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Author Topic: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Game Over : Mafia Wins !)  (Read 15160 times)

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Nik

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #275 on: March 29, 2014, 01:31:06 pm »

Ichi-Conspiracy theories? Post count? Seems scummy to me...

Why are those things scummy?

I see one as townie, one as null.

Conspiracy theories: town is paranoid. They hate being fooled. They think everyone is scum.
Post count: How in the world is this scummy? It's a well-established tool used by many (including me) to scumhunt. It's prone to manipulation, just like everything else, but caring about post count is a big fat null.
Hmm...if this is the case, then Unvote. Vote:Mcmcsalot
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mcmcsalot

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #276 on: March 29, 2014, 01:36:40 pm »

Why not I do what witherweaver did? (I still don't really know what to post... :()

Witherweaver-Town
DD-Definite town. I used to be unsure, but now he is absolutely town
Ichi-Conspiracy theories? Post count? Seems scummy to me...
ADK-Null
Mcmcsalot-Well, I voted for him, so, scum (I explained in my vote why)
Shraeye-null
Faust-Possibly scum
Voltaire-Null
Nik-SCUM SCUM SCUM! Lurking at the beginning, then saying "oh...well...I just don't know what to post..." Ha! Pure trickery! Nik, who are your scum partners?  :P

Hello conf!town, no way scum jokes about themselves like that.

Man, I wouldn't have thought to suspect Nik's joke until you posted this.  If this were true then it would be a great defense for scum, so it wouldn't be true. 

It almost makes me think you said this as an extremely subtle way to get people to suspect Nik.

No honestly, that's too much overthinking for scum. When scum goes to post they think I shouldn't say that, they do not want to stand out for any reason, a joke like that could bring unwanted suspicion.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

shraeye

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #277 on: March 29, 2014, 02:09:51 pm »

Shraeye recent attack on Adk still feels to me like he's trying to force lynches and make as many people look scummy as he can as opposed to lookin at interactions a simply trying to figure out if players are scummy or towny.
I'm interested in making exactly 2 people look scummy.  Becuase the scum team is 2.  And I'm trying to find them. 

So now I've picked 2.  And you're counter-attack is to say shraeye's trying to "make as many people look scummy as he can as opposed to lookin at interactions".

I literally found ADK scummy because of interactions.  The very interactions you just said I wasn't looking at.  You're spouting off generic ready-made reasons that I'm scummy and people should discredit me, and not even bothering to see if they're accurate.

Vote: mcmcsalot
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #278 on: March 29, 2014, 02:54:44 pm »

Ok. I'm back. Wow, much stronger scum read on ADK and mcmc.

I am interested by the people who decided to jump on the bandwagon of my "conspiracy theory", which is basically Nik sheeping ADK, and then changing his mind. Although I do admit that the self-aware "that scum!" joke is pretty townie.

I think it is also important to look at the way my behavior was first described by ADK as a "conspiracy theory" which is then a term that everyone else decides to use--creating a connotation with my behavior because of the label used to describe it--something I view as a blatant scum tactic. (I think I may have also used it, but my point still stands).

Reads:

scummy: faust, ADK, mcmc (I would be happy to lynch one of these today, and I think we should)

null: witherweaver, delirious deleuze

town: Volt, Shraeye, Nik?,

I won't be able to post a ton today, as I have heavy homework demands, but I am going to

vote: mcmc

That is L-2 I think. Nik voted for me, then revoted mcmc, and Shraeye's vote was already on mcmc.

Witherweaver

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #279 on: March 29, 2014, 02:57:46 pm »

Ok. I'm back. Wow, much stronger scum read on ADK and mcmc.

I am interested by the people who decided to jump on the bandwagon of my "conspiracy theory", which is basically Nik sheeping ADK, and then changing his mind. Although I do admit that the self-aware "that scum!" joke is pretty townie.

I think it is also important to look at the way my behavior was first described by ADK as a "conspiracy theory" which is then a term that everyone else decides to use--creating a connotation with my behavior because of the label used to describe it--something I view as a blatant scum tactic. (I think I may have also used it, but my point still stands).

Reads:

scummy: faust, ADK, mcmc (I would be happy to lynch one of these today, and I think we should)

null: witherweaver, delirious deleuze

town: Volt, Shraeye, Nik?,

I won't be able to post a ton today, as I have heavy homework demands, but I am going to

vote: mcmc

That is L-2 I think. Nik voted for me, then revoted mcmc, and Shraeye's vote was already on mcmc.

I'm pretty sure that's four votes against McMc, which would be L-1.
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Teproc

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #280 on: March 29, 2014, 02:58:03 pm »

Vote Count 1.8:

mcmcsalot (4): shraeye, Nik, Delirious Deleuze, Ichimaru Gin {L-1}
Ichimaru Gin (2): faust, A Drowned Kernel
shraeye (1): mcmcsalot
faust (1): Voltaire

Not Voting (1): Witherweaver

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 p.m. on April 1, 2014.

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Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #281 on: March 29, 2014, 02:58:47 pm »

In that case I will unvote

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #282 on: March 29, 2014, 03:06:48 pm »

Hmm. I must have missed counting delerious deleuze. I appreciate the correction though, as it did change my decision.

I don't think I'm ready to put mcmc at L-1 yet. I would like to hear more from him, which we haven't really heard much.

What is everyone's opinion on mcmc. I already know those who are voting for him, but what about the others: faust, ADK, witherweaver and Volt?

The most important thing I think, is what information will be garnered from his lynch? What will it tell us about the interactions he had with other people (Shraeye, defending Nik, etc). And what will it tell us about the people on his wagon?

We still have what, 2+ days?

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #283 on: March 29, 2014, 03:12:02 pm »

If we were to lynch either mcmc or ADK today, I would much rather lynch ADK.

shraeye

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #284 on: March 29, 2014, 03:38:18 pm »

Hmm. I must have missed counting delerious deleuze. I appreciate the correction though, as it did change my decision.

I don't think I'm ready to put mcmc at L-1 yet. I would like to hear more from him, which we haven't really heard much.

What is everyone's opinion on mcmc. I already know those who are voting for him, but what about the others: faust, ADK, witherweaver and Volt?

The most important thing I think, is what information will be garnered from his lynch? What will it tell us about the interactions he had with other people (Shraeye, defending Nik, etc). And what will it tell us about the people on his wagon?

We still have what, 2+ days?
What do you mean that we haven't heard much from mcmc?  There has been a lot that mcmc has said; you can go back and see the things he's been saying.  I don't see why this is the wrong time for L-1.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #285 on: March 29, 2014, 03:48:28 pm »

Hmm. I must have missed counting delerious deleuze. I appreciate the correction though, as it did change my decision.

I don't think I'm ready to put mcmc at L-1 yet. I would like to hear more from him, which we haven't really heard much.

What is everyone's opinion on mcmc. I already know those who are voting for him, but what about the others: faust, ADK, witherweaver and Volt?

The most important thing I think, is what information will be garnered from his lynch? What will it tell us about the interactions he had with other people (Shraeye, defending Nik, etc). And what will it tell us about the people on his wagon?

We still have what, 2+ days?
What do you mean that we haven't heard much from mcmc?  There has been a lot that mcmc has said; you can go back and see the things he's been saying.  I don't see why this is the wrong time for L-1.

Ok. I unvoted because I needed a little more time to consider things.

When I say we haven't heard a lot from mcmc, I mean him speaking in his own defense. For the last page or so, he's talked about other stuff, but I feel like he hasn't posted statements in his defense in a little while. But I see what you are saying.

Anyway, having done a more thorough reread, I would still prefer ADK I think, but I don't think that's going to happen. Mcmc is very scummy, and the large amount of interactions (many strong interactions) that he has had should give us a lot of information after his flip. Particularly about Shraeye.

back to vote: mcmc

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #286 on: March 29, 2014, 03:48:42 pm »

And this is L-1

Delirious Deleuze

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #287 on: March 29, 2014, 03:52:39 pm »

1. Nik - I get a  pretty bored townie read on him. Not a lot to comment on because he's been fairly inactive.
2. Witherweaver - I thought his questions where suspicious at first, but I'm getting a townie read on him now.
3. Delirious Deleuze - Definitely a town.
4. Ichimaru Gin - I think the case against me wasn't artificial, but that I was acting odd (because it was my first real post) and I think gin's response was genuine. I'm leaning townie.
5. mcmcsalot - I still feel very scummy here. I've posted above why. I still feel he's not really being responsive to anything we said about him eariler, or maybe it's just that I don't read his responses as true. I'm really leaning with Shraeye here. On top of that, Shraeye's form of questioning is made to force people to answer things, even if the questions aren't right. There answers give a lot away. It'd make sense that scum would start accusing the questioning shraeye to try to get him mislynched and then avoiding being discovered by shraeye's questions. I feel very scummy coming from MCMC, which is why my votes on him.
6. shraeye  - As above, I feel his questioning method is very townie and trying to get scum to reveal themselves through answers. I don't feel anything he did was really that scummy.
7. faust - null
8. Voltaire- null
9. ADK - I've noticed something weird, or at least I think I did. I've looked over his past posts, and his meta-paradigm or whatever usually is much more accusative or at the very least, he makes more new responses in other games.

In this game though, ADK has only been accusative when defending other players. He has never just argued someone is acting scummy, rather he sees someone else being accused of being scummy, defends them and while defending them says the other person is scummy. It happened when he defended me from Ichimaru Gin, it happened when Gin and I talked about the conspiracy. I think this behavior could be neutral (he really is trying to be safe and defend people) or maybe he's trying a new meta this game, but I definitely think it's suspicious and feels scummy to me.

In all,

Scummy: MCMC
Possible Scum: ADK, Ichimaru Gin,
Null: Faust, Voltaire
Townie: WW, DeDe, Nik, Shraeye

PPE 3: I don't agree that ADK is more scummy than MCMC but he's definitely fishy. Then again, I don't have a very large meta-knowledge here
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Witherweaver

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #288 on: March 29, 2014, 04:11:53 pm »

Okay, then, suppose we lynch McMc and it's revealed he's town.

How do we react to that?
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #289 on: March 29, 2014, 04:17:17 pm »

Okay, then, suppose we lynch McMc and it's revealed he's town.

How do we react to that?

I don't know if I'm the best person to answer this question, but generally town lynches town a fair amount--especially on earlier days.

Those on his wagon aren't inherently scummy if he flips town, but certain circumstances can make people look scummy. Such as joining the wagon late, voting without any real reasons--that sort of thing.

Even though town loses a member, it does two things: it decreases the size of the lynch pool, and it also gives us information because we can now analyze with the assurance of knowing his flip.

e.g. "now that we know that mcmc was town, it makes x look scummy because of something".

And similar information if he is scum. We can look at those who ignored his wagon, or joined it only when it looked inevitable.

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #290 on: March 29, 2014, 04:24:04 pm »

Okay, then, suppose we lynch McMc and it's revealed he's town.

How do we react to that?

I don't know if I'm the best person to answer this question, but generally town lynches town a fair amount--especially on earlier days.

Those on his wagon aren't inherently scummy if he flips town, but certain circumstances can make people look scummy. Such as joining the wagon late, voting without any real reasons--that sort of thing.

Even though town loses a member, it does two things: it decreases the size of the lynch pool, and it also gives us information because we can now analyze with the assurance of knowing his flip.

e.g. "now that we know that mcmc was town, it makes x look scummy because of something".

And similar information if he is scum. We can look at those who ignored his wagon, or joined it only when it looked inevitable.

Actually joining the wagon late is more scummy if mcmc flips scum, not town.

Witherweaver

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #291 on: March 29, 2014, 04:30:06 pm »

Okay, then, suppose we lynch McMc and it's revealed he's town.

How do we react to that?

I don't know if I'm the best person to answer this question, but generally town lynches town a fair amount--especially on earlier days.

Those on his wagon aren't inherently scummy if he flips town, but certain circumstances can make people look scummy. Such as joining the wagon late, voting without any real reasons--that sort of thing.

Even though town loses a member, it does two things: it decreases the size of the lynch pool, and it also gives us information because we can now analyze with the assurance of knowing his flip.

e.g. "now that we know that mcmc was town, it makes x look scummy because of something".

And similar information if he is scum. We can look at those who ignored his wagon, or joined it only when it looked inevitable.

Right, so I mean in this particular case.  Let's pretend I vote against him, he gets lynched and turns out to be town.  What would that make you think about everyone right now?
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #292 on: March 29, 2014, 04:36:56 pm »

Okay, then, suppose we lynch McMc and it's revealed he's town.

How do we react to that?

I don't know if I'm the best person to answer this question, but generally town lynches town a fair amount--especially on earlier days.

Those on his wagon aren't inherently scummy if he flips town, but certain circumstances can make people look scummy. Such as joining the wagon late, voting without any real reasons--that sort of thing.

Even though town loses a member, it does two things: it decreases the size of the lynch pool, and it also gives us information because we can now analyze with the assurance of knowing his flip.

e.g. "now that we know that mcmc was town, it makes x look scummy because of something".

And similar information if he is scum. We can look at those who ignored his wagon, or joined it only when it looked inevitable.

Right, so I mean in this particular case.  Let's pretend I vote against him, he gets lynched and turns out to be town.  What would that make you think about everyone right now?

Well if you hammered right now without giving him a chance to claim or anything, people would find it really scummy.

If, however, you hammered him after he had a chance to claim and he didn't claim PR and you still thought he was scum, and then he flipped town, people probably wouldn't find you scummy (I at least wouldn't). Like I said, town accidentally lynches town a lot.

I would find Shraeye maybe a little scummier. Probably a little stronger town read on Nik. Perhaps less of a scum-read on ADK since he so far hasn't really supported what could be a great mislynch. And not much of a changed opinion on everyone else.

So once mcmc has a chance to claim, then you're probably free to hammer if you want.

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #293 on: March 29, 2014, 04:39:33 pm »

Okay, then, suppose we lynch McMc and it's revealed he's town.

How do we react to that?

If mcmc is scum, then ADK deserves a good hard look.  I'm not sure he's at the auto-lynch level of obvious partner that I've seen before.  But he's very high.  If he's town, people need to be very careful of the background characters who opposed the lynch.  You'd be surprised how many scum are those who say "no...don't do it...." about a mislynch, but not seriously try to slow down the lynch or change it.  That is my favorite card to play as scum, because Day2 you can come out loudly against the people on the mislynch wagon and get a lot of traction/credit for it. faust fits this description 100%.

Definitely have a read through day 1 with the knowledge of any flips gained.  It's very helpful to know that a person was definitely scum, or definitely town.  I try to point out connections between players whenever possible, because I expect to typically be an early night-kill.  I used to keep those and try to wait for even more evidence before surprising scum later, but nothing frustrates like going to the grave with an unspoken idea.
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Witherweaver

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #294 on: March 29, 2014, 04:49:32 pm »

Okay, then, suppose we lynch McMc and it's revealed he's town.

How do we react to that?

I don't know if I'm the best person to answer this question, but generally town lynches town a fair amount--especially on earlier days.

Those on his wagon aren't inherently scummy if he flips town, but certain circumstances can make people look scummy. Such as joining the wagon late, voting without any real reasons--that sort of thing.

Even though town loses a member, it does two things: it decreases the size of the lynch pool, and it also gives us information because we can now analyze with the assurance of knowing his flip.

e.g. "now that we know that mcmc was town, it makes x look scummy because of something".

And similar information if he is scum. We can look at those who ignored his wagon, or joined it only when it looked inevitable.

Right, so I mean in this particular case.  Let's pretend I vote against him, he gets lynched and turns out to be town.  What would that make you think about everyone right now?

Well if you hammered right now without giving him a chance to claim or anything, people would find it really scummy.

If, however, you hammered him after he had a chance to claim and he didn't claim PR and you still thought he was scum, and then he flipped town, people probably wouldn't find you scummy (I at least wouldn't). Like I said, town accidentally lynches town a lot.

I would find Shraeye maybe a little scummier. Probably a little stronger town read on Nik. Perhaps less of a scum-read on ADK since he so far hasn't really supported what could be a great mislynch. And not much of a changed opinion on everyone else.

So once mcmc has a chance to claim, then you're probably free to hammer if you want.

I wasn't saying I wanted to hammer, I was just getting us in a hypothetical from which we could analyze. 

I agree that if this is a mislynch, then scum could get on it pretty easily without raising much suspicion.  Enough people have expressed distrust towards McMc that it's pretty safe to jump on.  So does that mean there would be scum on it?  For me it would make Shraeye more suspect, and you moreso.

But more what I wanted to get a feel of is: if McMc is a mislynch, will that give us good information for the future?   If so, we can be less wary about making a mistake.  If not, maybe it's worth looking elsewhere. 
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #295 on: March 29, 2014, 05:01:18 pm »

Okay, then, suppose we lynch McMc and it's revealed he's town.

How do we react to that?

I don't know if I'm the best person to answer this question, but generally town lynches town a fair amount--especially on earlier days.

Those on his wagon aren't inherently scummy if he flips town, but certain circumstances can make people look scummy. Such as joining the wagon late, voting without any real reasons--that sort of thing.

Even though town loses a member, it does two things: it decreases the size of the lynch pool, and it also gives us information because we can now analyze with the assurance of knowing his flip.

e.g. "now that we know that mcmc was town, it makes x look scummy because of something".

And similar information if he is scum. We can look at those who ignored his wagon, or joined it only when it looked inevitable.

Right, so I mean in this particular case.  Let's pretend I vote against him, he gets lynched and turns out to be town.  What would that make you think about everyone right now?

Well if you hammered right now without giving him a chance to claim or anything, people would find it really scummy.

If, however, you hammered him after he had a chance to claim and he didn't claim PR and you still thought he was scum, and then he flipped town, people probably wouldn't find you scummy (I at least wouldn't). Like I said, town accidentally lynches town a lot.

I would find Shraeye maybe a little scummier. Probably a little stronger town read on Nik. Perhaps less of a scum-read on ADK since he so far hasn't really supported what could be a great mislynch. And not much of a changed opinion on everyone else.

So once mcmc has a chance to claim, then you're probably free to hammer if you want.

I wasn't saying I wanted to hammer, I was just getting us in a hypothetical from which we could analyze. 

I agree that if this is a mislynch, then scum could get on it pretty easily without raising much suspicion.  Enough people have expressed distrust towards McMc that it's pretty safe to jump on.  So does that mean there would be scum on it?  For me it would make Shraeye more suspect, and you moreso.

But more what I wanted to get a feel of is: if McMc is a mislynch, will that give us good information for the future?   If so, we can be less wary about making a mistake.  If not, maybe it's worth looking elsewhere.

Well I did join the wagon later, which depending on whether you think scum would play the opposite of what people think, or take it one negation back, would make me look scummy or town--or if you think the latter.

e.g.

Blatant scum would vote for town!mcmc for little to no reason and probably be on the wagon early

smarter scum would perhaps hold off (like me), or express some doubts

(Shraeye's thoughts on faust), even smarter scum would mildly oppose the wagon while doing nothing to stop it. And then use this to get themselves town credit after the flip

There is definitely a WIFOM element to these arguments though. In that it all depends on how smart you think scum is, and how smart you think scum thinks that you are.

To answer your other question though, I think mcmc's flip would give us a lot of useful information even if it is a mislynch. He has had a lot of interactions with Shraeye, and I think most people have at least given some thoughts on him. But even then, we can analyze people for their lack of comments on mcmc as well.

Delirious Deleuze

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #296 on: March 29, 2014, 05:08:05 pm »

Just so everyone knows. I real life prodded ADK but he's at work until later, so he might be a few hours to reply.
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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #297 on: March 29, 2014, 06:10:11 pm »

I want mcmc to defend himself against this post by shraeye. I am leaning towards lynching mcmc now.

I literally found ADK scummy because of interactions.  The very interactions you just said I wasn't looking at.  You're spouting off generic ready-made reasons that I'm scummy and people should discredit me, and not even bothering to see if they're accurate.
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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #298 on: March 29, 2014, 06:10:54 pm »

I now have a pretty big town read on WW and Nik, and I am leaning town on shraeye.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: NewMafia V : House of Cards (Day 1)
« Reply #299 on: March 29, 2014, 06:13:18 pm »

I now have a pretty big town read on WW and Nik, and I am leaning town on shraeye.

So you have town reads on: Shraeye, Nik, ww, and mcmc?
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