Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 [19] 20 21 ... 49  All

Author Topic: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Werewolves Win!)  (Read 21816 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #450 on: May 20, 2014, 10:41:37 am »

is there any possibility of mafia daychat in this setup?
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

XerxesPraelor

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1069
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #451 on: May 20, 2014, 10:50:57 am »

is there any possibility of mafia daychat in this setup?
That's an odd question. I'm pretty sure there isn't. Where did you get the idea from?
Logged

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #452 on: May 20, 2014, 10:55:32 am »

Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.

I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #453 on: May 20, 2014, 11:02:07 am »

Doing some rereading.

I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do.  I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style.  But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.

vote: Nik

Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik

This says absolutely nothing about his play this game. Very little content or analysis.

vote:ichi
Hmm. Looks like OMGUS to me.
Anyway, I think I explained my vote on Nik fairly well. I believe he deserves some pressure. He's acting about the same in this game as he ever has (mildly scummy), and I think his wagon can give us some useful information. Why do you have a problem with this?

How is this OMGUS?  You talked about Nik, and not about TA at all, and TA interpreted something from your statement.  I don't get this.

And the same to the following:

Quote from: Ichimaru
Seriously. This post just reads vindictive to me. Look, sorry if I offended you. I was just expressing my opinion about what you posted.
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2625
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #454 on: May 20, 2014, 11:03:20 am »

Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.

I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.

I mean, I was in DC last week, I've been extremely busy with IRL stuff, the end of Forum Survivor, and briefly there were three games going at once. This was the most daunting and least essential game.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #455 on: May 20, 2014, 11:03:45 am »

Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.

I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.

If you think the latter is the more likely case, why bother bringing up the other idea?
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #456 on: May 20, 2014, 11:08:56 am »

Mmmmmmm I want to vote for all the "big" wagons!

So I noticed Voltaire pointed this out two posts before TA did his "I want to vote for awesomewagon but the awesomewagon is on town".  This makes TA's statement less of a "why did he bring up his love of wagons out of the blue?", and therefore reduces suspicion. 

Why did you want to vote for all the big wagons, Voltaire?
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #457 on: May 20, 2014, 11:11:22 am »

I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do.  I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style.  But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.

vote: Nik

Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik

Ichimaru, Do you think saying "I do not really suspect Nik, but votes to put pressure on him" is the best way to put pressure on Nik?

This is an excellent point.  Ichi's vote comes off as very hedged: "Hey, he's probably town here, but he's not playing like good town so my vote is justified."  It provides a convenient excuse if the Nik wagon took off and he ended up flipping town.
Logged

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #458 on: May 20, 2014, 11:12:51 am »

Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.

I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.

If you think the latter is the more likely case, why bother bringing up the other idea?

I'm a big believer in putting things out there that other people might do something else with. Also, I asked a question, someone asked me why I asked it, I answered, etc.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #459 on: May 20, 2014, 11:18:22 am »

Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.

I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.

If you think the latter is the more likely case, why bother bringing up the other idea?

I'm a big believer in putting things out there that other people might do something else with. Also, I asked a question, someone asked me why I asked it, I answered, etc.

My referring to "bringing up the other idea" was to your original posting of your question, which I didn't see as in response to anything, not for the explanation to Xerxes' question.
Logged

Voltaire

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 957
  • flavor text
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #460 on: May 20, 2014, 11:27:48 am »

Mmmmmmm I want to vote for all the "big" wagons!

So I noticed Voltaire pointed this out two posts before TA did his "I want to vote for awesomewagon but the awesomewagon is on town".  This makes TA's statement less of a "why did he bring up his love of wagons out of the blue?", and therefore reduces suspicion. 

Why did you want to vote for all the big wagons, Voltaire?

Because I liked all the cases at the time.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #461 on: May 20, 2014, 11:37:48 am »

Vote: Ichimaru

What I said before, and this post sets off a couple of bells for me:

Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.

There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
I can see the logic behind this argument. Truth is, I haven't really found anyone really scummy so far. There have been a few people I've had mild scumreads on, pushed them, and they've responded well enough. In a setup this large, I think it could be easier for scum to hide just in the sheer number of players (and low participation players) to avoid attention.
It makes things different as well, in that if there are multiple scumteams running around, they can't say for sure that someone is town, because they wouldn't know if they weren't part of their particular scum faction.
Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions? You are right that I have backed off after minimal response, but I am town in this case. Trying to have interactions with the most people and pushing each one I find a little suspicious is my response to a setup this size.

PPE: 2

Bolding is mine.  The way this is said makes it seem like it comes from someone on one of said scum teams.

Also, "Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions?" is kind of like "But I'm acting like town!". 
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #462 on: May 20, 2014, 11:39:01 am »

Mmmmmmm I want to vote for all the "big" wagons!

So I noticed Voltaire pointed this out two posts before TA did his "I want to vote for awesomewagon but the awesomewagon is on town".  This makes TA's statement less of a "why did he bring up his love of wagons out of the blue?", and therefore reduces suspicion. 

Why did you want to vote for all the big wagons, Voltaire?

Because I liked all the cases at the time.

One of those was Axxle, but he received a pardon.  Do you still like any of the other cases?
Logged

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #463 on: May 20, 2014, 12:02:37 pm »

Doing some rereading.

I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do.  I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style.  But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.

vote: Nik

Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik

This says absolutely nothing about his play this game. Very little content or analysis.

vote:ichi
Hmm. Looks like OMGUS to me.
Anyway, I think I explained my vote on Nik fairly well. I believe he deserves some pressure. He's acting about the same in this game as he ever has (mildly scummy), and I think his wagon can give us some useful information. Why do you have a problem with this?

How is this OMGUS?  You talked about Nik, and not about TA at all, and TA interpreted something from your statement.  I don't get this.

And the same to the following:


Quote from: Ichimaru
Seriously. This post just reads vindictive to me. Look, sorry if I offended you. I was just expressing my opinion about what you posted.
I had been riding TA relatively hard, and some of his responses made me feel like he was ticked. If you go back, he responded to this and clarified that I was misinterpreting his behavior--although he didn't seem to think my interpretation was that irrational or anything, it was just misguided.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #464 on: May 20, 2014, 12:04:34 pm »

Oh, you were referring to the previous discussion about his comments on the Axxle wagon.  I see.
Logged

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #465 on: May 20, 2014, 12:06:46 pm »

Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.

I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.

If you think the latter is the more likely case, why bother bringing up the other idea?

I'm a big believer in putting things out there that other people might do something else with. Also, I asked a question, someone asked me why I asked it, I answered, etc.

My referring to "bringing up the other idea" was to your original posting of your question, which I didn't see as in response to anything, not for the explanation to Xerxes' question.

WHat's your point? Not everything has to be responding to something else.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #466 on: May 20, 2014, 12:07:29 pm »

Vote: Ichimaru

What I said before, and this post sets off a couple of bells for me:

Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.

There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
I can see the logic behind this argument. Truth is, I haven't really found anyone really scummy so far. There have been a few people I've had mild scumreads on, pushed them, and they've responded well enough. In a setup this large, I think it could be easier for scum to hide just in the sheer number of players (and low participation players) to avoid attention.
It makes things different as well, in that if there are multiple scumteams running around, they can't say for sure that someone is town, because they wouldn't know if they weren't part of their particular scum faction.
Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions? You are right that I have backed off after minimal response, but I am town in this case. Trying to have interactions with the most people and pushing each one I find a little suspicious is my response to a setup this size.

PPE: 2

Bolding is mine.  The way this is said makes it seem like it comes from someone on one of said scum teams.

Also, "Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions?" is kind of like "But I'm acting like town!".
Hmm. I missed this post. I don't feel that either of your points make much sense. Earlier, someone (Xeiron I think) mentioned the likelihood of multiple scumteams when I was asking questions about the setup. Also, why would the scumteams be aware of each other? I think it's most likely that they wouldn't, so your accusation of this "sounding like someone on one of the scumteams" means that you must think (know?) that they are aware of each other.
Secondly, this was a response to ADK where he was assuming that scum would know who was town; however, if there are multiple scumteams (which is likely from what I've gathered), this isn't true.

PPE: ww

Voltaire

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 957
  • flavor text
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #467 on: May 20, 2014, 12:08:47 pm »

Mmmmmmm I want to vote for all the "big" wagons!

So I noticed Voltaire pointed this out two posts before TA did his "I want to vote for awesomewagon but the awesomewagon is on town".  This makes TA's statement less of a "why did he bring up his love of wagons out of the blue?", and therefore reduces suspicion. 

Why did you want to vote for all the big wagons, Voltaire?

Because I liked all the cases at the time.

One of those was Axxle, but he received a pardon.  Do you still like any of the other cases?

I think Axxle is still scum, but I can't do anything about it today. I don't like Robz anymore, I forget what the other cases were.

You're making a good case on IG but I'm hesitant because D1 scum reads based on contradictions are just usually so bad...yours I think I like though? I would switch if IG got more popular.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #468 on: May 20, 2014, 12:11:06 pm »

Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.

I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.

If you think the latter is the more likely case, why bother bringing up the other idea?

I'm a big believer in putting things out there that other people might do something else with. Also, I asked a question, someone asked me why I asked it, I answered, etc.

My referring to "bringing up the other idea" was to your original posting of your question, which I didn't see as in response to anything, not for the explanation to Xerxes' question.

WHat's your point? Not everything has to be responding to something else.

Because "Also, I asked a question, someone asked me why I asked it, I answered, etc." is an explanation of why you made the second post, not why you posted the first one.  But you explained why you posted the first one as well with "I'm a big believer in putting things out there that other people might do something else with.", so it's kind of moot.  I was just explaining because I thought there was a misinterpretation, I wasn't pressing the point further.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #469 on: May 20, 2014, 12:12:23 pm »

Vote: Ichimaru

What I said before, and this post sets off a couple of bells for me:

Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.

There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
I can see the logic behind this argument. Truth is, I haven't really found anyone really scummy so far. There have been a few people I've had mild scumreads on, pushed them, and they've responded well enough. In a setup this large, I think it could be easier for scum to hide just in the sheer number of players (and low participation players) to avoid attention.
It makes things different as well, in that if there are multiple scumteams running around, they can't say for sure that someone is town, because they wouldn't know if they weren't part of their particular scum faction.
Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions? You are right that I have backed off after minimal response, but I am town in this case. Trying to have interactions with the most people and pushing each one I find a little suspicious is my response to a setup this size.

PPE: 2

Bolding is mine.  The way this is said makes it seem like it comes from someone on one of said scum teams.

Also, "Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions?" is kind of like "But I'm acting like town!".
Hmm. I missed this post. I don't feel that either of your points make much sense. Earlier, someone (Xeiron I think) mentioned the likelihood of multiple scumteams when I was asking questions about the setup. Also, why would the scumteams be aware of each other? I think it's most likely that they wouldn't, so your accusation of this "sounding like someone on one of the scumteams" means that you must think (know?) that they are aware of each other.
Secondly, this was a response to ADK where he was assuming that scum would know who was town; however, if there are multiple scumteams (which is likely from what I've gathered), this isn't true.

PPE: ww

I don't understand what you're saying about the scumteams being aware of each other.  Where did that come from?
Logged

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #470 on: May 20, 2014, 12:15:03 pm »

You're making a good case on IG but I'm hesitant because D1 scum reads based on contradictions are just usually so bad...yours I think I like though? I would switch if IG got more popular.

Let me help you with that.

Vote: IG

Here's something circumstantial. He's got RL stuff going on (finals) but he's still at the top of the post count tower, and he's fairly new to the game. A new person posting a lot is a null tell, but I find myself more motivated to post in general in a game where I'm scum.

There's also "but I am town in this case." Which just sounds very forced and unnatural.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #471 on: May 20, 2014, 12:19:32 pm »

ADK made some point about scum knowing who was town.

I made that point that since it seemed likely that there were multiple scumteams (from what Xeiron had said and what I gather from the setup), that this would not be the case. Why would scumteams be aware of each other and know who scum in other factions were? My guess is they wouldn't, therefore they don't really know who is town since they don't know if there are other scumteams out there. So making gambits on someone being town is more risky for them, as they could flip as scum from a different faction.

You took this statement as something that "sounds like it would come from a member of one of said scumteams", which makes no sense to me for reasons I have already outlined in my last post.

So basically you are finding me scummy for paying attention to the setup and trying to make what I believe to be rational inferences. This gives me more of a town-read on ADK I think, since I'd expect scum would discuss other factions and thus be more aware. Unless that was just a really good fake town-slip.

PPE: jotheonoah

AndrewisFTTW

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1129
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #472 on: May 20, 2014, 12:22:31 pm »

Vote Count 1.8


Robz888 (2): chairs, Twistedarcher

Nik (3): Axxle, scott_pilgrim, EgorK

Beyond Awesome (1): Teproc

scott_pilgrim (5): Voltaire, Robz888, A Drowned Kernal, Nik, XerxesPraelor

chairs (1): Xeiron

Ichimaru Gin (2): Witherweaver, jotheonah

Not Voting (2): Beyond Awesome, Ichimaru Gin


With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Wed. May 21 at 11 PM FT.

Logged
Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #473 on: May 20, 2014, 12:22:57 pm »

IG: apologies if I'm wrong about you being new, I obv. don't keep up with all the games.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2625
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
    • View Profile
Re: Mafia XLIV: Donald's Greater Idea Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #474 on: May 20, 2014, 12:23:05 pm »

You're making a good case on IG but I'm hesitant because D1 scum reads based on contradictions are just usually so bad...yours I think I like though? I would switch if IG got more popular.

Let me help you with that.

Vote: IG

Here's something circumstantial. He's got RL stuff going on (finals) but he's still at the top of the post count tower, and he's fairly new to the game. A new person posting a lot is a null tell, but I find myself more motivated to post in general in a game where I'm scum.

There's also "but I am town in this case." Which just sounds very forced and unnatural.

I don't think he's really new enough for this to hold, though. This is like at least his third serious game.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 [19] 20 21 ... 49  All
 

Page created in 0.117 seconds with 19 queries.