Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 49  All

Author Topic: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Werewolves Win!)  (Read 157080 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #550 on: May 20, 2014, 10:55:34 pm »

Hmm. Well I never said "but I'm acting so town!". Those are words that you put in my mouth.
In the context of a different post I acknowledged a theory's general validity, but then said "I am town in this instance".

I'm only "acting" like I'm trying to figure stuff out? Look, I've been posting, voting people and analyzing the setup. You found my analysis of the setup scummy for reasons that are still semi-vague.
I will reiterate a previous point. Seriously, why would I as scum place myself conspicuously at #1 on the post count list? Why would I be working hard to interact with a bunch of people so I could provide a bunch of information for town after I flip?

I can see your point about not as much content. There hasn't really been much that has happened all day. A ton of people have been low activity. There was the Axxle wagon which got governed--and I think the day has lost a lot of steam since then. But then I talk about the setup and make what I think are some important observations, and you find me scummy for it. It's kind of like you're tunneling me.
It's not like I can really argue against or disprove your "feelings" about my alignment.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #551 on: May 20, 2014, 11:08:06 pm »

Hm. That's an issue too.  When the post count was posted you were surprised that you were so high, because you expected to be busy. But you're also using your high post count to indicate your towniness.  "Why would I as scum place myself..." Implies that you would be consciously trying to post a lot, when you yourself implied you weren't aware of how much you were posting.

And the "but I'm so town!" thing is how I read what you said, I know you didn't say those words.  But I mean, that's how I interpreted it. 

I don't find "why would I do this as scum?" very compelling either, because again as scum youre looking for things that you would do as town and not as scum.
Logged

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #552 on: May 20, 2014, 11:18:22 pm »

But would I have expressed this surprise as scum? (to use that argument again, I guess)

It just feels like you have this presupposition that I'm scum, and interpreting everything I do as falling on that side, while ignoring the rest.
Uh. Well, I've said what I've said. And wouldn't that go against how "calculated" things are. I mean, if I was scum again, I'm sure I'd play it a lot differently than the last time (which was my first game, so I was super inexperienced).

It's always interesting to me, because I've defended myself very heavily against every wagon that's ever formed on me as town, but that's normally what people find me the most scummy for. Whatever. I've said my peace.

Also when did townie things become scummy things? It's a lot of WIFOM. Like "he's the top on the post count, so he must be scum trying to appear super, super townie!" When in reality, scum likes to hide in the middle if they can, where they aren't noticed. So it really comes down to how you want to see things. There's some information, and you can interpret multiple ways. You choose to see a lot of semi-neutral behavior as scummy.

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #553 on: May 21, 2014, 12:31:46 am »

Sorry. I have a quick and probably stupid question. I have seen OMGUS come up a few times. What does that mean? Also, what does WIFOM mean? And, are there any other abbreviations I should know about?
Logged

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #554 on: May 21, 2014, 12:37:22 am »

Sorry. I have a quick and probably stupid question. I have seen OMGUS come up a few times. What does that mean? Also, what does WIFOM mean? And, are there any other abbreviations I should know about?
Oh no. Feel free to ask any/all questions. I was completely lost my first game and asked a bunch of questions.

WIFOM means "Wine in front of me". It means that an argument is circular, and really doesn't have a solid foundation. Like in the film the Princess Bride (I'm not sure if you've seen it, if you have you'll understand).

OMGUS means "Oh my gosh you suck!". Basically it's when you vote for someone only because they voted for you. It's like tit for tat. It's normally seen as a scummy behavior since it means that you aren't voting based off of reads or logic, but retaliation.

EgorK

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 272
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #555 on: May 21, 2014, 04:22:58 am »

Well, we have enough time for Nik? I am also ok with scott lynch through would prefer Nik
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #556 on: May 21, 2014, 07:51:50 am »

Vote: Nik
Logged

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #557 on: May 21, 2014, 09:34:02 am »

I have no preference between Scott and Nik. Am I allowed to use the dice button in forum mafia? (I vaguely remember there being a discussion a while back on whether that was ok for some reason)
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

chairs

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Why don't you have a seat over there...
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #558 on: May 21, 2014, 10:06:59 am »

Sorry about the V/LA guys, I'll catch up ASAP but can't do so at work.

xeiron

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #559 on: May 21, 2014, 10:07:53 am »

I have no preference between Scott and Nik. Am I allowed to use the dice button in forum mafia? (I vaguely remember there being a discussion a while back on whether that was ok for some reason)

I think it is OK. At least I have seen it used before without protests (mostly in RVS).
But there might have been a discussion concluding otherwise that I have not seen.
Logged

A Drowned Kernel

  • 2015 World Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1067
  • They/Them
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #560 on: May 21, 2014, 10:13:14 am »

WIFOM means "Wine in front of me". It means that an argument is circular, and really doesn't have a solid foundation. Like in the film the Princess Bride (I'm not sure if you've seen it, if you have you'll understand).

I was under the impression that WIFOM was specifically about double-guessing your reactions because maybe scum anticipated them. Like "player x is doing something that's in their meta for town, but they know that that's their meta and so maybe are doing that on purpose to trick me, but maybe the player making that argument is actually scum trying to trick me into lynch a townie," etc., etc. The whole "I know that you know that I know" thing.
Logged
The perfect engine
But it will never go off
Three piles are empty

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #561 on: May 21, 2014, 10:30:36 am »

Ok. Evens Scott, odds Nik unless someone can sway me one way or another.
'' is not a valid dice string!
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #562 on: May 21, 2014, 10:30:55 am »

let's try that again
'6' is not a valid dice string!
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #563 on: May 21, 2014, 10:31:07 am »

Rolled 1d6 : 2, total 2
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #564 on: May 21, 2014, 10:31:55 am »

Cool. Vote: scott
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #565 on: May 21, 2014, 10:34:40 am »

WIFOM means "Wine in front of me". It means that an argument is circular, and really doesn't have a solid foundation. Like in the film the Princess Bride (I'm not sure if you've seen it, if you have you'll understand).

I was under the impression that WIFOM was specifically about double-guessing your reactions because maybe scum anticipated them. Like "player x is doing something that's in their meta for town, but they know that that's their meta and so maybe are doing that on purpose to trick me, but maybe the player making that argument is actually scum trying to trick me into lynch a townie," etc., etc. The whole "I know that you know that I know" thing.
But isn't what you're describing somewhat like circular reasoning? e.g. The whole argument is based on an assumption which kind of supports itself?

The wiki describes it as circular reasoning, but you're right that it is more limited to specific interactions.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #566 on: May 21, 2014, 10:38:36 am »

Well, is Scott's vote based on him lurking, or him doing scummy stuff?  He's VLA and has posted there.
Logged

AndrewisFTTW

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1129
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #567 on: May 21, 2014, 10:40:31 am »

Vote Count 1.11


Robz888 (3): chairs, Teproc, Ichimaru Gin

Nik (5): scott_pilgrim, EgorK, Axxle, Beyond Awesome, Witherweaver

scott_pilgrim (7): Voltaire, Robz888, A Drowned Kernal, XerxesPraelor, xeiron, Twistedarcher, jotheoah

chairs (1): Nik
 


With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Wed. May 21 at 11 PM FT. That is in almost 12 hours.

Logged
Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #568 on: May 21, 2014, 10:42:04 am »

Well, is Scott's vote based on him lurking, or him doing scummy stuff?  He's VLA and has posted there.
I'm glad someone besides me finally noticed this.

Yeah, I seriously do not get at all the votes on sp.

Voltaire

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 957
  • flavor text
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #569 on: May 21, 2014, 10:42:33 am »

Do not like a Nik lynch at all.

Nik will presumably vote SP for self-preservation, which means we need one more for a SP lynch.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #570 on: May 21, 2014, 10:43:06 am »

WIFOM means "Wine in front of me". It means that an argument is circular, and really doesn't have a solid foundation. Like in the film the Princess Bride (I'm not sure if you've seen it, if you have you'll understand).

I was under the impression that WIFOM was specifically about double-guessing your reactions because maybe scum anticipated them. Like "player x is doing something that's in their meta for town, but they know that that's their meta and so maybe are doing that on purpose to trick me, but maybe the player making that argument is actually scum trying to trick me into lynch a townie," etc., etc. The whole "I know that you know that I know" thing.
But isn't what you're describing somewhat like circular reasoning? e.g. The whole argument is based on an assumption which kind of supports itself?

The wiki describes it as circular reasoning, but you're right that it is more limited to specific interactions.

It's not quite circular reasoning in the sense that:

(1) I want to show  A=>B
(2) I assume A
(3) I get B

It's circular in the sense that you an always go one step further in the line of thinking to get the opposite result.  "I think you would put the poison in my cup because <blah>".  "But you would know that I would think that, so you would put the poison in your cup."  "But again, you know that I would make that deduction, so you must have put the poison in my cup". Etc.

At some point you try to escape from the circle by figuring out which of the ones is most likely by "reading" your opponent.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #571 on: May 21, 2014, 10:44:31 am »

Do not like a Nik lynch at all.

Nik will presumably vote SP for self-preservation, which means we need one more for a SP lynch.

What about Robz?
Logged

Voltaire

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 957
  • flavor text
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #572 on: May 21, 2014, 10:45:16 am »

Well, is Scott's vote based on him lurking, or him doing scummy stuff?  He's VLA and has posted there.
I'm glad someone besides me finally noticed this.

Yeah, I seriously do not get at all the votes on sp.

He was blending in when he was around too, I have a post about it and everything.

If SP doesn't happen I will vote Robz to prevent Nik from happening.
Logged

xeiron

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #573 on: May 21, 2014, 10:45:31 am »

I can see the case on NIK.

He has been very quick to jump from wagon to wagon, usually sheeping whatever case is in the wind at the moment. Most times he gives little to no explanations on why he placed a vote. He is also quick to unvote or vote elsewhere when confronted with his votes. This gives the impression that Nik is not really looking for scum, but looking for any lynch that is not himself.

It is also interesting to note that Nik seems more sure about his reads that he have reasons to be. Robz is definitely Mafia, after having made one post. Ichimaru is very scummy after asking questions, then backing off. This gives the impression that Nik is faking his reads as scum often do.

There is one thing that gives me a pause, though, is that Nik played just like this in House of Cards Mafia. He was town in that game. He could very well town here too. Actually I have a slight townread on him

For reference, here is (almost) all of Nik's posts where he votes or unvotes. 9/18 is half of his posts.
Vote: Volitare

Also, Nik. Why vote Voltaire And then just leave?
Do you mean not give a reason? My reason is that earlier in the thread, I thought Volitare claimed he was Mafia, based on this:
Quote
I AM IN MAFIA AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN
Now I realize he was talking about the game Mafia, not the Mafia faction. So, Unvote.

Vote:Robz888
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?

The thing that is making Robz seem more and more scummier to me is that he hasn't posted anything. If he's lurking, he would at least see all the votes on him and would probably offer an explanation...but he hasn't. Is he just not paying attention?

I think Robz is busy with RL stuff (I think he posted in the VLA thread), so not responding to the wagon right away is expected regardless of his alignment.
Oh. In that case, Unvote.

VUnvote. Vote: Axxle

Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Not only did he vote for me only because he thought I wasn't playing right, but he also claims he thinks people are scum, questions them, then backs off. Very scummy.

Vote: Chairs
I think all he posted was an /in. Lurker.

Chairs has problmes with internet according to his posts in DominionLeague

I found Nik behavior rather scummy, so Vote: Nik
Oh. In that case, Vote: Scott for lurking.

Also, vote: Chairs.
Logged

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #574 on: May 21, 2014, 10:46:38 am »

@ww

It's been a little while since I took logic. But after (3) wouldn't you have B-->A
?
Otherwise it's just one assumption that leads to a single conclusion.

PPE: 2
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 49  All
 

Page created in 0.225 seconds with 19 queries.