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[Robz888]

The best use I've found for Death Cart so far is as a partial answer to the other Looters.

Edit: Or when I want to gain oodles of actions fast, e.g. for vineyards, occasionally gardens, or just to empty a pile

I agree with these. Deathcart is not so good as an engine payday, unless you can Throne/King/or Procession it. You have to work a little too hard to fit it into the engine usually, I think. The Vineyard, Gardens, and pile-draining aspects are nice enough when they come up, though.

I've also found that it's a good card for when you and your opponent have both gone heavy greening, and you're in that situation where you just like need the last Province, or something. And your deck is terrible, and you have bad economic chances at getting it. Well, you can pick up Deathcart and hope. I think Deathcart is pretty good in this function as a last resort card. You occasionally see this with like Mandarin or Nomad Camp or something, but Deathcart is nicer, really.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I expect Death Cart to be pretty nice with shelters, since you can at least trash your Necropolis, if you miss the ruins. I haven't played it enough to be clear about this, though.

Chances of missing the ruins is roughly 50% in non-shelter-games.
Chances of missing the ruins and the necropolis is roughly 33%.

(Assuming turn 3/4 with Death Cart and 2 opening buys one of which is DC)

I don't think you're accounting for the fact that Death Cart balloons your deck to 14 cards, so there's a 4/14 (28.6%) chance that Death Cart, and whatever you buy with it miss the turn 4 shuffle. And then (assuming you buy something and don't trash anything on turn 3 and 4) you don't shuffle again until turn 7. Maybe Death Cart + trasher has some hope to speed up this cycling, but otherwise, there's really nothing fast about it.

[Alexmf]

I've also found that it's a good card for when you and your opponent have both gone heavy greening, and you're in that situation where you just like need the last Province, or something. And your deck is terrible, and you have bad economic chances at getting it. Well, you can pick up Deathcart and hope. I think Deathcart is pretty good in this function as a last resort card. You occasionally see this with like Mandarin or Nomad Camp or something, but Deathcart is nicer, really.

I have wondered a few times about that, but I'm still not sure whether it is.

I have also tried getting an early DC for a big masterpiece quite early in the game, not sure how effective that is.

[Qvist]

Part 3

[HiveMindEmulator]

I'm shocked at how much Silk Road dropped. What's the cause of this? I guess rushes are worse with Shelters, but the main use as an extra pile of Duchies+ remains as strong as ever if not stronger with increasing engine and mega-turn possibilities.

[silverspawn]

okay, forget treasure map, procession is the most underrated card here. i understand why, it's hard to use correctly, maybe the most difficult to use card in the game, but it can also be the strongest card in the game. without this card you could never emtpy the supply in 4 turns, and while that doesn't happen in real games, it can still be insanely good.

[brokoli]

I agree that silk road is underrated, but I decided to not care anymore about victory cards because they are always too low.

Mining village is the one that shock me here. Actually I think mining village should be close to farming and worker's village, because their powers are comparable. If both mining and worker's are in the kingdom, you probably want both because you really don't need 6 +buy every turn, except edge cases like three piling on estates. And mining village is really better than fortress. I don't know the percentage of games where fortress is just a $4 village, but it is probably very high.

Otherwise I'm glad to see remodel higher.

[KingZog3]

I agree that silk road is underrated, but I decided to not care anymore about victory cards because they are always too low.

Mining village is the one that shock me here. Actually I think mining village should be close to farming and worker's village, because their powers are comparable. If both mining and worker's are in the kingdom, you probably want both because you really don't need 6 +buy every turn, except edge cases like three piling on estates. And mining village is really better than fortress. I don't know the percentage of games where fortress is just a $4 village, but it is probably very high.

Otherwise I'm glad to see remodel higher.

Actually I think Fortress is much better than Mining. Not only is it amazing with TfB, but even regular trashers no longer take up space in your deck. That Junk Dealer is now a Peddler, Forager isn't dead, Masq is +2 cards. It just makes transitioning out of trashing super easy with no tempo lost.

[Tables]

I agree that silk road is underrated, but I decided to not care anymore about victory cards because they are always too low.

Mining village is the one that shock me here. Actually I think mining village should be close to farming and worker's village, because their powers are comparable. If both mining and worker's are in the kingdom, you probably want both because you really don't need 6 +buy every turn, except edge cases like three piling on estates. And mining village is really better than fortress. I don't know the percentage of games where fortress is just a $4 village, but it is probably very high.

Otherwise I'm glad to see remodel higher.

Actually I think Fortress is much better than Mining. Not only is it amazing with TfB, but even regular trashers no longer take up space in your deck. That Junk Dealer is now a Peddler, Forager isn't dead, Masq is +2 cards. It just makes transitioning out of trashing super easy with no tempo lost.

Because trashing a fortress from your hand is so much stronger than choosing not to trash ? But yeah, Fortress is probably just a $4 village a decent amount of the time, but the times it can do it's thing, it's often really good - and I'd say it does its thing fairly often as well. Being a village even means you can play one Fortress to get an extra action, do T4B stuff on the second Fortress, then play that one, ensuring it isn't even dead in your hand. Of course requires two Fortresses to line up so not always possible.

[KingZog3]

I agree that silk road is underrated, but I decided to not care anymore about victory cards because they are always too low.

Mining village is the one that shock me here. Actually I think mining village should be close to farming and worker's village, because their powers are comparable. If both mining and worker's are in the kingdom, you probably want both because you really don't need 6 +buy every turn, except edge cases like three piling on estates. And mining village is really better than fortress. I don't know the percentage of games where fortress is just a $4 village, but it is probably very high.

Otherwise I'm glad to see remodel higher.

Actually I think Fortress is much better than Mining. Not only is it amazing with TfB, but even regular trashers no longer take up space in your deck. That Junk Dealer is now a Peddler, Forager isn't dead, Masq is +2 cards. It just makes transitioning out of trashing super easy with no tempo lost.

Because trashing a fortress from your hand is so much stronger than choosing not to trash ? But yeah, Fortress is probably just a $4 village a decent amount of the time, but the times it can do it's thing, it's often really good - and I'd say it does its thing fairly often as well. Being a village even means you can play one Fortress to get an extra action, do T4B stuff on the second Fortress, then play that one, ensuring it isn't even dead in your hand. Of course requires two Fortresses to line up so not always possible.

Right, that was totally silly, lol. But the other examples are good!

[scott_pilgrim]

Actually I think mining village should be close to farming and worker's village, because their powers are comparable. If both mining and worker's are in the kingdom, you probably want both because you really don't need 6 +buy every turn, except edge cases like three piling on estates.

This is a really bad way of evaluating a card's strength.  Most boards won't have both Worker's Village and Mining Village, so that should have very little impact on how you evaluate them.  On boards with only one of WV and MV, WV is a lot more likely to make a difference than MV.  Or to put it another way, if we play a bunch of games of Dominion with 9 random kingdom cards each time, and then I'm allowed to buy WV and you're allowed to buy MV (and we ignore the weird rule cases that probably come up), I will win a lot more than you.  That may not be the perfect measure of a card's strength, but it's a lot more accurate than just looking at the cases where both come up together.  You wouldn't say that Smithy is roughly equal in strength to Village just because when they come up together you get a roughly equal number of each.

Both +actions and +buy are super important for engines, and Worker's Village gives you both in one card.  I don't know how powerful the +$2 on Mining Village is, I still don't really understand that card, but it seems to me like it's a lot less important than the +buy on WV, since +coin is not really a critical aspect of the engine (money is always at least available in the form of treasures anyway, whereas +buy is not necessarily available).

[Robz888]

I'm shocked at how much Silk Road dropped. What's the cause of this? I guess rushes are worse with Shelters, but the main use as an extra pile of Duchies+ remains as strong as ever if not stronger with increasing engine and mega-turn possibilities.

I'm actually not that shocked. I use to think Silk Roads were just as good as Gardens or better. I'm not so sure anymore. I mean, in the strict comparison to Gardens, Silk Roads is one card that actually really suffered with the introduction of Dark Ages. Shelters, yeah, but also Beggar is one of the best Garden enablers, and does nothing for Silk Road.

I understand that alt-VP is good for engines, but I don't know if Silk Roads is the right kind of alt-VP. You actually have to have a lot of Green cards to make them worth Duchies! And nowadays, we're often looking at engines that get a bunch of the Provinces, or somehow get a bunch of Province equivalents, like Fairgrounds and Vineyards under the right circumstances.

I think Silk Road now rightly occupies a middle ground between a typically unusable alt-VP strategy of Feodum, and the superior alt-VP strategy of Gardens.

[Qvist]

Part 4

[Robz888]

Man, the $4 cards are just Dominion's weakest group by a mile.

[Robz888]

As far as the rankings go, this looks fine to me. Although maybe Quarry and Ironworks are still being underrated a bit? I know WW put Quarry ahead of Sea Hag, which seemed a bit dramatic to me, but obviously they should probably be in sort of close proximity, and yet I have a felling we won't see the Hag for a while yet.

[Alexmf]

Really surprised that Gardens also dropped so low. It quite often defines the strategy on a board and in other situations it's still usually a nice pickup toward the end of the game. I ranked Gardens a lot higher, on #10.

The rise of Scavenger is well deserved, in my opinion. I'm still not sure how strong that card really is, but my estimate of this card has steadily increased.

Interesting to see Quarry and Ironworks move up so much - they are "old" cards, after all.

[Tables]

Ironworks is pushing the top third of the $4s? That's pretty impressive. I feel more and more reading these lists like I don't really know Dominion any more...

[dominator 123]

Interesting to see very big changes in ranking his year. (And not just one, but FOUR changes>10, and about 8(?) rank changes of 5-10)

[brokoli]

I prefer the rank of last year for moneylender. It's probably the card that suffered the most of the expansions.
Scavenger deserves its rank. Such a good card…

[Qvist]

Part 5

[Eevee]

I'd say bishop is way too high. I also think it's noteworthy how far the villages are from each other.

[KingZog3]

Herald is not high enough. For sure it's 15. It's better than Ironmonger by a long shot.

[GeoLib]

I'd say bishop is way too high. I also think it's noteworthy how far the villages are from each other.

The villages are almost certainly too far apart. I think because they're all so similar and vanilla, people focus too much on their extra ability. The main purpose is still the village though, and they should be clumped a lot tighter.

[Robz888]

Part 5 is a disaster.

Herald is not high enough. For sure it's 15. It's better than Ironmonger by a long shot.

I don't know if that's true (mainly the "by a long shot" part), but for sure Herald is too low.

Smithy is overranked! It's outmoded by so many superior drawing cards.

Caravan is NOT better than Throne Room.

Bishop and Marauder ahead of Conspirator and Plaza? Hardly.

[KingZog3]

Part 5 is a disaster.

Herald is not high enough. For sure it's 15. It's better than Ironmonger by a long shot.

I don't know if that's true (mainly the "by a long shot" part), but for sure Herald is too low.

Ok, not by a long shot. And I meant to say top 15. I would put it in the top 10 though. It really good.