Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All

Author Topic: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards  (Read 18439 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3190
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2014, 10:54:11 pm »
0

Reactions should really either be on all the time or single use. It's the two simple ways to deal with them. As for the craziness, you're right. My suggestion then would be to make it a duration:

Misinformation - $2
Action - Duration
+1 Action
Now and next turn: +$1
-----
Once a turn while this is in play, you may have a card revealed from your hand or deck become the type of your choice.

you can lose track of the card (discard it, shuffle your deck, draw it again), so it can't stay the type forever. you have to limit it to the time it's revealed

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2014, 01:54:19 am »
0

After some thought, further revision.

Misinformation
Action
$2
+1 Action
+1 Card
Twice this turn while this is in play, you may treat a card revealed from your hand or deck as the type of your choice.

I think the card's strength comes from being able to use it twice in one turn (you might not get a revealing card next turn, and you might really want that fishing power), so removed the shenanigans with setting aside and all that. Since it's no longer a Duration, I think making it a cantrip is fine. Worst comes to worst, you have to count reveal-lies alongside counting actions. "Treat" is used instead of, say "turn," so that it only happens while the card is revealed. Still can't defend against attacks, but that's fine. If we really wanted that:

Misinformation
Action - Reaction
$2
+1 Action
+1 Card
Twice this turn while this is in play, you may treat a card revealed from your hand or deck as the type of your choice.
-----
Whenever you reveal a card from your hand or deck outside of your turn, you may reveal this Misinformation and set it aside. You may treat up to two revealed cards as the type of your choice. The cards may be treated as different types.

We kinda have that reveal ambiguity ugliness back, but I have a feeling it'd be necessary if we were gonna make it a reaction. Maybe it should be discard on reaction, instead of set aside?
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3190
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2014, 01:38:40 pm »
0

[...]

you have 3 vanilla bonuses, that takes up a lot of space on a card. I don't think the reaction fits on a card, in fact I'm almost entierly sure it does not.

this version:
Quote
Misinformation
Action
$2
+1 Action
+1 Card
Twice this turn while this is in play, you may treat a card revealed from your hand or deck as the type of your choice.
will fit, but i see a big powerlevel issue. +2$, +1 action, +1 card is an activated conspirator, a double peddler, or a grand market without the +buy. If i had to guess a valid price, I'd pick $7, and that's without the additional effect, which is quite good.

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2014, 01:50:03 pm »
0

The card costs $2; it doesn't give $2. Man, everything I do is ambiguous, it seems.
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

Rush_Clasic

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 297
  • never knows best
  • Respect: +80
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2014, 01:58:24 pm »
0

Don't put the cost right beneath the type line. That's where abilities go on your standard card. You aren't gonna fight human intuition there. I thought the same thing when I fist saw your cards.

you can lose track of the card (discard it, shuffle your deck, draw it again), so it can't stay the type forever. you have to limit it to the time it's revealed.

Right. Perhaps my wording is ambiguous to that. The card is convoluted, so any workable version is gonna be a wording mess.

"Once a turn while this is in play, you may have a card become the type of your choice for as long as it is revealed from your hand or deck."
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 02:00:22 pm by Rush_Clasic »
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3190
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2014, 02:03:00 pm »
0

The card costs $2; it doesn't give $2. Man, everything I do is ambiguous, it seems.
oh - apologies. you didn't write +2$, so my bad. I'm just used to the price being in the same line as the title of the card

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2014, 02:26:09 pm »
0

Cost doesn't go under card type. Gotcha.

As for making sure the effect only matters during the reveal, I think the use of "treat" works. The card isn't actually becoming a different type, so you can't use it in some shenanigans; you're just saying it is for the sake of a given effect. Similar idea to Rush_Classic's but less wordy, though maybe more ambiguous.

I'm not sure how you would resolve a forced play like Herald or Golem with the "new" interpretation (change type only during the "reveal phase"). Suppose I force play a Province with Herald+Misinformation. Since the card is only an Action card during the "reveal phase," it ceasing being an Action when the effect of the card actually resolves to play the card. In reality, it's probably not that bad (just put the card into play), but it's still a bit silly. Then again, this card is kinda doomed to be silly.
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2014, 05:30:20 pm »
0

In honor of me finishing my first two standardized tests, more cards! I have also updated the OP.

Unfair Treaty - $5
Action - Attack
Trash a card from your hand, and gain a card costing up to $2 more. Each other player trashes a card from their hand of equal or greater cost than the card you trashed (or reveals a hand with no such card, and trashes one with the highest cost), and gains a card costing up to $1 more. Each other player may not gain a copy of the card that they trashed.

Border Dispute - $7
Action – Attack
Each player reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing a Victory card. Place the revealed victory card in your hand. Each other player returns his revealed card to the Supply and gains a victory card at most $3 less. He then discards the other cards. For each card trashed, choose one: Trash a Victory card from your hand, and gain a Victory card no more than $3 more into your hand; or, gain an Estate. Discard the other cards.

Rezoning  - $3
Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal two Victory cards. Put those Victory cards into your hand and discard the other revealed cards. You may return any number of victory cards from your hand to the Supply, and gain a Victory card costing up to the sum of the costs of the cards returned.

Mobilization - $3
Action – Reaction
+2 Cards
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand and discard it. If you do, +2 Cards. You may choose to resolve this effect before or after the attack finishes resolving.

Standing Army - $5
Action – Attack – Reaction – Victory
This card is worth 1 VP for every two Attack cards in your deck, rounded down.
Discard a Treasure or Action card. Every other player discards down to two cards.
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, reveal this from your hand and discard it. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.

Propaganda - $4
Action – Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
-----
When another player plays an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand and discard it. If you do, you may treat that card as an Attack type card.
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand and set it aside. If you do, +1 Card. At the start of your next turn,+1 Action, and return this to your hand.
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2014, 06:01:48 pm »
0


Rezoning  - $3
Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal two Victory cards. Put those Victory cards into your hand and discard the other revealed cards. You may return any number of victory cards from your hand to the Supply, and gain a Victory card costing up to the sum of the costs of the cards returned.


I have no idea about the balance of this, but I like the concept. An interesting variant on Forge.

Quote
Mobilization - $3
Action – Reaction
+2 Cards
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand and discard it. If you do, +2 Cards. You may choose to resolve this effect before or after the attack finishes resolving.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of good reasons to give that choice. Resolving after an attack finishes should almost always be better. For most attacks, it wouldn't normally matter (various edge cases aside such as reshuffling to draw the 2 cards). For discard attacks, you would want to draw after. And the "resolve this later" clause isn't really well-defined in the game rules, you can't finish resolving a card during a later time like that. I would probably just use the Horse Traders "set aside and draw on next turn" wording.

Quote
Propaganda - $4
Action – Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
-----
When another player plays an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand and discard it. If you do, you may treat that card as an Attack type card.
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand and set it aside. If you do, +1 Card. At the start of your next turn,+1 Action, and return this to your hand.

"When another player plays an Action card" is a bad event to have a reaction to. It means that in games using this, players need to play their actions cards extra slowly, to give time in between each one to see if you are going to react to it or not.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2014, 11:17:28 pm »
0


Rezoning  - $3
Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal two Victory cards. Put those Victory cards into your hand and discard the other revealed cards. You may return any number of victory cards from your hand to the Supply, and gain a Victory card costing up to the sum of the costs of the cards returned.


I have no idea about the balance of this, but I like the concept. An interesting variant on Forge.

If you're curious why the cost is so low, it's because it probably won't swing your points too much. Three Estates into a Duchy and two Duchies into Province doesn't get you any extra VP. Four Estates or Duchy and two Estates into Province give a whopping two and one extra VP, respectively. Mostly a way to parse down the deck and, if you're ahead, end the game faster.

Quote
Quote
Mobilization - $3
Action – Reaction
+2 Cards
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand and discard it. If you do, +2 Cards. You may choose to resolve this effect before or after the attack finishes resolving.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of good reasons to give that choice. Resolving after an attack finishes should almost always be better. For most attacks, it wouldn't normally matter (various edge cases aside such as reshuffling to draw the 2 cards). For discard attacks, you would want to draw after. And the "resolve this later" clause isn't really well-defined in the game rules, you can't finish resolving a card during a later time like that. I would probably just use the Horse Traders "set aside and draw on next turn" wording.

The primary use of drawing before is to fish for a response like Moat, though that's probably borderline edge case, since you'd probably want a bunch of Mobilizations for that and need something like Moat. The other big use is drawing cards before you get something bad stuck at the top of your deck, if you don't have any draw in your hand, perhaps.

Quote
Quote
Propaganda - $4
Action – Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
-----
When another player plays an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand and discard it. If you do, you may treat that card as an Attack type card.
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand and set it aside. If you do, +1 Card. At the start of your next turn,+1 Action, and return this to your hand.

"When another player plays an Action card" is a bad event to have a reaction to. It means that in games using this, players need to play their actions cards extra slowly, to give time in between each one to see if you are going to react to it or not.

I remember reading that. Forgot about that. That said, I don't really think that there would be that much extra time spent, since using the draw effect on the first action card played and the last is pretty much the same, bar discard attacks. I will try to think of a way to capture the spirit of the card (letting you "overreact" to your opponent) without "react to any action card" or similar.
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2014, 02:12:42 am »
0

It's been a long while, but just theory-ed up a card.

Auction House - $5
Action
Whenever you play an Action card, draw a card.

And the curious variant.

Auction House - $7
Action
+1 Action
Whenever you play an Action card, draw a card.

I'll confess, I haven't put quite as much thought into these. Just something I thought up.
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

Marcory

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 715
  • Respect: +1203
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2014, 08:39:59 am »
0

You need to add, 'while this is in play', otherwise it doesn't work at all.

As it is, though, this is a 'rich get richer' card. If you're already playing 3-4 actions a turn, you've probably got a decent enough engine that you don't need this. And if you aren't playing that many actions, this isn't that good (esp. the $5 version).
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12848
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2014, 09:42:10 am »
+1

You need to add, 'while this is in play', otherwise it doesn't work at all.
Actually, it works. In fact, the magician himself would probably be surprised by the effectiveness.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2015, 07:43:45 pm »
0

Man, this thread is old. But I have new card ideas, so I might as well make use of it, right? These new cards are Curse-centric, but if you want to make fun of critique my older cards, be my guest.

False Prophet - $4
Action
Reveal your hand. +$3 for each Curse revealed.
Could a Curse-centric deck work? I have no idea, but this is a theoretical start. The big stink with a Curse-centric deck is that Curses already stink AND clog your deck, so you better be getting something out of them.

Pessimism - $2
Action
+2 Actions
You may treat Curse cards as Victory type cards and treat Victory type cards as Curse cards this turn.
...There's gotta be use for this somehow... right?

Blood Money - $4
Treasure
The player to your left may place this card on the top of his deck. If he does, +$4. Otherwise, +$2.
In case the wording is unclear, the effect is mandatory; you cannot refuse to give the other player the chance to take the card. The card goes on top to prevent the game from accelerating into late game too fast, and because there are more ways to force discards than mills from top of the deck (I think). The cost is $4 is to prevent the classic double Blood Money opener into double gambit accepted into Turn 3 Provence.

Deal with the Devil - $1
Victory
At the end of the game, if you have the most Curses in your deck, +4 VP for every Victory type card. Otherwise, +0 VP.
Originally, the card was gonna give +VP per Curse, but then I realized that the player who got the first curse would probably be impossible to catch, outside of some super-Buy strat gambit where you  use an unclogged deck to buy tons of Curses faster than the Curse-clogged deck can.
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

XerxesPraelor

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1069
  • Respect: +364
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2015, 09:57:46 pm »
+1

False Prophet is basically a hard counter to cursers. It does need to line up properly, so it's not completely one but that means it might not be good enough to incentivize buying curses.

Pessimism is the sort of card that would work great in a CCG, but not so much in Dominion, because the range of cards that it has any effect on is pretty small, so most of the time it's just a necropolis for $2, which will disappoint people when there's nothing in the kingdom to combo with it.

Blood Money is political, but potentially interesting in a two-player game. It's pretty similar to silver though, as the times when you would want to top deck it are pretty limited. (getting a silver next turn compared to the difference between copper and gold isn't much)

Deal with the Devil is interesting, but it turns almost every game into a race to see who can get curses fastest, as just 4 of them are worth 64 victory points if they fire.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 10:01:00 pm by XerxesPraelor »
Logged

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2015, 10:38:57 pm »
0

False Prophet is basically a hard counter to cursers. It does need to line up properly, so it's not completely one but that means it might not be good enough to incentivize buying curses.

Well, in theory, in order to make an effective False Prophet deck, you only need three Curses (four if you're shooting for Colonies), False Prophet (duh), and an effective enough draw engine. It's relatively cheap, since the core parts cost only $4 and $0. The main weakness is that Curses naturally set you back in points and are (more) dead in hand than some combo pieces. But it might work.

Pessimism is the sort of card that would work great in a CCG, but not so much in Dominion, because the range of cards that it has any effect on is pretty small, so most of the time it's just a necropolis for $2, which will disappoint people when there's nothing in the kingdom to combo with it.

Yeah, I looked through the types of cards that could interact with Pessimism, and it's not a very extensive list. I tried something similar with Misinformation, but... interactions are finicky things.

Blood Money is political, but potentially interesting in a two-player game. It's pretty similar to silver though, as the times when you would want to top deck it are pretty limited. (getting a silver next turn compared to the difference between copper and gold isn't much)

What if Blood Money put itself into the hand instead of on the top of the deck? Would that be more meaningful?

Deal with the Devil is interesting, but it turns almost every game into a race to see who can get curses fastest, as just 4 of them are worth 64 victory points if they fire.

...You know, I totally forgot that Deal with the Devil would proc on itself. Maybe I should make it all Victory cards not named Deal with the Devil.
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2015, 01:21:07 am »
0

Some monetary manipulation with these cards.

Hidden Transaction - $5
Action
+1 Buy
Reduce your second purchase by the number of remaining Buys + 1.
Finally, those extra buys can be put to use. It's rare one stacks buys intentionally, though. In theory, one could open with a Copper (or Curse, if you're into that) purchase and then buy on the cheap... if you're okay with clogging your deck a wee bit.

Bullion - $4
Action
You may treat any played Treasure card’s value as its cost as opposed to its stated card text. For each card, at the end of your turn, when you would discard that Treasure card, trash it instead.
Some curious anti-synergy with Copper. If you use this card to trash Coppers, you get no money. Stinks.

Debasement - $3
Action
Reduce the cost of all Treasure cards by $1, to a minimum of $0. Increase the cost of all other card types by $1. You may buy one Treasure card without a Buy cost.
I mean, if you wanna stack Debasements and then buy six Golds for free... you go right ahead. I suppose you could open with it, hope for a collision with four Coppers and then get two Silvers instead of one?
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1400
  • Respect: +1705
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2015, 03:22:59 am »
0

Bullion - $4
Action
You may treat any played Treasure card’s value as its cost as opposed to its stated card text. For each card, at the end of your turn, when you would discard that Treasure card, trash it instead.
Some curious anti-synergy with Copper. If you use this card to trash Coppers, you get no money. Stinks.
Alternatively, why not word it like a cross between Salvager and Forge?

Trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. For each card trashed this way, +[Coins] equal to its cost.

It works the same for all the basic treasures, although I admit it does have a different effect for most of the special ones (particularly if they care about cards in play, have an effect on being played or being in play, or have a Potion cost). That said, either way I'd say this is a bit too powerful for $4.
Logged

GeeJo

  • Coppersmith
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
  • Respect: +87
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2015, 12:15:55 pm »
+1


Hidden Transaction - $5
Action
+1 Buy
Reduce your second purchase by the number of remaining Buys + 1.
Finally, those extra buys can be put to use. It's rare one stacks buys intentionally, though. In theory, one could open with a Copper (or Curse, if you're into that) purchase and then buy on the cheap... if you're okay with clogging your deck a wee bit.

The intention of the card is crystal clear, but it's a tough effect to word properly within the rules in a way that for example a computer would understand. By the time a card is bought, it's already paid for. And temporarily reducing the cost after your first buy but before the third introduces weird effects with things like Messenger. Also, "Hidden Transaction" would be the longest card name in the game, requiring a smaller font on the title line. I'd go with something simpler and more emotive like




Bullion - $4
Action
You may treat any played Treasure card’s value as its cost as opposed to its stated card text. For each card, at the end of your turn, when you would discard that Treasure card, trash it instead.
Some curious anti-synergy with Copper. If you use this card to trash Coppers, you get no money. Stinks.

In practical terms and to avoid confusion with treasures like Coin of the Realm (which is set aside and lost-track-of before the trashing) and Counterfeit (where treasures values are fiddled with twice), as well as avoiding a reword to take into account treasures already played through Storyteller/Black Market, I'd go with ConMan's wording. I'm not sure whether it's stronger or weaker than Salvager (since Salvager can trash non-treasures, but only one, and comes with an extra buy). $4 isn't a bad place to start playtesting it, but I'd definitely keep an eye on it.




Debasement - $3
Action
Reduce the cost of all Treasure cards by $1, to a minimum of $0. Increase the cost of all other card types by $1. You may buy one Treasure card without a Buy cost.
I mean, if you wanna stack Debasements and then buy six Golds for free... you go right ahead. I suppose you could open with it, hope for a collision with four Coppers and then get two Silvers instead of one?

With this wording, Harem, Relic, Fool's Gold, and Coin of the Realm don't change in price, as their "treasure reduction" is offset by the extra cost of their other type. This doesn't seem intended, so maybe change the wording to



Also, I have no idea what kind of art would suit Debasement (maybe just copy Counterfeit's art?), so I just went with the spare Bribe image I had left over.
Logged

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1832
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1886
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2015, 12:38:10 pm »
+1


Hidden Transaction - $5
Action
+1 Buy
Reduce your second purchase by the number of remaining Buys + 1.
Finally, those extra buys can be put to use. It's rare one stacks buys intentionally, though. In theory, one could open with a Copper (or Curse, if you're into that) purchase and then buy on the cheap... if you're okay with clogging your deck a wee bit.

The intention of the card is crystal clear, but it's a tough effect to word properly within the rules in a way that for example a computer would understand. By the time a card is bought, it's already paid for. And temporarily reducing the cost after your first buy but before the third introduces weird effects with things like Messenger. Also, "Hidden Transaction" would be the longest card name in the game, requiring a smaller font on the title line. I'd go with something simpler and more emotive like



After the first time you buy a card this turn, all cards cost $1 less per Buy you have remaining.





The first time you buy a Treasure this turn, +1 Buy.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 12:39:32 pm by Drab Emordnilap »
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2015, 12:43:54 pm »
0

After the first time you buy a card this turn, all cards cost $1 less per Buy you have remaining.

That's not the same.  It is way, way stronger.
Logged

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1832
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1886
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2015, 01:03:10 pm »
+4

After the first time you buy a card this turn, all cards cost $1 less per Buy you have remaining.

That's not the same.  It is way, way stronger.

How is it different? Oh, because it affects your 3rd and upward Buy. I get it.

I then submit:

"The first time you buy a card this turn, +$1 per Buy remaining."

I understand this lets you split up the "discount", but it also means you can avoid saying "for the purposes of", which is the scariest phrase I've heard today.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 01:04:35 pm by Drab Emordnilap »
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2015, 03:34:22 pm »
0


I understand this lets you split up the "discount", but it also means you can avoid saying "for the purposes of", which is the scariest phrase I've heard today.

Even scarier than "pure victory card!"  ;)
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

MetaSkipper

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Objection!
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2015, 06:20:24 pm »
0

Well, I must thank you all for the feedback. (And the card images! How you spoil me so.) On the point of Hidden Transaction/Bribe, I will say it is an important point that the second transaction and only the second transaction get reduced. Also, the reduction really should be 1 + number of remaining buys, otherwise one copy does nothing by itself. I will think about that when I go back and finalize my wording. Also, the "free Treasure" clause of Debasement stacks for each copy you play in a turn.

I'm about to scare some people with the card text of these next cards. There's a vague theme of Victory cards/points here. There's also some older cards of mine I'd like to take another look at.

Sprawl - $6
Victory
4 VP
If the game ends due to three cleared piles, 7 VP instead.
I'm not sure if there's a difference between "7 VP instead" and "+3 VP," at least practically, but feel free to disprove me.

Hidden Claim - $5
Action – Duration
Until the start of your next turn, whenever another player gains a Victory Card worth $8 or more, gain +2 VP.
Hidden Claim - $4
Action – Duration
Until the start of your next turn, whenever another player gains a Victory Card worth $8 or more, gain an Estate.
The +VP card is slightly more expensive because it doesn't clog your deck. It won't help you come back, but if you're neck and neck, might give you an edge or force your opponent to cede Province tempo.

Unified Front - $6
Action
If you have no cards remaining in your deck or discard pile, +3 VP.
Put that over-efficient draw engine to use!

Rezoning – $3
Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal two Victory cards. Put those Victory cards into your hand and discard the other revealed cards. You may return any number of victory cards from your hand to the Supply, and gain a Victory card costing up to the sum of the costs of the cards returned.
An older card. Main purpose is to parse down a deck. You'll get marginal gains if you combine Estates into Duchies and some other cases.

Standing Army – $6
Action – Attack – Reaction – Victory
This card is worth 1 VP for every two Attack cards in your deck, rounded down.
Discard a Treasure or Action card. Every other player discards down to two cards.
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, reveal this from your hand and discard it. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.
Another old card. If you get all ten Standing Armies, you get a not-too-shabby 50 VP. If you get only nine, though, you're left with the much less impressive 36.

Border Dispute - $7
Action – Attack
Each player reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing a Victory card. Place the revealed victory card in your hand. Each other player returns his revealed card to the Supply and gains a victory card that costs at most $3 less. He then discards the other cards. For each card returned to the supply, choose one: Trash a Victory card from your hand, and gain a Victory card that costs no more than $3 more into your hand; or, gain an Estate. Discard the other cards.
Okay. Calm down. It is rather complex, but it's not as complex as the card text would have you believe. The following is the rough order of operations.
  • All players reveal cards until they reveal a Victory card.
  • All other players return their revealed Victory Card to the supply, and gain a Victory card that cannot cost more than $3 less than the returned card.
  • You add the revealed victory card to your hand. For each card the other players have returned, you may Trash a Vicory card from your hand and gain into your hand a Victory card that cannot cost more than $3 more OR gain an Estate.
  • Discard all the other revealed cards.
...Okay, the wording needs work. A lot of work.
Logged
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
[literally just pineapples]

I make cards. Sometimes they're passable.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: MetaSkipper's Hopefully Passble Cards
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2015, 07:20:03 pm »
0

Sprawl -- I would say, "If the Province pile is not empty".  With some player counts, the game ends on 4 piles instead of 3.  This doesn't account for Colony, but there are many official cards that just look at Province.

Hidden Claim -- "Worth" is used for treasure value.  You want to use the word "cost".  The $5 version is significantly stronger than the $4 version (which is more like a self-attack than a beneficial card).  Note that this card isn't actually a Duration because there's nothing to keep it in play until your next turn.

As it is, I don't think it's a good design.  If no other player buys a Province or Colony while it's in play, then the card was entirely useless, a waste of an action.  But if you get 3+ in play (or use KC, because you didn't use "while in play" wording), it's legitimately bad for players to buy a Province because you'll get the same VP or more without adding a junk card to your deck!  It's thus both extremely weak yet (potentially) overbearing and oppressive.

Unified Front -- This is a win-more card that is basically useless in any other context.  If I already have an over-drawing engine, I probably don't need this card to win.  That said, there's another bad use case -- a trashed-down deck that does nothing but play this card.  Let's both trash down to KC-KC-UF-UF-Chapel and make 18 points every turn while doing nothing else.

Rezoning -- Is there a particular reason you are returning cards to the supply instead of just trashing them?  It's OK either way.  I suggest the following though: "...and gain a Victory card costing up to $1 more than the total cost of the trashed/returned cards".  Now you can do Estate+Estate=Duchy or Estate+Duchy=Province for a nice net gain.  Duchy+Duchy=Colony is also pretty interesting, with net 4VP gain.  Up to $2 more would enable some other tricks with alt VP.

Standing Army -- The attack is way too powerful, even with the initial discard requirement.  The VP is no good either.  If you read the secret history for Intrigue, you'll see that Duke started out as a self-counting card.  The problem is that it's either too good if you get a lot of them or too weak if you don't get enough.  The solution was to count a different card.

Border Dispute -- As written, you just steal everybody else's VP cards by putting them into your hand.  What you actually intend is probably too powerful.  Each play is very easily a 4-6+ point swing, even more with more players.  It would also be really slow to resolve and I am not sure the text even fits on a card.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All
 

Page created in 0.95 seconds with 21 queries.