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[faust]

Okay, so I'm really not getting what Ichimaru sees as scummy in DeDe's posts. His first point is "DeDe sheeps a WW case". I do not see where that case has been made before. Sure we talked about him, but did anyone find him as scummy as DeDe did? He did not even have a vote on him prior to DeDe's vote. I don't think that's sheeping.

Ichimaru's second point is that DeDe is defensive. True, but that's not scummy. For a certainty I expect a newbie who is put at L-2 to be defensive, regardless of alignment.

So Ichimaru's case here seems oddly artificial to me, like trying to build a case just to have content.

Vote: Ichimaru for that.

[Witherweaver]

The wagon on DeDe is interesting as well. Two votes are for him lurking. Then he comes in with a reasonable post with content, and participates. He could expand a bit more on the Witherweaver case, but hey, he makes a case! Ichimaru thinks he looks scummy from this... I will looks at their exchange in my next post.

Right now I'm asking Voltaire and Nik: are you still comfortable with your votes? Because it seems the reason for these votes is now gone.

DeDe doesn't seem to have a strong case against him, and if it turns out he is scum I think it would just be coincidental.  He was originally called out for not posting much, but that's it.  So then he posted, tried to make some arguments, and got accused, so now he's defending.  I could easily see myself reacting that way.

Shraeye seemed to disappear after his initial barrage of questionable questions.  Well my first instinct on his actions was scum, and that hasn't changed, and it's the only read I've gotten during this game, so I'm going to go ahead and vote for it.  Vote: Shraeye

[Witherweaver]

Can someone explain more what is meant by "sheeping"?

[faust]

Can someone explain more what is meant by "sheeping"?

Sheeping - voting for someone that another player found suspicious without adding thoughts of your own. (As in "you're following him like a sheep")

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.4:

Delirious Deleuze (3): Nik, Voltaire, Ichimaru Gin
shraeye (2): mcmcsalot, Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): Delirious Deleuze
Ichimaru Gin (1): faust

Not Voting (2): shraeye, A Drowned Kernel

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 p.m. on April 1, 2014.

[Witherweaver]

Can someone explain more what is meant by "sheeping"?

Sheeping - voting for someone that another player found suspicious without adding thoughts of your own. (As in "you're following him like a sheep")

Doesn't DeDe's vote not count as sheeping then?

[faust]

Can someone explain more what is meant by "sheeping"?

Sheeping - voting for someone that another player found suspicious without adding thoughts of your own. (As in "you're following him like a sheep")

Doesn't DeDe's vote not count as sheeping then?

That's what I was saying.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok. Just woke up. There's always a lot that happens while I'm asleep.

Me being a newbie is a provable fact, not a claim.  This is my first game.  The original posts verify this.

Why would dd question this?

Also, no one has seemed to comment on dd saying "diverting attention from ww". It's like ww should be the focus--when I don't really see the case against him right now.

Okay, so I'm really not getting what Ichimaru sees as scummy in DeDe's posts. His first point is "DeDe sheeps a WW case". I do not see where that case has been made before.

So being the first one to mention something is scummy? I aknowledge that I may be completely wrong, but I am just speaking what I saw there.

And. . .on looking at some of your other guy's posts. I can see the logic that any newbie (scum or no) would likely react the way that dd did though. So perpaps I am reading too much into things.

I must say it is difficult, because in most regular games, newbies are given D1 passes. But here in this game, where over half the players are newbies, this doesn't seem practical. I know that I at least, wasn't subjected to this much pressure D1 as a newbie.

Very well, unvote

I still think the case on ww is pretty trumped up. I will be checking out shraeye though, as I haven't really gotten what that case is about.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Ichimaru unvotes again!

Looking over it, I feel like people feel like there's more pressure on shraeye than there actually is, it's not some sort of super-strong wagon. mc voices suspicion of him but it doesn't seem too serious, and a couple of newbies agree with him. Maybe I'm just used to larger games but that doesn't seem like he's any imminent danger.

That said, I'm interested to hear what his thoughts are, it's been awhile since he posted. Nik and other newbies, keep posting!

[Nik]

On the Shraeye situation:
It is strange that he is a vet and yet has so many odd questions; especially since he posted a helpful bit at the beginning.
Shraeye, where are you?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think his questions are less about him being confused and more about him investigating people's motivations, which is a good thing for him to be doing.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ichimaru unvotes again!

And who are you currently voting for?

If you find me scummy for this, why don't you vote for me, instead of casting mild suspicion and then doing nothing?

It is still very early in the game, and it is my opinion that RVS was perhaps cut prematurely short (although it could just be that this is a smaller setup).

Yes, I agree that newbs should keep posting as they comprise a large part of the player pool and it should help the game to move forward instead of stalling.

[Voltaire]

Ahh! Sorry I haven't posted, but what am I supposed to say? Sorry, I'm a über-newb.

I don't see scum posting this. I really don't. Town read on Nik, don't want to lynch him today.

Also, something I just realized, we need a soft deadline in case we accidentally are going to lynch the doc or cop so we have time to switch to someone else. (Scum can't fakeclaim because the real PR will counterclaim and a 1-for-1 trade is great for town here). So how about a soft deadline (time we all agree to lynch) at 5 PM forum time on March 31? That's a day before the deadline, and it should give the lynchee time to claim (don't like as town, if scum claims to be a PR the real PR can counterclaim them and then we lynch either the first claimant or the second, even if we get it wrong we know who to lynch the next day, and a 1-for-1 trade is, again, better for town).

So here's where I stand right now:

Nik - just don't see scum asking "what should I post?"
Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze
Ichimaru Gin
A Drowned Kernel
mcmcsalot
shraeye - would need a really compelling reason
faust
Voltaire - won't lynch myself

Of the remaining candidates, mcmc and WW strike me as town right now. So I'd like to lynch within DD, Ichi, ADK, and faust. So in that sense, I'm fine leaving my vote on DD for now. I haven't looked at post counts yet, btw, and still have a few posts to catch up on.

[Voltaire]

Okay, so I'm really not getting what Ichimaru sees as scummy in DeDe's posts. His first point is "DeDe sheeps a WW case". I do not see where that case has been made before. Sure we talked about him, but did anyone find him as scummy as DeDe did? He did not even have a vote on him prior to DeDe's vote. I don't think that's sheeping.

Ichimaru's second point is that DeDe is defensive. True, but that's not scummy. For a certainty I expect a newbie who is put at L-2 to be defensive, regardless of alignment.

So Ichimaru's case here seems oddly artificial to me, like trying to build a case just to have content.

Vote: Ichimaru for that.

I like this. Enough to unvote DD for sure.

[Voltaire]

that should be "don't lie as town" a few posts above

[Ichimaru Gin]

It'd be nice to hear more from mcmc and shraeye.


town reads on: volt, nik, shraeye

null on: ww, adk, faust

possible scum: dd, mcmc,

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also, something I just realized, we need a soft deadline in case we accidentally are going to lynch the doc or cop so we have time to switch to someone else. (Scum can't fakeclaim because the real PR will counterclaim and a 1-for-1 trade is great for town here). So how about a soft deadline (time we all agree to lynch) at 5 PM forum time on March 31? That's a day before the deadline, and it should give the lynchee time to claim (don't like as town, if scum claims to be a PR the real PR can counterclaim them and then we lynch either the first claimant or the second, even if we get it wrong we know who to lynch the next day, and a 1-for-1 trade is, again, better for town).

I think this is a good fail-safe. Hopefully, we can avoid PR claims though--as it seems pretty bad given the alternating night mechanic. And whether or not the subsequent night will be even or odd could affect this. For example, if the cop claims D2, he can't be protected that night--when it matters the most. So I could easily a scum tactic of focusing attention on their PR suspects and trying to get them to a point where they claim. I agree that counter-claiming seems very risky for scum in this setup; but (especially if its a newbie team) we shouldn't rule out the possibility.

[Voltaire]

There may be a point where it would be good play (NOT today) for the cop and doc to claim to create two ICs (guaranteed town players) because, again, scum counter-claiming will just give us a 50/50 choice. In essence, it'd be ignoring the fact that we have two PRs and pretending we had two Named Townies (for those of you consulting the wiki).

Obviously though it's better if we just use the roles as intended for a bit. And obviously better if we lynch scum, or failing that, a VT.

[Ichimaru Gin]

There may be a point where it would be good play (NOT today) for the cop and doc to claim to create two ICs (guaranteed town players) because, again, scum counter-claiming will just give us a 50/50 choice. In essence, it'd be ignoring the fact that we have two PRs and pretending we had two Named Townies (for those of you consulting the wiki).

Obviously though it's better if we just use the roles as intended for a bit. And obviously better if we lynch scum, or failing that, a VT.

So they would be claiming without giving away which specific PR they were? Just two "Named Townies"?

[Voltaire]

No, they would say "I'm the Cop" or "I'm the Doctor". (the comparison to the role "Named Townie" is in that we'd simply care that they were the Doc or Cop, not necessarily about any results they have)

Imagine this scenario: We lynch scum today. A VT dies tonight. If the Cop and Doc decide to claim tomorrow, our lynch pool would be down to 4 from the VTs point-of-view (7 living players, 2 are our PRs, they know they themselves are town) instead of 7. Now, I don't think that's worth it. But, imagine that we then lynch a VT, and a VT dies N2. D3 dawns with 5 living players. Say our PRs claim then. Our lynch pool for the VTs goes from 4 to 2 - and the Cop has a N2 result to claim. Which, if it's a town result on one of the VTs, wins the game.

(so, you say, why won't scum counter-claim one of the PRs? Because even if they get us to lynch the real cop, they kill someone at night, we still have D4 with 3 alive, 1 scum, and the scum is obvious.)

So that's a situation where it makes sense for the Doctor and Cop to claim immediately (D3, no PRs have died). There might be others. There might not be. Just something for them to think about. The decision on when to claim or not claim should always be made in the best judgement of the PR themselves, because any advice from the town is prone to scum manipulation.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I like the soft deadline idea. I've seen very little this game that's voteworthy for me yet, but I do have a pretty strong town read on shraeye and a mostly town read on DeDe, taking a stance on WW seemed like a good town move for a newbie. Volt laying at this plan and explaining the claiming business to the newbies might be a point in his favor, but scum would also want to appear this helpful, so I'll keep an eye on him.

[Voltaire]

ADK, other vets have done the "explain stuff" thing too - are you suspicious of them as well?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Not exactly suspicious but I'm just trying to put it out there that just because you were helpful doesn't mean you're not scum. The point was made earlier in the day I think so it doesn't need to be hammered home.

[shraeye]

I know he's not my scum partner.

Who is your scum partner?

haha! zing!  great joke.

But my opinion of Voltaire is towny right now.  He seems to be going about the "sorting things out" properly phase.  Good townies do that.

Glad to see more from DelDel; keep it coming!

More thoughts: Ichi and DelDel are talking back and forth, and I'm kinda confused following what they're saying.  If somebody could try to break that down, it'd be nice.  Ichi, you've done the mafia-games before, yes?

[shraeye]

Hi all.  I may not be able to be extremely active until the evening for the next couple of days.  After that I should be fine.

There are two scum in this setup? I'm guessing one will be a veteran player.  It probably wasn't set up randomly given the structure of a newbie game.  But I have no reason to guess any particular one, so I'll randomly Vote: Voltaire.

So question to everyone, what are the odds witherweaver is mafia with a veteran partner who told him to say this. In an attempt to gain town cred. It has become a recent thing to give towncred(often to newbies) who make crucial setup errors that are unlikely to come from mafia.

Much more important question.  What do YOU think?  Also, who's answer was most revealing?

would scum really want to sound overly confused or confident in their thought and then be able to go "oh! wow sorry I missed that entirely" I mean WW's post was thought out he gave a guess(one vet, one newbie) and a reason(newbie game)

Is this an either/or question? it seems to me that confused and confident are two disparate states of mind.

MCMC; ANSWER THESE.