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Author Topic: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion  (Read 28010 times)

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Kirian

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GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« on: April 19, 2014, 01:15:18 pm »
+14

The time is here.  We have our top 16, and it's time to finish this off.

The final bracket is here:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkuKfENQMyHadE9iM3Zzd3g4WVBrYV9Mb2ZWOWM5aEE&usp=drive_web#gid=17

This is the same spreadsheet, and it also has final standings (uncorrected for defaults, etc.)

Go ahead and post results and discussion both in this thread; there will be fewer matches in all four rounds here than in any given Swiss round, so keeping them all nice and neat isn't as important.

--------

IMPORTANT:  Because this is a playoff, drawn matches are not going to work.  If you're tied after 6 matches, you may do one of the following, which you should agree on in advance:

(1)  Play a seventh game.  The higher seed will be first player.  This is the default except for the final match.
(2)  Continue playing in the same manner as usual until one player, after an even number of games, leads by 1 or more* game points.

While I'd love to see a Connor/McEnroe style tiebreaker set, especially if it's streamed, I don't really expect any pairing to take option (2).

--------

The finals match is special.  It will use the finalists of the Design Contest for kingdoms.  The winning player will need to have 4 points after 6 games, or 4.5 points after 7 or 8 games.  If the match is tied 4-4, the finals will continue via option 2 above.  No sudden-death tiebreaker games.

Obviously, that may require more than one session.  If it does, the players should stop at a tied score, and start from that tied score at their next session.

It is crazy of me to hope we'll see the finals match take 12-14 games? :)

--------

I want to give a couple of BIG shout-outs here.  Qvist and AdamH acted as volunteers through the whole tournament, filling in scores on the spreadsheet, which allowed me the time to ignore the individual scores and look at the big picture.  Please find a post or three of theirs and give them some +1s!

I also want to give a separate thank you to Max_D, who is way down at the bottom.  A lot of people drop out early when they're sitting on 2 or 3 points after 4 rounds.  Max won his first match by a default, and his best actual played match was a single tie--yet he stuck around and played his final match despite being 0-4-1 against human opponents.

--------

All right, qualifiers.  Round 1 is due by next Monday (28 April) at the normal times.  Do, or do not.  There is no try.  Good luck.

--------

*This previously read "1.5 or more," but was changed as discussed further down the thread.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 09:04:42 pm by Kirian »
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hsiale

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2014, 01:38:27 pm »
+4

While I'd love to see a Connor/McEnroe style tiebreaker set, especially if it's streamed, I don't really expect any pairing to take option (2).
Maybe even a Mahut-Isner style one?
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2014, 08:03:51 pm »
+1

3 points after 4 games are still a winning condition? Or is best to 3.5 from now on? I advocate for the former.

EDIT: More questions.

Option (1) of tie-breaking, assuming a shared victory on the 7th game, goes on simply alternating starting player until someone is the only victor, right?

Option (2), why is a lead of 1.5 games required? I think the winner should be anyone with a lead after an even number of games.

Also, you say tha the finals may require more than one session. Is it ok to use more than one session for other games, right? In case of necessity or technical issues or whatever.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 08:13:45 pm by soulnet »
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2014, 09:03:35 pm »
+1

3 points after 4 games are still a winning condition? Or is best to 3.5 from now on? I advocate for the former.

Yes, going 3-0 or 3-1 is still a win condition.

Quote
Option (1) of tie-breaking, assuming a shared victory on the 7th game, goes on simply alternating starting player until someone is the only victor, right?

Yes, that's correct.

Quote
Option (2), why is a lead of 1.5 games required? I think the winner should be anyone with a lead after an even number of games.

Because I wasn't thinking about the numbers closely when I wrote that.  A tie and a win from a 3-3 tie is 1.5 points for the winner, but also gives the loser 0.5 points.  So that ought to say 1 point, not 1.5.  I'll change that when I'm finished here.

Quote
Also, you say tha the finals may require more than one session. Is it ok to use more than one session for other games, right? In case of necessity or technical issues or whatever.

Oh yes, obviously.  I know a lot of matches throughout the season get played in two sessions just because of time constraints.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2014, 09:35:10 pm »
+8

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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 04:32:43 pm »
+29

AdamH defeats SheCantSayNo

AdamH 4, SheCantSayNo 2

Entire stream video on Twitch
Video Playlist on YouTube

So I'm up against one of the best people in the world and my tournament life is on the line (well it's going to be that way the rest of the time). I've played several games against SCSN before, most of them on video or stream, and I can count the ones I've won on one hand. He's the kind of opponent where you remember all your wins against them because he's that good -- I'll certainly never forget any of mine.

We agreed before the match that we'd use point counter and disallow the use of Black Market, Tournament, Knights, Swindler, and IGG. The Kingdom Generator was very useful for making this happen seamlessly and making it so I didn't have to look at the kingdom before starting the game, so shout-outs to AI and everyone who worked on Salvager for making that possible. I'm glad both SCSN and I could have a customized Dominion experience that we were both relatively happy with.

In matches against people like this (AI, MQ, Robz) I've gone into them previously with the attitude that I just want to win one game and I'd be happy. I end up playing poorly and not winning any games, so I decided to not let my self-confidence take a hit at any point. Play good Dominion and good things will happen to you.


Game 1: AdamH 48, SheCantSayNo 61
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Lighthouse, Chancellor, Cutpurse, Monument, Wandering Minstrel, Cache, Embassy, Jester, Minion, Vault

Strong Big Money enablers here with Embassy and Vault, but I talk myself out of that in favor of a Minion engine that plays lots of Monuments, even with no +Buy or trashing. It's a mirror and in that case it's time to green before you can really start playing Monuments. I win the Minion split 6-4 but things don't seem to line up for me quite as well as they do for him (maybe because he got more Lighthouses?) and he has a good position throughout the endgame, enough to take advantage of just one bad shuffle for me and win comfortably.

I don't have the chat from this game but some people told me later that I misplayed this one pretty badly. I'm not really sure what I could have done better -- I think going for Monuments has to be better than not going for them at all, maybe I should have found more time for more Lighthouses?


Game 2: SheCantSayNo 46, AdamH 38
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Lighthouse, Secret Chamber, Oasis, Sage, Horse Traders, Market, Royal Seal, Harem, Hoard, King's Court

So there's King's Court but no trashing and really no draw. With Horse Traders into Harem/Hoard as a Big Money enabler, it's just a stronger and more consistent option, so we both go for it. He gets Sages to open and I get Silvers (I still like Silvers better) but he ends up winning the game anyways.


Game 3: SheCantSayNo 34, AdamH 49
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Cellar, Embargo, Pearl Diver, Tunnel, Militia, Mining Village, Navigator, Count, Laboratory, Nobles

My worst nightmares are starting to come true: I'm down 0-2 and Tunnel is clearly a monster. I open 2/5 which has to be pretty fortunate, thin down quickly with the help of Labs and start to mass Golds. I made one questionable decision after drawing a bunch with Labs and discarding two Tunnels to trash my hand, which contained three of my last five remaining starting cards and one Gold. I could have taken the money and got a Province instead, and it's not clear here what the right move was, but I kind of like this play (imagine that, I like building more instead of greening).

For the rest of the game, the chat became hilarious here, saying I should trash my hand (with like 3 Golds and multiple Provinces) every time I played Count. You people are weird.

Anyways, SCSN does some really weird stuff by trashing his Militia at a weird moment, Embargoing Provinces once and going for lesser VP cards that I still don't quite understand. I have to convince myself that I'm playing better and just to stick with my strategy, which I do and I'm able to win comfortably.


Game 4: AdamH 26, SheCantSayNo 17
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Oracle, Island, Navigator, Noble Brigand, Nomad Camp, Sea Hag, Taxman, Worker's Village, Highway, Venture

Highway+Worker's Village looks pretty sexy here, with Oracle for extra draw, but there's Sea Hag and the only thinning is Island. So the attack is very important early, but how do you go out of it? Do you go for a Highway megaturn or do you go for more money? I don't think the engine is explosive enough, and I hit a couple of $6 turns so I load up on Golds while just making an appearance on the Highway split while SCSN goes fully for the engine. I get a few Provinces ahead and his deck is starting to come together, but with Curses and Highways already out he's limited in the components he can buy, and gives me an opening to pile out Oracles with a small lead.

The chat seemed to think that a second Sea Hag was good here, I think Island is just as good as a second Hag, myself. Also they didn't like me getting Ventures without getting Taxman, but by the time I was able to divert a buy to get a Taxman it was probably too late to make use out of it (maybe this is wrong?) and I think Venture was better than Highway for me by that point, particularly after the Highways were gone. My deck at that point was focused on playing Golds, which were my key cards, so they couldn't be skipped by Venture. Is this good reasoning?

If SCSN had played his second-to-last turn differently, namely buying one less Oracle, the endgame could have gone *very* differently, and a win for him would have sealed the match here.


Game 5: AdamH 89, SheCantSayNo 74
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Pearl Diver, Stonemason, Bishop, Fortress, Quarry, Remodel, Thief, Walled Village, Adventurer, Fairgrounds

Bishop/Fortress mirror. There's no draw so you can't do more than 12 points per turn (or can you? See below) so as first player and getting some fortunate draws I'm able to get set up to the point where I'm in a position to comfortably pile out Pearl Divers and actually win the game with enough of a lead (none of this buying-the-second-to-last-card-results-in-a-loss-for-both-players stalemate that can come up). SCSN makes a questionable (or is it? See below) play by buying a fifth Bishop, allowing for potential stall turns.

Anyways, with "mate-in-two" looming I decide to stop clicking the correct cards, which squanders my lead and puts us back into stalemate territory. Fortunately for me, with five stop cards in his deck, SCSN eventually hits a stall turn where he doesn't score enough points to stay in contention and I'm able to pile out at this point.

FEATURE REQUEST: with (or without, even) card stacking enabled, always display cards in hand in the same order (alphabetical? Doesn't really matter) so that my stupid Fortress doesn't do that stupid thing that caused the stupid misclick

But anyways, there's a really interesting interaction that I didn't notice until after the game was over with Pearl Diver. If you use your Pearl Divers to make the bottom card of your deck a Bishop, you can potentially get 13 points per turn instead of just 12 if you buy a fifth Bishop. I wonder if the risk of this is enough to justify the increased payload -- might be some interesting math behind that.


Game 6: SheCantSayNo 24, AdamH 36
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Native Village, Great Hall, Market Square, Workshop, Envoy, JackOfAllTrades, Band of Misfits, Festival, Merchant Ship, Forge

Jack-in-an-Engine vs. Jack+lots of money enablers. This game was amazing (for me, at least) to play and to have it be the one that gets me the big upset is gravy. This game is totally going into the article ;D.

His deck is really good, getting three Provinces by T10, but I don't panic and manage to score 36 points in just two big turns and that's enough to take it down on T13. This game and the context of this match is probably the best moment I've ever had playing Dominion and I'm really proud of the way this happened.





I compete in tournaments so I can play matches like this. I would have been happy to just keep this close but to win is just amazing, especially coming back from 0-2. Thanks to SCSN for the games.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 11:37:26 am by AdamH »
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 04:39:51 pm »
+7

Okay that is a pretty huge upset.
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GeoLib

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 05:13:42 pm »
0

Because I wasn't thinking about the numbers closely when I wrote that.  A tie and a win from a 3-3 tie is 1.5 points for the winner, but also gives the loser 0.5 points.  So that ought to say 1 point, not 1.5.  I'll change that when I'm finished here.

Is it ever possible to be ahead after an even number of games and not ahead by 1 point or more? How would you end up half a point ahead? I think the rule should just read: "until one player leads after an even number of games."
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 05:14:54 pm by GeoLib »
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2014, 05:15:21 pm »
+1

Is it ever possible to be ahead after an even number of games and not ahead by 1 point or more? How would you end up half a point ahead?

The difference is always an integer number of points. I guess Kirian wanted to be as close to the original text as possible.
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JacquesTheBard

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 10:26:48 pm »
+3

How fitting that Adam should win the final glorious game with outstanding use of Jack in an engine.  ;D
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 11:16:36 pm »
+1

How fitting that Adam should win the final glorious game with outstanding use of Jack in an engine.  ;D

That game is totally going into the article  ;D
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 03:29:36 am »
+9

ragingduckd defeats Titandrake

Game 1: ragingduckd wins



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Vagrant, Forager, Hermit, Smugglers, Feodum, Scout, Butcher, Cartographer, Expand
I mostly played Butcher-BM while Titandrake went for Feodums with one Hermit, one Butcher, and a Forager that maybe ought to have been another Hermit.  I originally figured there wasn't enough time for Feodum against Butcher-BM, but by T12 I was feeling pretty nervous, so I snagged the last two Feodums.  It was close all the way and I had to gamble on breaking PPR while 6 VP behind.  Luckily, Titandrake didn't have $8 in hand and I was able to end it next turn.

Game 2 titandrake wins



Code: [Select]
Vineyard, Candlestick Maker, Cellar, Stonemason, Sage, Watchtower, Philosopher's Stone, Salvager, Spice Merchant, Harvest
We both went Vineyards, but we piled up the CMs first.  Looking back, I'm pretty sure that I should have gone double-Sage with my SM overbuy on T5.  By T12, Titandrake had a small lead on actions, but it was still anyone's game.  I threw everything away by Salvaging my Potion instead of buying a fourth Vineyard.  I don't think I can really explain what went wrong in my brain to make me think this was a good idea.

Game 3: ragingduckd wins


Code: [Select]
Haven, Scrying Pool, Market Square, Bishop, Noble Brigand, Plaza, Rats, Salvager, Scavenger, Council Room
I figured this would be all about using SP to bishop-trash rats, but it ended up with Hermit/MS-style megaturns.  Titandrake's megaturn landed just shy of 3-piling (he had 4 coin tokens, fyi), which caught me totally by surprise.  And I picked up the last 5 Provinces on mine, which surprised me even more.  Incidentally, I had no idea that you could activate a MS twice on the same Rat-trash... is this even right??

Code: [Select]
Andrew Iannaccone plays Salvager
Andrew Iannaccone trashes Rats
Andrew Iannaccone reveals reaction Market Square
Andrew Iannaccone discards Market Square
Andrew Iannaccone gains Gold
Andrew Iannaccone shuffles deck
Andrew Iannaccone draws Market Square
Andrew Iannaccone reveals reaction Market Square
Andrew Iannaccone discards Market Square
Andrew Iannaccone gains Gold


Game 4: ragingduckd wins



Code: [Select]
Hermit, Bishop, Treasure Map, Mandarin, Merchant Guild, Mint, Rabble, Torturer, Altar, Bank
So many Madmen, so much Platinum.  We basically mirrored with the plan of using Madmen to buy a Platinum and Mint away everything else.  I drew well with my Madmen and was able to Mint down to a deck of Platinum, Necro, Mint, Mint, Madman.  Titandrake didn't draw quite as well, so couldn't clean up quite as effectively, and was also limited by having trashing his Necro on T6.  The game ended on Colonies on T15 with 11 Platinum between us!
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Qvist

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 03:58:15 am »
+3

Congrats on your win.

Incidentally, I had no idea that you could activate a MS twice on the same Rat-trash... is this even right??

Yeah, this is right as your opponent can't tell if you drew the same Market Square, another different one or if you had a second Market Square in your hand already.
Cool powerful game btw.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 04:26:55 am »
+2

After the series was finished, I was pretty bummed out because of what I felt like was pretty sloppy play. Pretty much every game, I can tell exactly where I messed up, which is pretty rough because I think I rushed a come of decisions. In retrospect, I don't think it was nearly as bad play as I thought it was.

Video: http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake/b/522276228

Game 1: I think Forager isn't right, but I basically play it once to trash an Estate and then Butcher it. If it was a Hermit, I'd have 1 more Silver and that' it, so it probably wasn't too relevant. The big turn is on T12 when AI buys the last 2 Feodums, it's pretty huge because my Feodums are worth 4 VP by game's end and that's a lot of VP I miss out on.

Game 2: I wasn't intending to build a deck with Potion as my only $3 or higher cost. Once I did, I was planning to buy another Sage, but either bought Vineyard or Stonemason-overpay $2 instead. Got pretty lucky that it kept working out that way, and using Sage as a non-terminal Chancellor was pretty funny.

Game 3: AI's call to open a Silver instead of Market Square is much better. I tried to avoid getting any treasures, but getting the early $4s is pretty important. I get Salvager and Rats after him, and then I'm just playing catch-up. I got a bit on-tilt this game because of my last turn. I didn't think my hand out enough, and didn't realize just how many Golds I was gaining. I'm pretty certain that if I play my last turn correctly, I can 3-pile on a win, but you'll have to watch the video to decide if I'm correct. There's little chance you can figure it out without the graphical help.

Game 4: Honestly, I think trashing Necro hurt, but choosing to gain a Hermit with it was what hurt more. I never manage to trash the rest of my Coppers, and that's that.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 02:24:12 am by Titandrake »
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 01:55:54 pm »
+8

AdamH defeats SheCantSayNo
AdamH 4, SheCantSayNo 2

Hi Adam, congrats on your win. I just watched the stream and you played really well. While watching the first two games, knowing you'd win the match eventually, I strongly expected you to win both. Surprised that you didn't, but from that point on I was anticipating your victory scream at the end. It did not disappoint.


I don't have the chat from this game but some people told me later that I misplayed this one pretty badly. I'm not really sure what I could have done better -- I think going for Monuments has to be better than not going for them at all, maybe I should have found more time for more Lighthouses?
I wasn't in the chat but I think you played really well right up to the point of buying your first province. Skipping minstrell/monument sooner then that is suicide for sure. In fact I would have continued building by alternating between minstrell and monument. He has only 2 of both so I think you can build up to 6 each. After that grab Duchy over Province. Having less lighthouses actually feels like an advantage, they break your minstrell/minion chain.

So there's King's Court but no trashing and really no draw. With Horse Traders into Harem/Hoard as a Big Money enabler, it's just a stronger and more consistent option, so we both go for it. He gets Sages to open and I get Silvers (I still like Silvers better) but he ends up winning the game anyways.
agreed.

Anyways, SCSN does some really weird stuff by trashing his Militia at a weird moment, Embargoing Provinces once and going for lesser VP cards that I still don't quite understand. I have to convince myself that I'm playing better and just to stick with my strategy, which I do and I'm able to win comfortably.
Yeah that was a pretty weird moment. He needed the militia, and even more so he needed the $2 that turn for an Embargo on provinces.

The chat seemed to think that a second Sea Hag was good here, I think Island is just as good as a second Hag, myself. Also they didn't like me getting Ventures without getting Taxman, but by the time I was able to divert a buy to get a Taxman it was probably too late to make use out of it (maybe this is wrong?) and I think Venture was better than Highway for me by that point, particularly after the Highways were gone. My deck at that point was focused on playing Golds, which were my key cards, so they couldn't be skipped by Venture. Is this good reasoning?

If SCSN had played his second-to-last turn differently, namely buying one less Oracle, the endgame could have gone *very* differently, and a win for him would have sealed the match here.
Both players here could have really improved by taking a deep breath halfway and wandering about where this game is going.
He's going for the megaturn, while you're grabbing points where you can.
That implies you'll get an early lead and at some unknown turn number he will get more points then you.
Your main goal is to make the game end before that turn, his main goal is to make it last longer.
-> I would have taken highways over ventures in your position. Not because of the lack of Taxman (that's just a horrible card), but because he just needs every highway he can get and that's already 2 piles out.
-> I was really surprised to see him take the last highway. I think he already has enough at that point that 1 more doesn't really do enough to justify the thread of a 3pile.
-> I would have taken double island over province after that in your position. Again, deplete the piles.
-> Now that you didn't rush islands, he probably could have won indeed by leaving another oracle in the supply. But you shouldn't have left him this chance.
In a position like yours here, really your only goal is to end the game.


But anyways, there's a really interesting interaction that I didn't notice until after the game was over with Pearl Diver. If you use your Pearl Divers to make the bottom card of your deck a Bishop, you can potentially get 13 points per turn instead of just 12 if you buy a fifth Bishop. I wonder if the risk of this is enough to justify the increased payload -- might be some interesting math behind that.
Well played here. The decision you talk about depends on a lot of things (#pearl divers to compute the chance of success, score difference to know the number of hits you need without a miss in order to win the game)


Jack-in-an-Engine vs. Jack+lots of money enablers. This game was amazing (for me, at least) to play and to have it be the one that gets me the big upset is gravy. This game is totally going into the article ;D.

Beautiful way to end it. Congrats!

The only bad thing here is that you kicked out SCSN, something I wanted to do after he kicked me out of the last gokodom. Oh well, I forgive you.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2014, 02:13:43 pm »
+2

jog 3 secret tunnel 0

1. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140423/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1398273151067.txt
vineyard, chapel, oracle, bridge, farming village, ironmonger, militia, throne room, mine.

Bridge engine game.  I think trashing is important here and very little treasure is needed. Not sure if it's best to go for vineyards or provinces here.  Vineyards can be worth a lot but can be difficult to get potions into deck effectively.

2. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140423/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1398273846372.txt
fishing village, masterpiece, workshop, familiar, procession, council room, journeyman, margrave, vault, hunting grounds

First priority here should be cursing.  Procession is strong here.  It's possible to use one towards the end of cursing to get ahead on curse split.  It's possible to play procession council room and then a margrave so opponent goes back down to 3 cards.  Later on procession hunting grounds can help end the game on piles.

3. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140423/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1398275060132.txt
transmute, menagerie, feast, scout, smithy, spice merchant, horn of plenty, knights, market, farmland

Menageries are very good here.  The challenge is to not have any duplicates so you can consistently draw deck.  I had to wait as long as possible to buy multiple provinces because of the risk of not activating menageries.  Knights are good here too with necro and the + action knight it's possible to play 4 knights every turn. 



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SCSN

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2014, 05:19:51 pm »
+17

I end up playing poorly and not winning any games, so I decided to not let my self-confidence take a hit at any point. Play good Dominion and good things will happen to you.

Excellent attitude, though I kind of wish you'd have adopted it a day or two later ;)

Quote
I don't have the chat from this game but some people told me later that I misplayed this one pretty badly. I'm not really sure what I could have done better -- I think going for Monuments has to be better than not going for them at all, maybe I should have found more time for more Lighthouses?

I had no business winning this game after losing the Minion split. First I went for more Monuments and WMs, hoping that you'd go for Provinces. When you followed I was bound to lose that race, so I switched to Provinces, hoping that you'd follow, because if we both start adding green cards your advantage would significantly dilute. Had you just have kept buying WMs and Monuments you'd have won easily.

Also, there were a few times where you could have played Monument but instead chose to draw with Minion, despite either me having a Lighthouse in play or having already attacked before. Most of these times you ended up playing no Monument that turn, the chances of redrawing it were pretty much nonexistent and you'd have enough money already for your purchase had you just played Minion for cash and Monument. I think this happened 2-3 times, which could very well have made a difference in the endgame.

Quote
He gets Sages to open and I get Silvers (I still like Silvers better) but he ends up winning the game anyways.

I hate the Silvers. Sage's cycling speeds up your deck building a lot whereas Silver actively slows it down. With Silver maybe you get your first Hoard a bit earlier on average, but I expect with Sages you get to play it both earlier and more often, which is really important with a card like Hoard, and because of Harem you won't run into the problem of it drawing green cards for quite a while. Horse Traders ensures early economy is not an issue. Sage is just really strong whenever there's no trashing, as by skipping a bunch of Coppers and Estates it makes your deck effectively thinner.

Quote
Anyways, SCSN does some really weird stuff by trashing his Militia at a weird moment, Embargoing Provinces once and going for lesser VP cards that I still don't quite understand. I have to convince myself that I'm playing better and just to stick with my strategy, which I do and I'm able to win comfortably.

A stoned and blindfolded monkey would have played this game better than me. I have nothing else to say.

Quote
I don't think the engine is explosive enough, and I hit a couple of $6 turns so I load up on Golds while just making an appearance on the Highway split

Engine is a lot stronger here, and you were actually ahead on building it (so I expected to lose) when you suddenly went for a Gold!? At that point I thought "ok, well, gg then", in my mind the game was a complete lock, guaranteed win, you name it. I mentally zoned out and just kind of auto-piloted it to the end, and well, from such a stupidly complacent state of mind you're just bound to make blunders like getting the last Highway over a Worker's Village (even if it wouldn't have depleted the pile I should probably have prefered a WV at that point) and stupidly buying that Oracle.

Quote
The chat seemed to think that a second Sea Hag was good here... getting Taxman

Pretty sure they're just fucking with you, both would have been awful lol. Oracle should allow you to play your one Sea Hag more often, a 2nd is just cursing yourself.

Quote
as first player and getting some fortunate draws I'm able to get set up to the point where I'm in a position to comfortably pile out Pearl Divers and actually win the game with enough of a lead

Quote
SCSN makes a questionable (or is it? See below) play by buying a fifth Bishop, allowing for potential stall turns.

As you correctly noted, in a perfect mirror you could have piled out the game because you were ahead, so I HAD to take some risk in order to have any chance whatsoever. The Pearl Divers obviously made the play a lot better, but I had to do it regardless if I wanted to have even a fighting chance.

Quote
Jack-in-an-Engine vs. Jack+lots of money enablers. This game was amazing (for me, at least) to play and to have it be the one that gets me the big upset is gravy. This game is totally going into the article ;D.

"You're behind, you must win this game, so no time for your usual fancy nonsense, just play solid, no trickery, just something safe and solid, like a half-baked double-Jack..." and lose to the engine ::) This is what happens when you betray your own principles.

Quote
This game and the context of this match is probably the best moment I've ever had playing Dominion and I'm really proud of the way this happened.

You played a lot better in games 3 and 6, a bit worse in 1 and 2, and while you picked the inferior strategy in 4, you were a lot sharper than me in the endgame, so overall I can't say anything besides that the best player won. Congratulations, and now take the damn thing down! :D
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SCSN

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2014, 05:21:41 pm »
+4

The only bad thing here is that you kicked out SCSN, something I wanted to do after he kicked me out of the last gokodom. Oh well, I forgive you.

Mind your words, or I'll share with Adam my private notebook on how to beat you ;)
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 04:14:49 am »
+5

I like the fact that Adam apparently buys Wandering Winders instead of Wandering Minstrels :)
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WanderingWinder

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2014, 07:21:15 am »
+11

I like the fact that Adam apparently buys Wandering Winders instead of Wandering Minstrels :)

I feel so.... used ;)

Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 08:27:28 am »
+2

Wandering Minstrel is good for engines... WanderingWinder is good at engines... makes sense.
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2014, 08:39:28 am »
0

Well it could be a new trend, like the following :

There's Kirian on the board, but given the synergy between SheCantSayNos and WanderingWinders, possibly upping it with a few Qvists and Stefs, the engine looks more plausible. And you can always disrupt your opponent's deck with a soulnet  ::)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 08:41:19 am by TheMirrorMan »
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2014, 09:03:02 am »
0

Well it could be a new trend, like the following :

There's Kirian on the board, but given the synergy between SheCantSayNos and WanderingWinders, possibly upping it with a few Qvists and Stefs, the engine looks more plausible. And you can always disrupt your opponent's deck with a soulnet  ::)
Sad that the markusins are usually a trap.
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2014, 09:33:13 am »
+1

There's Kirian on the board, but given the synergy between SheCantSayNos and WanderingWinders, possibly upping it with a few Qvists and Stefs, the engine looks more plausible. And you can always disrupt your opponent's deck with a soulnet  ::)

I don't know whether to feel glad about being referenced in such strong company or sad that I am being perceived as disruptive. Lets go with glad, it is better for a weekend.
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2014, 09:51:56 am »
0

Well soulnet, you're ranked saboteur for a reason :p
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michaeljb

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2014, 12:09:37 pm »
+7

michaeljb defeats faust


Game 1



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Candlestick Maker, Fool's Gold, Scrying Pool, Masquerade, Wishing Well, Gardens, Young Witch, Ill-Gotten Gains, Pillage, Royal Seal
With no villages, I foolishly ignore Scrying Pool and go for Masquerade + Fool's Gold, with some half-hearted IGG action. faust goes full Scrying Pool, amassing Candlesticks Maker to save up for a 5 Province + 1 Duchy mega turn when I have only 3 Provinces.
michaeljb 21 - 28 faust


Game 2


Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Ambassador, Doctor, Fishing Village, Smugglers, Village, Woodcutter, Envoy, Spy, Cultist
I get the 5/2 to get a slight jump on the Cultists, but faust has two Ambassadors after turn 3. I stick with just one, and we mostly just by Fishing Villages and more Cultists. On turn 13 I bought a Doctor for 6, trashing one Ruins and a Copper, and on turn 14 I purchase the first Treasure of the game with a Gold. This is naturally crucial in getting me the only Province of the game, and a couple turns later I use Doctor for some nice draw (trashing Cultist, drawing past 2 Ruins that Doctor revealed), helping me end the game on piles. It was a weird sort of slog/engine where we both focused on engine components, but because of the Ruins (and ignoring Silver because of shiny Fishing Village) income was pretty low. faust did eventually get a Gold, but it was too late by then as it turned out to be his final turn.
faust 0 - 9 michaeljb


Game 3



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Stonemason, University, Masquerade, Throne Room, Band of Misfits, Cultist, Haggler, Market, Merchant Guild
Cultists and Masquerade make repeat appearances with this game. We both go for a University+Cultist engine with Masquerade for trashing. faust's first non-Cultist $5 gain is  Merchant Guild, which I find questionable given how low piles are by that point; I opt for Markets. Once again we don't buy much Treasure, so after turn 13 my 1 Gold and 1 Silver give me a decent advantage. After Cultists and Ruins run out, I was nervously watching the Market, Throne Room and Stonemason piles; faust had an Estate lead for most of the game, but my Markets delivered and I once again gained the only Province of the game, with the Throne Room pile down to only 2. faust responded with a few Estates to pick up some Coin tokens with Merchant Guild, but he would never see those tokens again as I piled out Throne Rooms the next turn. University and Stonemason sure made for a nerve-racking game.

faust 5 - 7 michaeljb


Game 4



Code: [Select]
Pearl Diver, Squire, Chancellor, Sage, Coppersmith, Cutpurse, Band of Misfits, City, Junk Dealer, Rabble
We both open 3/4 and go for Sage/Cutpurse, looking to a City/Rabble/Squire engine. Except, faust actually opened 4/3, but thought he had 3 on turn 1, so he actually opened Sage/Silver; my first turn after he played his Silver instead of his would-be Cutpurse, I hit $5 and got the first Junk Dealer, so it was a pretty significant misclick. After turn 6 I had two Sages, a Rabble, and had trashed one Copper to faust's single Sage and three Squires (we each had a Cutpurse). My early good fortune was pretty huge, and I rode that out to another 3-pile victory to take the match.
michaeljb 24 - 1 faust

michaeljb wins the match 3 to 1


So now I advance to the round of 8 and what am I even doing here. I'll either get to play the best player in the world or the player who I swept in the last Swiss round and will be out for revenge.


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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2014, 12:32:28 pm »
+4

Monsieur X defeats soulnet (4-3)

Video of the whole series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50R3vNiSVJM. (WARNING: The youtube comments contain spoilers of the results)

Will post logs and some analysis later after some rest lunch.

Here are the logs and kingdoms. There was a little bit of everything, mostly engine, but also some BMs with support and some more sloggish games.

Game 1


Code: [Select]
Native Village, Oracle, Smugglers, Cutpurse, Farming Village, Plaza, Cultist, Festival, Mandarin, GoonsAs you can hear on the video, I do not like being 2nd player in this Cultist board one bit. And even though I start luckier, it eventually evens out and his first player position lets him win the Ruins split by a big margin, from where I can never come back. We mostly mirror into engine-y and the sloggy decks, but with so much ruins and bad draw, it is impossible to build a real Goons engine. Mine is a lot worse due to the extra Ruins (that I also got one shuffle earlier), so while he gets some double Goons turns, I can only gamble into that happening while he stalls, which of course does not happen.
1-0


Game 2


Code: [Select]
Tunnel, Village, Wishing Well, Familiar, Baron, Bureaucrat, Remake, Cartographer, Venture, PeddlerHe goes for a Remake+BM hybrid (it seems). I go for a cantrip+WW engine to gain lots of Peddlers with +Buy from Baron. My plan is better, he turns to Baron and Familiar, but the lack of Treasure hurts, and by the time he can Curse me I could even trash Curses faster than they come, and I am already in double Province territory with all the Peddlers for money plus two easy to activate Barons, so the game is pretty much over.
1-1

Game 3


Code: [Select]
Vineyard, Hermit, Ironmonger, Island, Noble Brigand, Smithy, Treasure Map, Catacombs, Council Room, MinionVineyards has potential here, but there is no way to gain lots of actiosn really fast, so Provinces are important as well. We both go for Minions, but I focus a bit more on Ironmonger and he gets Hermit for the trashing, which I think is a mistake (although the extra gain almost gets him the game). I get Council Room, which is the only +Buy, and the penalty is compensated by Minion-attacking. CR proves to be key, although I get some bad draws and it ends up really close. It all finishes with a race to the Potion for the last 6 VP Vineyard, which I get. First player advantage again, maybe. I think my strategy was generally better, although maybe I did not focus enough and should have paid more attention to my number of Actions and how to play the bad hands.
1-2


Game 4


Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Pawn, Masterpiece, Ironmonger, Ironworks, Remake, Butcher, Harvest, Inn, HaremWithout draw, this is clearly Butcher+something. We both go Remake, but then I try to get fancy with lots of Ironmongers, Harem and a ridiculous Inn buy, while he cruises to victory with a simple Remake+Butcher+Ironmongers (with the help of a single IW). I considered myself behind and started gambling way too soon, and also, never got a second Butcher! That has to be wrong.
2-2

Game 5


Code: [Select]
Cellar, Haven, Nomad Camp, Remake, Count, Ghost Ship, Mint, Rebuild, Altar, FairgroundsWeak board, definitely rebuild. We both open Nomad Camp and he gets to $5 on T2 but I do not. Being 2P and getting that $4, I am reluctant to mirror so I go Remake to see if I can speed up. I luck into a 5 Coppers T3 and I decide to go fancy with Mint, to later Remake it into an Altar. I think that was fine up to here, but the slim deck is not so great if you don't get more Cellars, and I have no money. I think gaining a Count instead of a Rebuild with my first Altar play and Remaking one Estate could have been a way better plan, because it would give me Count for money once the Duchies are out. In the end, his ability to buy Estates wins him the game.
3-2


Game 6


Code: [Select]
Native Village, Pearl Diver, Shanty Town, Trade Route, Count, Rabble, Treasury, Vault, Grand Market, PeddlerDefinitely Vault into Grand Market and then Peddlers. We mirror. I srew my first Vault play forgetting to discard my Coppers (who cares, right? It is $1 anyway) so I get a Peddler instead of GM. However, I get way better draws later and with my first player advantage, I get ahead in GM and Peddler split, which is mostly game over. I think his Trade Route buy was wrong (too slow), but maybe was a reasonable gamble at that point.
3-3

Game 7


Code: [Select]
Loan, Swindler, Philosopher's Stone, Bridge, Caravan, Marauder, Spy, Thief, Explorer, MinionNo village, no good draw and Swindler. This is definitely slog. We both go for PS, but he goes from the start while I open double Swindler to avoid getting stuck at 2P. However, he gets to 3P every time and I get to 2P twice, even after getting Swindlers and Silvers from Explorer. Maybe my Caravans were a mistake as well, as the extra card is rarely worth it in a slog and it can screw up the SPs. I definitely screw the endgame by overbuilding, but he also gets pretty nice draws getting to $8 with surprising consistency, which made it impossible to come back. Nicely done Mr X.
4-3
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 01:35:40 pm by soulnet »
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2014, 02:09:42 pm »
0

For the record, the playoffs are a lot less formal in terms of time frame than the Swiss rounds; Monsieur X and JOG, feel free to play your quarterfinal match when convenient.

Meanwhile, soulnet, great job forcing the top seed to a tiebreaker game. :)
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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2014, 03:13:05 pm »
+1


Game 5


Code: [Select]
Cellar, Haven, Nomad Camp, Remake, Count, Ghost Ship, Mint, Rebuild, Altar, FairgroundsWeak board, definitely rebuild. We both open Nomad Camp and he gets to $5 on T2 but I do not. Being 2P and getting that $4, I am reluctant to mirror so I go Remake to see if I can speed up. I luck into a 5 Coppers T3 and I decide to go fancy with Mint, to later Remake it into an Altar. I think that was fine up to here, but the slim deck is not so great if you don't get more Cellars, and I have no money. I think gaining a Count instead of a Rebuild with my first Altar play and Remaking one Estate could have been a way better plan, because it would give me Count for money once the Duchies are out. In the end, his ability to buy Estates wins him the game.


I have to say i really like how you played this. I think trashing any estates into silvers would have been extremely bad for you, i mean you can only use that economy to buy more estates anyway. Not getting to 5 on turn 2 put you quite a bit behind, so i agree the mirror isn't the best choice. You had a very trim deck that should be able to play more rebuilds per turn on average than his deck, so i think that's the thing you should rely on to win the game.
You don't have any economy , but that doesn't really matter all that much if you manage to deny him his 4th province.
Just play turbo rebuild and rebuild province into province once. Then he needs 3 extra estates to catch up, and that is not the easiest thing to do before the game ends. With this consideration i think you misplayed turn 10 and 11.
Turn 10 you should have rebuilt Province into Province instead of skipping the turn entirely. Turn 11 cellar less and Altar the copper into a 3rd rebuild. It would have probably not been enough, but i think that would have been your best shot at winning that game.
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2014, 03:43:28 pm »
0

I have to say i really like how you played this. I think trashing any estates into silvers would have been extremely bad for you, i mean you can only use that economy to buy more estates anyway. Not getting to 5 on turn 2 put you quite a bit behind, so i agree the mirror isn't the best choice. You had a very trim deck that should be able to play more rebuilds per turn on average than his deck, so i think that's the thing you should rely on to win the game.
You don't have any economy , but that doesn't really matter all that much if you manage to deny him his 4th province.
Just play turbo rebuild and rebuild province into province once. Then he needs 3 extra estates to catch up, and that is not the easiest thing to do before the game ends. With this consideration i think you misplayed turn 10 and 11.
Turn 10 you should have rebuilt Province into Province instead of skipping the turn entirely. Turn 11 cellar less and Altar the copper into a 3rd rebuild. It would have probably not been enough, but i think that would have been your best shot at winning that game.

I would have needed 3 out of 4 Provinces to win if I trash Prov for Prov. Maybe I had better odds of that happening than to win with 3 out of 5 because of the Estate thing. I guess you are right, I did not really thought enough about how to win with 3 out of 5 Provs, and of course 4 out of 5 is way more difficult than 3 out of 4.
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DG

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2014, 04:55:58 pm »
+11

DG vs Stef

DG 3 : Stef 1

I'll comment after the stream has been linked up. I was lazy and didn't get logs.
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2014, 07:29:06 pm »
+1

Two big upsets.  Two grueling 4-3 matches.  Round of 16 is over, on to the quarterfinals!
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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2014, 10:03:06 pm »
+4

jsh vs. MarkowKette
jsh wins 4-3

Logs here, I'll post the videos later.  Was a grueling match.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140427/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398632788251.txt


http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140427/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398633512029.txt


http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140427/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398634618319.txt


http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140427/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398636329035.txt


http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140427/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398637581781.txt


http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140427/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398638740805.txt


http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140427/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398639765186.txt

really interesting games:

game 1: This one played out a bit awkward and was still kind of a mirror. I lost the Fishing village split with a pretty bad first shuffle. 2 piles are out very early i try to turbo remodel (remodel->Gold->Province  and Province->Province) but his deck is better and he can get 2 colonies pretty fast. On my last turn i try to get incredibly lucky but as expected that doesnt happen and he wins.

game 2: My shuffles are decent and i feel pretty good here , but then he pulls of an amazing turn 5  getting 5 Peddlers already and i can't catch up. Also the 5/2 opening helped. Easy win, the game took only 9 turns!

game 3: Colony board. I go for a Butcher Ironmonger Big Money, with a Forge on first 7, while he tries to build an engine with Vault as the only draw. Most of the game hist Vault was basically a  slightly worse moat though as he has not many cards he want to discart with it and some times the play did benefit me. I get a second Butcher later and have far more Treasures than him. On my second to last turn i play a bit too risky i'm far ahead but on a very lucky draw he might get Butcher Platinum and enough coins for another colony so he could have potentially won there. But that is really unlikely and doesnt happen so i win on the next turn. Maybe i focussed too much on ironmonger, but i'm pretty sure the Vault plan just isnt good enough here on average.

game 4: Another engine board  the question here is  Hunting Party Stack or Menagerie engine.
Again i have really bad draws at start and he was quite a bit ahead on the menagerie engine plan, so i decide i can't mirror and go straight for the Hunting Party stack with Counterfeit and Bank. As soon as i commit to this stragey i get very good draws and i catch up and then get ahead. I make a horrible missclick on turn 12 where i accidently trash my bank to the counterfeit (cant even use the extra money due to a lack of + buy) so i have to rebuy it the next turn. But i continue to get good draws while he stalls and i can get a points lead that he can't catch up on. Maybe the HP stack plan was better but i really feel he needed more than only 3 menageries in his deck and i think he shouldn't have kept buying bakers when i started greening (on turn 12 he even used 4 coin tokens to get another baker that he didn't even play 3 times in the game). 

game 5: Bridge engine with Lab , City and Throneroom. It's basically a mirror and i get a bit behind when he hits double 5 on after the first shuffle. We buy the same cards exept he got a plaza which i think is a big mistake as throne rooms are a lot more important and coin tokens don't play much of a role, you usually rather keep the copper to cellar through your deck.
His 3rd Bridge was also a bit early in my eyes, as a throne room can do the same there and adds more flexibility. Anyway bridge engines just have a huge snowball factor so his early lead grows to a big lead and i have to be very carefull with 3 pilings. Then he gets incredibly unlucky and has a dud hand, which puts me back into the game. And his next turn he also couldnt draw through his whole deck  and i can end it on a win on my next turn. That must have felt extremely frustrating for him. I'm sry.

Game 6: Big Money with Young Witch Doctor(Bane) Apprentice and Ghost ship. I open Silver/YW to his YW/ Dr and he can block 2 of my first 3 YW plays. But his terminals also collide a lot at start and he can't really trash that effectively. I get to 5 more often earlier and so i feel pretty good but i also eat a lot of curses. I think in the end we split the Curses 6/4 or maybe i even got 7? not sure. He gets a lead on Provinces  having 3 already when i have none but i still decide to spent my $12 hand on an overpay doctor as i knew i would at least hit 2 curses with it. In fact i hit 3 so that was pretty good even though i didnt hit any other of my bad cards. Now my deck is a lot better than his and i start catching up. It gets really close in the end and i have 8 on a hand where Province wins for me. But then he Ghost ships me and i'm frustrated and unconcentrated and that loses me the game. If i put back Silver and Gold like i clearly would have dont if i payed any attention at all then the next turn Province would have won me the game by 1 point and the series 4-2. But i don't think at all there and just click on cards randomly to put back (i really have no idea how that could happen). Well i don't deserve to win the game if i misplay like this.

game 7: He has the higher seed so he goes first. He playes Vault BM with one Scavenger that he opened with and i play Ghost Ship BM also with 1 Scavenger. My 2 opening buys both miss the shuffle and i'm already back in frustration mode(didn't matter this game). I really shouldn't let that get into my mind that easy though. He gets light houses as defence pretty late and with my 3 Ghost ships i can attack him between 1/2 and 1/3 of the turns which really hurts him. I think both strategies are very even here but my start puts me quite a bit behind. He gets a few Farmlands later and i can only win if i get the 5th Province. Now that i think about it my late 3rd Ghost ship should have been a Vault.  As expected my deck stalls more than his deck and he wins. Maybe Vault is just better here after all especially if it gets light houses over silver early.

Well played Jsh.  Luck wasn't really on my side all in all but you certainly deserve this win.
And if i don't misplay i would have won so bad luck wasn't what lost me the series.

I really enjoyed the tense games and wish you the best of luck on the way to the gradfinals (hopefully)

« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 12:55:28 pm by MarkowKette »
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Burning Skull

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2014, 02:16:26 am »
+1

I make a horrible missclick on turn 12 where i accidently trash my bank to the counterfeit

That trashed bank of yours was something!
The most fun thing about it was that Jsh hadn't noticed you had trashed it. And when you wrote to him something like "oh no! That game is lost for me" or so, he was commenting it like "hmm, why, why is he talking like that? Is it the dud hand or what?" :D

Anyway, you played that game a lot better, and it was no chance for him with all that bakers.

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2014, 05:49:57 am »
+1

I make a horrible missclick on turn 12 where i accidently trash my bank to the counterfeit

That trashed bank of yours was something!
The most fun thing about it was that Jsh hadn't noticed you had trashed it. And when you wrote to him something like "oh no! That game is lost for me" or so, he was commenting it like "hmm, why, why is he talking like that? Is it the dud hand or what?" :D


The chat for that game was hilarious, because Jsh spent the rest of the game wondering why Markow never drew 2 banks together, and most things Jsh said were wrong, as based on Markow having 2 banks. Fun game, not sure many people thought baker would be good enough, though.
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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2014, 10:11:35 am »
+1

I make a horrible missclick on turn 12 where i accidently trash my bank to the counterfeit

That trashed bank of yours was something!
The most fun thing about it was that Jsh hadn't noticed you had trashed it. And when you wrote to him something like "oh no! That game is lost for me" or so, he was commenting it like "hmm, why, why is he talking like that? Is it the dud hand or what?" :D

Anyway, you played that game a lot better, and it was no chance for him with all that bakers.

Yeah that is really a bad habit of mine, overreacting to such mistakes even if i'm still not in a horrible position there.
It's just such a devastating misclick, compareble to trashing a Province with chapel by accident so that i wasn't able to stay calm and patient there like i should.
Frustration just makes you do more mistakes and if you do mistakes you will never be able to come back from a bad start against a good player like Jsh.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2014, 12:35:54 am »
+2

Game 1:
Log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140429/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398818590328.txt
Video

Game 2:
Log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140429/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398820118850.txt
Video

Game 3:
Log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140429/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398821190039.txt
Video

Game 4:
Log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140429/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1398823358547.txt
Video

Overall comments: This was one of the strangest sets of games I can recall playing in ages.  First is a possession game where Tribute is the most important card, third was an actual honest-to-Ozle Venture board, and the last was a Golem/Minion/Monument/Mercenary weirdness kingdom.  I had no idea what I was doing half the time, and am surprised I won even a single game of these.
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ragingduckd

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2014, 06:18:28 am »
+4

AI vs jsh357, this time with game reports.

The first three games are an object lesson in preserving your lead.  Game 1 (my lead) and Game 3 (jsh's lead) both ought to have been blowouts, but neither of us nailed down the win effectively and both games were very nearly coin flips by the end.

In Game 2, I preserved my early lead effectively, as it was the sort of board where it would have been hard to go wrong.  There was really only one decision that was particularly interesting, which I discuss below.

Game 4 was mostly just ugly.  We both wasted time stumbling about on a board where time was of the essence.

Game 1: AI wins


Code: [Select]
Transmute, Market Square, Swindler, Remake, Smithy, Count, Ghost Ship, Treasury, Tribute, Possession
Man, I really, really deserved to lose this game.  First I planned to play Count-MS (you know, like Chapel-MS?).  Then I realized the obvious problem with that and I got a Remake so that I could actually activate a MS instead of trashing it.  I never did that either because jsh bought a Tribute that turn and suddenly I realized that you could build a multi-Possession engine using Tribute as a village.

This wasn't fundamentally a bad plan for me to mirror, but it was a poor use of my early lead.  I had caught an absolutely perfect T7: Necro, Smithy, Count putting MS on top and trashing 4 cards including Overgrown Estate, and thus activating the MS for a Gold.  With this lead, I really don't want to load up on high-variance cards like Tribute and Possession if I can possibly avoid it.

Quote
8:36 Mic_qsenoch:  should have pivoted from engines once he got huge trash lead, adding more actions just made his tributes good villages

I agree entirely... now.  Had I just gone BM after T7 (with maybe one Remake and/or some Ghost Ships), jsh would never have been able to get a Possession engine going fast enough to catch me.  Further, my deck wouldn't have had enough actions for Tribute to be a reliable village for him.  By mirroring the engine, I turned an easy, high-probability win into a risky, confusing game that gave jsh lots of chances to get lucky and gave me lots of opportunities to make mistakes.


Game 2: AI wins


Code: [Select]
Forager, Shanty Town, Trade Route, Ironmonger, Thief, Cache, Embassy, Highway, Outpost, Hunting Grounds
The basic strategy here is fairly straightforward.  Trash down with Forager while adding Ironmongers and eventually Highways, draw, and Outpost.  The only question is the what order to do these things in.  I drew early $4 hands and loaded on IMs, not an extraordinary start, but very reliable.  Meanwhile, jsh drew an early $6 and gambled on an Hunting Party.  When it failed to connect with either his Forager or villages for the next two shuffles, I took a huge lead.

Quote
8:57 Mic_qsenoch:  wait, when did AI get embassy
8:57 Florrat:  last turn
8:57 Mic_qsenoch:  why
8:57 Shecantsayno:  I don't understand it either

In a closer game or on a less powerful board, I'd get the third Highway instead.  But I had a big lead and the board is super-powerful.  I have a sure-fire win as long as I don't run into some unlikely catastrophe like 2 successive dead or nearly-dead hands.  Minimizing the chance of that unlikely catastrophe is more important than making my deck a little more powerful on average.

A second Hunting Grounds would be almost as good for this purpose, but I actually want Embassy's discarding.  It gives me a chance to control what my Ironmongers hit and it gives me the option of preparing my 3-card Outpost hands.  If that Embassy ends up saving just one Outpost turn that would otherwise be dead, it will have done me far more good than an extra Highway.


Game 3: jsh357 wins


Code: [Select]
Chapel, Herbalist, Fortune Teller, Scheme, Marauder, Remake, Young Witch, Counting House, Market, Rabble, Venture
Missing your T3/T4 Chapel is very nearly fatal on a board like this.  Not only do you go into the second shuffle with 4 extra Coppers/Estates, but you're going to end up losing the Ruins split too.

I got back in the game because jsh favored Market over Venture.  For him, either card was reasonable, since he was slim enough for Market to be strong.  But for me, playing from behind with a bloated deck, Venture was absolutely essential, both because the extra card from Market wouldn't do me much good and because I needed to gamble to catch up.  Venture, like Rebuild, provides extra variance because of the reshuffling it induces.

That means that jsh should skip Market and nail down the win by denying me Ventures.  To be sure, I had to get lucky in the latter half of the game to to come as close as I did, but if jsh had skipped his 3 Markets and limited me to 3-4 Ventures instead of 6, I would never even have had an opportunity to get lucky.


Game 4: AI wins


Code: [Select]
Urchin, Warehouse, Caravan, Envoy, Monument, Navigator, Salvager, Golem, Minion, Rabble
Reprising our Game 1 routine, jsh and I both spent a lot of time doing inexplicable things.  I opened with a Salvager, then trashed it right when I needed it most and ended up having to buy it back again; jsh got a faster start on slimming with Merc but then re-junked his deck by buying Silvers; and we both wasted time on half-hearted Golem-Monument strategies.

Quote
10:00 Mic_qsenoch:  i am less convinced by the golems the more i watch this game
10:01 Shecantsayno:  just minions and platina?
10:01 Hvboedefeld:  yeah just thin out add a platinum and play you minions would be faster

Looking back, I agree wholeheartedly.  With Merc to slim, Minions for cash, and Salvager to trash Colony into Colony, there's just no time for Golem, and certainly not for Monument.  It took me a while to figure this out, but by the time the Minions are gone, it was clear that my 2 Golems weren't doing much of anything for me.  I would have been far better off with no Golems and a 7-3 Minion split.

Quote
9:42 Kipkoan:  only +buy is salvager... AI trashed his salvager...

AI realized this right after he did it.  For extra bonus stupidity, a bit later AI also (re-)learned that you can't trash just one card with Mercenary.


One last quote, out of order because it's more appropriate here:
Quote
9:04 Markowkette:  jsh 's only chance is to attack piles and maybe sneak in a lucky win
9:04 Markowkette:  but not gonna happen against a good player like AI
9:05 Mic_qsenoch:  you would be surprised the kinds of stuff good players mess up
9:05 Mic_qsenoch:  basically all the things "not good" players mess up

Everybody should listen to Mic Q all the time.  Mic Q, you should write more.


Many thanks to jsh for a strange and enjoyable match!  :)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 07:12:23 am by ragingduckd »
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2014, 09:10:01 am »
+3

Seeing as the next round round is moving on, I'll give some comments for my match with Stef.

Game #1 - http://archive-dominionlogs.goko.com/20140427/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1398625577196.txt
I put together a mediocre wharf deck. Stef does something a bit bigger and better. Read the log.

Game #2 - http://archive-dominionlogs.goko.com/20140427/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1398628037785.txt
This is a tight vineyards end game. I'd planned to start with spice merchant so when Stef opened with a potion I stopped, rethought, and it actually helped clarify what I was doing. To my mind the apothecaries would draw through the copper but would still need support to draw the other cards and carried more risk, particularly in the end game. As it turned out, Stef could win on his last turn if he could draw all three potions but his deck stalled.

Game #3 - http://archive-dominionlogs.goko.com/20140427/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1398629357832.txt
This didn't seem complex at all from my viewpoint as the complexity was in the endgame and we cut that short. We both tried to make a village-smithy-goons deck with counterfeit for trashing but both deck stutter, his more than mine. At one point I draw a hand with 3 smithy's, goons, and procession and Stef leaves the third pile on 3 cards which would be normally be within reach of my deck. I don't know whether he saw Goko show both my discards or not (it should only show the 'top' one). I didn't know at the time that my deck was a lot more compact than his, he couldn't use the next turn to finish it, so I coasted home the following turn.

Game #4 - http://archive-dominionlogs.goko.com/20140427/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1398631171957.txt
There are probably a lot of 'might have been' involved with this game. The cultists dominate but there's this potential strong engine lurking with black market cards (watchtower, hermit) and ironmonger, maybe bridge, but the ironmongers look overworked in getting coin, draws, and actions all when you need them. Looking at it again, there's more in the black market than I remember. Isn't that always the way? Anyway I decide to pursue simple cultists/treasure with an option to expand/develop the cultists later to sustain the end game. Stef wins the ruins split 7/3 and as well taking his engine cards like develop and black market but all the problems I saw at the start seemed to hit him with unproductive turns. I push the piles low enough for my small lead to pose a threat but with one ironmonger left Stef shuffles his deck, gets unleashes the madman, forges up a province and ... he miscalculates points somehow. He closed out for a losing score when drawing more cards would give the chance to score and win. The develop that I knew was the last card in my draw deck, that might have been able to empty piles for me the turn before, finally showed and gave me the win.

It's not a great way to win a series to be honest. It's also a shame that Stef's dominion magic won't be seen in the later rounds but that's what you get in a knockout tournament.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 09:11:55 am by DG »
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2014, 02:38:56 pm »
+3

jog defeats monsieur x 4-3

It was a great match and it could have gone either way.  I'm planning on writing about each game later today.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2014, 04:32:46 pm »
+4

1. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?
Hunting Party, Militia, Peddler, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Province, Remodel, Scheme, Treasury, Vault, Wharf, Sage

I have 5-2, which seems great.  Open wharf with the plan to eventually get a second, so you can play one every turn.  Pick up a lot of peddlers and hunting parties along the way, and then eventually be able to draw deck, and buy a province and hunting party every turn. The problem was that his remodel peddler strategy is so fast.  He is able to build a big lead, and then start to remodel provinces into provinces to end it quickly. 5 provinces and game over in 13 turns.  I was outplayed here.

2. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399048083035.txt
Baron, Farming Village, Fortress, Gold, Island, Oracle, Pirate Ship, Province, Quarry, Witch, Worker's Village, Cellar

He has 5-2 and opens cellar, witch. The 5-2 was strong, his shuffles after that were great, and he played it just about perfectly.  I lose the curse split 7-3, he's able to add to his points lead with islands, and then end it on piles.

3. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399050227736.txt
 Council Room, Farming Village, Herbalist, Journeyman, Junk Dealer, Province, Scavenger, Silk Road, Tactician, Torturer, Hamlet

We both get 2 junk dealers, trash down, and then start to build torturer engines.  He picks up a tactician with the plan to play big torturer chains early.  I try to get the chains going without tactician.  I get a slight edge in trashing, which means my chains can be played more consistently.  Close game even though the final score doesn't show it.

4. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399051505210.txt
Bazaar,  Fishing Village, Forager,  Horn of Plenty, Laboratory, Margrave, Potion, Province, Vagrant, Vault, Worker's Village, Vineyard

We both plan horn of plenty mega turns.  I open fishing village silver, he opens fishing village forager. My opening means I can get a margrave after first shuffle, while he can't get 1  until turn 7 (partly due to bad draws).  After that I focused more on consistent draw than getting lots of horns.  I build a small lead and then am able to end it on piles with the help of the horns I did pick up.

5. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399052484614.txt
Apothecary, Baron, Bishop, Forager, Fortune Teller,  Goons, Potion, Province, Silk Road, Taxman, Witch, Herbalist

Pretty interesting game.  He goes money, witches into provinces and eventually silk roads.  I go apothecaries, foragers into goons and then some green.  No villages, so it's only possible to play 1 goons, but foragers can give extra buy.  He builds a big lead, but I am able to eventually start building up points with goons, curse trashing and some green.

6.  http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399053726750.txt
 Bazaar, City, Doctor,  Fortune Teller, Merchant Guild, Native Village, Pillage, Province, Rabble, Remake,  Courtyard

Remake silver opening vs remake doctor opening.  His remake silver opening is probably the best choice.  It's less risky.  My doctor misses the shuffle and I am not able to trash as effectively as I had planned.  His deck is better in every way.  More merchant guilds, more villages and more money too.  He wins this one easily.

7. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399055345503.txt
Cache, Catacombs, Feodum, Lookout, Mint, Nomad Camp, Oasis, Potion, Province,  Treasure Map, University, Pawn

We both have the same plan here.  Build a university catacombs engine, trash with lookout and mint and then eventually add treasure maps and pawns/nomad camps for plus buy.  The problem with this strategy is that it's hard to get enough actions to play treasure maps, and then draw the golds.  We both get 2 treasure maps in our deck relatively early but never play them because of lack of actions and because the gold would clog up our decks.  I mess up my mint turn when I trashed my potion along with the other treasure.  I realize I need more universities after doing this so rebuy a potion the next turn.  My mint buy was, however, a little later.  So, my trashing was better.  My draws ended up being more consistent, so I was able to end it on piles. 
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2014, 06:28:07 pm »
+4

1. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?
Hunting Party, Militia, Peddler, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Province, Remodel, Scheme, Treasury, Vault, Wharf, Sage

I have 5-2, which seems great.  Open wharf with the plan to eventually get a second, so you can play one every turn.  Pick up a lot of peddlers and hunting parties along the way, and then eventually be able to draw deck, and buy a province and hunting party every turn. The problem was that his remodel peddler strategy is so fast.  He is able to build a big lead, and then start to remodel provinces into provinces to end it quickly. 5 provinces and game over in 13 turns.  I was outplayed here.

2. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399048083035.txt
Baron, Farming Village, Fortress, Gold, Island, Oracle, Pirate Ship, Province, Quarry, Witch, Worker's Village, Cellar

He has 5-2 and opens cellar, witch. The 5-2 was strong, his shuffles after that were great, and he played it just about perfectly.  I lose the curse split 7-3, he's able to add to his points lead with islands, and then end it on piles.

3. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399050227736.txt
 Council Room, Farming Village, Herbalist, Journeyman, Junk Dealer, Province, Scavenger, Silk Road, Tactician, Torturer, Hamlet

We both get 2 junk dealers, trash down, and then start to build torturer engines.  He picks up a tactician with the plan to play big torturer chains early.  I try to get the chains going without tactician.  I get a slight edge in trashing, which means my chains can be played more consistently.  Close game even though the final score doesn't show it.

4. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399051505210.txt
Bazaar,  Fishing Village, Forager,  Horn of Plenty, Laboratory, Margrave, Potion, Province, Vagrant, Vault, Worker's Village, Vineyard

We both plan horn of plenty mega turns.  I open fishing village silver, he opens fishing village forager. My opening means I can get a margrave after first shuffle, while he can't get 1  until turn 7 (partly due to bad draws).  After that I focused more on consistent draw than getting lots of horns.  I build a small lead and then am able to end it on piles with the help of the horns I did pick up.

5. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399052484614.txt
Apothecary, Baron, Bishop, Forager, Fortune Teller,  Goons, Potion, Province, Silk Road, Taxman, Witch, Herbalist

Pretty interesting game.  He goes money, witches into provinces and eventually silk roads.  I go apothecaries, foragers into goons and then some green.  No villages, so it's only possible to play 1 goons, but foragers can give extra buy.  He builds a big lead, but I am able to eventually start building up points with goons, curse trashing and some green.

6.  http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399053726750.txt
 Bazaar, City, Doctor,  Fortune Teller, Merchant Guild, Native Village, Pillage, Province, Rabble, Remake,  Courtyard

Remake silver opening vs remake doctor opening.  His remake silver opening is probably the best choice.  It's less risky.  My doctor misses the shuffle and I am not able to trash as effectively as I had planned.  His deck is better in every way.  More merchant guilds, more villages and more money too.  He wins this one easily.

7. http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140502/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1399055345503.txt
Cache, Catacombs, Feodum, Lookout, Mint, Nomad Camp, Oasis, Potion, Province,  Treasure Map, University, Pawn

We both have the same plan here.  Build a university catacombs engine, trash with lookout and mint and then eventually add treasure maps and pawns/nomad camps for plus buy.  The problem with this strategy is that it's hard to get enough actions to play treasure maps, and then draw the golds.  We both get 2 treasure maps in our deck relatively early but never play them because of lack of actions and because the gold would clog up our decks.  I mess up my mint turn when I trashed my potion along with the other treasure.  I realize I need more universities after doing this so rebuy a potion the next turn.  My mint buy was, however, a little later.  So, my trashing was better.  My draws ended up being more consistent, so I was able to end it on piles.

Thank you for your analysis Jog. I agree with what you said.
Interesting games except the witch/cellar opening...
I think it was close but you played better than me.  Not proud of my forager/fishing village opening, what a mistake! For a horn of plenty lover, i'm crushed of what i did in this game!

Good luck for "final four"!

Thank you for this tournament Kirian. i enjoyed playing it!
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2014, 08:18:56 pm »
+5

michaeljb vs DG

Game 1



Code: [Select]
Vineyard, Chapel, Courtyard, Duchess, Pawn, Develop, Masquerade, Library, Market, Merchant Ship
Looks like there's enough +Buy and cheap actions for Vineyard to be good, but I was torn between Chapel and Masquerade. I didn't want to be caught giving away good cards to Masquerade after Chapelling down, so I opened Silver/Masquerade and DG opened Silver/Chapel. I got my Vineyards up to 6 points apiece, but DG's Chapelled deck was able to buy 6 of the Vineyards as well a Province and Duchy.

michaeljb 16 - 33 DG


Game 2



Code: [Select]
Moat, Scrying Pool, Fishing Village, Oasis, Monument, Talisman, Bazaar, Festival, Library, Adventurer
A big Scrying Pool board. DG's early reshuffles were a bit better than mine, getting him the first Festival, allowing him to pick up a Moat with his second SP on turn 6. I didn't buy any Moats until near the end, but the extra bit of draw and the protection from SP's spying definitely were valuable. DG also bought a Talisman for more end game control, but that didn't seem to have too much of an impact on the game either way. If I had been closer it probably would have had a larger influence. Ultimately DG got the action cards needed for SP earlier than I did, and it snowballed from there.

DG 54 - 33 michaeljb


Game 3



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Courtyard, Great Hall, Swindler, Philosopher's Stone, JackOfAllTrades, Counting House, Highway, Pillage, Vault
Facing elimination from the p2 seat and the kind of BM board where I'm really unsure of what to do, I settled on opening Swindler/Jack, hoping to get lucky with my Swindler and turn a Jack into Potion or something like that. That was somewhat contingent on DG opening 4/3; instead, he opened 5/2 and went full Beggar/Counting House, buying his first Province on turn 4. Now I was really worried and really hoping for some early Swindler luck, but in the early game I only hit one Estate and some Silvers that Beggar had put there. I supplemented the Swindlers with some Pillage buys, and even though I hadn't planned on this effect, he only managed to play Beggar once (they were busy reacting), on turn 3, so he didn't have piles of Copper for his Counting House.

While my attacks did slow his Counting House power, Silvers from the Beggars added up. I had a Vault, one Gold, and some Spoils from Pillage, and things were looking grim. On my last shuffle I got the draws I needed and just managed to get the last Province, just as DG would have nabbed it with another turn.

DG 37 - 43 michaeljb


Game 4



Code: [Select]
Black Market, Great Hall, Smugglers, Bishop, Herald, Harvest, Jester, Mint, Stash, Farmland

Black market deck cards: Forge, Hermit, City, Nomad Camp, Wharf, Venture, Haven,
Tournament, Apprentice, Shanty Town, Fairgrounds, Wandering Minstrel, Embargo,
Scrying Pool, Swindler, Throne Room, Spy, Courtyard, Vagrant, Beggar, Laboratory,
Horn of Plenty, Taxman, Harem, Margrave

I was first player again, so it was time to make this come back happen. I started 5/2; Jester/- isn't the greatest opening, but it could have been worse. I dealt out a Curse and bought a Bishop on turn 3, DG responded by starting on the Heralds. I was a little nervous about Tournament out of the Black Market, especially when DG pulled it on turn 4.
 Fortunately for me, I drew 5 Copper again on turn 5, and I could easily afford Mint then.

My Jester effectively balanced the positive effect my Bishop had on DG's deck, and even gained me a couple of Heralds and a Gold. I got to a point where my deck was relatively thin and I was happily Minting Golds. DG couldn't get his deck down to size, and his single Tournament from the Black Market never found its Prize; turn 12 in particular was a bummer for him, as his Heralds first revealed a Province his Tournament couldn't match, and then a Gold his Mint couldn't match.

As I began to pull away, DG pulled the plug.

michaeljb 36 - 14 (resigned) DG


Game 5



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Loan, Familiar, Silk Road, Talisman, Throne Room, Count, Embassy, Junk Dealer, Nobles
I opened Silver/Embargo, which was definitely a mistake. I had a vague idea of wanting to Embargo Familiars, but between Junk Dealer and Count, Familiar doesn't seem that great anyway, and I would have been much better off with a Silver than Embargo (I ended up Embargoing the Embargoes). DG got the Nobles split, 5-3 and got his engine up and running sooner. Apart from my opening failure, we did more or less the same, with Nobles, Count, Junk Dealer and Throne Rooms. I Cursed myself much more than DG did (that is, I ended the game with 7 Silvers to his 3; one of those was a gift from his Embassy), and couldn't keep my draw going very well. This game drew out a bit longer than the others, but as you can see from the points graph it was DG's all the way.

michaeljb 40 - 58 DG


Game 6



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Embargo, Steward, Bridge, Thief, Treasure Map, Golem, Cultist, Junk Dealer, Saboteur
Once again facing elimination from p2, and I couldn't ask for a better time or board to get the 5/2 against 4/3. Or for worse draws for my opponent; DG's turn 3 hand was both of his opening Stewards with 3 Coppers, turn 4 was 2 Coppers, 3 Estates. DG Embargoed Golds, Provinces, and Duchies, but there was no stopping the Cultist train. The only chances DG had to reach $5 would have required that he choose coins over trashing with his Stewards.

To get around the Gold Embargo, I bought a Bridge and eventually a pair of Treasure Maps. Shortly after I went green, DG resigned. After that first reshuffle, the game was mine to lose, but I managed to not misclick my way to disaster.

DG (resigned) 2 - 18 michaeljb


Game 7



Code: [Select]
Squire, Loan, Trade Route, Advisor, Farming Village, JackOfAllTrades, Taxman, Mine, Wharf, King's Court
Our tiebreaker game featured a board that, as DG said, was not going to lead to a tie; it was all down to this game. Fortunately for me, I was the higher seed and happily took the first turn advantage. After we both open Jack/Silver, I got the better reshuffle for Squire/Wharf against two Farming Villages. DG got stuck on $4 another turn, and didn't get his first Wharf until I had my first King's Court. We went back and forth buying up engine pieces, but I was the first to connect KC+Wharf. I used my Squire to collect more Silvers to keep my economy high; after the opening hands, DG never drew less than $4, so buying a Squire would have meant passing on a Farming Village. (on turn 9 he got Farming Village+Wharf, he could have had KC+Squire then, but I think he probably made the right move).

After drawing KC+Wharf, the game snowballed my direction, but Squire was an important part of that, and DG never did get one. The Silver gain gave me way more economy than DG, and after playing 13 Silvers on turn 13, I was able to easily count that DG only had 5 Silvers, letting me push the KC pile closer to the edge without going too far. In the end, DG resigned-by-PPR, allowing me to pile out the Provinces and take a handful of victory Duchies.

michaeljb 45 - 22 DG

This was quite an intense series, and I definitely got a decent helping of shuffle luck in each of my victories, and DG's wins were well deserved. I also appreciate DG's help in defeating Stef ;)

I'm glad that I was able to win it in 7, unlike my Avs losing in overtime in 7 :(
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 12:27:58 am by michaeljb »
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DG

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2014, 07:52:10 am »
+1

I haven't got much more to say about a few of those games against michaeljb. Game #3 was interesting as I'd never played beggar/counting house before and I'll take any opinions how that should have been played and what is most likely to win. For the game as played, I could have chosen to play a beggar from hand once instead of revealing it to a swindler, and I'd bought my own swindlers on false logic involving a lead. In game #7 I looked at my turn 3 hand and sternly told myself that I needed a 5 coin hand for a wharf but then played in a way that risked 4 coin hands. It could have drawn better but my Dominion batteries were clearly getting low by that stage.

Congratulations to Michael. Well played. Good luck in the semi final.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2014, 10:48:58 pm »
+5

AdamH defeats Smartie 4-3

Twitch stream
YouTube video playlist


Well, there's the quarterfinal match. It looks dramatic because it went to the tiebreaker match, but most of the games were very swingy and didn't seem all that skill-based. If I was knocked out in a match like this I'd be very disappointed but that's me.


Game 1: AdamH 26, Smartie 20
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Squire, Chancellor, Develop, Ironworks, Scout, Baker, Counting House, Rebuild, Soothsayer, Stables

Rebuild/Chancellor mirror. I get a good shuffle, a bad shuffle and a good shuffle and when the smoke is cleared we split the Duchies 4-4 and he has two extra Estates in his deck. I opt for Turbo Rebuild to finish out the game and I'm able to get 4 Provinces and mill an extra one for the win. First player advantage played a key role here in the endgame, but it turns out not in the Duchy split.


Game 2: Smartie 15, AdamH 9
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Hamlet, Chancellor, Fortune Teller, Militia, Moneylender, Tournament, Ill-Gotten Gains, Merchant Guild, Venture, Forge

IGG mirror. He opens with a Moneylender which seems a little weird. Militia hurts a lot and he gets those too. We split Curses 5-5 but the Curses hurt me a little more as second player. He wins the Duchy split 5-3 and that's game over.


Game 3: Smartie 28, AdamH 18
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Pawn, University, Loan, Oasis, Bridge, Rats, Remodel, Knights, Rogue, Goons, with Colony/Platinum

Ugly game. There's no draw and nothing else to do, and I don't know what the best thing is. I don't play this game very well and there's discussion later in this thread about it so I'll just defer to that, but he does get a T3 Goons and I don't get mine until much later (mostly because I go for Knights kind of quickly to try and catch up). Anyway I get crushed here.


Game 4: AdamH 36, Smartie 21
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Chancellor, Storeroom (bane), Cutpurse, Nomad Camp, Remodel, Thief, Young Witch, Festival, Horn of Plenty, Mint, Treasury

Young Witch with a terrible bane. The only other thing worth putting in your deck is Treasury on exactly $5, so my first player advantage lets me shuffle Curses into his deck faster. He gets a T3 Mint but I still win the Big Money mirror.


Game 5: AdamH 25, Smartie 18
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Transmute, Duchess, Bridge, Feodum, Contraband, Ill-Gotten Gains, Minion, Rabble, Hoard, Possession

An exciting IGG mirror. He opens with Bridge and I wait for terminals until I can get Duchesses. I went first and I won. Yup.


Game 6: Smartie 36, AdamH 28
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Herbalist, Great Hall, Philosopher's Stone, Plaza, Sea Hag, Spy, Treasure Map, Worker's Village, Stables, Stash

Sea Hag with Herbalist/Phil Stone. I'm not able to get a Potion or a Phil Stone for a long time, but the game really comes down to the last shuffle. I have 3 Phil Stones to his two, but I don't see any of mine until the bottom of my shuffle, and he's able to put together a double Province turn to put the game out of reach.

The chat seemed to think that I was terribly misplaying this by getting too many Herbalists. When I play Herbalist/Phil Stone I've found that getting as many Herbalists as possible as quickly as possible is usually best, and my second-to-last shuffle shows why that's a good thing. Am I wrong here?


Game 7: Smartie 26, AdamH 38
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Shanty Town, Trade Route, Ironmonger, Talisman, Harvest, Knights, Pillage, Stash, Tribute, Altar

No draw (again). Knights are the main thing going on, but I get an Altar on my second shuffle and he doesn't, and Knights luck doesn't go well enough for him to catch up.


I feel like I won a coin flip with this match, every game was a mirror match and the start player won 6 out of 7 games -- any differences in our play were minor. In any case, thanks for the match, Smartie! I'm sorry we couldn't build any massive engines
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 10:43:10 am by AdamH »
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2014, 09:59:47 am »
+3

AdamH, deciding to be the RisingJaguar of GD3.
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lespeutere

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2014, 12:04:56 pm »
+5

Question is, how big a ratio of active members remember RisingJaguar. :-)
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DG

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2014, 06:13:53 pm »
0

Well done to Adam for getting through. In his commentary he seemed to suggest his match had no interesting kingdoms, but I think this looks rather tricky with some enticing dead ends. How should you play it?

Pawn, University, Loan, Oasis, Bridge, Rats, Remodel, Knights (Sir Vander top), Rogue, Goons.
Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Colony, Platinum, Potion.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2014, 06:18:30 pm »
+1

I personally still like remodel/rats there.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2014, 06:19:18 pm »
0

In his commentary he seemed to suggest his match had no interesting kingdoms

When I say non-interesting, that usually means I can't build a big engine. Also, it means that luck plays a big factor in who wins and that the best strategy doesn't involve much skill (skill = playing lots of action cards)

I realize this definition is not a good one, but when I said that, that's what I meant.

That being said, this is defo the kingdom I played the worst out of all of them. I'm really interested to hear what people have to say.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2014, 06:44:53 pm »
0

AdamH, deciding to be the RisingJaguar of GD3.

What's the story behind that? :)

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2014, 08:11:51 pm »
0

AdamH, deciding to be the RisingJaguar of GD3.

What's the story behind that? :)

In either the 2011 or 2012 Dominion Strategy tournaments (which were 256 players, single elims), RisingJaguar was a somewhat low seeded player that placed 3rd. He was underrated because he didn't play Iso that much; after the tournament finished, I believe he started playing more regularly and was consistently in the top 10.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2014, 08:17:36 pm »
+1

That being said, this is defo the kingdom I played the worst out of all of them. I'm really interested to hear what people have to say.

This one was tough. Smartie's turn 3 Goons was killer. You were not able to play your first Goons until turn 15, I think. That's bad news. However, in the chat, we were curious as to why you both went so heavily for Oasis. Oasis is just bad in a three card hand here; especially with Colonies present. Silver would have been better every time in order to help you build to bigger money and Goons.

Regarding the Herbalist-Phil Stone game, I really wanted to see Stables engine versus Herb-Phil Stone. Alas, it was another mirror. And 2P kept rearing its ugly head.

Also, your play on board 1 (the Rebuild board) was impressive. You got bad shuffle luck early and just played better late. It seems like you made every correct decision you could make. It was not first player advantage that gave you the win there.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2014, 08:31:51 pm »
+1

Also, your play on board 1 (the Rebuild board) was impressive. You got bad shuffle luck early and just played better late. It seems like you made every correct decision you could make. It was not first player advantage that gave you the win there.

We have AI to thank for that. I mentioned this on one of the streams but he took the time after our first match to PM me and really help me improve after he squashed me in round 3. I'm a much better Rebuild player now because of him.

AdamH, deciding to be the RisingJaguar of GD3.

What's the story behind that? :)

Here's the thread

They did interviews back then! Wow, it's been a while, it would be cool to do that. It would also be cool (this was brought up in chat) to play a for-funsies third place match with the designed kingdoms like they did back then. Kirian, is there any chance of this happening?

Now I need to figure out when I can play my semifinal match  ;D
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liopoil

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2014, 09:14:39 pm »
0

well, this is gokodom, not the dominionstrategychampionship. Although we are using designed kingdoms for the finals like that.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2014, 11:41:27 pm »
+3

It would also be cool (this was brought up in chat) to play a for-funsies third place match with the designed kingdoms like they did back then. Kirian, is there any chance of this happening?

I suppose it could be done if the two players wanted to do so.  It could certainly make for interesting commentary.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2014, 11:55:45 pm »
+2

It would also be cool (this was brought up in chat) to play a for-funsies third place match with the designed kingdoms like they did back then. Kirian, is there any chance of this happening?

I suppose it could be done if the two players wanted to do so.  It could certainly make for interesting commentary.

I'd definitely enjoy this.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #60 on: May 06, 2014, 07:07:08 am »
+1

Also, your play on board 1 (the Rebuild board) was impressive. You got bad shuffle luck early and just played better late. It seems like you made every correct decision you could make. It was not first player advantage that gave you the win there.

We have AI to thank for that. I mentioned this on one of the streams but he took the time after our first match to PM me and really help me improve after he squashed me in round 3. I'm a much better Rebuild player now because of him.

This is a bit ironic, since Rebuild was a bad buy in our Round 3 game.  But absolutely your Rebuild play in game 1 of your match with Smartie was top notch.  Well done!
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #61 on: May 06, 2014, 05:43:40 pm »
+1

AdamH defeats Smartie 4-3
Congratulations, hope I can watch the next round live again
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2014, 08:25:33 am »
+2

i also hope that.

And sorry andrew, but i would like so much to hear "the cry of the beast" at the end. I think i'm addict, and i absolutely need to have my weekly dose.

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #63 on: May 08, 2014, 12:49:18 am »
+13

AI/ragingduckd defeats AdamH 4-2

Game 1: AI wins


Code: [Select]
Pearl Diver, Stonemason, Chancellor, Warehouse, Advisor, Plaza, Scavenger, Throne Room, Young Witch, Outpost, Forge
Man... did this really take a whole hour?  My apologies to Adam and to those who watched.  The further I get in this tourney the slower I seem to play.

It's interesting how strong this engine is given how flimsily it all hangs together.  Take away any of Forge, Outpost, Young Witch, Advisor, or Stonemason, and you might have to just forget about the whole plan.  As it is, it takes me until T12 to accomplish much of anything, but then suddenly I'm drawing my deck twice each turn, Adam has 10 Curses, and it's all over.


Game 2: AdamH wins


Code: [Select]
Herbalist, Masterpiece, Nomad Camp, Salvager, Worker's Village, Explorer, Margrave, Tribute, Upgrade, Border Village
This starts as a mirror, but with some subtle differences in our opening play.  Adam's Salvager is better than my Nomad Camp.  My trashing Coppers with Upgrade is better than his turning Estates into Silvers.  IMO, it's almost dead even after my T13 (though I've had an extra turn).

Adam's T13 decides the game when he hits a big village/Margrave chain, trashes 2 more starting cards and adds 2 more BV/Margrave pairs.  I'd be in a tight spot even with a similar draw, but I fizzle and basically have to just gamble on Adam drawing poorly or getting careless about piles in the next 1-2 turns.  I buy a BV + Salvager to try to maximize the chance that I have the buys and money to exploit such an opportunity if it arises.  I get one last chance to steal the game on T14 by pile-driving Estates and taking the last BV + Duchy, but I don't get there and Adam ends it comfortably it on T15.


Game 3: AI wins


Code: [Select]
Shanty Town, Bridge, Fortress, Marauder, Militia, Mining Village, Procession, Rats, Torturer, Vault
Rats and Madness!  I shudder to think of less experienced players trying to "learn" from my play here.

Procession-Rats is a slick way to keep moving quickly through your deck, particularly if there's a strong $5 action and if you've got some junk to trash anyway.  Unfortunately, it also sets a self-destruct timer for your deck, as you'll be full of Rats in a few shuffles and you're doomed if you don't have a way to 3-pile by then.  Fortress gives you a little more breathing room, as you can sometimes draw past your Rats by repeatedly trashing the same Fortress, but you're still playing with fire.

I definitely started the Proc-Rats nonsense way too early and I'm starting to get in serious trouble by the time I hit a lucky 3-pile opportunity on T13.  And despite my first-player advantage on this cut-throat board, I win by just 2 VP.  I'm sure I'd have been better off if my first Rat had been a Fortress instead, and I'd started on Proc-Rats only a shuffle later.


Game 4: AdamH wins


Code: [Select]
Embargo, Fortune Teller, Farming Village, Gardens, Island, Sea Hag, Inn, Laboratory, Upgrade, Grand Market
Sea Hag was a lousy open and Adam crushed me with ruthless efficiency.  I think the best 4/3 opening was Fortune Teller + Silver.


Game 5: AI wins


Code: [Select]
Menagerie, Oasis, Philosopher's Stone, Noble Brigand, Pirate Ship, Quarry, Tournament, Merchant Ship, Wharf, Adventurer
I've played around with this goofy Wharf/cantrip engine since our match and I think it's stronger than it looks.  Even without villages, it can do some impressive things here.  They key cards are Quarry, which lets you pile up engine parts really fast in a 2-Wharfs-per-turn deck, and the 3 cantrips, which work really well together.

Oasis helps Menagerie survive a few duplicates, and diversity increases quickly in a Tournament game, as you'll pick up Provinces, unique Prizes, and eventually Duchies.  Menagerie also soft-counters Followers, as both the discarding and the Curses help to activate it.  Trusty Steed is a fantastic addition, of course, but Bag of Gold is great too and gaining Duchies doesn't get you in nearly as much trouble as normal.

I agree with Adam that I was very lucky to catch a T6 Province.  I'm not set up to compete for the first Province, particularly not against the all-money deck that Adam builds.  Connecting Tourney + Province is a different matter, however, as the draw from Wharf and sifting from the cantrips is a big deal.

In the end though, it's just a Tourney game, so shuffle luck is huge.  And Goko makes your shuffle luck, right?


Game 6: AI wins


Code: [Select]
Beggar, Scrying Pool, Ambassador, Develop, Loan, Market Square, Remodel, Cache, Laboratory, Mine
This is a pretty scary game.  I'm going up against Ambassador with just a Loan and a Develop.  My goal is to keep nearly even on trashing while turning Estates into Market Squares for Scrying Pool to draw.  It works out well for me, but I suspect it's a pretty high-variance plan.  It wouldn't have been too surprising for Adam's Ambassador to slow me down enough that I can't compete for Provinces.

We end up in a fairly interesting endgame... not a PPR situation exactly, since leaving even two Provinces isn't safe.  Maybe call it TPR?  In any case, we end up Duchy dancing with 3 Provinces left.  Adam makes a very interesting and creative endgame play on T17, remodeling Duchy-into-Duchy to leave exactly one Duchy in the supply.  His goal is to force me to break TPR by preventing me from taking double-Duchy in response.

It turns out that this doesn't quite work, as Adam doesn't actually have the cash left to tie on T18 if I just double-Province, but I like the play anyway because it gave me a very difficult choice that I could easily have screwed up.  I certainly didn't realize that Adam was low on cash during the actual game.  My reasoning was only that he would need all his +buys to gain the necessary Estates to tie.  And I also lost my head and gained 5 Gold with Market Squares, which was almost certainly wrong and resulted directly from having had to think so hard about his Duchy-into-Duchy play.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 11:54:11 pm by ragingduckd »
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #64 on: May 08, 2014, 12:52:55 am »
+3

Here's the twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/adamhorton/b/526808555

I'm going to bed now. Thanks for the match AI.

Also, I'm assuming we're all up for a for-funsies third place match?
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #65 on: May 08, 2014, 07:13:04 am »
+2

Game 3: AI wins


Code: [Select]
Shanty Town, Bridge, Fortress, Marauder, Militia, Mining Village, Procession, Rats, Torturer, Vault

OMFG

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2014, 07:14:32 am »
0

Here's the twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/adamhorton/b/526808555

I'm going to bed now. Thanks for the match AI.

Also, I'm assuming we're all up for a for-funsies third place match?

If you want the experience of having the design challenge kingdoms revealed, it should be scheduled at the same time as the championship match.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2014, 09:09:22 am »
0

Here's the twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/adamhorton/b/526808555

I'm going to bed now. Thanks for the match AI.

Also, I'm assuming we're all up for a for-funsies third place match?

If you want the experience of having the design challenge kingdoms revealed, it should be scheduled at the same time as the championship match.

I'm up for it.  Hopefully we would be able to schedule both matches at the same time.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2014, 11:16:25 am »
+13

AI defeats AdamH 4-2

Video playlist on YouTube
Entire stream on Twitch (First game starts about 17:00 in)


Going into this match I knew that it would be the hardest match of the tournament for me. I lost 0-3 to AI in the swiss portion of the match, but I know I'm a better player now than I was then. I had something to prove, and I know it sounds cheesy and empty, but I did prove something in this match even though I lost...


Game 1: AdamH 14, AI 15
Game log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Pearl Diver, Stonemason, Chancellor, Warehouse (bane), Advisor, Plaza, Scavenger, Throne Room, Young Witch, Outpost, Forge

This game took about an hour to play, and almost all of the time was spent watching AI play his cards. I underestimate Advisor as a source of draw and Stonemason as a gainer on this board and AI constructs an extremely complex engine around those two cards. The things he does are truly impressive, like giving me all 10 Curses in the course of two turns. I haven't played many games with AI, but a lot of them have made my brain hurt and this was certainly one of them -- I should mention that in the brain-hurty games, he has a distinct advantage.

If anyone writes an article about Advisor, this game should be linked. Through very precise play he builds his deck around mitigating the weakness of Advisor as your primary source of draw. I never stood a chance.


Game 2: AI 4, AdamH 16
Game log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Herbalist, Masterpiece, Nomad Camp, Salvager, Worker's Village, Explorer, Margrave, Tribute, Upgrade, Border Village

This one is mostly a mirror revolving around Border Village/Margrave. We build similar decks but I'm able to out-pace him by one or two turns. Though our play was similar for the most part, he gets a Nomad Camp on T2 and I get a Salvager instead. I get an Upgrade slightly earlier than he does, and this accounts for the main differences in our play.

As for the game, I don't think the Nomad Camp vs. Salvager made any difference for the cards we were able to buy -- the Salvager certainly didn't hurt me -- so I was just able to thin an Estate or two early, and coupled with the earlier thinning/Silver gain from my earlier Upgrade, I think this gave me a better deck. Even though he hit two $6 turns before I ever got one, and even though I had a shuffle where I saw all four of my Margraves in the same hand (with no Village, yeah I whined about it), I never felt like I was all that far behind. In the end, I'm able to put myself in a good endgame position, and AI lets the third pile get low enough that I can three-pile on a win. After getting severely outplayed in the first game, I feel I slightly outplayed him here, and I'm able to take down my first win against AI in the whole tournament!

EDIT: After reading the chat, it turns out I probably could have piled Estates to win earlier. I completely missed this!


Game 3: AI 4, AdamH 2
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Shanty Town, Bridge, Fortress, Marauder, Militia, Mining Village, Procession, Rats, Torturer, Vault, with Shelters

This game. Ohhhhhhh boy, this game. This is the one everyone will be talking about (at least I hope). Junking attacks everywhere with Village+Torturer, and the only trashing is Procession+Rats. So that means no trashing, right? Apparently not. AI floods his deck with Rats and somehow manages to put together a deck that can play several Torturers every turn.

I'll refrain from comment for now because I want to see what other people have to say -- I scanned the chat after this game but I want to know what people think.


Game 4: AdamH, AI resigned
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Embargo, Fortune Teller, Farming Village, Gardens, Island, Sea Hag, Inn, Laboratory, Upgrade, Grand Market

Nice payload here with Lab and Grand Market, and Upgrade is enough of a reason for me to ignore Sea Hag, which I do. AI goes for not one, but two Sea Hags, which has to be not one, but two mistakes; and because of this I'm able to win the Lab split 8-2 with a thinner deck, better cards, and a small points lead. AI resigns. Out of all of the games, this is the one where I feel I outplayed him pretty handily.

It's strange that I started the discussion on when to ignore Cursing and then it's so easy for me to make the right call here. With Sea Hag and IGG I just understand it so well, but Marauder and Familiar just leave me clueless -- maybe my weakness is not with the price of junking in general but rather with those two particular cards...


Game 5: AdamH 30, AI 33
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Menagerie, Oasis, Philosopher's Stone, Noble Brigand, Pirate Ship, Quarry, Tournament, Merchant Ship, Wharf, Adventurer

No Villages (except for Trusty Steed), no attacks (except for Followers), and no trashing. This board is the essence of everything I hate about Tournament. I build a more straightforward Tournament deck, getting Oasis over Silver and loading up on Tournaments with two Merchant Ships. I get two Provinces quickly and I'm ready to get myself some Followers. Whoop-dee-doo.

AI builds a very strange deck with 5 Wharves and a Quarry -- somehow spiking a Province a shuffle earlier than I do (which I think had to be super-lucky for him) and then once he collides Tournament and Province it becomes clear what his strategy is: get the one and only village (the horse) and have two Wharves in play every turn. Use Oasis to enable Menageries for draw. I have a lead but I'm unable to hold on and he wins the game somewhat comfortably.

Now I admit I'm not the best person in the world at playing Tournament games so maybe I'm not right here, but the more I think about this game, the more I think my strategy was probably better and he got really lucky. Now you make your own shuffle luck, and AI commented to me after the match that I made my own shuffle luck in that game. I couldn't tell if he was being sarcastic (it was already really late), but let me at least say what I have to say and see if it holds up to scrutiny.

To not collide Tournament/Province on the first shuffle I could was pretty unlucky -- I had 3 Tournaments, 2 Provinces, and a partridge in a pear tree (OK, maybe not that, but I had a few Oases) and it never lined up for me. Unlucky, and I think my odds of hitting should be better than his since he was running 5 Wharves in his deck at that time. Also, I think his first Province buy was *really* lucky. What was he going to do if he didn't get the Steed? I think he went all-in here and got lucky to pull it out, which is fair I suppose. T15 really hurt me when he blocked my Tournament -- he needed to have one of two Provinces in a 5-card hand when his deck was 37 cards -- about a 25% chance. And Oasis helps Menagerie but I feel like with 7 Coppers in his deck and Wharves in play, his deck was much more successful than it "should have been."

It's possible that I'm still underestimating his deck, but between this and Game 3 I would play the same strategy again and I'm not yet convinced that I'd be wrong to do so. Now hopefully people can tell me why his decks were able to work the way they were. It's potentially very enlightening to lose to these kinds of decks, but I don't know the takeaway from these two games yet.


Game 6: AI 45, AdamH 30
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Beggar, Scrying Pool, Ambassador, Develop, Loan, Market Square, Remodel, Cache, Laboratory, Mine

I just get outplayed here. I think Labs will come online earlier for draw so I go for that over Scrying Pool, but that is not to be since he's able to draw so much more. On my last turn, I make a neat endgame play, which I'm sort of proud of -- with a perfect draw I might have been able to win, but it's not to be.

------

Almost all of these boards I think had a very high skill component, and they were mostly very complex. I'm really happy I got to play a match like this with AI, and I'm honored to be crushed by him.

I entered this tournament with the goal of making the finals. Once I did, I considered it a complete success. To actually make a run this deep is beyond anything I could have imagined when the tournament started and I'm really proud to have made it this far. There's no question in my mind that AI is the strongest player in the tournament and I'm lucky to have been able to play him twice. I learned a lot from the first match and I know I'll learn a lot from this one too, and this is the main reason I join these tournaments in the first place. I got to have what I consider my best moment in my Dominion "career," upsetting SCSN with a Jack-in-an-engine board to finalize a comeback from 0-2. I will never forget that game.

I got to make my mark on the community with an unexpected deep run and I'm honored to be compared to someone like RisingJaguar -- I've never considered myself to be one of the "top players in the world" and I still find it weird whenever people refer to me that way, but after a performance like this I might have to re-evaluate that.

And I had such a blast streaming all of my matches; who knew that you can get such an audience for live-streaming Dominion when I can't even interact with the chat? Reading the chat logs after the match is always a treat for me, seeing how many people show up and seeing their encouragement and criticisms. Maybe it's not fair but I feel like a lot of people were rooting for me just because I was streaming (I rooted for the streamer by default in all the matches I watched) but it was an amazing feeling and I only have the people of this community to thank for it. This tournament has been so enlightening for what people want to see from Dominion streams, and I truly believe they can be successful, particularly for tournament matches.

And so many other people streamed their matches too! I never saw that coming -- I thought I'd be the only one, and Nick would do it just so I wouldn't be. Even Stef streamed a couple of his matches! My weekly streams have been better attended since the start of the tournament, too. I was hopeful that GokoDom would be good for streaming Dominion, but this reception has exceeded my hopes by quite a lot.

I started making Dominion videos in late 2012, and my first videos were of me losing my first round match in the DS2012 Championships. I thought I'd try making videos because I saw Wandering Winder do it and I thought "why not?" I thought maybe I could get better at the game by having people comment on my play. It's been quite a journey since then and I've come a long way, but there's no doubt I'm a better player now than I was then, and there's no doubt that broadcasting Dominion has been a big part of that. I play my best when I'm streaming and focused, just look at my tournament matches.

...so if you've been watching these streams and enjoying them, if you've streamed your matches and didn't hate everything about it, if you just want to get better at playing the game; I hope my success in this tournament will inspire you, in the same way that WW inspired me, to go for it. It's been a lot of time and work I've put into my channels but it's been so rewarding on so many levels.

Finally, I want to thank Kirian for putting these together. Co-modding the tournament, I got to see first-hand the amount of work he puts into these, and to think he didn't have help for the first two GokoDoms! Kirian is the most respected member of the forum and he deserves it. When the tournament is over, I've got something special in store for him (well, it's for everybody) to show my thanks. This is going to be good, I promise ;D
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 12:01:10 pm by AdamH »
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2014, 02:14:06 pm »
+1

EDIT: After reading the chat, it turns out I probably could have piled Estates to win earlier. I completely missed this!

I said this a lot in the chat, quite vehemently, but the specific thing I described would not have worked, you would have been $2 short. So I was just full of shit, though I think there probably was a way to 3 pile. I never figured out the specific way though because the logs don't track the trash and I don't want to count everything up to reconstruct the game state. It's not as simple as I made it sound in the chat. It's also tougher because AI still had a couple Estates.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2014, 02:16:48 pm »
0

EDIT: After reading the chat, it turns out I probably could have piled Estates to win earlier. I completely missed this!

I said this a lot in the chat, quite vehemently, but the specific thing I described would not have worked, you would have been $2 short. So I was just full of shit, though I think there probably was a way to 3 pile. I never figured out the specific way though because the logs don't track the trash and I don't want to count everything up to reconstruct the game state. It's not as simple as I made it sound in the chat. It's also tougher because AI still had a couple Estates.

This may be true, but I should have been thinking about piling Estates and possibly adjusting my play/buys to make it more possible.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #71 on: May 08, 2014, 02:44:32 pm »
0

Hello,

do we have the chat saved of this wonderful match? It is such a shame that it was too late for being awake.

By the way, Alan, great first analysis of the match. I enjoyed reading it.

Game 5: AdamH 30, AI 33
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Menagerie, Oasis, Philosopher's Stone, Noble Brigand, Pirate Ship, Quarry, Tournament, Merchant Ship, Wharf, Adventurer

Game 5: With the Merchant ship and surely not enough draw you did set yourself up for problems colliding your province with tournament.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 03:05:14 pm by SirD »
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #72 on: May 08, 2014, 02:51:24 pm »
+1

Hello,

do we have the chat saved of this wonderful match? It is such a shame that it was too late for being awake.

By the way, Alan, great first analysis of the match. I enjoyed reading it.

Should be attached to this post. It's not edited and you can't really synch it up to the video precisely, but this is the best I can do.

EDIT: is this something that people would like to see? I can pretty it up and include it in my write-up for future matches.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 02:53:01 pm by AdamH »
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #73 on: May 08, 2014, 03:00:41 pm »
0

EDIT: is this something that people would like to see? I can pretty it up and include it in my write-up for future matches.

Well, I really admire titandrake's solution of putting the chat on the same recording screen as the game screen. This is especially useful since somebody always is sleeping during a stream :)

However this text format you posted is fine for me (my editor formats it well enough if I ask him to). So thanks.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 03:41:12 pm by SirD »
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #74 on: May 08, 2014, 03:20:01 pm »
0

EDIT: is this something that people would like to see? I can pretty it up and include it in my write-up for future matches.

Well, I really admire jsh's solution of putting the chat on the same recording screen as the game screen. This is especially useful since somebody always is sleeping during a stream :)

However this text format you posted is fine for me (my editor formats it well enough if I ask him to). So thanks.

I do this?  Must mean someone else...  That or I'm doing something I'm unaware of
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2014, 03:47:37 pm »
+1

I know Titandrake has done this on some of his streams, but I don't know of a way to do it without me being able to see the chat while I play, which is a no-no for tournament matches.

I think it's better for people to be able to speak freely about the game, that is. For smaller streams or other circumstances I understand being able to see the chat during the game.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #76 on: May 08, 2014, 04:34:09 pm »
+1

I know Titandrake has done this on some of his streams, but I don't know of a way to do it without me being able to see the chat while I play, which is a no-no for tournament matches.

I think it's better for people to be able to speak freely about the game, that is. For smaller streams or other circumstances I understand being able to see the chat during the game.

I love this community.  Even with the ability to have the collective knowledge of other people watching honesty is choosen.  Way to be an awesome example of sportsmanship Adam.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #77 on: May 08, 2014, 04:43:12 pm »
+2

I know Titandrake has done this on some of his streams, but I don't know of a way to do it without me being able to see the chat while I play, which is a no-no for tournament matches.

I think it's better for people to be able to speak freely about the game, that is. For smaller streams or other circumstances I understand being able to see the chat during the game.

My stream setup is:

Maximized Firefox for Dominion, with the image cropped to only show the play area
A maximized IRC client right behind it. If the window is minimized, it doesn't get redrawn, so you have to cover it up with another window. I crop this window down to only the bottom section of the screen, so it sees the newer messages.

This works for tournaments, but for more casual streams where you want to read chat, it can get pretty annoying to jump between the two windows unless you have a dual-monitor setup. Dominion really needs all the space it can get, so I'm not sure how to deal with that.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #78 on: May 08, 2014, 04:46:50 pm »
0

I know Titandrake has done this on some of his streams, but I don't know of a way to do it without me being able to see the chat while I play, which is a no-no for tournament matches.

I think it's better for people to be able to speak freely about the game, that is. For smaller streams or other circumstances I understand being able to see the chat during the game.

My stream setup is:

Maximized Firefox for Dominion, with the image cropped to only show the play area
A maximized IRC client right behind it. If the window is minimized, it doesn't get redrawn, so you have to cover it up with another window. I crop this window down to only the bottom section of the screen, so it sees the newer messages.

This works for tournaments, but for more casual streams where you want to read chat, it can get pretty annoying to jump between the two windows unless you have a dual-monitor setup. Dominion really needs all the space it can get, so I'm not sure how to deal with that.

Two computers!  (that would be my plan anyway, but I happen to have 4)
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #79 on: May 08, 2014, 04:55:52 pm »
0

It's really cool how so many of you were able to stream your matches. It inspired me to get a headset that has low enough sensitivity to only hear my voice. Outside distraction was the main deterrent for not streaming my matches live. As RTT said, simply recording games isn't cool anymore.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #80 on: May 08, 2014, 07:40:43 pm »
+1

Adam, you are awesome! Now you know.
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JOG

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #81 on: May 09, 2014, 03:17:31 pm »
+8

jog defeats michaeljb 3-0

1. https://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140509/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1399651597021.txt
Alchemist, Bureaucrat,  Ill-Gotten Gains, Marauder, Pillage, Possession, Potion, Ruins,  Soothsayer, Spice Merchant, Wandering Minstrel, Oracle

Slog with marauders, soothsayers, and IGGs.  I go for soothsayer early while he goes for marauders.  My opening was spice merchant/silver while his was marauder/silver.  I'm not sure if it was right, but my thinking with the spice merchant was to increase cycling to play soothsayers more often.  I was able to province twice while his draws only let him get one. 

2. https://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140509/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1399652398563.txt
Adventurer, Embassy,  Explorer, Familiar, Hoard, Horn of Plenty, Mining Village, Potion, Province, Trading Post, Watchtower, Beggar

Horn of plenty game.  There is good filtering and some draw with embassy, villages, and light trashing, so HOP megaturn is possible.  Familiars can get in the way of this plan, but watchtowers can counter these.  We both open silver/watchtower.  I pick up a potion on turn 3 for familiars while he concentrates picking up as many villages, embassies, and HOPs as possible.  On turn 15 I am finally able to play my familiars without having the curses blocked by watchtowers.  This slows him down and helps to empty piles.  I'm able to end it the next turn by using HOPs to get curses  to empty piles.  If the draws had been a little different in this one, it could have easily gone the other way. 

3. https://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140509/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1399653310367.txt
Alchemist, Black Market, Colony,  Nobles, Peddler, Platinum, Potion, Province, Ruins, Taxman, Throne Room, Trade Route, Trading Post, Upgrade, Vagrant

Colony game so it's more likely alchemists are good.  I open black market/potion while he opens black market/taxman.  My deck comes together, with the help of good draws, very quickly.  It ends on piles in 15 turns. 


 
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2014, 05:27:29 pm »
+1

Congratulation! This will be a great final.

Would be a really nice if someone could video it (even without sound or direct streaming). But well, whatever happens is fine. I really like Gokodom, witnessing the best of Dominion.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #83 on: May 10, 2014, 10:55:23 pm »
+1

EDIT: After reading the chat, it turns out I probably could have piled Estates to win earlier. I completely missed this!

I said this a lot in the chat, quite vehemently, but the specific thing I described would not have worked, you would have been $2 short. So I was just full of shit, though I think there probably was a way to 3 pile. I never figured out the specific way though because the logs don't track the trash and I don't want to count everything up to reconstruct the game state. It's not as simple as I made it sound in the chat. It's also tougher because AI still had a couple Estates.

I was equally certain that Adam had the 3-pile win during the game, but probably for different reasons, given that I couldn't actually see his hand. ;)

It turns out that there is indeed a way to 3-pile from the point shown in the screenshot below, but it's harder than I'd thought.  I have two Estates and Adam has no VP yet:

Edit: Argh! I just tried my approach with actual cards and it doesn't actually work!  Someone call that Chameleon guy!



Also, I finally added analysis to my match report.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 11:49:11 pm by ragingduckd »
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #84 on: May 10, 2014, 11:58:38 pm »
+1

EDIT: After reading the chat, it turns out I probably could have piled Estates to win earlier. I completely missed this!

I said this a lot in the chat, quite vehemently, but the specific thing I described would not have worked, you would have been $2 short. So I was just full of shit, though I think there probably was a way to 3 pile. I never figured out the specific way though because the logs don't track the trash and I don't want to count everything up to reconstruct the game state. It's not as simple as I made it sound in the chat. It's also tougher because AI still had a couple Estates.
[puzzle]

Hm, everything I try runs into issues where you might not draw the right card, and lose out on a card of cycling, which then makes things not work out. I think it's possible to get a win with some probability, but I can't find a guarantee.

Edit: Nevermind, can't find a win. Here's my best result so far (which gets a win if AI has no Estates).


Upgrade Upgrade->BV gaining Salv (1 Upgrade, 1 WV in hand. BV, Salv in discard)
Play WV (draw one of BV,Salv)
Upgrade Silver->WV (draw the other, one WV in discard but not relevant)
Salvager BV. Have $6 + $4 + $6 = $16 and 11 buys.

At this point, there is 1 BV and 3 WV left. So, you can buy BV (gain WV), and the two WV, and have enough to buy an Estate. Alternatively you can piledrive Estates, but then you still have a BV left and you probably lose.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 12:22:21 am by Titandrake »
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2014, 08:08:11 am »
+2

iirc Adam's last Margrave drew only 2 cards, with a subsequent Upgrade play drawing nothing, so the Margrave was effectively a Market Square. Not playing the Margrave but instead Upgrading it (drawing your 2nd last card) into Border Village-Estate, then playing a 2nd Upgrade (drawing your "last" card) to Upgrade your 3rd Upgrade into the last Border Village and another Estate would leave two piles empty with 6 Estates left. You now have $12 left in hand and I'm pretty sure there were enough buys to end it.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2014, 08:15:21 am »
+2

EDIT: After reading the chat, it turns out I probably could have piled Estates to win earlier. I completely missed this!

I said this a lot in the chat, quite vehemently, but the specific thing I described would not have worked, you would have been $2 short. So I was just full of shit, though I think there probably was a way to 3 pile. I never figured out the specific way though because the logs don't track the trash and I don't want to count everything up to reconstruct the game state. It's not as simple as I made it sound in the chat. It's also tougher because AI still had a couple Estates.
[puzzle]




Hm, everything I try runs into issues where you might not draw the right card, and lose out on a card of cycling, which then makes things not work out. I think it's possible to get a win with some probability, but I can't find a guarantee.

Edit: Nevermind, can't find a win. Here's my best result so far (which gets a win if AI has no Estates).


Upgrade Upgrade->BV gaining Salv (1 Upgrade, 1 WV in hand. BV, Salv in discard)
Play WV (draw one of BV,Salv)
Upgrade Silver->WV (draw the other, one WV in discard but not relevant)
Salvager BV. Have $6 + $4 + $6 = $16 and 11 buys.

At this point, there is 1 BV and 3 WV left. So, you can buy BV (gain WV), and the two WV, and have enough to buy an Estate. Alternatively you can piledrive Estates, but then you still have a BV left and you probably lose.


That is actually what i wanted to suggest when i thought of a forced 3- pile win there. Didn't have in mind that Andrew still had 2 Estates left.

But i think i found a slightly different 3 pile win for that turn here.


Upgrade Upgrade into BV Salvager before the last Margrave is played (yes he already had 2 in hand)
Here you trigger a shuffle so now you have 2 of the cards which the Margrave drew for adam  in the draw pile and BV Salvager in the discard pile.
Now play Margrave and draw those two plus BV or Salvager (trigger shuffle again). Play Upgrade draw the remaining card trashing Workersvillage gaining Duchy. Salvage the BV. Now you have 6(salvage)+6(silver)+6(copper)= 18 Coins
buy BV gaining WW and buy 3 WW for the pile out. Winning by 1 VP


Edit: ok i see SCSN already posted something in this direction while i was writing this. But no the last Margrave actually drew 3 cards! (Silver,Silver, Ugrade) and only the one Ugrade wasted a draw.

Your solution will still work though as you also have another WW left in hand to draw the last card that you need.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 08:38:40 am by MarkowKette »
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ragingduckd

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2014, 09:23:55 pm »
0

iirc Adam's last Margrave drew only 2 cards, with a subsequent Upgrade play drawing nothing, so the Margrave was effectively a Market Square. Not playing the Margrave but instead Upgrading it (drawing your 2nd last card) into Border Village-Estate, then playing a 2nd Upgrade (drawing your "last" card) to Upgrade your 3rd Upgrade into the last Border Village and another Estate would leave two piles empty with 6 Estates left. You now have $12 left in hand and I'm pretty sure there were enough buys to end it.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140507/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1399517084891.txt#1-14

Adam's last Margrave drew his last 3 cards: Upgrade, Silver, Silver.  So if you Upgrade the Margrave and then play the second Upgrade, you won't necessarily draw that last Upgrade.  [Edit: Nevermind, MarkowKette (and SCSN) are correct).]

There were 8 buys at that point, btw, so yes plenty.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 07:08:57 pm by ragingduckd »
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c4master

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2014, 10:44:52 am »
0

If there's any board you could forego Ambassador, your game 6 must have been this. ;)

I would have been tempted to open Loan/Market Square. If Adam then decided to return only Estates I would pick up Develop, otherwise one Potion and then a lot more Market Squares.

I also wonder if a Young Witch on game one would have been successful for Adam. At least it would have meant not to get all the curses for him, which seems to be good enough. Once you bought the Young Witch, the game was basically over.

On game 3, did those Ruins actually help your Rats? Had it been better to open Militia?
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2014, 10:53:30 am »
0

On game 3, did those Ruins actually help your Rats? Had it been better to open Militia?

Looking back, yeah the Marauder certainly didn't help my situation, but I was under the impression that Procession/Rats is not an effective way of accomplishing anything and I thought a good player like AI wouldn't go for it.

It's unclear whether or not Procession/Rats is a good thing, at least it's unclear to me still.
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Donald X.

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2014, 04:19:33 pm »
+2

Looking back, yeah the Marauder certainly didn't help my situation, but I was under the impression that Procession/Rats is not an effective way of accomplishing anything and I thought a good player like AI wouldn't go for it.

It's unclear whether or not Procession/Rats is a good thing, at least it's unclear to me still.
I wouldn't say that Procession/Rats is a thing, but Procession/Fortress is obv. strong, and Rats/Fortress is a thing sometimes, and if you have all three you will be Processioning some Rats.
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JacquesTheBard

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2014, 12:23:10 am »
+1

Procession/Fortress. +2 cards, +4 actions, gain a 5, keep the Fortress in hand. This is why I love Dark Ages.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2014, 12:52:36 pm »
+1

As a huge rats fan, I loved seeing the Adam H vs. AI game 3.

I really enjoyed Adam's wonder at how many rats AI had in his deck and yet AI's engine still kept moving.

I'm sure there was a decent amount of luck in this game, but there was a lot of skill too and ... the amazing potential of rats!!!

(Thanks for sharing the videos.)
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2014, 07:30:18 pm »
0

Any word on when the medal matches are taking place?
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2014, 08:18:41 pm »
0

Any word on when the medal matches are taking place?

None that I know of.  Those players in the medal matches also need to coordinate with whoever was doing the kingdom builder competition, which was... who again?  My brain is going.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2014, 08:24:42 pm »
0

Any word on when the medal matches are taking place?

It sounds like everyone would be available tomorrow evening (Wednesday) at 6PM Pacific (9PM Eastern) US time, and at least jog and I are available at the same time on Thursday or on the weekend.

But we're not really clear on whether both matches should take place at the same time.  Are both matches using the winners from the kingdom design contest?  Because then I see the logic of having both matches at the same time, but it also means that people couldn't watch both live.

Kirian, aren't you the tournament director?  Direct us! :P
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #96 on: May 13, 2014, 08:32:23 pm »
0

Any word on when the medal matches are taking place?

It sounds like everyone would be available tomorrow evening (Wednesday) at 6PM Pacific (9PM Eastern) US time, and at least jog and I are available at the same time on Thursday or on the weekend.

But we're not really clear on whether both matches should take place at the same time.  Are both matches using the winners from the kingdom design contest?  Because then I see the logic of having both matches at the same time, but it also means that people couldn't watch both live.

Kirian, aren't you the tournament director?  Direct us! :P

I guess that question actually ends up directed at the bronze players.  Do you guys want to play at the same time so as to remain unspoiled?

AI, are you implying with this that you're going to cast this?
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #97 on: May 13, 2014, 08:43:01 pm »
+7

Any word on when the medal matches are taking place?

It sounds like everyone would be available tomorrow evening (Wednesday) at 6PM Pacific (9PM Eastern) US time, and at least jog and I are available at the same time on Thursday or on the weekend.

But we're not really clear on whether both matches should take place at the same time.  Are both matches using the winners from the kingdom design contest?  Because then I see the logic of having both matches at the same time, but it also means that people couldn't watch both live.

Kirian, aren't you the tournament director?  Direct us! :P

I guess that question actually ends up directed at the bronze players.  Do you guys want to play at the same time so as to remain unspoiled?

AI, are you implying with this that you're going to cast this?

Ah.  I never actually said that, did I?  Yes, I will stream my match with jog.  I'm not sure whether I'll be able to rig it to record with commentary, but I will try.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #98 on: May 13, 2014, 09:27:10 pm »
+1

Any word on when the medal matches are taking place?

It sounds like everyone would be available tomorrow evening (Wednesday) at 6PM Pacific (9PM Eastern) US time, and at least jog and I are available at the same time on Thursday or on the weekend.

But we're not really clear on whether both matches should take place at the same time.  Are both matches using the winners from the kingdom design contest?  Because then I see the logic of having both matches at the same time, but it also means that people couldn't watch both live.

Kirian, aren't you the tournament director?  Direct us! :P

I guess that question actually ends up directed at the bronze players.  Do you guys want to play at the same time so as to remain unspoiled?

AI, are you implying with this that you're going to cast this?

Ah.  I never actually said that, did I?  Yes, I will stream my match with jog.  I'm not sure whether I'll be able to rig it to record with commentary, but I will try.

If you're streaming, then I wouldn't want to stream against you -- I'd rather everybody watch your match. I can stay with my hole in the ground to remain unspoiled if you'd prefer to play your match and have us do our later...
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #99 on: May 13, 2014, 09:32:10 pm »
+1

Are there enough sets in the design challenge so that we both could use unique kingdoms?  Maybe have our match tomorrow and then the other match immediately after or on Thursday? 
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #100 on: May 13, 2014, 09:33:22 pm »
0

None that I know of.  Those players in the medal matches also need to coordinate with whoever was doing the kingdom builder competition, which was... who again?  My brain is going.

Me, greatexpectations, Mic Qsenoch, and shark_bait judged. We all know the finalists. Theory and Kirian have access to the finalists, it looks like, too. One of us should be present to reveal the kingdoms.

If the bronze match wants to play the kingdoms unspoiled, they probably should play at the same time. I believe this is how the f.DS championship went, since both matches used the kingdoms. There is such a thing as watching a recording later.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #101 on: May 13, 2014, 09:36:12 pm »
0

None that I know of.  Those players in the medal matches also need to coordinate with whoever was doing the kingdom builder competition, which was... who again?  My brain is going.

Me, greatexpectations, Mic Qsenoch, and shark_bait judged. We all know the finalists. Theory and Kirian have access to the finalists, it looks like, too. One of us should be present to reveal the kingdoms.

If the bronze match wants to play the kingdoms unspoiled, they probably should play at the same time. I believe this is how the f.DS championship went, since both matches used the kingdoms. There is such a thing as watching a recording later.

But no such thing as time-traveling chat rooms, alas.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #102 on: May 13, 2014, 09:37:10 pm »
+2

I'm fine with whatever people want, but I would hate to live-stream my match when people would be watching the finals. I can just record videos if that would be more appropriate.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #103 on: May 13, 2014, 09:40:13 pm »
0

None that I know of.  Those players in the medal matches also need to coordinate with whoever was doing the kingdom builder competition, which was... who again?  My brain is going.

Me, greatexpectations, Mic Qsenoch, and shark_bait judged. We all know the finalists. Theory and Kirian have access to the finalists, it looks like, too. One of us should be present to reveal the kingdoms.

If the bronze match wants to play the kingdoms unspoiled, they probably should play at the same time. I believe this is how the f.DS championship went, since both matches used the kingdoms. There is such a thing as watching a recording later.

But no such thing as time-traveling chat rooms, alas.

Pick a time to watch it pre-recorded. Live chat then.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #104 on: May 13, 2014, 10:07:15 pm »
+2

I'm fine with anything, but let's try to get something finalized tonight if we can.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #105 on: May 13, 2014, 10:15:14 pm »
0

I'm fine with anything, but let's try to get something finalized tonight if we can.
I think Finals could pick any time. 3rd place game depends on the finals, not the other way around. Right?
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #106 on: May 13, 2014, 10:37:56 pm »
+3

Our match will be at  8 pm Eastern 5 pm Pacific on Thursday. 
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #107 on: May 13, 2014, 10:43:31 pm »
0

Our match will be at  8 pm Eastern 5 pm Pacific on Thursday.

Awesome, I should be able to watch at least some of it!

On the other hand, I won't be available until next week to do the third place match in this case. I'm OK with staying unspoiled until then, since I won't have access to the internet this weekend anyways.
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #108 on: May 13, 2014, 10:50:02 pm »
0

Are there enough sets in the design challenge so that we both could use unique kingdoms?  Maybe have our match tomorrow and then the other match immediately after or on Thursday?

hmmmm. You wouldn't get to see how the other match played the kingdoms. That is an interesting aspect of this format.

This is a quick turnaround to agree upon another set of 8 to play. There weren't a ton of entrants, either. Having said that, there will definitely be good kingdoms left unplayed for various reasons. For instance, if the championship match is over in 5 games, there will be three kingdoms unplayed which we hoped would be played. Those could be bumped to the next match. There are also good kingdoms which were too similar to include both in the championship match and people who submitted multiple good kingdoms. Those could move to the other match.

We have 8 plus some honorable mentions lined up for the main event right now.
 
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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #109 on: May 13, 2014, 11:07:23 pm »
+4

Our match will be at  8 pm Eastern 5 pm Pacific on Thursday.

I will be streaming from http://www.twitch.tv/ragingduckd.  There's nothing up there now though.

I may or may not have audio and a way to record/stream the twitch chat itself.  Depends on where I physically am on Thursday.

Edit: More details on streamed and recorded videos below.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 08:40:15 pm by ragingduckd »
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Temron

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #110 on: May 13, 2014, 11:41:29 pm »
+1

Thank you for streaming AI! It is much appreciated. Good luck to both of you.
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2014, 07:04:29 am »
0

Our match will be at  8 pm Eastern 5 pm Pacific on Thursday.

Should this be posted more prominently in another thread, so people know about it?
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pst

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #112 on: May 14, 2014, 07:21:46 am »
+1

Our match will be at  8 pm Eastern 5 pm Pacific on Thursday.

Should this be posted more prominently in another thread, so people know about it?

Yeah, one thread about the third-place match and one thread about the final seems right, to facilitate for the discussion and analysis afterwards.
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Playoff Round Results and Discussion
« Reply #113 on: May 15, 2014, 05:47:08 pm »
+1

I'm fine with whatever people want, but I would hate to live-stream my match when people would be watching the finals. I can just record videos if that would be more appropriate.
I know this is super delayed but...

Don't cross the streams!

Couldn't resist.
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