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Author Topic: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread  (Read 21032 times)

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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2014, 07:54:30 am »
0

game 5:
I think Duchy Duke is the clear way to go. I really like Smugglers for that, i even think it's a must buy in the mirror. Open Smugglers/Courtyard and try to rush the Duchies that way maybe? I feel like Remake is a little too slow for a Duchy Duke mirror.

game 6:
 I feel like your were both misplaying this one. Seriously Buying Gold + Curse over Silver when you dont plan to get rid of the curse? That's like Buying a Silver  and a Copper and getting a negative VP token on top.
I would have gone into Explorer BM right away skipping all other actions and start picking up Mandarins at good opportunities in the mid- and late-game. Maybe Remake BM is about as strong as Explorer BM i think those two strategies are pretty close.

On game 5, I don't think Smugglers/Courtyard is consistent enough to get $5 on its own, but it might be a good reply to Storeroom. In the ideal situation, Smugglers gives you a Duchy without costing you a Duchy, and I feel like that's not going to happen often enough. But I could be wrong on this, I was acting more off me going Smugglers to win Duchy split before and having it backfire horribly. I also wasn't sure if Psyduck was going for Duchy/Duke.

On game 6, I still think the first embargoed gold is good. It's only one Curse, it's not too bad, and it's absolutely not like Silver + Copper because having a Gold lets you hit high value cards more easily. Usually, 1 Gold > 2 Silvers in BM, in that you buy a Gold on $6 and 2 buys instead of 2 silvers, so Gold + Curse should beat Silver + Copper. If you mean, buy an Explorer or Mandarin instead, then that's a valid point. I think that I shouldn't have bought Nomad Camp, since it was basically a terminal silver for no reason.

Most of the Mandarin buys I make are for the topdeck. If I don't think the topdeck is worth it, then I bought Explorer. So for instance, my T4 buy was Mandarin because I'd seen all my Estates, so I knew that I would get a Gold by using the topdeck.

well first of all:
You don't go for Smugglers to get double Duchy turns. At least not early.
Your get the Smugglers because your opponent will hit 5 very often, so Smugglers play gives you a Duchy and you can still usually buy like a Silver on the same turn. And even when you are unlucky and your opponent didn't get a Duchy on your smugglers turn that is usually a turn where you get double silver instead of his one. (or maybe silver/storeroom which at that point should also totally be worth it). And courtyard is pretty good for Duchy/Duke aswell as you can often split your money between your hand exactly like you want so you can arrange $5 on nearly every hand quite easily once you got some silvers. The smugglers will probably not get you ahead on the Duchy split but it certainly usually doesn't put you behind on it. And with the extra cards (Silvers, maybe another CY, or a storeroom ) you have at that time compared to your opponent you have a really big advantage in the race to the Dukes.

The T4 Mandarin would not be a mistake if you didn't already have Nomad Camp as a terminal i feel.
Buying a Mandarin so early to ensure a Gold for the next turn is something you only want to do if you also really want a Mandarin in your deck. So i think a deck with 2 Mandarins +another(madarin/explorer) and only treasures beside that is pretty good. But as you will probably get a few Mandarins in the mid game at good opportunities anyway you usually don't already want 2 or 3 terminals that early.

yes you are right that Gold + ruined village is better than Silver+ copper it adds the same money density but the higher diversity is slightly better for getting to provinces at the time you need it. But only slightly! The chances of this being the difference between a ($8  +  $3 turn) and a ($7 + $4 turn) are lower than the chances of cases where it doesn't matter or even is better the other way round like (6/4) instead of (5/5). I's an advantage but a marginal one. The advantage of Silver over Silver+ Copper is already a bigger one. And the one minus vp is also a bigger deal than that.

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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2014, 09:03:20 am »
+2

"He who begins, wins!"

TheMirrorMan - Breezy : 3 - 3

Yeah it is over. The last straw has been pulled. And it ended with an acceptable result for both Breezy as myself - we agreed on that. We are both around the same level, so no more fair than this. We weren't that focussed anymore either - nothing at stake for us.



Game 1 : "Stonehenge" - Breezy begins + wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1397039409623.txt



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Pearl Diver, Vagrant, Cutpurse, Gardens, Spy, Cultist, Market, Rogue, Harem
Probably the most interesting game of the lot.

Of course you see the quarrel - Cultist vs. Gardens. We both open Silver/cutpurse in order to get as quickly to $5 as possible. Then a surprise : his turn 3 is a Market! Ok that signals going for Gardens. Fine, I don't believe in it and take a cultist. And maybe I can snatch a few Gardens myself, that should work, no ?

I get snowballed quite quickly - he stocks up on Markets, picks up the gardens on the way and adds some extra coppers/estates to get his card count up. I mix up my strategies way too much (at one point I even DON'T play my cultist). I lose badly.

Now the only thing I'm wondering here is ... Is cultist really that bad against gardens or did I misplay this horribly? Comments welcome.



Game 2 : "Fool me once ..." - TheMirrorMan begins + wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1397039905001.txt



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Fool's Gold, Lighthouse, Apothecary, Oracle, Salvager, Smithy, Bandit Camp, Butcher, Cartographer, Trading Post
Sometimes 3/4 or 4/3 is important to not show too much strategy. I'm starting with $4, buy Salvager. He starts with $3 and buys silver. Then $3, I buy FG ... Breezy realizes, takes a Salvager, but is trailing all the way. First player, not much to say here. He tries to do some Shenanigans with FG > Gold, then salvage the gold ... But my 6 FG vs. his 4 is just too much.



Game 3 : "Trash and swap and trash and swap ..." - TheMirrorMan begins + wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1397040691186.txt



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Embargo, Herbalist, Wishing Well, Workshop, Pirate Ship, Quarry, Cache, Haggler, Junk Dealer, Minion
Again, not much to say here, it's a minion board, and I'm first. Bit surprised however, I open Silver/Quarry, he opens WW/Quarry. Okay, yeah, It's more interesting if you want to get your Minions out of the deck. But in essence, it's no more than a Silver here. So I like my opening better. And you REALLY want those Minions.

Well, it's pick up the junk dealer first, then the minions (win it 6 to 4) and then swap and trash. The extra 2 minions pay off.

Interesting to see that in the end Breezy had 2 gold in his deck and I had ONE copper :)



Game 4 : "Welcome to the jungle" : Breezy begins + wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1397041483837.txt



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Great Hall, Menagerie, Oracle, Armory, Monument, Talisman, Trader, City, Grand Market, Forge
Not the most interesting board. No real engine (City + Oracle ?), No early money actions except Monument, no early trashing. Hmmm.

We both open Monument, yet he takes a menagerie, I take a silver. I don't understand what he's doing here, but it seems to work out in the end. He picks up all sorts of cards : armory, Great Hall, forge, more monuments ... I get to forge quicker, but then probably do too much senseless forging (a lot of those GMs could have been golds ...). He pops over me in the last turn with 3 points.



Game 5 : Going in circles - TheMirrorMan begins + wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1397042226459.txt



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Great Hall, Masquerade, Trade Route, Caravan, Conspirator, Mining Village, Trader, Baker, Cultist
Baker on the board - coin token in. It's a basic, but trappy board. Cultist is possible, but not viable with both chapel and masquerade on the board I think. The conspirator is screaming for an engine. We both decide not to use the cointoken, I open Caravan/Masq, he opens Caravan/Chapel.

I believe chapel is a trap because of two reasons :

1) you're not going to get quickly enough to the $4 caravans/conspirators
2) Masquerade counters it - trash down too much, you can hand over your better cards to me ...

Hence my decision. I think the log shows that my assessment was correct.



Game 6 : "Let's go dip in the Steward's Horse Traders Market Square Pool" - Breezy begins, Breezy wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140410/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1397125754361.txt



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Pearl Diver, Scrying Pool, Market Square, Steward, Cutpurse, Horse Traders, Smithy, Witch, Expand
Sorry, my inspiration ran dry. The trashing/actions (Market Square) are central here. Conclusion for both of us : Potion + Steward. Problem is I'm getting Potion + 2 coins + Steward a few times, which really is not what you want. Can't trash stuff well enough, so I stock up on SPs. I get a Witch inbetween which is really a bad call, given the trashing possibilities.
However, Breezy pulls out a nice one which I didn't understand in the beginning. He buys a few horse traders. Well, me attacking him with his SP causes two things :

1) I most probably put back a bad card
2) He gets that bad card in hand but he doesn't mind - he can probably trash it with SP/Steward.

I feel outplayed in this match and rightfully so. Nice work Breezy.



Well it's over. I'm happy with my 3,5/7 (compared to 2/7 in GokoDom II). Thank you Kirian for organizing!!!
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Psyduck

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2014, 04:21:22 pm »
0

Some comments on my match vs. Titandrake:

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397069699823.txt
Crossroads, Trade Route, Philosopher's Stone, Bishop, Bureaucrat, Horse Traders, Duke, Tribute, Farmland, Grand Market

I decide on HT-Duke, then switch my mind on turn 4. I don't remember much besides that, don't know how I managed to win, or what was going on. Just, whatever, forget this game. What I do remember is that on my last turn, I have a 50/50 shot of winning vs losing, in that it all depends on if I draw a victory card or not. I don't, so I win.

I really feel that Bishop/GM is the way to go here. Maybe there is even a faster way to get GMs utilizing opponent's Bishops, as MarkowKette pointed out, but HT/Duke should lose here. So I go for Bishop/GM, while he starts HT and after a few turns switches gears. That should allow me to easily win the GM split, right? Well, we split 5-5.  My deck should be thinner though and I should still be able to win it. But actually his deck is thin first and he manages to get a huge lead and take the game.
Probably my golden deck-like approach was not so good here in presence of Crossroads, and maybe I got one or two Bishos too much. Still very unhappy about this game. :/


http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397073385204.txt
Fool's Gold, Tunnel, Philosopher's Stone, Coppersmith, Ironmonger, Taxman, Baker, Margrave, Soothsayer, Bank

Margrave-Fool's Gold, I buy a Soothsayer, always draw it dead, and it costs me so many Provinces. Psyduck wins pretty easily.

Don't have much to add. The Soothsayer was quite significant, so even though my Margraves met at the bottom of the shuffle, I didn't get into bigger problems.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397074660040.txt
Vineyard, Moat, Oracle, Sage, Advisor, Conspirator, Ironmonger, Smithy, Apprentice, Haggler

No +Buy, but Haggler gives you ways to gain actions. I get an early $5 for Haggler, then start using Haggler to gain Apprentice and Ironmongers and Conspirators. My deck starts up faster, and Apprentice trashes out most of my starting cards. Psyduck doesn't get Apprentice until later, and by then it was too late.

Titandrake's early Haggler was huge, while I couldn't get to $5 until turn 6. I also ignored Apprentices far too long, and in the end didn't have a chance. Very well played by Titandrake I think.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397076013129.txt
Transmute, University, Fortress, Ironmonger, Salvager, Taxman, Embassy, Royal Seal, Adventurer, Border Village

Salvager + Border Village + Fortress is a nice setup. I misplay, buying a Fortress on T3 which should have been Embassy. Psyduck wins the BV split and gets the win with the better engine. Need to remember to buy the cards, then buy the payload.

My best game in the series, maybe even the only good one. Although my Embassies appear three times without any village in hand, I can build up to a nice draw engine with Salvager/Fortress as payload.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397077965776.txt
Courtyard, Haven, Doctor, Smugglers, Storeroom, Trade Route, Advisor, Plaza, Remake, Duke

Really interesting board. Courtyard isn't the best card draw, but you have the trashing, the actions, and the +Buy. I decide on Storeroom/Silver into Duchy Duke. Psyduck opens Remake/Smugglers, with the plan of Smuggling away some Duchies, then Remaking them into Gold and playing the engine. We split Duchies 4-4, which is really bad for me, so I decide I need to end ASAP and start running out the Dukes and Estates. It helps that Trade Route is amazing at this point. I'm not sure which strategy is better: I feel like the engine should be able to get enough Provinces in time, but I'm not sure, and if the Duke player gets 5 Duchies, they win. Overall though, I think I played the Duke deck right.

Please don't look at this game. If you still do, don't try that at home. I played so badly. :-[
I don't know what I'm doing here. Smuggling Duchies, then remaking them into Golds and play an engine that buys all Provinces and at the same time denies the Duke player enough points seems not all that likely. And it's entirely impossible if you don't have a good plan. Just going for Dukes myself would have been better and much easier. Note to myself: Don't try fancy stuff in tournaments if there is a strong and easy alternative. Completely messed this game up.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397079050572.txt
Beggar, Embargo, Village, Moneylender, Nomad Camp, Remake, Explorer, Graverobber, Horn of Plenty, Mandarin

You know your board is slow when the best deck looks like Mandarin-BM. Psyduck has 5-2, Embargoes Gold and plans to use Remake to trash Mandarins and other $5 costs into Gold. Turns out that this is far too fancy and loses to Mandarin and Explorer.

Now here I get 5/2, start with Mandarin and can put an Embargo on Gold just before Titandrake hits $6 for the first time. Game over? Not if you plan to buy more Mandarins to remake them into Golds. If I play plain BM with 2-3 Mandarins I should win this.


I really feel a bit sad about that match, clearly my worst performance in this tournament. At least the first and the last game I should have been able to win with better play, maybe also that Duke game. It seems this cost me a spot in the top 16, but at least Titandrake can make it to the next round.

I'd like to say thank you to Titandrake for your patience while Goko kept kicking me out of our games. Good luck for the next rounds, I'll cheer for you. :)
Also thanks for Kirian and anyone else involved in organizing this event. It's been a pleasure to participate.
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Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2014, 12:40:52 am »
0

When it finishes uploading and processing, you can watch the entire set at

I edited out the typing on my turn, although in retrospect I should probably have edited down some of Psyduck's later turns as well. Also edited out the DCs. It works out to 2.5 hours worth though, so expect it to take 5-6 hours before you can watch it.
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gamesou

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KingZog3

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2014, 10:32:50 am »
0



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Chapel, Menagerie, Oasis, Workshop, Moneylender, Worker's Village, Harvest, Highway, Junk Dealer

Chapel Silver seems good here. You want a small deck that plays WV and Highway a lot. Workshop can gain with Highway, so really you only need to hit $5 once and then your deck should just snowball into awesomeness.
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Monsieur X

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2014, 03:43:36 pm »
+1



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Chapel, Menagerie, Oasis, Workshop, Moneylender, Worker's Village, Harvest, Highway, Junk Dealer

Chapel Silver seems good here. You want a small deck that plays WV and Highway a lot. Workshop can gain with Highway, so really you only need to hit $5 once and then your deck should just snowball into awesomeness.

I think gamesou noticed that. They both played this strategy (small deck and highway wv) but opening diferently
I prefer your idea gamesou. Chapel is perfect trasher, but moneylender gave you early junkdealer, and cycling with oasis can help to trash fast and buy frecuently 5 or 4.
I wouldnt say you had more luck than Marin (having 5 and 3 on turns 3 and 4 seems honest vs  chapel estate*2 copper*2 ). Before turn 6  really dont see luck and on turn 6 seeing what you have in your deck i understand your victory.
 (more easy to see it with this link  http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140410/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1397159851724.txt )


Honestly, when i saw your kingdom, i thougth i would have taken chapel/worshop. But next seeing your log, i think your idea was better


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dethwing

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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2014, 08:19:26 pm »
+1

Chapel Silver seems good here. You want a small deck that plays WV and Highway a lot. Workshop can gain with Highway, so really you only need to hit $5 once and then your deck should just snowball into awesomeness.

Chapel/Moneylender is better. Silver is a bad card, just a necessity to get to $5, which you will not if it collides with Chapel. Moneylender is thus equivalent to Silver, but speeds up trashing, which is key.
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qmech

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2014, 07:52:37 am »
0

This week's games against PitrPicko were some of the most fun games I've had in a long time. The second and third are unfortunately slightly one-sided, but the first is very interesting, and we follow different strategies each time.  There was also some great strategic discussion in between matches.



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Wishing Well, Baron, Feast, Counterfeit, Counting House, Horn of Plenty, Knights, Goons, Possessionhttp://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140408/log.506872f90cf2795d403d3f0a.1396981414863.txt

Goons, but no villages.  Knights. Counterfeit.

My first two $5+'s go on Knights, as I get to take Sir Bailey (cantrip) and Dame Molly (village).  After that it's Goons, Counterfeit and Wishing Well, with heavy Copper buying.

My turn 19 is perhaps most entertaining:

Code: [Select]
qmech plays Goons
qmech plays Counterfeit, Counterfeit, Counterfeit, Copper
qmech buys Goons, Wishing Well, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
qmech receives 7 victory point chips

PitrPicko gets fairly heavily into Beggars (19 Silvers at the end of the game), which are a splendid defence against Knights, but make it very difficult to hit $8 under constant Goons'ing.  The game is still very close: I take the lead and end it on piles in the same turn.

It's a real shame that the trash pile is not visible in the log.  Suffice it to say that it was very, very large.

Goons/Counterfeit (without villages) is tremendously appealing, but it's exceedingly slow, and the board might need to be otherwise weak to make it interesting.  I'd be glad to hear people's thoughts on that.



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Lighthouse, Apothecary, Smugglers, Urchin, Workshop, Caravan, Band of Misfits, Soothsayer, Possessionhttp://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140408/log.506872f90cf2795d403d3f0a.1396982453441.txt

I get an exceptionally useful 5/2 (Lighthouse/Soothsayer) and keep up rolling Lighthouse coverage through much of the game.  PitrPicko goes hard Apothecary, which doesn't really do anything here.



Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Native Village, Stonemason, Doctor, Woodcutter, Horse Traders, Sea Hag, Knights, Tactician, Fairgroundshttp://dominionlogs.goko.com/20140408/log.506872f90cf2795d403d3f0a.1396983401655.txt

PitrPicko hits 5/2 just when he doesn't want it, and makes the brave decision to skip Sea Hag.  I get two (expecting them to die to Knights).  Dame Anna (trash) offers a ray of hope, but has the bad luck to instantly run into Sir Destry.

We're both clearly building up to Fairgrounds, but, weirdly, none ever get bought.  PitrPicko explains that he has so many Tacticians to get a chance at hitting $6 with 8 Curses.  This speaks clearly of desperation, and makes me feel incredibly mean.
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2014, 12:43:43 pm »
+2

soulnet 3 - 1 jaybeez

For what is surely the last game for one of us (both with 8 points before this match) and possibly for the winner as well (or surely both if we tied), the kingdom maker god gave us interesting boards to work with. Just one money game, and it had interesting decisions at $5.

@AdamH, the first game is made for your JoaT article.

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140412/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1397317303406.txt
Code: [Select]
Village, Wishing Well, Farming Village, JackOfAllTrades, Band of Misfits, Catacombs, Council Room, Market, Treasury, TributeThis is definitely engine. Catacombs is great draw and there are plenty of Villages, with Jack to take care of some trashing and produce all the economy. I get WW instead of Silver to open. It is mostly as good at the start (less reliable economy, but extra cycling) and way better later to connect pieces. We pound on Villages first and draw later. I get Council Room for the +Buy and huge draw, because it is not as bad to give him free card early while he is still playing Jack's draw to 5. He gets Market for the +Buy instead, which I think is a mistake. He told me at the end had pretty bad luck connecting Village and draw, and is probably true, given that the difference is way too high for a mirror. I still think I took a bit better decisions, but probably not enough to justify the easy win. I even mistakenly trash Council Room instead of playing it (bought a new one right after, which would have been a Province turn, possibly Province+Village) and still cruised to victory due to having a big advantage at the moment.
1-0


http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140412/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1397318352852.txt
Code: [Select]
Ironmonger, Tournament, Catacombs, Council Room, Festival, Merchant Ship, Rabble, Royal Seal, Adventurer, ExpandAnother clearly engine board, with Tournament, which pushes engine to connect. No trashing or good Attacks (Rabble is too slow, and Ironmonger counters it), so it is a race to Followers. He gets it first, but I more or less hold my ground with Trusty Steed. He mistakenly breaks PPR but I only get to $7 and am stuck with Duchy+Estate and he has enough for the last Province and the game. My afterthought is that he needed more draw, and my early Expand was an unnecesary gamble (may give early Province, but building the engine is probably more important). If someone cares to comment, I think this is the game to do it.
1-1

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140412/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1397318955833.txt
Code: [Select]
Herbalist, Pawn, Great Hall, Storeroom, Counterfeit, Margrave, Merchant Guild, Mint, Tribute, ForgeThe only BM game, because there are no Villages. We both open double Silver, and then more or less mirror, getting Margrave, lucky Mints with 5 Coppers, and then he gets Counterfeit and I get early Gold. He gets luckier with the Attack at the beginning, but I dive into Duchies early because I have a good number of Silvers and a Gold, minus 5 Coppers, so I think being second player I can put some presure. He gets ahead on Provinces, but I get an advantage with the Duchies. He is forced breaking PPR and we stall a bit exchanging Duchies, until I get an extremely lucky draw and can buy the last Province after Margrave Attack thanks to having my only two Golds in hand plus a Silver. I think saving all the luck for endgame was the right call :). Also, I think we each were lucky in one of the first two games, but this is by far the most significant.
2-1

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140412/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1397319758382.txt
Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Moat, Watchtower, Death Cart, Tournament, Treasure Map, Catacombs, Festival, Rabble, WharfTournament again, and another engine with Catacombs, although there is also the best drawer in the game: Wharf. I go heavily for Wharves first, and he goes for more Villages early. He gets to Followers first here too, but I have more Wharves to support greening and the discarding Attack is not terrible, so Trusty Steed may very well be superior here (I would probably would have gotten Followers myself as well, this is an afterthought). He has too many Candlestick Makers, which are not as good in the end when you need to clinch points instead of hoarding, and my Silvers are better for that, which give me the edge. It was really close, though.
3-1

Thanks for the games jaybeez. Also, can someone tell me if there is chance that I get into the playoffs? I do not get the tiebreakers very well, but being on the bottom half of the people with 8 points in the round 6 standings has to be pretty bad, right?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 04:08:11 pm by soulnet »
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pst

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2014, 03:39:10 pm »
0

pst 3 vs. 17and3buys 0

Game 1: Candlestick Maker, Chapel, Duchess, Scrying Pool, Market Square, Alchemist, Advisor, Apprentice, Cache, Fairgrounds.

Openings: Potion/Chapel vs. Market Square/Chapel.

Game 2: Stonemason, Smugglers, Tunnel, Workshop, Baron, Feodum, Scout, Festival, Highway, Saboteur.

Openings: Highway/ vs. Silver/Silver.
Close game where I once was lucky to be able to smuggle a Province.

Game 3: Crossroads, Fool's Gold, Doctor, Menagerie, Shanty Town, Wishing Well, Bureaucrat, Plaza, Butcher, Altar. Shelters.

Openings: Doctor for 4, trashing a Copper/Fool's Gold vs. Plaza/Silver.

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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2014, 03:41:10 pm »
+1

Smartie (Chan Kuan Rong) beats and knocks me out of finals contention! Which is a shame, because I was so close, just like last year!

It was hard to be too upset, though. They were very great games. I think he got a bit luckier than me, overall, but not a LOT luckier. And he definitely outplayed me in the last game and deserved to win.

Anyway, wish I could post the logs! There was some Salvager error and I didn't get them.
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2014, 04:08:53 pm »
0

Goko log search is back, so I already posted the logs of my match against jaybeez (see above).
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amalloy

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amalloy

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2014, 05:38:57 pm »
+1

Also, can someone tell me if there is chance that I get into the playoffs? I do not get the tiebreakers very well, but being on the bottom half of the people with 8 points in the round 6 standings has to be pretty bad, right?

There are (roughly, I haven't done a detailed analysis) 8 players guaranteed to finish ahead of you, 6 who will beat you if they win or tie, and 9 who need a win to stay ahead. Assuming they're all playing each other (probably not quite true, but close), I'd say you have a decent chance of making it. In the best case, 3 of the 6 play each other with no ties, and all 9 of the others get a tie in their match: you could qualify as high as 12th. Unlikely as that result is, you absolutely have a shot at getting in.
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Smartie

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2014, 12:06:50 pm »
0

Thanks amalloy, that was really helpful of you! :) Will comment on it tomorrow when I can squeeze in some time! And yes, the games played were really awesome! Totally enjoyed the thrill  :P
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faust

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2014, 12:38:42 pm »
+1

faust vs Jimmmmm

Game 1 Jimmmmm wins



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Vineyard, Great Hall, Sage, Shanty Town, Urchin, Baron, Fortress, Moneylender, Treasure Map, Witch
The key cards in the first match are obvious: Vineyard and Urchin/Mercenary, supported by Baron (for +buy) and Fortress. Our strategies diverge in only one point: Do you want a Witch or not? I think no, because it gives the opponent's Mercenaries fodder. Jimmmmm goes for it, and I'm still not sure what's the better move here. In the end, I think I'm behind even though I'm ahead (no VP counter), and trash a Province in a desperate attempt to get to the win (there's only one Estate left for the three-pile), and I lose (looking at Jimmmm's next hand, I guess I would have won otherwise).

Game 2 faust wins



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Embargo, Smugglers, Conspirator, Treasure Map, Library, Minion, Mountebank, Rebuild, Soothsayer, Fairgrounds
A Rebuild game, but one of the more interesting ones. Just Rebuild isn't enough, there's Mountebank, Minion and Smugglers which all go well with Rebuild games. There's also Fairgrounds as a viable source of Alt-VP, and a compensation if you lose the Duchy split. In the end, I think what helped me here was getting the Smugglers in the first shuffle over a Silver (I take this more risky approach because I'm second player). It also felt as if I was having more luck with my Smuggling.

Game 3 Jimmmmm wins



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Cellar, Haven, Oasis, Warehouse, Throne Room, Treasure Map, Butcher, Harvest, Highway, Fairgrounds
Key cards: Warehouse, Treasure Map, Butcher. Butcher is just so good for BM, and Treasure Map/Warehouse is a decent BM enabler. I think Jimmmmm's 5/2 opening is superior to my 4/3 here, he gets the Butcher first and then collides his Treasure Maps before me. From there, I pretty much never have a shot at winning this.

Game 4 faust wins



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Doctor, Fishing Village, Forager, Loan, Oasis, Warehouse, Treasure Map, Butcher, Ghost Ship, Mountebank
Interestingly, this game has the same Warehouse/Butcher/Treasure Map combo as the previous one, but it's no longer as dominant. While my opponent goes for it again, I opt for the engine with a double Forager opening Ghost Ship is just such a strong counter to BM, and Forager helps me get rid of the junk from the Mountebanks. Jimmmmm tries to go for the engine as well after his Treasure Maps collided, but it's already too late, and I hit him with Ghost Ships almost every turn. When I can, I end the game on piles.

Game 5 faust wins



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Duchess, Stonemason, Apothecary, Fortune Teller, Lookout, Nomad Camp, Sea Hag, Cartographer, Merchant Ship, Goons
The Sea Hag/Lookout opening is pretty obvious here (I wondered, could the Hag actually be skippable here?), but from there, we go different routes. Jimmmmm tries a more BM-y approach with Cartographers, I choose the Apothecary deck. Stonemason helps me get those Apothecaries faster, but the game is quite tense for a long time. In the end, I feel confident enough to focus on running piles out rather than getting more points, and it works.

Game 6 faust wins



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Fool's Gold, Sage, Bishop, Death Cart, Mining Village, Navigator, Ghost Ship, Horn of Plenty, Hunting Grounds, Nobles
The last game just screams for a Horn of Plenty megaturn. Jimmmmm goes for Fool's Golds, but I decide that with lack of +buy and Colonies, they should be skippable here. I am a little terrified when he starts amassing Platina, but then my engine gets running. Maybe I could have gotten a Bishop for trashing earlier, but I was afraidof helping his strategy. In the end, what I did worked well enough.

Thanks for the games, Jimmmm! The match was really tense most of the time, as I felt a game deciding who might make it to the playoffs should be.
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michaeljb

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2014, 05:41:22 pm »
+2

Game 1 - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140413/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1397421612849.txt



Code: [Select]
Philosopher's Stone, Death Cart, Ironmonger, Remodel, Throne Room, Duke, Knights, Mandarin, Minion, Tribute
An early Remodel lets me turn Shelters into Silvers, and I even get a lucky hand in which I remodel Silver into Minion and buy another Minion. Other than that it's a couple Treasures, Ironmongers and green for me. DG also grabbed some Throne Rooms and Sir Vander, which takes out some minions and a Gold but it wasn't enough to slow me down after winning the Minion split. Josephine was the second available knight and went ignored for the game.
michaeljb 25 - 21 DG


Game 2 - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140413/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1397422486800.txt



Code: [Select]
Doctor, Monument, Quarry, Remodel, Spy, Thief, Wandering Minstrel, Worker's Village, Outpost, Hoard
In the chat, DG mentioned that there were some different marginal strategies here. He mainly went for BM with a couple Monuments, but I thought the Monument engine looked pretty good. I drew $6 on turn 3, buying Doctor and trashing 3 cards, getting my Monument playing machine off to a nice start. I did eventually get an Outpost; without draw it wasn't great, but the extra turns did usually help a little and definitely didn't hurt. DG got the early lead by buying Provinces, but it was just a matter of time before I could play lots of Monuments and buy green on a turn. In the end (22 turns), I was up on VP chips by 31-7, more than enough to clear DG's Province lead.
DG 50 - 58 michaeljb


Game 3 - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140413/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1397423196792.txt



Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Pearl Diver, Masquerade, Storeroom, Horse Traders, Noble Brigand, Minion, Mystic, Royal Seal, Venture
Here I opened 5/2 to DG's 4/3, but after turn 3 we each had a Minion and Masquerade. DG took the Minion split this time, but I +buy cards earlier, producing a couple of $7 turns to get Minion+Lighthouse. Between Lighthouses and Horse Traders I was pretty well protected from Minion's discard, and even when it hit I still got decent turns. I think I overbought terminals, but perhaps that was mitigated by Storeroom and HT both being discard-for-coins, and by having Necropolis available. Despite losing the Minion split, I came out ahead and we chatted a bit about it since it seemed surprising, especially given the Minion split. I haven't combed through the log analyzing draws yet, but I suspect I did generally draw better. Probably the biggest actual decision we made differently in the game was with our first $3 hands: DG bought Silver (turn 1) and I bought Storeroom (turn 4).
DG 31 - 35 michaeljb

I'm super excited to be heading to the finals, a first for me!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 05:44:00 pm by michaeljb »
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2014, 07:32:39 pm »
+1

Also, can someone tell me if there is chance that I get into the playoffs? I do not get the tiebreakers very well, but being on the bottom half of the people with 8 points in the round 6 standings has to be pretty bad, right?

To expand on this, soulnet, the chance of you being in the playoffs is close to 100%.

There are (roughly, I haven't done a detailed analysis) 8 players guaranteed to finish ahead of you, 6 who will beat you if they win or tie, and 9 who need a win to stay ahead. Assuming they're all playing each other (probably not quite true, but close), I'd say you have a decent chance of making it. In the best case, 3 of the 6 play each other with no ties, and all 9 of the others get a tie in their match: you could qualify as high as 12th. Unlikely as that result is, you absolutely have a shot at getting in.
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amalloy

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2014, 11:20:04 pm »
+2

amalloy 3-1 Beyond Awesome

You can watch the full match on Twitch, or watch each game individually using the links included with each game in this writeup.


Game 1 Log Video



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Apothecary, University, Fortune Teller, Swindler, Tunnel, Feodum, JackOfAllTrades, Moneylender, Jester, Journeyman
I try to build some kind of university/jack/journeyman thing, but really it's just a complete mess; a simple jack/bm crushes what either of us did. Eventually my opponent gets me with a surprise three-pile: I didn't think he was capable of emptying the University pile, but his Jester happens to hit my University. Best to say no more about this embarrassment of a game.

amalloy 0-1 Beyond Awesome


Game 2 Log Video



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Nomad Camp, Thief, Bazaar, Count, Governor, Library, Mine, Stables, Tribute, Bank
We both decide to play Stables/Bank, with Nomad Camp for +buy. I lose the Stables split 6-4, but I get my two Banks earlier than he gets his one; I pick up a Governor for extra draw as well. We each get one double-Province turn, and the endgame is somewhat close, but I have initiative on greening and can stay ahead wire to wire.

amalloy 1-1 Beyond Awesome


Game 3 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Oasis, Bridge, Caravan, Coppersmith, Feodum, Mining Village, Salvager, Scout, Ill-Gotten Gains, Upgrade
The Bridge engine here is pretty marginal, with only Caravan for draw, but I was unable to find anything else very compelling and decided to go for it. I didn't quite understand what my opponent was doing until fairly late-game, but his Upgrade/Feodum thing seems to have worked out pretty well: he wound up with 15 Silvers and three Feoda, plus several Provinces. The endgame was very tense for me, especially because I wrongly believed he could pile out at any moment: his deck was too bloated for him to play multiple Upgrades. Finally I put together a Bridge megaturn on a nine-card starting hand, and can drain the Provinces and pick up enough Duchies to take the lead. If I had been less afraid of his imaginary three-pile, I could have ended this a couple turns earlier with a lot less stress.

amalloy 2-1 Beyond Awesome


Game 4 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Woodcutter, Alchemist, Spy, Wandering Minstrel, Catacombs, Trading Post, Vault, Border Village, Hoard, Bank
I think there is an engine here, with Woodcutter, Minstrel, and Catacombs or Vault or something. But it will take a long time to get going, and Vault/Hoard/money is pretty darn fast, so I decide to just play money. My opponent also plays money/hoard, but he gets a 3-6 in the first shuffle, making Vault inconvenient for him. In the end, I have three Vaults and he has none, which puts me in a very strong position. As it happens I win by just an Estate, but I think that was even with some pretty poor shuffles from my deck - after the first shuffle I was always winning the long game.

amalloy 3-1 Beyond Awesome


Anyway, thanks for the match, Beyond Awesome. And thanks to my viewers: it was fun to read your commentary after the game. Sadly I don't think my tiebreaker is quite good enough to make the playoffs, but you never know, maybe one of the top 16 will disappear in suspicious circumstances. Either way, I'm quite pleased to have done as well as I did. Lastly, a big thanks to Kirian for running this whole thing again: Gokodom must be a lot of work, and it's a lot of fun to play in.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 01:26:13 am by amalloy »
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secret tunnel

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2014, 04:31:22 pm »
+1

I played a fun series of games with florrat. As we were sitting right on the cusp of the top 16, we knew we were probably playing for a seat in the next round.

Game 1: Maybe the most interesting game -- certainly the one I'm most interested to think more about. Key cards are Cultist and Ambassador, with Pawn, Procession, and Feodom playing interesting roles. Only source of extra actions come from Processing cantrips (or Madman). I open Pawn-Cultist, and am able to get three Cultists by turn 5, leading to an early ruins advantage, but florrat's persistent Ambassadoring mitigates somewhat. The wacky move along the way is Processing Cultists for +7 cards, even though there are no $6 actions. I pick up Hermits and Mint for silver, planning to go Feodom in a long slog. I manage to pull it out by 3-piling with a 1-point advantage in turn 32. Super weird game. I have no idea what the best strategy is.

Game 2: I underestimate Ironworks/Silk Road and get destroyed.

Game 3: Another incredibly close one. We both make the interesting choice to open Embargo/Mint. I think if I'd been in the first position, I wouldn't have tried that. There are some interesting Embargoings along the way -- florrat surprises me by blocking the virgin Silver pile, but I take one anyway, for something to Mint. I feel good to win the Tournament race and pick up Trusty Steed on turn 13, but florrat Schemes together a string of Followers plays that slow me down a lot after that. I'm lucky enough to be able to pick up the last Province for a 35-32 win.

Game 4: Torturer. Florrat builds a fairly conventional engine with Fortress and Torturer and a bit of help from Cellar; I see the lack of buys and skip the actions, buying lots of money and two Torturers. This proves the way to go in this one, as I build an early lead, buying Provinces on turns 7 and 11, not being afraid to accept more curses than I'd ordinarily like. I pick up some late Cartographers, although they end up making little difference. By the time florrat's able to buy Provinces, I've put this one away.

Thanks very much florrat for a fun series of games.

 
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florrat

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2014, 05:09:03 pm »
0

Yeah, the match between secret tunnel and me was very interesting.

Game 1: Very interesting game. We are both pretty much forces to play Cultist (secret tunnel) vs Ambassador (florrat) in some sort of ultra-slog. We eventually clear out ruins a bit with Procession, and secret tunnel uses Madman for a big Mint buy. secret tunnel transitions to Feodum, gaining Silvers with Hermit, while I try to build up to Provinces. secret tunnel manages to get a win on 1 point after 32 turns.

Game 2: What secret tunnel said: Ironworks/Silk Road is too strong here to ignore.

Game 3: We both open Embargo/Mint transitioning to Tournaments. We both weren't that fast, so maybe just going for Tournaments directly was better. secret tunnel manages to connect Tournament + Province first, but takes Trusty Steed over Followers, which is a mistake, I think. I break PPR (Duchies were embargoed, and I could only get the same number of points as secret tunnel by buying Duchy), and lose.

Game 4: Another interesting game. I try Torturer + Fortress (with 1 Cellar, no +buy, no trashing except on Knights), while secret tunnel goes Torturer Big Money. I was too slow. Maybe I should've transitioned into Knights as well, hoping to pick up +buy or trashing that way.
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