Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: How did I lose to Big Money + Envoy?  (Read 2437 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2833
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3879
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
How did I lose to Big Money + Envoy?
« on: April 06, 2014, 10:33:39 pm »
0

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140406/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1396837917306.txt

What did I do wrong? BM+Envoy has to be terrible here and I still lost, which means I must have played so bad. I don't understand.
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

MarkowKette

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
  • Respect: +217
    • View Profile
Re: How did I lose to Big Money + Envoy?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2014, 11:07:16 pm »
+1

I think you shouldn't have contested the gardens that early. Yes they are 4 points each for him and can potentially get to 5 and are already 3 points for you and dukes are only 5 points for you, but you still want to delay the game ending there because you will hit 5 more often than he will hit 4.
I don't think you misplayed this very much.
He got a bit lucky in the early to midgame putting you under a lot of pressure with 6 provinces by turn 15 and your second shuffle was really unfortunate aswell.
Also you never managed to connect your 2 remakes to turn one into a duke basically having 2 dead cards in your deck later.
I'm also not so sure that you really want 2 remakes here. Trashing copper over estates with remake early on is also a little questionable yes you will have a thinner deck and are able to play your familiars a little more often but it puts you in a higher danger of missing $3P on an early potion turn aswell (didn't happen here) and a little more economy is really helpfull later on in the slog.

All this is just a few points that might have influenced the game. But i think most of the reason why you lost is that he had better shuffles in the important early game. your strategy (independant of whether you'd change the things i mentioned or not) should beat his envoy BM in more than 80% of the cases maybe even 90%
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1709
  • Respect: +4329
    • View Profile
Re: How did I lose to Big Money + Envoy?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2014, 11:23:21 pm »
+3

First things first: you barely lost, so don't read so much into it, whatever you did it was at least competitive.

The board is clogged with Alt-VP without good support for any of it. There's almost nothing to do here. So BM Envoy isn't that weak, and your opponent is able to buy lots of Gold early, which makes it way faster. I suspect that if you get the Familiar before the second reshuffle the game looks different, but your potion whiffs. In this game you end up in a situation where you've really stunted your own economic growth without hindering your opponent's.

Other possibilities to consider:
- opening Remake and adding Familiar later, but this also looks like it will curse slowly
- opening Remake and going heavy for Remakes, maybe try more Feoda with Duchy/Duke, maybe your opponent just piles out the Provinces without the curses in his deck
- opening Remake and try for Tournament, probably your Tournaments get shut down hard by his deck (so many Provinces), though Trusty Steed is quite the prize here
- mirror

The deck thinning from Remake isn't rewarded very well on this board, though Estate -> Silver, Silver->$4 VP is nice, and I guess the Feoda interaction is ok.

I dunno, extremely weak board, too much green. BM Envoy is ok, upgraded to pretty good with nice draws. Not every loss has a special lesson, "you make your own shuffle luck" makes you read too much into these games. Play the bots base set only some, I used to lose to Smithy BM when I played Witches sometimes. It happens.
Logged

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2833
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3879
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: How did I lose to Big Money + Envoy?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2014, 11:26:38 pm »
0

- opening Remake and try for Tournament, probably your Tournaments get shut down hard by his deck (so many Provinces), though Trusty Steed is quite the prize here

This game was with an IRL friend, we agree not to buy Tournament when it appears on the board.

Thanks for your feedback, btw. I feel like Envoy should be terrible against Familiars and I just feel like I had to do something terribly wrong in order for him to be anywhere close to me.
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: How did I lose to Big Money + Envoy?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2014, 08:24:59 am »
+4

- opening Remake and try for Tournament, probably your Tournaments get shut down hard by his deck (so many Provinces), though Trusty Steed is quite the prize here

This game was with an IRL friend, we agree not to buy Tournament when it appears on the board.



*moves the thread to the Variants forum*
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2833
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3879
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: How did I lose to Big Money + Envoy?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2014, 10:44:59 am »
0

OK so it looks like the people who were going to respond have already done so. Thanks again.

The decisions I was questioning in this game were the following:

How strong *is* BM+Envoy, really? I know it has explosive potential but it can also be very unreliable and is very swingy. Sure it worked out well here but does that make it a strategy that I should play when there's something more consistent on the board? I'm inclined to say yes but I'd like other high-level players' opinions on it, and it seems they agree with me for the most part.

I feel a similar way about Baron+BM, actually. I really hate playing Envoy and Baron BM, am I right to group them together in this context?

Second, the Remake. I feel like it has to be a good card here, because it allows you to clean up Curses and build a little bit of economy out of your Estates. Now considering my opponent didn't signal he was going for Familiars, I thought the Remake would help me curse him faster, and I thought that would be important. Important enough that I should trash Coppers over Estates early on. The one piece of feedback I got on this particular decision wasn't exactly decisive. Does anyone have another opinion on this decision?
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.04 seconds with 21 queries.