Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All

Author Topic: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread  (Read 16893 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jsh357

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2543
  • Shuffle iT Username: jsh357
  • Respect: +4241
    • View Profile
    • JSH Gaming: Original games
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2014, 09:57:16 pm »
+2

I will post game thoughts as I get these videos uploaded.  Was a doozy of a match.

jsh vs Psyduck

Round 1:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140319/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1395267390707.txt


This was a Black Market / Tactician / Vault game with no other Village.  There were a few sources of actions in the Black Market, so in all honesty whoever got them was likely to win this, though I'm sure I misplayed the game anyway.  Psyduck got the better stuff from the Black Market here, and was able to build up a significant lead that I could not come back against.

Round 2:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140319/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1395268649897.txt


Cultist/Stonemason game.  I go for Lighthouses early with Stonemason and manage to avoid getting any ruins.  This turns out to win the game for me, and I end up winning by one Estate on a crazy Stonemason pile-out.  Psyduck probably could have won by more aggressively trashing Cultists?  I dunno.

Round 3:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140319/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1395270050728.txt

I tried to amass Border Villages in order to Farmland them here, and am fuzzy on the details, but in short Psyduck played it better by getting more Upgrades.  I should not have Upgraded my Explorer.  The game was far from over at the point I did, and I could have gained much needed Gold.

Round 4:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140319/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1395271614727.txt

Ghost Ship might not have even made much difference on this board... honestly, Oracle is about as good on its own.  I aimed to get lots of Festivals/Cities and Oracles, while Psyduck focused more on the Cities and Ghost Ships.  In the end, I think my having more Buys and draw helped me win this.  I make a terrible misplay midway through this where I miscount my buys and stop playing actions.  Rrrrr.  Fortunately for me, I'm able to come back around in the end.

Round 5:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140319/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1395272293174.txt

Hag/Duchy game here.  I get a Counting House on the offchance it nets me a Province, but the game piles out before it comes in to play.  Sometimes you just gotta get the Duchies.

Round 6:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140319/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1395273132977.txt

If you're going to watch a video, this is probably the one.  I did not expect Masquerade to actually be a good draw option on this board, but to my surprise it was quite effective!  Psyduck appeared to have not expected it either.

This was a tough six games to play to a win.  That took all evening and now I need a nap.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 12:04:29 am by jsh357 »
Logged
Join the Dominion community Discord channel! Chat in text and voice; enter dumb tournaments; spy on top players!

https://discord.gg/2rDpJ4N

A Drowned Kernel

  • 2015 World Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • They can't all be the best personal text ever
  • Respect: +1930
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2014, 12:44:37 am »
0

Thanks for the match AHoppy!

Game One

Trashing and attacking from urchin and draw/sifting from Apothecary, plus some good draws from the Black Market deck make for a pretty killer engine. AHoppy embargoes the Apothecaries but I'm lucky enough to get a Watchtower early on, and his urchins don't collide until the very end of the game.

Game Two

We both end up skipping Familiar and embargoing it repeatedly. Forager isn't overwhemingly powerful trashing but it's enough for a highway/armory engine. He powers up forager by trashing a silver and a gold which I think ends up helping me a little more than he intended.

Game Three

Urchin/Mercenary again, this time on a board with no villages, but the discard attack is really nice with Governor. I'm lucky enough to use Doctor's reshuffle-triggering ability to make my Urchins collide quickly and then it's deck-thinning and Governoring to victory.

I feel like I got better than average draws this match. Thanks to AHoppy for the games, and for letting me stream. I'm going to try and edit the games and put them up on youtube sometime tomorrow night or friday.
Logged
The perfect engine
But it will never go off
Three piles are empty

twitch.tv/a_drowned_kernel

ragingduckd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • Respect: +3525
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2014, 02:00:16 am »
+8

Game 1 AI wins


Stef goes Remake into Grand Market, while I set up a Hermit-Bridge combo, which Stef hadn't seen before.  I'm ready on T15 and fire it off for 7 Provinces and a Duchy.  Is this combo already out there?  Stef didn't know it and I can't find an article on it.  If it's not, I'll write a mini-article on it.

Game 2 Stef wins


My Potion misses the shuffle and I fall behind on Familiars.  Stef's Familiars miss the shuffle and I end up only splitting curses 6-4, but I'm already in panic mode and I try to play for a fast 3-pile with the modest VP lead I got from my two early Provinces.  I can't do it in time though, and Stef's extra Monuments and Treasure carry the day.  I'd definitely have done better to stay calm and keep picking up Monuments and Squires for Silver.

Game 3 AI wins


Despite being second player, I hit $7 twice before Stef hits it once, winning the Minion split with Stonemason overbuys.  It's a mirror all the way through the game, but I've got a big edge from the extra Minions and the head start on trashing Copper.  A bunch of pseudo-money and two Stonemason plays gives me an fun but probably unnecessary 3-pile win on T13.

Game 4 Stef wins


I completely overlook Cartographer and just play Scavenger-BM with a little bit of Forager trashing.  It's tolerably close in the end, but I'm convinced that the Herald engine deserves to win at least 90% of the time.  The interesting question is whether the engine would still be best without Cartographer.  Stef thinks probably, I think Heralding Pearl Divers is a little iffy.  Thoughts?

Game 5 AI wins


It always breaks my heart to see King's Court and no +buy, but it rarely stops me from buying it.  I launch straight into the engine with Courtyard/Armory and start piling up WMs, FVs, and the like.  Stef, attempting to demonstrate that he can beat me no matter what strategy he plays, starts off Scavenger/Courtyard and then picks up another Scavenger and some Silver.

We both get to KC on T7, but while KC-Scavenger nearly guarantees Stef Province a turn, my engine top-decks almost as effectively and can simultaneously mess around with KC-Swindler and the like.  Stef resigns on T10.

Game 6 Stef wins


We both buy nothing but Silver and Cultists.  I get 2 Cultists, 8 Ruins to Stef's 7 Cultist, 2 Ruins.  I resign.  Stef sympathizes.


I'm quite pleased with my draw, of course, and even more so for actually deserving one or two of my wins.  It's always a pleasure to play with Stef, who is a surpisingly nice guy when you consider that he's almost certainly a 24th century robot, who was sent back in time to save humanity or something but got bored and decided to crush us all at Dominion instead.
Logged
Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

RTT

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 564
  • Respect: +532
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2014, 04:32:04 am »
+3

My Games vs. Bearskinrug. I streamed for the first time and i think i didnt play that concentrated so i did kind a bunch of missplays. Nevertheless a good series and highly intense games( especialy the last 2). Thans Baerskinrug for the games.

Game 1


Game 2


Game 3


Game 4


Game5


Game 6


Thanks to everyone watching live and all the comments in the chat.

Edit: fixed the links
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 09:07:49 am by RTT »
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2136
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2014, 09:03:52 am »
+1

@RTT
It appears you uploaded game 1 again instead of game 2.
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1644
  • Respect: +4139
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2014, 10:14:39 am »
+1

On AI vs. Stef

Game 1 - The Bridge/Hermit deck, do you think you had above average or regular luck picking up Bridges? I've never played the deck, it's an honest question. It seems like you could lose some turns with worse shuffles.

Game 4 - I'd think Swindler would be a lot better than Scavenger here. Though maybe not in a BM mirror. Since there's a green target at $4, I'd definitely want Swindlers against the engine. I'm also not convinced that Forager is worth it for the money deck, maybe it's worth it with Venture.
Logged

faust

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1924
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +2657
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2014, 10:30:40 am »
+1

My games against Lekkit. We had to restart the first game because I got kicked out - it was an interesting game where I went for a Native Village/Watchtower/Stonemason/Pirate Ship engine against his Big Money deck. Would have liked to see how that turned out.

Anyway, here are the games:

Game 1 - faust wins



Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Remodel, Throne Room, Band of Misfits, Butcher, Festival, Junk Dealer, Market, Mystic, Altar
There are lots of engine components, but no draw at all. I decide to go for more of a Butcher/BM deck with some support cards while he tries to build the engine. He always gets Mystic or other 5s over Gold, which I think is a mistake here, both because Gold is just stronger than Mystic here and because you can't butcher Mystic -> Province. The fact that I got the Altar first helped me as well.

Game 2 - faust wins



Code: [Select]
Farming Village, Herald, Moneylender, Catacombs, Cultist, Festival, Jester, Venture, Possession, King's Court
Cultist is obviously the most important card here. But it's not just Cultist/BM. This time the game develops the other way round - I go for the engine, while he does something more BM-like. It's a good thing that Herald actually doesn't really mind Ruins. My deck starts slower than Lekkit's and he is ahead for quite a while, having me worried because piles are running due to my jestering. But then my engine kicks off and I get a triple-Province turn, and can end the game with a lead the turn after that.

Game 3 - Lekkit wins



Code: [Select]
Cellar, Doctor, Armory, Herald, Nomad Camp, Remodel, Scout, Silk Road, Treasure Map, Worker's Village
A quite weak board. There's Silk Road, but the only gainer is Armory, and Armory/Silk Road sucks. The most important card is actually Treasure Map, with Herald and Armory helping to connect them. Lekkit goes for that more aggressively, and is rewarded with an earlier connection, and I'm never able to catch up.

Game 4 - faust wins



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Embargo, Woodcutter, Bridge, Caravan, Nomad Camp, Smithy, Merchant Guild, Royal Seal, Torturer
Not much to do here without +actions. I go simple Courtyard/BM (I get Courtyard over Smithy, is that the correct play?), while he goes for lots of Caravans and Merchant Guild. Not really sure why he went for that, you rarely want +buy here and you can only play one Merchant Guild per turn. A boring last game wins the match for me.

Thanks for the match, Lekkit, and good luck for the rest of the tournament!
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

AHoppy

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 978
  • Respect: +527
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2014, 12:09:49 pm »
+1

Thanks for the match AHoppy!

Game One

Trashing and attacking from urchin and draw/sifting from Apothecary, plus some good draws from the Black Market deck make for a pretty killer engine. AHoppy embargoes the Apothecaries but I'm lucky enough to get a Watchtower early on, and his urchins don't collide until the very end of the game.

Game Two

We both end up skipping Familiar and embargoing it repeatedly. Forager isn't overwhemingly powerful trashing but it's enough for a highway/armory engine. He powers up forager by trashing a silver and a gold which I think ends up helping me a little more than he intended.

Game Three

Urchin/Mercenary again, this time on a board with no villages, but the discard attack is really nice with Governor. I'm lucky enough to use Doctor's reshuffle-triggering ability to make my Urchins collide quickly and then it's deck-thinning and Governoring to victory.

I feel like I got better than average draws this match. Thanks to AHoppy for the games, and for letting me stream. I'm going to try and edit the games and put them up on youtube sometime tomorrow night or friday.
Thank you A Drowned Kernel
I had a lot of fun with these games too.  Game 1 is really the only game where I don't understand what went wrong there... Seemed like all the cards you were able to pull out of the BM deck were great for your engine, but maybe that's because the apothecaries helped you play BM more often.  It was very frustrating that my urchins weren't colliding until the very end, but I don't think that was my biggest mistake there...

Game 2:  I trashed the silver and the gold because forager really was my only source of income.  I didn't have nearly the highways you had.  I remember looking at this board and thinking "armory would be an OK open, I mean, I need foragers and wishing wells, but I don't really need that many of them."  Not remembering that highway doesn't just work well with +buy, but is also great with gainers like armory...  I think this game was over for me turn 5 when you played highway-armory for another highway.

Game 3: I missed the discarding working well with governor until you did it and by the time I grabbed my urchin it was too late.  My doctor buy was a big mistake.... I ended up with a 4-2 which kinda sucked. 

Overall though, even with your slightly better than average draws, you still definitely outplayed me.  Thanks for the games, and hopefully we can play again sometime!

TheMirrorMan

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 187
  • Respect: +124
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2014, 01:30:49 pm »
0

Stef goes Remake into Grand Market, while I set up a Hermit-Bridge combo, which Stef hadn't seen before.  I'm ready on T15 and fire it off for 7 Provinces and a Duchy.  Is this combo already out there?  Stef didn't know it and I can't find an article on it.  If it's not, I'll write a mini-article on it.

Silverspawn pulled a similar thing off against me :

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140228/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1393618990697.txt

I looked at it and discarded it - in a sense that you can only play one megaturn and lose all your madmen and then you're screwed.

Boy was I wrong.
Logged
Here comes the mirror man. Says he's a people fan.

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1742
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2014, 02:26:20 pm »
0

soulnet 3 - 0 hsiale

I don't really feel like commenting much, since they were not really interesting kingdoms, all BM with support and nothing else. I only feel I really played better in game 2. Game

game 1: (missing, will complete when it shows up in log search)
Fool's gold with Woodcutter, Candlestick Maker, Lab and Scavenger for support. I won because buying the only Candlestick Maker and probably some luck during greening. Hoarding coin tokens really helped winning, but it could have gone either way. I think that early Scavenger was a mistake and more CMs would have made it easier. I would like some comment from good players on this one, since I was not really confident whether Labs were a good investment for $6, even what to put on top with Scavenger (I did Lab and later Gold when the deck is too green, but maybe Gold from the start would have been better).

game 2: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140320/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1395338826162.txt
Doctor, Market Square, Menagerie, Cutpurse, Farming Village, Noble Brigand, Spy, Talisman, Journeyman, Trading Post
He opens $5 and goes all in with Doctor trashing. I add Market Square to gain golds, and that wins me the game because I can trash down and gain Golds really fast, there is no time to build an engine. Also, after trashing, Menagerie alone is a good enough "engine", but the greening comes so fast, I cannot really call this an engine.

game 3: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140320/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1395339421736.txt
Transmute, Beggar, Scrying Pool, Trade Route, Warehouse, Feast, Rats, Smithy, Journeyman, Tribute

Terminal draw BM. I started off worse and go for an extra Journeyman, which I think gives me the win. Felt pretty lucky on this one, being able to get good draws at the beginning of the greening stage, thus having PPR in my favor through all the endgame.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2372
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +3993
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2014, 02:55:26 pm »
+2




Game 1:



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Pearl Diver, Wishing Well, Alchemist, Baron, Cutpurse, Death Cart, Catacombs, Merchant Ship, Stables
With no villages around we both ignore Courtyard or Catacombs BM and go for a Stables stack with Baron as payload. He opens Baron/Wishing Well while I open Baron/Silver and grab Wishing Wells later. I get lucky and connect Baron with an Estate while he didn't and couldn't buy a Stables in the next shuffle. I get some very fortunate draws and can get double Stables in turn 8, Stables/Gold in turns 9 and 10 and win the Stables split 6/4. While being behind he grabs Death Cart which I'm not sure about if you really want it. Anyway, he takes the initiative in greening, but stalls pretty fast while I have 2 double Province turns. Then my deck falls totally apart with 2 dud hands in turn 16 and 17 where my Stables didn't find any Copper, but my lead was big enough.


Game 2:



Code: [Select]
Loan, Familiar, Armory, Ironmonger, Noble Brigand, Remake, Salvager, Band of Misfits, Knights, Mountebank
Mountebank is obviously a big deal, but there is good trashing in Remake, but unfortunately with Shelters. My opponent therefore ignores Remake and opens Double Silver while I open Remake/Silver. He obviously gets his Mountebank in turn 4 while I buy it in turn 5 with $7 what meant a dud hand in turn 6. He can buy a lot of Gold pretty fast while I try to thin and grab Ironmongers. What confused me was his Remake buy in turn 10, so he obviously changed his mind regarding trashing and got it later. I also buy 2 BOMs after Mountebank which are amazing here as you can use them as Remake, Salvager, Noble Brigand or Ironmonger. I totally ignored the Knights, thinking they are a trap here, but he gets Sir Destry in turn 12 which hit my Remake and later a Gold. I could block some Mountebanks and in my thinner deck I was able to play my Mountebanks more often which won me the Curse split in the end. I played BOM as Noble Brigand a couple of times, but got quite unlucky not finding one of his 5 Golds. He had already a 2 Province lead in turn 14, but my deck was stronger and could catch up pretty fast, taking the lead. He took the lead again buying the penultimate Province, but I got all the end game control with my BOM as Salvager and could buy the last Province for the win.


Game 3:



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Bridge, Coppersmith, Herald, Remodel, Bandit Camp, Butcher, Mine, Altar, Border Village
On this board is the obvious Remodel/Butcher + Border Village interaction, but with Herald as the only draw and no really good way to get rid of Coppers I didn't see the engine being strong. I was wrong. He goes for the Herald engine and with Border Village he gets a pretty high action density really fast. I play basically Butcher/Bandit Camp BM which was simply the wrong choice. After we both had 2 Provinces he uses Butcher to trade Border Villages for Provinces for a triple Province turn. I just concede and buy the last Province. I got outplayed here.


Game 4:



Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Pawn, Squire, Trade Route, Herald, Pirate Ship, Smithy, Golem, Harvest, Ill-Gotten Gains
Boring IGG rush here. We both open Smithy/Silver and go for it. My Smithy misses the shuffle while he could play it turn 3 and 4, so I was early way behind. Like expected I lose the Curse slit 6/4. But then I got lucky. I can grab a Province in turn 11, but he was then again in the lead after 2 duds in turn 13 and 14. But turn 15 gave me the second Province which was huge with 2 Duchies left. In the last turn he could buy his first Province, but I can pile out the Duchies for a lucky win.

Thanks BraveBear for the great games and good luck to you in the rest of this tournament.
Logged

BraveBear

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 107
  • Respect: +97
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2014, 03:22:36 pm »
+1

Thank you Qvist for the games!

Game 1.
What can I say I get really unlucky and missed connecting my baron with estate on the first shuffle.  When going for mirror in baron/stables getting that far behind that early was really bad for me.  What I should have done was maybe just gone CY-BM which I think was just as fast.

Game 2.
I got really outplayed here with BOM.  It had soo much end game control. The fact that my treasure was all at the bottom of my last shuffle isn't enough for me to blame luck.  Good job Qvist seeing how good BOM was there.

Game 3.
I think I got really lucky with my heralds on the last couple of turns, drawing a copper and hitting something, drawing a copper then hitting something.  I don't think BC was good here at all though.

Game 4.
I misplay here dramatically and bought the last IGG instead of a Province.  I think he gets pretty lucky by hitting Province while I hit 5 for what feels like forever.

Anyways you pretty much covered most of that Qvist, but I had to comment.

Thanks again for the matches and good luck in the rest of the tournament!
Logged

bearskinrug

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2014, 03:49:34 pm »
+1

My Games vs. Bearskinrug. I streamed for the first time and i think i didnt play that concentrated so i did kind a bunch of missplays. Nevertheless a good series and highly intense games( especialy the last 2). Thans Baerskinrug for the games.

Thanks to you, too, for a fun series of games.  It was interesting to watch all your videos and see your thinking from the other side of the game.  For what it's worth, my thoughts on the games:

GAME 1:  Swingy Cultist game.  I got a massive advantage w/ the Ruins split, and that was probably the biggest key to the game.  I think in the turn where you had 8 coins and two buys, you were probably better off going Province over double-Silk Road.  At least that would have me reconsider whether I wanted to follow you down the Silk Road path, which I was pretty sure my deck was better equipped to handle.

GAME 2:  I was worried about missing the Familiar, so I decided to skip it altogether.  I also have an irrational love of Masterpiece, so I try to utilize it more often than is likely practical.  By the end, I was cashing in on Masterpieces more to deny you the Silvers than anything else.  I am curious why you opted to buy a Trader over a Familiar with your early $4P hand.  My biggest concern was that I'd get cursed before I could get a critical mass of Silvers, and I feel like skipping that early Familiar probably was a mistake.

GAME 3:  I was totally outplayed here.  I was hoping to get something going where I'd be able to have a disappearing economy using Bandit Camps to generate Spoils which I would spend on my turn and leave you with nothing useful when you used Possession.  Unfortunately, either due to bad timing or not being smart/skilled enough, not only could I not pull that off, but the reverse became true -- I was making Spoils on my turns that you were spending when you used Possession.  I lost hope, possibly a bit prematurely, but I just couldn't afford a Possession of my own, you had a couple Provinces, a couple Possessions and a Butcher to chew up Provinces while generating coins, so it was a lost cause.

GAME 4:  I wish this game would have went longer just b/c I was interested in the card interplay.  Total rookie mistake on my part to forget about the Ruins pile.  Even when you bought an Estate in your second-to-last turn, I was puzzled by the move b/c I didn't see any likely 3-pile scenario.  You ended it just when I was about to have a big turn myself!  Well played, and a good reminder for me to keep an eye on the Ruins pile and to not reflexively play that Marauder under late game circumstances.

GAME 5:  Things never came together for me quite like I hoped they would.  I think your Sea Hag slowed me down in just the right ways, and in your commentary, you noted the flaws in using Steward for draw/coin -- it's an either/or proposition, so I wasn't creating as much virtual currency as I thought I would.  A few things I wish I'd done differently, but it was a fun game.

GAME 6:  Watching your commentary, I think it was a mistake to trash Coppers over Estates with the Junk Dealer.  With thin enough decks and enough money to expect regular Colony purchases, I don't think Silk Road was ever going to be a worthwhile thing in that game.  I wasn't sure about the Altar purchase early on since I primarily wanted it to gain an Iron Monger advantage, which was risky since I figured we'd both be targeting that card.  You went heavier on Tunnels than I would have and I got lucky that you hit $9 and bought a Platinum rather than the last Iron Monger.

Again, thanks for the games, and thanks for posting your gaming sessions.  Very interesting to watch, and I hope we can play again sometime.
Logged

ragingduckd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • Respect: +3525
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2014, 06:04:21 pm »
+1

Game 1 - The Bridge/Hermit deck, do you think you had above average or regular luck picking up Bridges? I've never played the deck, it's an honest question. It seems like you could lose some turns with worse shuffles.

Yes, I think I got lucky on the Bridges.  The plan has some flexibility though... like you can always swap a Madman for a couple of Bridges (Madman, Bridge, Hermit gaining Bridge, buy Bridge, etc), and you can also pick up 7 Provinces using 5 Bridges, 1 Hermit, and some cash.

But actually, I think this execution was slower than normal, since there wasn't any useful support (esp no $2-$3 villages).  My only two other Pro experiences with this strategy were both faster: T12 for 6 Provinces and T13 for an 8-Duchy 3-pile.

In the game with Stef I held out for all 7 Provinces because I wasn't under time pressure and I didn't want to have to worry about Duchies or 3-piling after I'd pulled the trigger.  I certainly wouldn't have been in a position to buy the last Province any time soon.

Quote
Game 4 - I'd think Swindler would be a lot better than Scavenger here. Though maybe not in a BM mirror. Since there's a green target at $4, I'd definitely want Swindlers against the engine. I'm also not convinced that Forager is worth it for the money deck, maybe it's worth it with Venture.

I think you're probably right about Forager.  I'm not sure that Swindler can do enough damage to the engine to warrant it's lesser speed.  I'm starting to get the feeling that Scavenger is a lot faster for BM than it looks.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 02:18:23 am by ragingduckd »
Logged
Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2136
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2014, 10:16:45 pm »
+1

markusin 2-4 secret tunnel

With videos. Gosh, it takes a long time to upload videos to YouTube, even after they've been converted to AVI.

Game 1:
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140320/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1395361176242.txt



This game had a lot of 1-card trashers. I think my opponent was hoping to trash a lot of squires, but I ended up buying most of the Minions before that could happen. I made a point of getting Butcher to help me on this front.

markusin 1-0 secret tunnel

Game 2:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140320/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1395361790616.txt



We both went for Jack here. I wanted to make the best of my 5/2 opening by getting an Apprentice, which I figured would work well with JoaT. My opponent had an early lead on Gold, but I got a second Jack while my opponent didn't. Close one.

markusin 2-0 secret tunnel

Game 3:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140320/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1395363582900.txt



The key engine components costed $5, and Familiar was on the board with Storeroom. Naturally, we both go for Familiar. Our transitions, however, we very different. I went for Apprentice trashing and Bandit Camps, while my opponent went for Hunting Parties. I feel like there were a lot of misplays on my part here.

markusin 2-1 secret tunnel

Game 4:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140320/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1395363582900.txt



This game...this game. We both went of double Tac/Vault. I figured you want to get either Steward or Spice Merchant for trashing, but not both. I managed to set my Double Tac off first, but I forgot to leave a card in hand to discard on turn 11! Arrrrgggg. I'm pretty sure I could have won the game if it weren't for that.

markusin 2-2 secret tunnel

Game 5:
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140320/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1395365254187.txt



This one my opponent started, even though GokoDom regulates that I should have started here (I was first player in game 1). However, the series was tied at 2-2 at this point, so we needed to play all 6 games no matter what. Therefore, I'd simply start game 6 and no harm would be done.

A Tournament game with a free Baker token. You can bet prizes will be coming into play here. My opponent is able to open Gold/Haven while I opt for double Tournament. I never feel all that good when I get a bunch of Tournaments, but I did so here anyway. My opponent's opening Gold seems to have a good early game booster, and I end up scrambling to trash stuff with Graverobber. Problem was, my opponent can use Graverobber too.

markusin 2-3 secret tunnel

Game 6:
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140320/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1395366322155.txt



Tournament shows itself once again, but here I felt the game was a lot more interesting due to the presence of Feodum and Silk Road, as well as Forge for fancy trash-for-benefit plays. I'm lucky enough to get the Trusty Steed to use for the Silver, but my opponent got Followers. It was really close in the end.



Overall, I enjoyed these games. Goodl uck with the rest of the tournament, secret tunnel.


« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 12:03:01 am by markusin »
Logged

amalloy

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 453
  • Respect: +615
    • View Profile
    • Twitch stream
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2014, 12:12:36 am »
+5

amalloy 3-0 jaybeez

I don't have a Youtube channel, but you can watch the match from my twitch archives; there are links to videos of individual games in this writeup as well.


Game 1 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Moat, Farming Village, Moneylender, Apprentice, Council Room, Counting House, Haggler, Trading Post, Altar
We both play to the general theme of Apprentice/Haggler with Council Room for +buy, but vary things up a bit. I get my Haggler first (figuring Moneylender will trash enough), and he his Apprentice, and I also get an Altar. He goes for Province sooner than I expected, and haggles Gold; I have to keep pace, even though my deck doesn't feel ready. Near the end I'm feeling quite uncomfortable as there are two provinces left and he's haggled so much Gold I'm sure he can buy them both given that he's drawn his deck. But he has only $15, and gets double Duchy. I'm quite proud of my last turn: I made a couple plays that I wouldn't have spotted before, so it's evidence that I'm still improving as a player. I remember that I had $14 last turn, so if I Altar into a Silver mid-turn, i can end it by buying both of the remaining Provinces. I commit to this strategy by Apprenticing my Province (this was my only real way to kick off the turn at all), and it comes through: I Altar my useless Courtyard into a Silver, draw it with Apprentice, and spend my $16. A very close game.

amalloy 1-0 jaybeez


Game 2 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Sage, Warehouse, Armory, Conspirator, Noble Brigand, Band of Misfits, Counterfeit, Cultist, Inn, Grand Market
I have a 5/2, and the useful-loking 5s are Cultist and Counterfeit. I muse for a while over how Cultist/- always seems to work really badly for me, but I go for it anyway. I get some quite lucky draws early on, and win the Ruins split 6-4. I buy some more money, and spike a couple early Provinces. This causes jaybeez to start buying Duchy and Estate, which I think is probably not right - my deck isn't much better than his, and he can get some Provinces if he builds a little more. I go back to building, knowing that I have a lead and his deck is getting worse while mine is getting better. I'm never in any real danger despite some questionable late-game decisions. This one was probably decided by the ruins split.

amalloy 2-0 jaybeez


Interlude
goko 1-0 amalloy+jaybeez

We start 13 games. I am first player in all of them. Odds of this happening by chance: 8192-1.


Game 3 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Native Village, Hermit, Oasis, Woodcutter, Militia, Talisman, Jester, Merchant Ship, Soothsayer, Stables
An engine looks like it's almost here, but the trashing is weak, and with Stables the only draw I think Militia makes the engine weaker than a money strategy. Plus Hermit and Soothsayer can both gain treasures, further supporting big money. I resolve to go for mostly money and avoid Stables, but I do wind up buying two of them, just because I have lots of terminals anyway and no $5 looks better. jaybeez buys a lot of Stables, and manages to play his Militia quite often. He also gets a lot of Native Villages. I don't understand why he wanted five of them - he doesn't have that many terminals, and there's no megaturn surprise like Bridge here. In the end it's a pretty close race for green, and we each have one dud turn at the end with only one Province left in the supply. But I make it to 8 first, ending the game - and with it, the match. Thanks jaybeez, and good luck in the rest of the tournament.

amalloy 3-0 jaybeez
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 04:25:31 pm by amalloy »
Logged

MarkowKette

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
  • Respect: +216
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2014, 09:13:55 am »
+1

amalloy 3-0 jaybeez

I don't have a Youtube channel, but you can watch the match from my twitch archives.


Game 1



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Moat, Farming Village, Moneylender, Apprentice, Council Room, Counting House, Haggler, Trading Post, Altar
We both play to the general theme of Apprentice/Haggler with Council Room for +buy, but vary things up a bit. I get my Haggler first (figuring Moneylender will trash enough), and he his Apprentice, and I also get an Altar. He goes for Province sooner than I expected, and haggles Gold; I have to keep pace, even though my deck doesn't feel ready. Near the end I'm feeling quite uncomfortable as there are two provinces left and he's haggled so much Gold I'm sure he can buy them both given that he's drawn his deck. But he has only $15, and gets double Duchy. I'm quite proud of my last turn: I made a couple plays that I wouldn't have spotted before, so it's evidence that I'm still improving as a player. I remember that I had $14 last turn, so if I Altar into a Silver mid-turn, i can end it by buying both of the remaining Provinces. I commit to this strategy by Apprenticing my Province (this was my only real way to kick off the turn at all), and it comes through: I Altar my useless Courtyard into a Silver, draw it with Apprentice, and spend my $16. A very close game.

amalloy 1-0 jaybeez


Game 2


Code: [Select]
Sage, Warehouse, Armory, Conspirator, Noble Brigand, Band of Misfits, Counterfeit, Cultist, Inn, Grand Market
I have a 5/2, and the useful-loking 5s are Cultist and Counterfeit. I muse for a while over how Cultist/- always seems to work really badly for me, but I go for it anyway. I get some quite lucky draws early on, and win the Ruins split 6-4. I buy some more money, and spike a couple early Provinces. This causes jaybeez to start buying Duchy and Estate, which I think is probably not right - my deck isn't much better than his, and he can get some Provinces if he builds a little more. I go back to building, knowing that I have a lead and his deck is getting worse while mine is getting better. I'm never in any real danger despite some questionable late-game decisions. This one was probably decided by the ruins split.

amalloy 2-0 jaybeez


Interlude
goko 1-0 amalloy+jaybeez

We start 13 games. I am first player in all of them. Odds of this happening by chance: 8192-1.


Game 3



Code: [Select]
Native Village, Hermit, Oasis, Woodcutter, Militia, Talisman, Jester, Merchant Ship, Soothsayer, Stables
An engine looks like it's almost here, but the trashing is weak, and with Stables the only draw I think Militia makes the engine weaker than a money strategy. Plus Hermit and Soothsayer can both gain treasures, further supporting big money. I resolve to go for mostly money and avoid Stables, but I do wind up buying two of them, just because I have lots of terminals anyway and no $5 looks better. jaybeez buys a lot of Stables, and manages to play his Militia quite often. He also gets a lot of Native Villages. I don't understand why he wanted five of them - he doesn't have that many terminals, and there's no megaturn surprise like Bridge here. In the end it's a pretty close race for green, and we each have one dud turn at the end with only one Province left in the supply. But I make it to 8 first, ending the game - and with it, the match. Thanks jaybeez, and good luck in the rest of the tournament.

amalloy 3-0 jaybeez

My comments on this match:

game1: i think it's a lot better to just gain a silver on your second to last turn on one of the two Haggler gains, makes it a bit more likely to get the double province as you can then afford to apprantice a province AND the Altar for draw. But you still pulled it off nicely so it wasn't as big of a mistake as i thought before i saw your last turn :)

game2: pretty flawless play until the ruins ran out. Then i think you messed around a bit too much with engine components and i think getting golds on 6 and 7 and one or two Counterfeits on 5 (maybe one or 2 Inn's if the timing is great) would be better.
The other option is to go for double counterfeit right away and get warehouses conspirators inn's and GM's but i think you are right when you say it seems a little bit too unstable and takes too long to really build. And even if it's not clear which of those would be better, going money is a lot safer as your opponent having lost the ruins split has even less chance to pull of the engine.

game 3: You are probably right that a stables engine is too weak here under the attack of militia. Jaybeez engine approach seemed even weaker than that to me with all the nv's and woodcutters. I wouldn't have ignored the Soothsayer as much as you two did as Golds are really important under Milita attacks and even though you can trash curses pretty well with hermit you won't be militia attacked on the turns he uses to trash those at least.

Overall pretty well played, i dont see any really major mistakes from you alan.

PS: i would have watched the match live if it wasn't getting that late for me.
Logged

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2785
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3792
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2014, 01:20:35 pm »
+1

Sorry I couldn't make it for your match, Alan; I'm watching it now. I was really hoping I could catch it live... maybe it was the time that caused you to not get many viewers? I'm finding that when I stream earlier in the day (Eastern time) I get a lot of viewers from Europe.

Game 1: Commentary here is spot-on, really nicely done. I don't think you should have been as afraid to build more, I thought his first Province was a little premature and building more when it's correct can sometimes be a better play than following when you don't feel like you were ready, but I like your early Haggler and you had a better deck. Well played.

Game 2: This looks to me like a board where Cultist/Counterfeit is best, and in Cultist+money games I like to say that if you want to buy anything that looks like fun, at all, you should just get a Silver or a Cultist instead (or in this case, maybe a Counterfeit). Your Inns and Warehouses didn't end up hurting you that much but it's definitely not my style to play that way. Again, your commentary is good here -- I think Cultist is more clearly a better opening than Counterfeit, mostly because the Ruins split is important.

Not Really Game 3: Very interesting board -- with Provinces I would have just gone with a ton of Swindlers, but with Colonies I would have gone for an Alchemist stack and Salvager/Rats as part of the payload. Looked like fun :)

Wow, impressive run to get the right start player. My record is 5 and you just destroyed it. Well played, sir. -- Lol RNGesus. Can I use that?

Game 3: Doesn't look super-interesting, but I wouldn't way that Stables isn't worth it with Militia around. The big question is to go for Soothsayer or not? I mean Hermit pretty much counters it but you want the Golds kinda bad.
Logged
I respond to PMs.

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2785
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3792
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2014, 01:21:13 pm »
0

Logged
I respond to PMs.

dethwing

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 30
  • Respect: +39
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2014, 01:25:33 pm »
+1

Sorry brah. I thought maybe if I didn't stream I might concentrate more and play better.
Logged

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2785
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3792
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2014, 01:47:01 pm »
0

Sorry brah. I thought maybe if I didn't stream I might concentrate more and play better.

Well don't let me poop on your parade, just win ALL the games.
Logged
I respond to PMs.

amalloy

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 453
  • Respect: +615
    • View Profile
    • Twitch stream
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2014, 01:58:53 pm »
+2

Sorry I couldn't make it for your match, Alan; I'm watching it now. I was really hoping I could catch it live... maybe it was the time that caused you to not get many viewers? I'm finding that when I stream earlier in the day (Eastern time) I get a lot of viewers from Europe.

Yes, I thought this might be it. I'll try to play my next match on a weekend so I can manage daytime, instead of pacific-evening, which is like way too late for the rest of the world. Still, I'm happy to get some post-hoc viewers.

Wow, impressive run to get the right start player. My record is 5 and you just destroyed it. Well played, sir. -- Lol RNGesus. Can I use that?

Help yourself. He's not my own invention: players of games like Hearthstone, Path of Exile, and Diablo pray to RNGesus regularly.
Logged

TheMirrorMan

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 187
  • Respect: +124
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2014, 07:45:43 pm »
+2

TheMirrorMan - Liopoil : 2,5 - 3,5.

Yes, 't was the night of the wrong shuffles. And the wrong choices, although I would stick with my plan in each of the games I think. It just ... didn't work.

Dominion is nerve wrecking, ladies and gentlemen. It's the kind of game where you would want to hurl your screen against the wall.

Thankfully I'm a calm guy <rage>Insert tons of swearwords here</end rage>.

Liopoil has an amazingly low pro ranking but plays very well. I think he just doesn't play that much online ?

Well, onto the games :

Game 1 : "Ruined by the curses" : TheMirrorMan begins, Liopoil wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140321/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1395437024382.txt



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Fool's Gold, Hamlet, Baron, Marauder, Moneylender, Sea Hag, Treasure Map, Cultist, Hunting Grounds
Heavy hitting, no trashing. 5/2 for me against 4/3 for Liopoil. Well I SHOULD be happy, I can get Cultist. Of course Liopoil picks up Sea Hag. The 2 ... Well, Fool's gold ? Maybe a better choice than my CY, but doubtful if your deck is going to be that slow. Liopoil takes the Silver and picks up a Marauder afterwards to even out the ruins.

What happens next is a back and forth of who's in the lead. Liopoil takes the win because of all the curses I was dealt. Not really what I was expecting, I thought my Cultists could outweigh that ...

Game 2 : "Greens folie" : Liopoil begins, TheMirrorMan wins

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140321/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1395437726291.txt



Code: [Select]
Great Hall, Warehouse, Baron, Feodum, Ironmonger, Taxman, Tournament, Bandit Camp, Rebuild, Tribute
This is a nice one, we start out with shelters and have hovel at $3.
Of course this is tricky - do you really want that Great Hall already with Tournament on the board ?
And then the second question : what next ? Can Rebuild beat the tournament stuff ? Probably so.
What do you get for $4 ? Taxman is an option, but seems immensely slow against the tournament.
Liopoil goes for tournament, I go for Ironmonger (given the harmony with Great Hall).
Next turn Liopoil goes for Rebuild and I follow suit. Then it's just a bit of a luck race and I won that one. The moment I pulled out the followers as a first prize, it was probably game over.

Game 3 : "One piece" - Liopoil begins, tie

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140321/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1395438636602.txt



Code: [Select]
Pawn, Masterpiece, Warehouse, Fortress, Trader, Treasure Map, Contraband, Mine, Border Village, Forge
You know that new Japanese show "One piece" ? Where they try to find a treasure and it goes on and on and on ? Well, that's the same feeling I had during this game.

I thought I read an article that Warehouse/Treasure Map is a strong combo. Well, to hell with my shuffle luck then, because I actually only get them at turn ... 8!

So yes, I open WH/TM and Liopoil opens Trader/Silver and suddenly halts at turn 3. Somehow I think he only then saw the combo, but then it's already too late. So he starts going ... MASTER piece (pun intended).

Again, I'm flabbergasted at what happens next - I am unable to draw > $8 until turn 13 when Liopoil is already at 3 provinces while I am at 1. I scramble everything together and am in the end relieved to get a tie out of this.

Did I really play this so horribly ?

Game 4 : "Say, did you hear the one about a Jack, a Governor and a Cultist ?" - TheMirrorMan begins, TheMirrorMan wins

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140321/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1395439412644.txt



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Courtyard, Pearl Diver, Secret Chamber, Baron, JackOfAllTrades, Count, Cultist, Governor, Laboratory
Again some interesting choices : Cultist or Governor ? What role does Lab play here ? Baron is out of the question with shelters ...

We both open 3/4. Liopoil goes Silver/Silver (indicating he's going for the Cultists) but with shelters, I like JoaT (works well with overgrown estate and necropolis). And effectively, I get $5 first and start stocking up cultists. I win the split 7/3. Then we both switch to Governor but ... This is also dangerous. If you remodel and your opponent has a cultist in hand, you're giving him a gold and +3 cards. So it's careful. Also, you can't trash the ruins because of Poor House ...

Although the VP chart doesn't show it too much, I was still very nervous this game of getting it right - in hindsight, I won both the ruins and governor split, so it should be okay ...

Game 5 : "I've never seen this before" - TheMirrorMan begins, Liopoil wins.



Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Native Village, Masquerade, Wishing Well, Herald, Quarry, Talisman, Counterfeit, Embassy, Laboratory
A nice one, although it didn't turn out so much for me. Note that this is a colony game. With, well, no actions for extra money.
Of course Counterfeit will help you with that. Which is what Liopoil does with his 5/2 (CF + Hamlet) vs. my 4/3 (Quarry + Masq).

So yeah, I'm thinking of picking up enough laboratories first, then go for CF ?

Then I see something happen I've never seen before. He picks up a talisman (is he going Herald ?) and then plays : Quarry, Talisman, CF+copper, copper. So let's see. Action cards cost $2 less, so Lab is now $3. He has six ... With a talisman. So four Labs go his way. Wow. Speechless.

After that, I start overdoing the Labs, drawing more than is necessary, forgetting the Counterfeit. I'm trailing all the way.

Dominion punishes me in the end by giving me the last hand : 2 estates, 1 province, 1 CF and one Masq. Only to get ... Hamlet + a green. But at that point I was already lost.

Game 6 : "Get smart ..." - Liopoil begins, Liopoil wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140321/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1395442225378.txt



Code: [Select]
University, Sage, Remake, Thief, Throne Room, Journeyman, Laboratory, Library, Trading Post, Witch
... with the sage in the university.

So I've gotten a liking for Sage. It skips your rubbish and helps you pick the more interesting cards out of your deck.

Of course you want that pesky witch here but how ?

Liopoil takes option 1 : Silver + Remake.
I go option 2 : Potion + Sage, since I also see Lab, Library and Trading post on the board.

Turn 3 ... $6 for him, witch is there.

But no worries, I get my University, gain the witch, play sage and ... voilą, curse returned.

It goes on a bit like that (he picks up a University on the way) and I feel I'm in the lead here (looking at the decks I should be). But I just can't find the Libraries in a good way or they collide. We both go for Throne Room after that and when I'm looking at the board ... Oh dear, three sages left and throne rooms running out. Nailbiting. I'm just up a few VP ... Now I'm equal ... Now I'm ... Goddammit, three-piled!

The only thing I can say for game 3 and 6 is ..... aaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

But to repeat : I think Liopoil is severely underrated. Watch out for this guy in the next rounds, he's going to do well :)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 08:36:31 pm by TheMirrorMan »
Logged
Here comes the mirror man. Says he's a people fan.

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2582
  • Respect: +2470
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom III: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2014, 08:20:22 pm »
0

Liopoil has an amazingly low pro ranking but plays very well. I think he just doesn't play that much online ?

Well, onto the games :

Game 1 : "Ruined by the curses" : TheMirrorMan begins, Liopoil wins.

Heavy hitting, no trashing. 5/2 for me against 4/3 for Liopoil. Well I SHOULD be happy, I can get Cultist. Of course Liopoil picks up Sea Hag. The 2 ... Well, Fool's gold ? Maybe a better choice than my CY, but doubtful if your deck is going to be that slow. Liopoil takes the Silver and picks up a Marauder afterwards to even out the ruins.

What happens next is a back and forth of who's in the lead. Liopoil takes the win because of all the curses I was dealt. Not really what I was expecting, I thought my Cultists could outweigh that ...

Game 2 : "Greens folie" : Liopoil begins, TheMirrorMan wins

This is a nice one, we start out with shelters and have hovel at $3.
Of course this is tricky - do you really want that Great Hall already with Tournament on the board ?
And then the second question : what next ? Can Rebuild beat the tournament stuff ? Probably so.
What do you get for $4 ? Taxman is an option, but seems immensely slow against the tournament.
Liopoil goes for tournament, I go for Ironmonger (given the harmony with Great Hall).
Next turn Liopoil goes for Rebuild and I follow suit. Then it's just a bit of a luck race and I won that one. The moment I pulled out the followers as a first prize, it was probably game over.

Game 3 : "One piece" - Liopoil begins, tie

You know that new Japanese show "One piece" ? Where they try to find a treasure and it goes on and on and on ? Well, that's the same feeling I had during this game.

I thought I read an article that Warehouse/Treasure Map is a strong combo. Well, to hell with my shuffle luck then, because I actually only get them at turn ... 8!

So yes, I open WH/TM and Liopoil opens Trader/Silver and suddenly halts at turn 3. Somehow I think he only then saw the combo, but then it's already too late. So he starts going ... MASTER piece (pun intended).

Again, I'm flabbergasted at what happens next - I am unable to draw > $8 until turn 13 when Liopoil is already at 3 provinces while I am at 1. I scramble everything together and am in the end relieved to get a tie out of this.

Did I really play this so horribly ?

Game 4 : "Say, did you here the one about a Jack, a Governor and a Cultist ?" - TheMirrorMan begins, TheMirrorMan wins

Again some interesting choices : Cultist or Governor ? What role does Lab play here ? Baron is out of the question with shelters ...

We both open 3/4. Liopoil goes Silver/Silver (indicating he's going for the Cultists) but with shelters, I like JoaT (works well with overgrown estate and necropolis). And effectively, I get $5 first and start stocking up cultists. I win the split 7/3. Then we both switch to Governor but ... This is also dangerous. If you remodel and your opponent has a cultist in hand, you're giving him a gold and +3 cards. So it's careful. Also, you can't trash the ruins because of Poor House ...

Although the VP chart doesn't show it too much, I was still very nervous this game of getting it right - in hindsight, I won both the ruins and governor split, so it should be okay ...

Game 5 : "I've never seen this before" - TheMirrorMan begins, Liopoil wins.

A nice one, although it didn't turn out so much for me. Note that this is a colony game. With, well, no actions for extra money.
Of course Counterfeit will help you with that. Which is what Liopoil does with his 5/2 (CF + Hamlet) vs. my 4/3 (Quarry + Masq).

So yeah, I'm thinking of picking up enough laboratories first, then go for CF ?

Then I see something happen I've never seen before. He picks up a talisman (is he going Herald ?) and then plays : Quarry, Talisman, CF+copper, copper. So let's see. Action cards cost $2 less, so Lab is now $3. He has six ... With a talisman. So four Labs go his way. Wow. Speechless.

After that, I start overdoing the Labs, drawing more than is necessary, forgetting the Counterfeit. I'm trailing all the way.

Dominion punishes me in the end by giving me the last hand : 2 estates, 1 province, 1 CF and one Masq. Only to get ... Hamlet + a green. But at that point I was already lost.

Game 6 : "Get smart ..." - Liopoil begins, Liopoil wins.

... with the sage in the university.

So I've gotten a liking for Sage. It skips your rubbish and helps you pick the more interesting cards out of your deck.

Of course you want that pesky witch here but how ?

Liopoil takes option 1 : Silver + Remake.
I go option 2 : Potion + Sage, since I also see Lab, Library and Trading post on the board.

Turn 3 ... $6 for him, witch is there.

But no worries, I get my University, gain the witch, play sage and ... voilą, curse returned.

It goes on a bit like that (he picks up a University on the way) and I feel I'm in the lead here (looking at the decks I should be). But I just can't find the Libraries in a good way or they collide. We both go for Throne Room after that and when I'm looking at the board ... Oh dear, three sages left and throne rooms running out. Nailbiting. I'm just up a few VP ... Now I'm equal ... Now I'm ... Goddammit, three-piled!

The only thing I can say for game 3 and 6 is ..... aaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

But to repeat : I think Liopoil is severely underrated. Watch out for this guy in the next rounds, he's going to do well :)
Yeah, my rating is so low because I can count the number of games I've played on goko besides for gokodom in the past several months on my fingers. My peak rating was around 5500 I think.

Game 1 I thought I was in big trouble from the start with all the cultists... I'm not sure what happened. Maybe you should have gotten a sea hag earlier?

Game 2 Ironmonger is better at the beginning for sure, that was a mistake on my part.

Game 3 Yeah, I totally missed warehouse-TM. Luckily trader-masterpiece wasn't too bad. It might even actually be better, I don't know... you were a bit unlucky to not hit the TMs until T8, but I also had a few poor hands with trader. I think the silver flood made me not stall as much when greening. I maybe should have started greening earlier. I was hoping to spike a $9 masterpiece relatively early, but that was probably too much to ask for.

Game 4 I went with the silver over jack for a better chance of getting a cultist, but since you got a T3 cultist by playing jack and drawing a 5th copper, your opening was better. I thought you had better luck in general this game, but I also misplayed a couple turns.

Game 5 was insane. The talisman was actually initially to pile up on all the cheap components (action density for herald), but with quarry it was even better, particularly on that one turn. My counterfeit was super helpful this game. Due to masquerade and counterfeit we both trashed a lot of our coppers and had a bit of an economy deficit. A couple times when he passed me a copper it was actually better than the hamlet I passed him. I was surprised that you opened with quarry... it didn't seem very good until you have +buy.

Game 6 You totally outplayed me, except for the last few turns where I'm pretty sure you could have taken steps to stop the 3-pile. A key turn for me was near the end Throne room-Remake trashing 2 curses, a copper, and potion --> duchy for +5 points.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All
 

Page created in 0.508 seconds with 21 queries.