagons, and I'd like to have one on Axxle, BUT, I think he's town, so I don't want to vote him. Oh look, this is the exact same thing I said

What ? I get the feeling that you're not reading the same thread. I'm saying that you're scummy (among other things) for feeling the need to express this, not disagreeing with the sentiment itself.

I agree with this. I don't really see why town would post something like that.

Twistedarcher

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #277 on: May 16, 2014, 01:13:52 pm »

Sorry for being conversational in my posts? Like, if this game turns into only stating facts and opinions and reads, it becomes not fun pretty quickly.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #278 on: May 16, 2014, 01:16:29 pm »

I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked?  That's something town should do.  If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #279 on: May 16, 2014, 01:21:04 pm »

I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked?  That's something town should do.  If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.
I'm not saying he's scum. Just that I don't see much of a town rational behind what he posted.
I don't think anyone is advocating being silent, or playing a game with only impassive logical statements.
But why did TA post what he did? By the way, I know absolutely nothing about his meta. How long has he been playing?

Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #280 on: May 16, 2014, 01:22:14 pm »

I'm talking more to Ichi and WW, who both immediately quoted the post and said it was scummy that I wanted a wagon on Axxle even though I think he's town (which isn't what I was saying). I'm fine with your vote although you are obviously wrong :)

That's not what I said.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #281 on: May 16, 2014, 01:25:35 pm »

I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked?  That's something town should do.  If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.
I'm not saying he's scum. Just that I don't see much of a town rational behind what he posted.

Hey, I like wagons, so if I didn't have a town read on Axxle I'd probably vote him here. But, I DO have a town read on Axxle, so I'm not voting here.

Why could that not come from town? Why does this need to be a scum thought pattern?
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #282 on: May 16, 2014, 01:29:09 pm »

I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked?  That's something town should do.  If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.
I'm not saying he's scum. Just that I don't see much of a town rational behind what he posted.
I don't think anyone is advocating being silent, or playing a game with only impassive logical statements.
But why did TA post what he did? By the way, I know absolutely nothing about his meta. How long has he been playing?

I mean, I guess I'm saying in general, town should be as transparent as possible, just post whatever you're thinking all the time (relevant to the game of course, you don't need to tell us what you're eating for dinner tonight (but you can if you want)).  If town does this, then we can either pick out scum by the fact that they're not as open as town, or by identifying slips or things that look scummy.  So I'm saying, if the case on TA is that he gave us more information than he needed to, I think that would be towny, not scummy, because it means he's just saying whatever he's thinking at the time.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #283 on: May 16, 2014, 01:29:32 pm »

I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked?  That's something town should do.  If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.

The issue here is that it was relevant to how he has been playing, but on a different topic.  He was under suspicion by Teproc (and possibly more) of his play regarding Robz.  When I read his post my thought was "what?  Why would he say that?" And then it occurred to me that he's subtlely putting the idea out there that: "TA likes wagons. So we shouldn't ready anything into his Robz wagon, because that's an alignment-neutral TA characteristic".

So that's what makes it suspcious here.
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Teproc

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #284 on: May 16, 2014, 01:31:07 pm »

I mean, I guess I'm saying in general, town should be as transparent as possible, just post whatever you're thinking all the time (relevant to the game of course, you don't need to tell us what you're eating for dinner tonight (but you can if you want)).  If town does this, then we can either pick out scum by the fact that they're not as open as town, or by identifying slips or things that look scummy.

I strongly disagree.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #285 on: May 16, 2014, 01:35:48 pm »

Vote Count 1.3:


Witherweaver (1): A Drowned Kernal

Robz888 (3): chairs, Twistedarcher, Voltaire

Jotheonah (1): XerxesPraelor

Twistedarcher (3): Teproc, jotheonah, Axxle

Axxle (2): Xeiron, Witherweaver

Not Voting (6): Robz888, Ichimaru Gin, scott_pilgrim, Beyond Awesome, EgorK, Nik


With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on Wed. May 21 at 11 PM FT.

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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #286 on: May 16, 2014, 01:36:13 pm »

I mean, I guess I'm saying in general, town should be as transparent as possible, just post whatever you're thinking all the time (relevant to the game of course, you don't need to tell us what you're eating for dinner tonight (but you can if you want)).  If town does this, then we can either pick out scum by the fact that they're not as open as town, or by identifying slips or things that look scummy.

I strongly disagree.

Do you want to explain?  I mean, that is the impression I've gotten from better players over the several games that I've played.  I admit that I don't actually play like that as town, I actually do think a lot about what I'm saying, double check to make sure I haven't said anything that could misconstrued as scummy, and avoid giving reads on players without being prompted, but I've been trying to break myself of those things because it seems like people think that kind of play is bad for town (and I understand the reasoning for thinking that).

You might have other reasons for voting TA, that's fine (I think WW's explanation makes more sense), I'm just saying that I don't think an argument like "TA is scummy because he gave us some information about his thought process that he could have withheld" is reasonable.
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Teproc

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #287 on: May 16, 2014, 01:40:47 pm »

I mean, I guess I'm saying in general, town should be as transparent as possible, just post whatever you're thinking all the time (relevant to the game of course, you don't need to tell us what you're eating for dinner tonight (but you can if you want)).  If town does this, then we can either pick out scum by the fact that they're not as open as town, or by identifying slips or things that look scummy.

I strongly disagree.

Do you want to explain?  I mean, that is the impression I've gotten from better players over the several games that I've played.  I admit that I don't actually play like that as town, I actually do think a lot about what I'm saying, double check to make sure I haven't said anything that could misconstrued as scummy, and avoid giving reads on players without being prompted, but I've been trying to break myself of those things because it seems like people think that kind of play is bad for town (and I understand the reasoning for thinking that).

You might have other reasons for voting TA, that's fine (I think WW's explanation makes more sense), I'm just saying that I don't think an argument like "TA is scummy because he gave us some information about his thought process that he could have withheld" is reasonable.

I was making a point by not explaining why I disagreed precisely because it made you explain your position further. Not particularly useful here because this is pretty much theory talk, but you get the point.

Also it's a lot easier for scum to manipulate you if they know exactly what you're thinking.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #288 on: May 16, 2014, 05:56:30 pm »

I don't get the confusion, I have a town read on him so I'm not voting him, if I didn't have a town read on him I'd consider joining the wagon, what's unclear/confusing about that? You can ask me for clarification but when the original statement is clear you aren't gonna get anything by asking for repeated clarifications.

The confusing thing is that it seems unnecessary to point out the second part.

I also think I need to back off several of my reads, as they are on active players. I got rusty.

Mild scum read on s_p who I think has only popped in to state obvious things.

I mean, I guess I'm saying in general, town should be as transparent as possible, just post whatever you're thinking all the time (relevant to the game of course, you don't need to tell us what you're eating for dinner tonight (but you can if you want)).  If town does this, then we can either pick out scum by the fact that they're not as open as town, or by identifying slips or things that look scummy.

I strongly disagree.

Really? This is just another side of the "everyone should post a lot, scum will hang themselves if we give them enough rope" idea. I get that this can easily turn into thread spam, but that's a small, non-crippling flaw to work around.
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #289 on: May 16, 2014, 05:59:26 pm »

Unvote

TA seems town here, I'll probably have to reread to see who's coming out scummiest in this interaction.
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #290 on: May 16, 2014, 06:00:49 pm »

I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked?  That's something town should do.  If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.
I'm not saying he's scum. Just that I don't see much of a town rational behind what he posted.

Hey, I like wagons, so if I didn't have a town read on Axxle I'd probably vote him here. But, I DO have a town read on Axxle, so I'm not voting here.

Why could that not come from town? Why does this need to be a scum thought pattern?
Sometimes it's good to wagon on your townreads to verify things. Scientific method: Try to disprove your hypotheses rather than affirm them.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #291 on: May 16, 2014, 06:01:50 pm »

vote: axxle for what WW said.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #292 on: May 16, 2014, 06:18:52 pm »

Wait, so what's the case on Axxle? That he admitted that he was hoping for scum from his pick and that he talked about the connection between attack cards and scum roles?
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #293 on: May 16, 2014, 06:20:36 pm »

Wait, so what's the case on Axxle? That he admitted that he was hoping for scum from his pick and that he talked about the connection between attack cards and scum roles?

Yes, while not mentioning how it affected him. Normally I would think that this is not a scum trait because it is so obviously, but axxle fooled me like this last time.

Here's WW's original post:

I believe Axxle is our best bet for hitting scum today.

-He likes to play scum.
-He claimed to to pick the scummy card in the first draft.
-He had at least one scummy card to choose from in the second draft.

Vote: Axxle

I think this is the most compelling thing so far.  Axxle was also the first to bring up "discarding Attack cards make you less likely to be scum":

PPE 2: It's card of hard to analyze what people discarded because no one knew what they were.
Most? of the attack cards are scum roles and I would assume people could guess that. Those who discarded attack cards are probably? less likely to be scum and those who discarded nonattack cards are more likely? to be scum.

It's minor but maybe something to go on for now.

And he pointed out without prompting that he discarded an attack card the first time.

Vote: Axxle
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #294 on: May 16, 2014, 06:28:55 pm »

I guess I can see the reasoning there. I had initially read his high amount of activity at the beginning of the games as towny but looking it over there's a sort of nervous energy in his posts. Vote: Axxle

Also, request prod on EgorK
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #295 on: May 16, 2014, 06:32:05 pm »

The more I think about it the more I think this is the very specific situation where a D1 lynch based on meta is good.
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Teproc

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #296 on: May 16, 2014, 06:32:57 pm »

The more I think about it the more I think this is the very specific situation where a D1 lynch based on meta is good.

Yeah. I hate this, but it's true.
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Teproc

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #297 on: May 16, 2014, 06:33:59 pm »

Since we're prodding newbies : request a prod on Beyond Awesome.
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Nik

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #298 on: May 16, 2014, 06:37:38 pm »

VUnvote. Vote: Axxle
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Nik

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Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #299 on: May 16, 2014, 06:38:18 pm »

Sorry, I made a typo. Unvote. Vote: Axxle
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