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Author Topic: Analyze Another Newbie  (Read 4134 times)

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silvern

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Analyze Another Newbie
« on: April 16, 2014, 08:15:26 pm »
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So, I am a quite mediocre player, and, being a long time lurker on the forum, decided it was high time I post a game and get some advice.
http://andrewiannaccone.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140413/log.50c53406e4b0a380e35fb9b4.1397413317772.txt


Code: [Select]
Beggar, Warehouse, Watchtower, Bridge, Taxman, City, Duke, Ghost Ship, Highway, Jester

This one was beggar/duke (me) versus city stack (opponent). I'm not so sure if I chose the right strategy, or my opponent just played his badly. I open beggar/beggar, and end up getting 5 duchies, and 7 dukes. The game ends on estates piling out. My questions:
A. Was my strategy the way to go? and
B. If so, how did I misplay?
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KingZog3

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2014, 11:06:31 pm »
+1

I'm pretty sure a Warehouse, Highway, City, Bridge engine wins here. Beggar seems really slow. Not that it's bad for duke, but only Beggars gives a massive bloated deck. Also people tend to undervalue Duke. It really adds up. Also going pure City is really bad. He's buying $5 villages, and that gives you tons of time to pile up on Duchies.
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jsh357

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2014, 11:12:53 pm »
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I'm pretty sure a Warehouse, Highway, City, Bridge engine wins here. Beggar seems really slow. Not that it's bad for duke, but only Beggars gives a massive bloated deck. Also people tend to undervalue Duke. It really adds up. Also going pure City is really bad. He's buying $5 villages, and that gives you tons of time to pile up on Duchies.

Kingzog's strategy is what I'd go with here, but you need some form of draw, so it's Ghost Ship and Watchtowers probably.  The lack of trashing hurts a little, but Warehouse can help.  The engine should be able to overcome Dukes, especially if Beggar is the only enabler in use.  If I were playing Beggar/Duke, I'd probably mix in some other cards, mainly Warehouse. 

Edit: Nevermind about Jester; I think Watchtower and the competition at $5 kind of limit its value.  Not that it's a terrible option, mind you.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 11:27:56 pm by jsh357 »
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amalloy

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2014, 11:15:17 pm »
+1

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140416/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1397704305200.txt is a solo game I just played on this kingdom. It's not quite the same, because I didn't have a Duchy/Duke player helping me empty a pile, but it's definitely capable of beating Beggar/Duke, as I can buy all the Provinces and all the Estates on turn 16, which should be well beyond what Duchy/Duke can do.

I could have perhaps improved this a little bit by using my spare buys to buy+trash Beggar, which makes a pile emptier sooner, but that may be too dangerous, as I'd like to empty City as well, and you'll be emptying Duchy - the game might end before I'm ready to grab all the Provinces.

I'm sure a better player like SCSN could end it several turns sooner than I did, as well.

Edit: Ghost Ship would be a good addition in a two-player game: I overlooked it while playing solo. I'm not sure about Highway - it's much cheaper than Bridge+City and gives the same cost reduction, you don't get the +buy, and the +action is important for using those Watchtowers.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 11:25:03 pm by amalloy »
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hvb

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 11:33:11 pm »
+1

Welcome to the forum silvern. Thats a really nice board you choosed for your first post.  8)
Although Beggar/Duke is no power combo, its a decent synergy as it lets you hit 5 regularily and even more important you can start greening really, really early. In short. It works. But not on this board.
A Combo of City/Bridge/Ghost Ship/Highway and Warehouse is here the clear way to go. This Combo is not easy to pull off, but if you buy the right pieces in the right order, it is from some point on so fast that it beats duchy/beggar here easyly. You had luck that your opponent played that very poorly and you took the win. He made the mistake that he just bought one city a round to generate draw when the pile is empty. Thats far to slow. When you play that Combo you want no treasures (max. 1 opening Silver) and you really have to focus on playing 2-4 bridges a turn as fast as possible. Then you can pick up multiple pieces a round and you will be able to empty 1 pile really fast for City draw and end the game by buying multiple provinces a turn faster as the Beggar/Duke player can collect VP.
But how to manage playing multiple bridges a round? You need 2-3 early warehouses to connect your lets say 4 cities with your 2-3 bridges with playing 1-2 Ghost Ships (1-2 highways help as well at this point). From that point on you can buy multiple pieces a turn and empty cities really fast. Once done you will pull off the win faster as light.
Warehouses for sifting your oppenent missed completely, but his biggest mistake was not to buy ghost ships. Not only for his own draw. Its just once you can play the Ghost Ship regularily, later every round, the beggar/duke gets in deep trouble and stalls heavily. He just doesnt come to 5 often. So if you play the engine dont contest your opponent in duchies. Focus on letting your engine roll asap and dont buy money as he did.
This is a high skill board to put all those pieces without trashing fast together, but here is engine >> beggar/duke. Maybe you should play that board again in a bot game.

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dondon151

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2014, 11:58:19 pm »
+2

For engine: Taxman + Watchtower can trash Treasures without replacement.

EDIT: This has the side benefit of nailing opponent Coppers, which can be brutal.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 02:13:35 am by dondon151 »
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ConMan

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 01:13:06 am »
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I agree that the engine to go for is Warehouse+Bridge+City, and I'd probably get an early Watchtower for draw if it were convenient, but move onto Ghost Ships later on (especially once you empty a pile and Cities start weakening the WT draw). You could probably even aim to finish on Duchies/Dukes, if your opponent hasn't taken too many of them by the time you hit a megaturn. Replace Highway with, say, Market or Worker's Village and I'd say that D/D would be your aim.
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soulnet

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 11:35:16 am »
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Yes, constant Ghost Ship could easily kill the D/D slog. Anyway, if going for Beggar slog (here or in other board), I would open Beggar/Bridge. Bridge is great to double Beggars, and not bad later.

For the engine, I would use Watchtower as only draw, and load up on Warehouses like CRAZY. With Bridge, it should be not-so-slow to get lots of both, and then, the 3-piling is around the corner. It is an interesting board, the engine is good, but not overwhelming, so it needs to be played carefully.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2014, 11:45:05 am »
+1

I prefer the engine, but don't forget that constant Ghost Ship will load up the Beggars with Silver.
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soulnet

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2014, 11:51:28 am »
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I prefer the engine, but don't forget that constant Ghost Ship will load up the Beggars with Silver.

Is still hard to keep $5 in hand all the time with all that green and Coppers. You need two Silvers and Copper or (non-discarding) Beggar to buy a $5 with 3 cards.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2014, 12:04:46 pm »
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I prefer the engine, but don't forget that constant Ghost Ship will load up the Beggars with Silver.

Is still hard to keep $5 in hand all the time with all that green and Coppers. You need two Silvers and Copper or (non-discarding) Beggar to buy a $5 with 3 cards.

One of the Beggar Silvers is top-decked, which helps. And if they don't use the reaction, they can probably hit $5 by playing Beggar. I still think the attack is worthwhile. I'm just saying that the Beggar player isn't completely stalled by GS.
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silvern

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2014, 05:06:09 pm »
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I am blown away by the immediate and thoughtful responses--thank you! In retrospect, it does seem pretty obvious that the engine was the way to go. If you don't mind helping me on another game.....:
http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20140413/log.509ed425e4b0e72a0b03f118.1397427293844.txt



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Pearl Diver, Marauder, Scavenger, Cartographer, Counterfeit, Graverobber, Hunting Party, Mine, Peddler
So, this board has al kinds of good stuff--marauder, hunting party, peddler, counterfeit. I figrue that Hunting Party is the way to go, although Marauder provides a nice counter to it. I open Marauder/Silver, and go for hunting parties. I throw in counterfeit for trashing, but i realize that counterfeit/spoils is quite nice, and so never end up trashing anything. I end up winning, but I don't know if I really had a good idea of when to do anything, or what the exact best option to go with is at any given time. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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jsh357

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2014, 05:28:14 pm »
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Your strategy seems sound.  One thing I might add is buying Peddlers with Counterfeit +buy and then playing Graverobber to turn Peddlers to Provinces.  If you get a lot of junk, a few Cartographers will help smooth out your HP draw.  Graverobber can also turn Ruins into Scavenger/crossroads/Pearl Diver, all of which seem decent here.  All this is somewhat tactical, though.  The basic plan is what you stated.
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KingZog3

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Re: Analyze Another Newbie
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2014, 10:31:45 pm »
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Your strategy seems sound.  One thing I might add is buying Peddlers with Counterfeit +buy and then playing Graverobber to turn Peddlers to Provinces.  If you get a lot of junk, a few Cartographers will help smooth out your HP draw.  Graverobber can also turn Ruins into Scavenger/crossroads/Pearl Diver, all of which seem decent here.  All this is somewhat tactical, though.  The basic plan is what you stated.

Graverobber can't turn Ruins into Scavenger. It's $4.

Like jsh said, you got it pretty well. I didn't look at the entire log, but what you said in your post seems good. Cartographer might be nice to pick up once the Hunting Parties are gone. And Graverobber for sure, there's lots of targets here and it'll help to get extra VP at the end.
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