Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Which engine is better?  (Read 2195 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

AndrewisFTTW

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1129
  • Respect: +1084
    • View Profile
Which engine is better?
« on: March 27, 2014, 03:42:02 pm »
+1



Code: [Select]
Native Village, Market Square, Herald, Moneylender, Baker, Butcher, Cache, Merchant Ship, Adventurer, Nobles
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.516ddc20e4b082c74d7cbc04.1395949102232.txt

My opponent went for nv/nobles and I went for herald/baker (although the baker part never really got there) and even though I lost this pretty bad, I think the herald engine should still be pretty strong if played optimally. I think I should've gotten a second butcher pretty early and pushed for bakers harder. Maybe ignore nobles altogether? Help me out here!
Logged
Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

SCSN

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2227
  • Respect: +7140
    • View Profile
Re: Which engine is better?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 05:28:16 pm »
+3

I agree with the Herald plan but your third turn is already very problematic:

F T T W: turn 3
F T T W   plays Butcher
F T T W   receives 2 coin tokens
F T T W   trashes Estate
F T T W   reveals reaction Market Square
F T T W   discards Market Square
F T T W   gains Gold
F T T W   uses 1 coin token
F T T W   gains Market Square
F T T W   draws Copper, Estate, Copper, Copper, Copper

I suggest you to read up on the surprisingly little known tale of King Midas, which teaches that Gold is actually a pretty shitty card, especially so in Herald decks that want Actions, Actions and more, more Actions—not shiny Treasures that only leave them unfed.

So play the Market Square, then Butcher the Estate into a Moneylender; no need to save your tokens, they're best consumed while hot.
Logged

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: Which engine is better?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 05:44:23 pm »
0

My thought is that you can get as much gold as you need a bit later in the game, with market squares, once your deck is under control. You should start by trashing down the deck using the moneylender+butcher and just try to draw through your deck with heralds, nobles, and a market square (or two). Once your deck is small you should have explosive turns where you can gain and spend and butcher a lot of gold for a very, very, strong engine.
Logged

AndrewisFTTW

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1129
  • Respect: +1084
    • View Profile
Re: Which engine is better?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 06:06:10 pm »
+1

Thanks guys! Here's a better one:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.516ddc20e4b082c74d7cbc04.1395957818447.txt

That herald on turn 3 should've been a moneylender but is there anything other than that that I could've played differently? Maybe another butcher ASAP?
Logged
Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: Which engine is better?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 06:28:47 pm »
0

Regardless of what you're comboing Herald with, you've got to pick up some Nobles, especially in a mirror.
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1709
  • Respect: +4329
    • View Profile
Re: Which engine is better?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2014, 06:51:53 pm »
0

Thanks guys! Here's a better one:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.516ddc20e4b082c74d7cbc04.1395957818447.txt

That herald on turn 3 should've been a moneylender but is there anything other than that that I could've played differently? Maybe another butcher ASAP?

You shouldn't be getting so many Bakers. Nobles is considerably better because it lets you take greater advantage of the Butcher/Market Square synergy. There's no point to getting one token at a time when you can print Golds.

Here's a sample log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1395960537149.txt

I also like getting a couple of Native Villages, but this probably isn't so important.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 06:53:03 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4386
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Which engine is better?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2014, 07:08:09 pm »
+5

The main thrust of engines that people don't get is that you pretty much want to draw your deck first, worry about doing fun things like make a zillion dollars later. Until you're to that point, all of your plays should be geared to "does this help me draw my deck* faster (or occasionally, stop my opponent from drawing their deck faster)? If no, it's almost certainly the wrong card to get. So, do I want a free Platinum in my deck? Not really; it doesn't help me draw my deck - it actually stops me from it. You don't want to start shifting your buys toward getting payload until you're at least very close to the draw-your-deck point, and quite often not until you're already there.

The only exception to that, really, is if I really need that money to get to some expensive card that will help me draw my deck - but you need pretty little money to start building that 'drawing-my-deck' engine. So I probably take the platinum turn 1 most games, but not turn 3 (by then, I already have enough money).

*By drawing your deck, I mean drawing but-not-necessarily-keeping all the cards; so if I see every card in my hand, but discard 8 garbage cards to cartographers and warehouses and hunting parties and whatnot, I am drawing my deck. Actually drawing everything is nice, but not so always-necessary.

AndrewisFTTW

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1129
  • Respect: +1084
    • View Profile
Re: Which engine is better?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2014, 12:52:30 am »
0

Thanks guys, this is all great advice!
Logged
Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.098 seconds with 21 queries.