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mcmcsalot

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Power Roles
« on: March 14, 2014, 11:09:49 am »

So I was bored and wanted to come up with some interesting power roles to discuss. I'm not sure if any of these exist or not just going off what comes to mind.

Empower - each night you may target a player and any night actions they would take now become an empowered version of that power. Examples of empowered actions are;
Cop: results of your copping will be revealed by the mod upon request
Doctor: now gives one shy bulletproof as well
Tracker/watcher: now gives an action history chronicling all actions from prior nights
Reloader: now gives more shots
Neighborizer: the mod will instead create a masonry
Vigilante: your shot becomes strongman
Those are just a few examples of what it could do

Shield generator - each night you may place a shield on a player which returns any actions that would target them to the player who originally used he action

Mail carrier - 3 times during the day you may send the mod a message to be sent to another player(hiding your identity but being sent from confirmed town or may send a message directly to another player but no confirmation of alignment, or hidden sender an alignment)

Live/death roles - obviously we have roles regulated by day/night and even/odd, but I love the idea of regulating roles by alive/dead for example;
Doctor: each night you will target a player to "medicate" upon death, all players who have been medicated will be protected for 2 night(upped to 2 to account for the potential that your targets die before you) the intent being instead of a chance to protect each night, you have no protection while alive but tons of protection after you die.
Cop: while alive you will receive no results of your coppings, upon death all of your results will be revealed to the town

Coward - upon death the mod will randomly chose another town player to take your place.

Hero - upon lynch of any player you may(or compulsive) chose to take that players place, their alignment will not be revealed. Potentially compulsive D2 or D3 Hero

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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2014, 11:13:02 am »

Inverter - reverse the effects of an action. Doctors kill, vigilantes protect, roleblockers grant strongman, mafia kills protect
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

faust

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2014, 07:54:20 am »

Some commentary:

Empower - each night you may target a player and any night actions they would take now become an empowered version of that power. Examples of empowered actions are;

Problem is, there is no general way of telling which power becomes which. Gets even more difficult to say if the roles he targets are already modified roles. I think this might work in open setups, in closed setups it's pretty random because you have no idea what it does. A "fixed" way of implementing this would be something in the style of Godfatherer, only for other passive abilities.

Quote
Shield generator - each night you may place a shield on a player which returns any actions that would target them to the player who originally used he action

So it's basically a Nexus-izer. I doubt that you would want to use this as town - yes it can reflect the kill to mafia, but it can also totally mess up town results.

Quote
Mail carrier - 3 times during the day you may send the mod a message to be sent to another player(hiding your identity but being sent from confirmed town or may send a message directly to another player but no confirmation of alignment, or hidden sender an alignment)

This role already exists as "Mailman". I had it in RMM11 and thought it was fun, but it's not very strong.

Quote
Live/death roles - obviously we have roles regulated by day/night and even/odd, but I love the idea of regulating roles by alive/dead for example;
Doctor: each night you will target a player to "medicate" upon death, all players who have been medicated will be protected for 2 night(upped to 2 to account for the potential that your targets die before you) the intent being instead of a chance to protect each night, you have no protection while alive but tons of protection after you die.
Cop: while alive you will receive no results of your coppings, upon death all of your results will be revealed to the town

The doctor thing might work out fine, though protection for two nights seems too much (if they live till say, N3, they can turn 3 players 2-shot BP, potentially leaving the mafia with no possible target). The Cop I'm less sure about, I think the whole fun of a Cop role is deciding when to claim your results. If results just get revealed anyway, all that subtlety goes away.

Quote
Coward - upon death the mod will randomly chose another town player to take your place.

Well, this is mostly negative utility for town because every time the coward (who is a VT otherwise) would die, there's a potential for a town PR to die instead.

Quote
Hero - upon lynch of any player you may(or compulsive) chose to take that players place, their alignment will not be revealed. Potentially compulsive D2 or D3 Hero

Making it compulsive might mess up LyLo situations, but I guess is fine in the first few days. If it's non-compulsive, I think it will hardly ever be used. The benefit is just too small. Maybe have the alignment of the saved played revealed anyway? That would make it stronger.
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faust

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2014, 07:56:51 am »

Inverter - reverse the effects of an action. Doctors kill, vigilantes protect, roleblockers grant strongman, mafia kills protect

But not all actions have a natural inverse action. This applies to investigative roles mainly, what happens to them? Also something like Hider/Commuter etc.
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yuma

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2014, 03:19:50 pm »

Doctor: each night you will target a player to "medicate" upon death, all players who have been medicated will be protected for 2 night(upped to 2 to account for the potential that your targets die before you) the intent being instead of a chance to protect each night, you have no protection while alive but tons of protection after you die.

I like this if I understand it correctly. Might have some potential to make it so that basicallythe whole town can't die if the doc is still alive and the town is small...

I had a role that I was toying with called "Physician" which was kinda similar.

Basically the role is a doctor that targeted players at night to stop NKs by performing surgery on them. However, if the Physician dies at any point in the game so would any players that he had saved in the past because he would no longer be able to give them their meds to keep them alive

In the end I rejected it as it could potentially cause 3+ players to die at once. It is kinda a mashup between doctor and one sided-lovers
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yuma

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2014, 03:22:39 pm »

Quote
Hero - upon lynch of any player you may(or compulsive) chose to take that players place, their alignment will not be revealed. Potentially compulsive D2 or D3 Hero

Making it compulsive might mess up LyLo situations, but I guess is fine in the first few days. If it's non-compulsive, I think it will hardly ever be used. The benefit is just too small. Maybe have the alignment of the saved played revealed anyway? That would make it stronger.

yeah I like faust's suggestion of allowing it after a player has flipped perhaps in either lynches or night kills. Making it compulsive is questionable... Roles that force a player to die by a certain day tend to create players who are less invested because they know they will just die.
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yuma

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 03:23:32 pm »

Inverter - reverse the effects of an action. Doctors kill, vigilantes protect, roleblockers grant strongman, mafia kills protect

This sounds fun too... I think it would be a strong SK role.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2014, 04:59:59 pm »

Doctor: each night you will target a player to "medicate" upon death, all players who have been medicated will be protected for 2 night(upped to 2 to account for the potential that your targets die before you) the intent being instead of a chance to protect each night, you have no protection while alive but tons of protection after you die.

I like this if I understand it correctly. Might have some potential to make it so that basicallythe whole town can't die if the doc is still alive and the town is small...

I had a role that I was toying with called "Physician" which was kinda similar.

Basically the role is a doctor that targeted players at night to stop NKs by performing surgery on them. However, if the Physician dies at any point in the game so would any players that he had saved in the past because he would no longer be able to give them their meds to keep them alive

In the end I rejected it as it could potentially cause 3+ players to die at once. It is kinda a mashup between doctor and one sided-lovers

Yea I like the idea of a "burst doctor" that in some way protects a whole bunch of people for one or two nights instead of just one person everynight, to balance I figured the longer the doctor lives the more people survive just like a normal doc and have the potential to shut out the doctor by killing his night targets instead of avoiding his night targets. Maybe instead of making the doctor die, just have it be a delayed doctor. So each night he target a player and gives them meds, these meds go into effect say night 3 or night 4(depending on size)
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2014, 05:02:18 pm »

Inverter - reverse the effects of an action. Doctors kill, vigilantes protect, roleblockers grant strongman, mafia kills protect

This sounds fun too... I think it would be a strong SK role.

I hadn't even thought of it as an sk power, this makes it actually helpful, you could make an sk and give them one shot inversion and one shot bus driving. So it would move all night actions one night and invert all actions the next, basically able to cause mass confusion
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

ashersky

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 01:05:29 am »

Quote
Hero - upon lynch of any player you may(or compulsive) chose to take that players place, their alignment will not be revealed. Potentially compulsive D2 or D3 Hero

Making it compulsive might mess up LyLo situations, but I guess is fine in the first few days. If it's non-compulsive, I think it will hardly ever be used. The benefit is just too small. Maybe have the alignment of the saved played revealed anyway? That would make it stronger.

yeah I like faust's suggestion of allowing it after a player has flipped perhaps in either lynches or night kills. Making it compulsive is questionable... Roles that force a player to die by a certain day tend to create players who are less invested because they know they will just die.

The problem with allowing a Hero to work after a flip is, well, hey that Cop just died on N3 and didn't give results so I'll Hero die for him and now he can!  That has a lot of potential for imbalance.
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yuma

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 09:24:06 am »

Quote
Hero - upon lynch of any player you may(or compulsive) chose to take that players place, their alignment will not be revealed. Potentially compulsive D2 or D3 Hero

Making it compulsive might mess up LyLo situations, but I guess is fine in the first few days. If it's non-compulsive, I think it will hardly ever be used. The benefit is just too small. Maybe have the alignment of the saved played revealed anyway? That would make it stronger.

yeah I like faust's suggestion of allowing it after a player has flipped perhaps in either lynches or night kills. Making it compulsive is questionable... Roles that force a player to die by a certain day tend to create players who are less invested because they know they will just die.

The problem with allowing a Hero to work after a flip is, well, hey that Cop just died on N3 and didn't give results so I'll Hero die for him and now he can!  That has a lot of potential for imbalance.

I agree, but I think there are ways to eliminate the imbalance. Strongman for example would stop Hero from occuring or other PRs which could be a 1-shot which says something like "if Hero--mafia would need to know Hero was in the game--stops this kill they will both die" or something. The imbalance I think could be experimented with but I like the premise especially for RMM games.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Power Roles
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 12:07:25 pm »

The other reason I don't like doing it post flip is it creates an ic, now in reality the hero power is a delayed ic creator. I want the power to be able to trade a vt for a pr but not make the saved player an ic as well. Maybe if the hero activated by choice on night kill. Like the hero could chose during the night whether to take the place of the nk(if one should exist) this would be cause the desired effect of the ability for the hero to save a potentially more important town player. The reveal would be that the hero took the place of the nk but not announce the original target.

After DW2 I realized powers that inadvertently create Ic's have a large amount of hidden power built in. This is why I wanted to get a discussion about pr's going.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)
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