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Author Topic: Environment cards  (Read 4743 times)

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ConMan

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Environment cards
« on: March 26, 2014, 01:43:04 am »
+1

I don't think I've seen this particular idea proposed, although it resembles some other ideas as well as borrowing from similar concepts in CCGs. The Environment cards (I don't like the name, but we'll start with it) are, like Knights, a stack of 10 unique cards with different names and effects, and their order would be randomised at the start of a game. Environment cards would have a few things in common:

1. Rather than being cards you add to your deck, they go straight into play when gained and don't get discarded from play.
2. Only one Environment card can be in play at a time.
3. All Environment card have a "while this is in play" effect, usually affecting everyone.

So, where not specified, Environment cards have the sole type "Environment" and card text that includes "When you gain this, put it into play. Do not discard this card during Clean-up. When another Environment card comes into play, trash this card." I haven't worked out how to avoid the issues caused by cards like Watchtower other than to rule that they can't target Environment cards.

The Environment cards could include (costs not listed because I don't know how much they should cost, and names definitely open to alternatives):

Free Market
While this is in play, at the start of each player's turn (including yours), he gets +1 Buy. When you buy this, +$1 +1 Buy.

Metropolis
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.

Co-operative
While this is in play, at the start of each player's turn (including yours), he gets +1 Action. At the start of your turn, +1 Card.

Inflation
While this is in play, Copper produces $1 extra when played.

Mulligan
While this is in play, at the start of each player's turn (including yours), he may discard his hand. If he does, he gets +4 Cards.
Rules clarification: You may choose to resolve this along with other start-of-turn effects like Duration cards in any order, but you must resolve the whole discard-and-draw effect before resolving any other effects.
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Grujah

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2014, 05:27:35 am »
+1

What is my motive to spend money and a buy on a symmetrical effect that might even not last till my next turn (when I can use it) ?

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2014, 05:43:35 am »
0

I like the choice of environments to fit certain decks more than others, but the problem of having to wait for your turn at which point it may be gone is an issue. Perhaps add some "when buy" sweeteners that largely make the card almost worthwhile on its own. I don't like how cooperative distinguishes between players; once the environment's in play it shouldn't matter who put it there.

What I like the most is that these cards would only need take up one card in a box, so I hope these ideas work out.
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AJD

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2014, 10:59:41 am »
+1

So, where not specified, Environment cards have the sole type "Environment" and card text that includes "When you gain this, put it into play. Do not discard this card during Clean-up. When another Environment card comes into play, trash this card." I haven't worked out how to avoid the issues caused by cards like Watchtower other than to rule that they can't target Environment cards.

"When you would gain this, put it into play instead"?
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ConMan

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 07:36:20 pm »
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What is my motive to spend money and a buy on a symmetrical effect that might even not last till my next turn (when I can use it) ?
That's a definite issue which I tried to deal with on at least some of the cards - Free Market and Metropolis both give instant bonuses (although you may not always be able to make use of them), while Co-operative's bonus is slightly better for the buyer. I agree that there is a need to make the others a little more attractive to buy, but I'm not sure what, especially given that many bonuses wouldn't be that great mid-buy phase.
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Marcory

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 08:11:07 pm »
+1

If you want a bonus, why not the Border Village bonus, or some variant thereof? ('When you buy this, gain
-a cheaper card
-a card costing up to X less than this
-X VP
-X coin tokens

All of these might be more useful to the buyer than a Buy phase bonus
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Nik

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 08:15:10 pm »
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You should make some cards to gain these, instead of them having costs.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2014, 08:28:04 pm »
+1

Or you just randomly select one Environment at the start of the game, which affects the entire match. Very simple, light way to change up the feel of the game. Technically fair, though it may exacerbate first player advantage. I've thought of a variant like this before, and others have probably posted similar concepts too.
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Awaclus

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2014, 07:23:14 am »
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Or you just randomly select one Environment at the start of the game, which affects the entire match. Very simple, light way to change up the feel of the game. Technically fair, though it may exacerbate first player advantage. I've thought of a variant like this before, and others have probably posted similar concepts too.
You don't need a variant for that.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2014, 12:00:45 pm »
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Or you just randomly select one Environment at the start of the game, which affects the entire match. Very simple, light way to change up the feel of the game. Technically fair, though it may exacerbate first player advantage. I've thought of a variant like this before, and others have probably posted similar concepts too.
You don't need a variant for that.

You do if you don't want to take up a Kingdom card slot, and if you want to guarantee such an effect while still playing full random.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 09:54:28 am »
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You could make a pile of environments that is not in he supply and have a specific action card subtype (like Looter) that interacts with environments. Some of them might put a randomly (or however) chosen environment into play (replacing the former?) when you play the action. This allows for some cute interactions and gives the "triggering" player the opportunity to benefit from the environment right away.
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BadAssMutha

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2014, 11:12:49 am »
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How about just having the Environment change every round, or after a set number of turns? "At the start of Player 1's turn, put the top Environment card into play." This gets around the issue of having to take a turn to buy it, and ensures that everyone gets a fair play in each Environment. Plus, it could help balance the Environments, getting rid of the costing issue, as well as the case where people stop buying Environments once the "best" one is in play. It wouldn't be a problem to have Environments of widely different value. You could even have negative environments like "Tithe - while this is in play, -$1". Playing one Environment a round would only last 10 turns, but maybe they could recycle or get replaced every other turn.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2014, 01:19:16 pm »
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How about just having the Environment change every round, or after a set number of turns? "At the start of Player 1's turn, put the top Environment card into play." This gets around the issue of having to take a turn to buy it, and ensures that everyone gets a fair play in each Environment. Plus, it could help balance the Environments, getting rid of the costing issue, as well as the case where people stop buying Environments once the "best" one is in play. It wouldn't be a problem to have Environments of widely different value. You could even have negative environments like "Tithe - while this is in play, -$1". Playing one Environment a round would only last 10 turns, but maybe they could recycle or get replaced every other turn.
At first I had something similar in mind but quickly dismissed the idea because it would be a pain in the a** in a game in real life to keep track of the turns. Actions that change the environment when you play them solve the aforementioned issue, too. You want to play the action to get the benefit from them, so the environment gets changed along with them.
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Flash cards - trying out a new concept

BadAssMutha

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Re: Environment cards
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2014, 02:16:28 pm »
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Quote
At first I had something similar in mind but quickly dismissed the idea because it would be a pain in the a** in a game in real life to keep track of the turns. Actions that change the environment when you play them solve the aforementioned issue, too. You want to play the action to get the benefit from them, so the environment gets changed along with them.

True, you wouldn't be able to have Environment cards with an on-play effect if Environments entered play on a set schedule. I don't think it would be too bad to keep track of the turns, though, you could just use tokens. Say a new Environment enters play every other turn. Every time P1 takes a turn, he does one of two things: if there is a token on the Environment pile, remove it; or if there is no token on the pile, put the top environment into play and put a token on the pile. Just add more tokens if you want longer environment durations. A new Environment every other turn would last for 20 turns, which means most but not all of the Environments would get played in most games, but some slog games would have the last Environment stick around for the balance of the game.
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