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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards  (Read 112866 times)

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KingZog3

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #75 on: April 15, 2014, 12:44:39 pm »
+9

It trashes two, but gives you a card in return that sometimes you don't want. Plus, it's terminal.
That's pretty much what I said. Sometimes you want the card.

A summary of Dominion. "Sometimes"
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silverspawn

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #76 on: April 15, 2014, 02:35:56 pm »
0

trash two cards from your hand, +2$, gain a silver is really good early on, good enough to buy it turn 3 or 4

LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2014, 02:37:54 pm »
+4

It trashes two, but gives you a card in return that sometimes you don't want. Plus, it's terminal.

Right, sure. But what I'm saying is that when you have access to a card that gives you Treasures, often you can still build an engine around that fact. "I don't want to buy Silver" is way more common than "I don't want Silver". And "I don't want Silver" is way less common than a lot of players think. Unless you care about your actual Action density (due to Herald, Scrying Pool, etc.), you can take advantage of the fact that Treasures are just being handed to you by using all your buys on engine components and eventually VP without having to worry about your economy.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 05:37:12 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2014, 06:19:47 pm »
0

Trading Post is great as long as you can reliably increase your hand size and there isn't a better source of Coins than Treasure. The key is using the Silvers you get as your main/only source of income and spending all your buys on engine pieces. It's also a very specialized Torturer counter.

this seems right on to me.

TP has gone way down in my estimation along with silver.  When you have reliable draw and need the $$, TP is great.  It's not that hot in engines and it's rather poor in terminal-draw big money.  It's okay in slogs, but because you see it so rarely there it doesn't shine.
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serakfalcon

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2014, 09:04:20 pm »
0

Counting House is good at least sometimes. Harvest is just pretty much never worth getting, even though it's less bad in the situations where Counting House is bad.

Harvest as the only source of money with doubletac or scrying pool has to be more common than the times you'll need to have lots of copper...
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2014, 11:25:20 pm »
+1

Counting House is good at least sometimes. Harvest is just pretty much never worth getting, even though it's less bad in the situations where Counting House is bad.

Harvest as the only source of money with doubletac or scrying pool has to be more common than the times you'll need to have lots of copper...

That's backwards, though. Counting House itself can be the reason you flood your deck with Copper, because the amount of Coins it can produce is effectively unbounded. Harvest can only ever give you $4.

I feel like too often we judge cards based on how good they are in the deck we already want to build instead of how good they can be if we build a deck to accommodate them.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 11:31:24 pm by LastFootnote »
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #81 on: April 16, 2014, 01:58:42 am »
+1

I feel like too often we judge cards based on how good they are in the deck we already want to build instead of how good they can be if we build a deck to accommodate them.
I think it's a bad idea to judge cards based on how good they are in the deck that's built around them. Counting House might be an awesome card in a deck full of Copper, but the deck full of Copper still sucks even if it has Counting House.
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c4master

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #82 on: April 16, 2014, 03:22:45 am »
0

I feel like too often we judge cards based on how good they are in the deck we already want to build instead of how good they can be if we build a deck to accommodate them.
I think it's a bad idea to judge cards based on how good they are in the deck that's built around them. Counting House might be an awesome card in a deck full of Copper, but the deck full of Copper still sucks even if it has Counting House.
Now you're doing it wrong.
What LastFootnote meant, is more like this:
We should judge a card on how strong a deck can be, which is based around that card rather than judging a card on how good it is in a deck, we ususally want to build. And a deck based around counting house could be very strong, even though it needs some good enablers (Warehouse/Village/Storeroom or Wandering Minstrel/+buy might do this).
If you're going for a fairgrounds deck, on the other hand, if there are villages and stuff, Harvest could also be nice.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #83 on: April 16, 2014, 04:39:10 am »
0

If you're going for a fairgrounds deck, on the other hand, if there are villages and stuff, Harvest could also be nice.
The only reason why you want Harvest in a Fairgrounds deck is that it's an unique card that you don't have yet and the other cards are even less useful for you. You're planning to hit $6, you don't need that much money, so you'd rather want a card that does something in addition to giving you some money (or splits that money between two turns).

And I think we're already judging cards based on how powerful strategies they enable. Definitely Rebuild is strong even in a normal deck, but it wouldn't be as overpowered as it is if nobody ever built a deck specifically around it, and Poor House is a great example of a card which is useless at best and a nuisance at worst in a regular deck but makes a strategy based around it very good when it's possible - and it's higher than Vagrant, which you just pretty much want every time.
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serakfalcon

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #84 on: April 16, 2014, 05:24:21 am »
+1

Counting House is good at least sometimes. Harvest is just pretty much never worth getting, even though it's less bad in the situations where Counting House is bad.

Harvest as the only source of money with doubletac or scrying pool has to be more common than the times you'll need to have lots of copper...

That's backwards, though. Counting House itself can be the reason you flood your deck with Copper, because the amount of Coins it can produce is effectively unbounded. Harvest can only ever give you $4.

I feel like too often we judge cards based on how good they are in the deck we already want to build instead of how good they can be if we build a deck to accommodate them.

And the more coppers you have in your deck, the less often you see Counting House, not to mention lowering the chance that you'll get Counting House in hand with something that gives +buy and can play them both. I love Counting House decks. They are fun! They are also incredibly rare, and most often don't work, or are slower than some other crazy strategy.

Don't get me wrong, harvest is a crappy card, but it can be useful as a support card in action-heavy decks with some sort of mega-drawing going on so I guess it deserves some love.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #85 on: April 16, 2014, 11:16:58 am »
0

Call me crazy, but I've noticed that Counting House works well with Scavenger. If you have both in hand with a village, then you can draw all your Coppers. If you have Scavenger, a village, and another can trip, then you can still draw all your Coppers. Sometimes, you might have loaded up on villages and cantrips in a game with weak trashing.
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #86 on: April 16, 2014, 11:18:06 am »
+2

Call me crazy, but I've noticed that Counting House works well with Scavenger.

You're crazy! :D
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Alexmf

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #87 on: April 16, 2014, 01:53:24 pm »
0

Call me crazy, but I've noticed that Counting House works well with Scavenger. If you have both in hand with a village, then you can draw all your Coppers. If you have Scavenger, a village, and another can trip, then you can still draw all your Coppers. Sometimes, you might have loaded up on villages and cantrips in a game with weak trashing.

I used this strategy once (with a Village and Market Square). It was'nt too great, but decent, and fun  ;D
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KingZog3

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #88 on: April 16, 2014, 02:02:44 pm »
0

Warehouse, Beggar, Counting House. It's quite potent as a strategy. Harvest, anything is not potent ever.
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #89 on: April 16, 2014, 02:14:34 pm »
0

Warehouse, Beggar, Counting House. It's quite potent as a strategy. Harvest, anything is not potent ever.

Harvest can occasionally be potent when throned. But I agree that Counting House is the better card.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2014, 02:20:33 pm »
0

Call me crazy, but I've noticed that Counting House works well with Scavenger. If you have both in hand with a village, then you can draw all your Coppers. If you have Scavenger, a village, and another can trip, then you can still draw all your Coppers. Sometimes, you might have loaded up on villages and cantrips in a game with weak trashing.

I used this strategy once (with a Village and Market Square). It was'nt too great, but decent, and fun  ;D
As a main strategy, I don't know. It was something I just noticed mid-game in a slog of sorts where I wanted to spike Provinces. It was a "Hey, this isn't a 9-card kingdom" moment.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #91 on: April 16, 2014, 02:21:54 pm »
+2

It hurts to see a card you feel is way underrated (in this case Mint) only to discover you yourself ranked it at more or less that position.
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flies

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2014, 03:25:03 pm »
0

Counting House is good at least sometimes. Harvest is just pretty much never worth getting, even though it's less bad in the situations where Counting House is bad.

Harvest as the only source of money with doubletac or scrying pool has to be more common than the times you'll need to have lots of copper...
Harvest is unreliable for this purpose since decks like that tend to draw themselves.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2014, 04:07:26 pm »
0

Counting House is good at least sometimes. Harvest is just pretty much never worth getting, even though it's less bad in the situations where Counting House is bad.

Harvest as the only source of money with doubletac or scrying pool has to be more common than the times you'll need to have lots of copper...
Harvest is unreliable for this purpose since decks like that tend to draw themselves.
You also have to make sure you draw the second Tac in your hand before you can waste actions generating money with Harvest.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #94 on: April 17, 2014, 06:24:31 pm »
+2

Robz888

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #95 on: April 17, 2014, 06:44:07 pm »
0

Part 3

Well, that's just a bunch of middling cards. All fine, I say.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 3/6)
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2014, 08:43:13 pm »
+3

I didn't do the rankings for 5, but I certainly think Cartographer is under-rated.  Phenomenal in slogs by discarding junk.  Lubricating engines to be more reliable.  Enabling top-deck "wishing" cards.  Cartographer can find a place in almost all decks.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 3/6)
« Reply #97 on: April 17, 2014, 09:28:43 pm »
0

I would rank Council Room higher, at least above Merchant Guild.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 3/6)
« Reply #98 on: April 17, 2014, 10:26:50 pm »
0

I would rank Council Room higher, at least above Merchant Guild.

I'm not sure. Merchant Guild isn't as bad as some people think. Council has that hefty penalty, and without a discard attack it's a heavy price to pay.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: $5 cards (Part 3/6)
« Reply #99 on: April 17, 2014, 11:26:21 pm »
0

Cartographer is the only major disagreement I have with part 3. It's too low. If your opponent gets a bunch of them, you can forget all hope of your opponent stalling.

Cartographers get you what you set up for every turn, whether that's 1 Province for BM, seeing your entire deck for engines, or getting to that potion in a Vineyards slog.
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