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Author Topic: FTTW and I disagree on Forager  (Read 3657 times)

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KingZog3

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FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« on: March 24, 2014, 04:38:01 pm »
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Beggar, Fool's Gold, Herbalist, University, Forager, Philosopher's Stone, Hunting Party, Junk Dealer, Adventurer, Hoard
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140324/log.516ddc20e4b082c74d7cbc04.1395692806802.txt

Ok, so I'm posting this not to debate strategy so much as to debate the use of Forager. My strategy is clearly bad (Fools gold+Adventurer). But AndrewisFTTW claimed that his forger strategy (pumping them up to $6) is worth it, even if it had been a mirror. I disagreed, saying it's too costly to buy expensive cards just to trash. in a mirror I would have been able to use his work and profit more than him. I want people here to agree with me, and disagree with FTTW (boost my ego please).
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 04:39:11 pm by KingZog3 »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 04:40:11 pm »
+1

I don't think trying to pump up forager is sensationally good very often, for two reasons. One, it's very slow to get forager up so much. Two, when you do, your opponent can just buy some foragers himself, and presumably he gets to reap similar benefits without investing so much.

AndrewisFTTW

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2014, 04:54:33 pm »
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On this specific kingdom I think hunting partys save the day for the forager strategy. Maybe if I was able to get a couple more universitys before trashing the potion it would've been even faster. I could be (and probably am) wrong.

I'd be interested in seeing a mirror. I don't see how a mirror would put either player at a disadvantage, unless you're suggesting one player is buying and trashing expensive cards while neglecting to buy hunting partys while the other player just buys hunting partys. But I was able to do both.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 04:57:57 pm by AndrewisFTTW »
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
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liopoil

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2014, 05:00:57 pm »
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In a mirror there's really no reason to go out of your way to pump up forager because it will help you both the same amount.
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KingZog3

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2014, 05:58:05 pm »
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In a mirror there's really no reason to go out of your way to pump up forager because it will help you both the same amount.

It will help your opponent more because they won't need to spend time trashing stuff. They just build and buy VP without the in between step of trashing expensive cards.
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liopoil

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 06:01:06 pm »
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In a mirror there's really no reason to go out of your way to pump up forager because it will help you both the same amount.

It will help your opponent more because they won't need to spend time trashing stuff. They just build and buy VP without the in between step of trashing expensive cards.
Right, that's what I mean. There's no reason to do it because it doesn't accomplish anything and you could be building your deck instead. Huge opportunity cost.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2014, 06:13:58 pm »
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A mirror implies you're both following the same strategy. Neither person wants to buy and trash expensive cards if it benefits the other person and they're not doing it. So neither person does it, foragers aren't worth much, and this argument is moot.

But anyway, I don't remember us arguing about a mirror. I remember us arguing about whether or not a forager strategy is best on this board. And the questiion remains.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 06:19:06 pm by AndrewisFTTW »
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
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eHalcyon

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2014, 06:57:07 pm »
+2

If the plan is to pump Forager up to $6, it's usually not worth it.  If the plan is to use Forager for some non-terminal trashing, then that's cool. 
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KingZog3

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2014, 08:20:56 pm »
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A mirror implies you're both following the same strategy. Neither person wants to buy and trash expensive cards if it benefits the other person and they're not doing it. So neither person does it, foragers aren't worth much, and this argument is moot.

But anyway, I don't remember us arguing about a mirror. I remember us arguing about whether or not a forager strategy is best on this board. And the questiion remains.

My argument was that I should have played a strategy involving Hunting Party, and if I had your Forager strategy would have been silly. It only wasn't because I played badly and wasn't able to play Forager enough to benefit from the $6 forgers.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 10:31:38 am »
+1

A mirror implies you're both following the same strategy. Neither person wants to buy and trash expensive cards if it benefits the other person and they're not doing it. So neither person does it, foragers aren't worth much, and this argument is moot.

But anyway, I don't remember us arguing about a mirror. I remember us arguing about whether or not a forager strategy is best on this board. And the questiion remains.

My argument was that I should have played a strategy involving Hunting Party, and if I had your Forager strategy would have been silly. It only wasn't because I played badly and wasn't able to play Forager enough to benefit from the $6 forgers.

You might be right, I don't know. We decided to post this here to get some feedback on the best strategy on this specific board and all we've gotten is "most of the time". Does anybody have any input about this board specifically? Kingzog and I would love your opinions.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 10:32:52 am by AndrewisFTTW »
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
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KingZog3

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 10:34:11 am »
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A mirror implies you're both following the same strategy. Neither person wants to buy and trash expensive cards if it benefits the other person and they're not doing it. So neither person does it, foragers aren't worth much, and this argument is moot.

But anyway, I don't remember us arguing about a mirror. I remember us arguing about whether or not a forager strategy is best on this board. And the questiion remains.

My argument was that I should have played a strategy involving Hunting Party, and if I had your Forager strategy would have been silly. It only wasn't because I played badly and wasn't able to play Forager enough to benefit from the $6 forgers.

You might be right, I don't know. We decided to post this here to get some feedback on the best strategy on this specific board and all we've gotten is "most of the time". Does anybody have any input about this board specifically? Kingzog and I would love your opinions.

Yeah, that's true. Is it worth it here? I still say no :P but it did work out for him.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 10:36:45 am »
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We'll bake you cookies!
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-Stef-

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 11:12:47 am »
+3

Problem here is that you analyze the board, but this decision (am I going to buy stuff purely to boost foragers?) should depend on the game.
If at some point in the game you get to a state where you are much more likely then your opponent to play (multiple) foragers each turn, sure go ahead and power them up.

If I would play this set, I would probably also open Forager/Potion. Second stage would be to trash cards & get Hunting Parties. Stage 3 *could be* to start powering up the foragers if my opponent plays something like Adventurer-Fool's Gold (like your opponent was doing).

In short, I mostly agree to your gameplan, Andrew. However, I think you transform to "stage 3" a little bit too soon (you seem to do it on turn 4, although the silver may be good anyway). Your opponent is headed in the direction of a Fool's Gold deck, and thus won't play as many foragers as you can, but he isn't really committed yet. It would be a shame if he can still switch back to a strategy that *does* play a lot of foragers and then profit from your hard work. I really don't like the fool's gold you buy on turn 6. In stead, remove uniques now, and play your university as frequently as you can. At this point removing cards is much more important for your deck then getting a bit more $ every time you do play forager. You keep that curse (called Necropolis) around in your HP-deck along all game, breaking your stack almost every time you draw it.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: FTTW and I disagree on Forager
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2014, 11:48:21 am »
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Good point on taking it on a game by game basis instead of just making general statements about the board. I don't know why I kept that necro so long. Weird. I bought that silver because I wanted to rush HPs. I knew that FG was a crappy buy but I'm still not sure about my buy on turn 7. I had 5p and was really not sure whether to go HP or university.
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10
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