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Author Topic: YACI: a literal loan card.  (Read 2568 times)

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LibraryAdventurer

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YACI: a literal loan card.
« on: March 21, 2014, 11:01:02 pm »
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A more literal loan card:

Loan (b)
Cost $0.  Treasure.
Worth $-2. When you play this, trash it.
When you buy this, +$2 and +1 buy. You may not buy multiple loans in one turn.

BadAssMutha

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2014, 01:33:08 am »
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Endgame-warping potential! There's no downside to buying one in the last few turns, so long as you never draw it. Buy the last Province for $6 and suffer no consequences.

Also, opening-warping potential. Open with a $5/$6 hand to pick up some excellent trashers like Upgrade or Altar, and you shouldn't have too much trouble shirking on your loan repayment.

A -$2 penalty really hurts, especially since it's already a dead card. The dead card alone is usually a $1-$2 hole, and this makes it much worse. I think I'd usually prefer to hang onto it instead of taking the penalty, so long as it's past the middle of the game.

Here's an interesting idea - how about the player with the most unpaid loans at the end of the game gets a VP penalty, like -3VP? This might help prevent the last player from just sniping the last Province for $6 with the only loan buy.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 01:38:59 am »
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I was considering have it also be worth -1VP like a curse which should fix those problems. Then maybe I could make it $-1 ?

HiveMindEmulator

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2014, 02:14:24 am »
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This is too absurdly powerful, and -1VP isn't going to fix it. The problem is that there's almost no downside. You have to take on a junk card in order to get a card $2 out of your reach. That $2 of extra reach is extremely powerful in the early game, and there's no enforcement that you pay back the loan in a timely manner or ever. There's also no interest on the loan, and you need no collateral or credit history. This is not really like a loan at all. It's more like free money immediately when you want it.

You probably need some sort of tokens on a mat to count turns or shuffles or something.
Say, when you buy this, put 2 tokens on the mat. Whenever you shuffle, if there are tokens on the mat, add 1 for every 2 tokens (rounded down). When you play this, remove 3 tokens from the mat, -$3. If there are no tokens left, trash it. At the end of the game, tokens are worth -1VP each.
This seems too complicated to be worth it, but the card as is doesn't really have a chance at working without a major rework.

This is probably why the Loan card that got published is nothing like a loan. It's just not a mechanic that works well in this kind of game.
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Marcory

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2014, 02:15:20 am »
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This card is super over-powered in the opening and endgame. After all, who cares if you get a useless card in your deck if you can open Mountebank/Gold, or Cultist/Cultist? And who cares about getting a junk card if it lets you get a free+buy and +$2 in the endgame?

This has most of the problems of the much-maligned 'Get coins/curse yourself' type cards--sometimes there's no downside to the penalty.

One way to nerf this might be to have it give the other players a coin token. So it would now read,


'Loanshark'

Treasure
$0*

'When you play or buy this, +$2, +1 buy and return this to the supply. Each other player gains a coin token.'
_______
You may only gain one Loanshark per turn.


I worded it this way so that it can be used if you gain it by some means other than buying, and so that it can work with Counterfeit.

This nerf is stronger than having you take a curse (which may not exist) or a copper (which won't matter in the end game), but it still might not be enough to keep this card from being OP.
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Julle

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2014, 12:28:46 pm »
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...but it still might not be enough to keep this card from being OP.
I know what you meant with this but it also looked like 0P which gave me an idea:

'Loanshark'

Action-Victory
$0P

+1 Action
Take 1 coin token
Worth +1 VP
-______
When you buy this, +2$, buy

This has almost nothingto do with the original card but at least you can't buy this in first two turns (exluding edge cases). Also, it comboes with trasmute (and scout!).
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 12:51:06 pm by Julle »
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silverspawn

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2014, 02:31:00 pm »
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powerlevel aside this

Quote
'When you play or buy this, +$2, +1 buy and return this to the supply. Each other player gains a coin token.'

is impossible, you can't return the card to the supply when you buy it, because you haven't gained it yet. i think you meant to say "when you buy this, don't gain it, when you play this, return it to the supply"

and its also completely broken
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2014, 07:14:07 pm »
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ok, that version was bad. let's see if I can salvage the idea:

Loan
cost $2 - Treasure - Victory
You may add up to two tokens to your loan mat or remove one. If you remove a token, this is worth $0. Otherwise, this is worth $1 + the number of tokens you added.
At the end of the game, -1VP for every token on your loan mat beyond the first, even if this is no longer in your deck.

thespaceinvader

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2014, 10:17:30 am »
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A more literal loan card:

Loan (b)
Cost $0.  Treasure.
Worth $-2. When you play this, trash it.
When you buy this, +$2 and +1 buy. You may not buy multiple loans in one turn.
As written, why would you ever play the card (unless you were in a position where you had $2 more than you needed and actuallly could trash it without penalty?  There's nothing to force you to, and better to have a dead card than negative money.  Unless you put some form of clause on Loan forcing it to be played when in hand during the buy phase, and forcing everyone to reveal their hand each turn, nobody would ever play one unless they could do it without the penalty mattering, at which point the penalty, isn't.

Maybe an interesting thing to do with the penalty would be to have Loans be worth exponential negative VP (i.e. each loan worth -1 per loan in your deck, like Gardens or whatever) and have you be able to play them as cantrip actions/0-value treasures, with a clause allowing you to 'buy' them during your buy phase to remove them from your deck for more than they cost initially - maybe also make them untrashable any other way.

Something like:

Mortgage
$2 Action- Loan
Worth -1VP per Loan card in your deck at the end of the game (Defining a new card type both to avoid confusion with the name and the type being the same, and to allow for potentially more cards sharing the type)
When you buy this, +$4 and +1 buy
+1 card, +1 action
Whilst this is in play, during your buy phase you may pay $5 and 1 buy to return this to the supply.  This card cannot be trashed.  If an effect would trash it, instead set it aside and place it in your discard pile during your next cleanup phase.

I dunno, it sounds like it has the potential to work with potentially some playtesting and rebalancing.  Useful effect, difficult to get rid of, very nasty consequences if you don't.  May need wording on how it interacts with cost-reducers and Contraband.

Another interesting option would be to trade in victory cards to pay it off - MY ESTATES ARE BEING REPOSSESSED!
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luser

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2014, 04:40:59 am »
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You could use duration to force repayment like following card:

Loan 3.0 action-duration 3$

+1 action
+5$

At start of your turn reveal you hand. Player on your right selects a card from your hand. Pass that card to player on your right.

Or add attack so other players could remind you to pay

Executor action-attack 4$

+2 cards

Each opponent discards a loan or reveals hand with no loans. For each discard loan gain a spoils place them to your hand.
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dfishman

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2014, 07:15:07 am »
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Loan (b)
Cost $0.  Treasure.
Worth $-2. When you play this, trash it.
When you buy this, +$2 and +1 buy. You may not buy multiple loans in one turn.
If you discard this during your turn (including during Clean-up), draw one fewer card in that turn's Clean-up phase.

Would need a rule clarification on whether you draw 4 cards or 5 in the Clean-up phase of the turn you buy it. I suspect the latter makes it too weak except on the last turn of the game and the former makes it too strong, but I'm not sure.
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Grujah

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2014, 09:28:48 am »
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Yet another card.. invention? initiative?


Edit: Oh.. IDEA.
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thespaceinvader

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2014, 10:48:55 am »
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Would need a rule clarification on whether you draw 4 cards or 5 in the Clean-up phase of the turn you buy it. I suspect the latter makes it too weak except on the last turn of the game and the former makes it too strong, but I'm not sure.
No it woudln't cards which you buy are added to your discard pile, but are not discarded.
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silverspawn

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Re: YACI: a literal loan card.
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2014, 12:06:08 pm »
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You could use duration to force repayment like following card:

Loan 3.0 action-duration 3$

+1 action
+5$

At start of your turn reveal you hand. Player on your right selects a card from your hand. Pass that card to player on your right.
that's awful in 3+ player
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