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[shraeye]

shraeye, what do you think about ichi?

Ichi's voting patterns vis-a-vis mcmc seem strange.  Definitely makes him worth looking at.

If what you said were the case that would leave. (random order)

Ichimaru Gin
Wandering Winder
Delerious Deleuze
Voltaire
Nik
faust

So who would my scum partner be? faust?
Also, I can understand if this is just an important to get your reads down now if you happen to get killed tonight (something I remember Shraeye talking about earlier).

I dislike defensive questions like "if I'm scum, who's my partner?"  It's not a valid defense, since scum are trying to appear unconnected to eachother. 

This post as well; for some reason I get wary when people's reads line up so much with mine. 


Ichi, can you tell me what you remember why you put faust high on your suspicion list in that last post?

[shraeye]

whoa; sorry for that weird quoting pull.  The phantom quote should be filled with the quote in my previous post.

[Voltaire]

I would be happy lynching Ichi instead of mcmc. Those are the only two people I want to lynch today at this point I think (mcmc because he claimed, X because we only should have 1 other option via WW's reasoning, and Ichi is my choice for X). Though we'd have to be quick about it to give Ichi time to claim.

Note that I don't think Ichi/mcmc is necessarily the scumteam. In fact I think that's fairly unlikely. They are scum in different universes I think and we should pick one.

Leaving my vote on mcmc because that is the lynch I like a bit more and it's far more viable.

I will now be gone all day, and will check in tonight.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: ichimaru gin

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.11:

mcmcsalot (4): shraeye, Voltaire, Ichimaru Gin, Nik {L-1}
Ichimaru Gin (3): faust, Witherweaver, mcmcsalot
A Drowned Kernel (1) : Delirious Deleuze
Voltaire (1): A Drowned Kernel

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 p.m. on April 1, 2014 (in ~24 hours).

[Witherweaver]

Reads:

scummy: faust, ADK, mcmc (I would be happy to lynch one of these today, and I think we should)

null: witherweaver, delirious deleuze

town: Volt, Shraeye, Nik?,

So this is really interesting.  This is almost identical to Faust's read, except that Faust has Ichi as the third scum instead of himself.  For reference, this is what Faust said:

It is interesting how this doesn't feel like a newbie game at all. Good work, everyone!

After catching up, my reads now look like this:

Ichimaru - still scummy. All my previous points still hold, and he's done nothing to make himself look townie.
mcmc - scummy. The VT claim on top of everything else... let me state again why VT is a horrible claim for town to make: it accomplishes two things: 1) Scum knows who they don't need to lynch. 2) You will never be night killed. Scum loves an excuse for never being night killed. Town has no reason to give scum this information.
ADK - scummy. Mostly a feeling from his latest post. Also isn't very active or memorable, so he doesn't make a bad lynch

Nik - lurking, sheeping and slightly scummy for that. He's the only one here why acts like I would expect a newbie to act though, and this may well come from newbie!town.

Voltaire - null. He's pretty much his normal self, without any standout interactions that lead me to think either way about him. I do want to keep him alive today though.
Witherweaver - null. I don't really get why people find him particularly townie, but didn't see much scummy stuff either.

shraeye - slight town. I think he is making sense and putting strong reads out there and sticking to them. Scum is usually more afraid of such commitment.
DeDe - town. My strongest town read, actually. Posts seem sincere, good activity, not afraid of stating reads... it may be masterful newbie!scum play, but I don't think so.

[Delirious Deleuze]

I still think ADK is the scummiest of all, but I think MCMC is a close second. I've been against him for a while. I think his arguments against shraeye are horrible constructed. I think the claim was problematic. He's appealing to emotion, which I think is just a bad defense at this point. I would be okay switching my vote.

That being said: newbie question - would just switching my vote and ending the discussion and the remaining time we have be bad to do? Would it be taboo to just switch and end d1?

[faust]

I still think ADK is the scummiest of all, but I think MCMC is a close second. I've been against him for a while. I think his arguments against shraeye are horrible constructed. I think the claim was problematic. He's appealing to emotion, which I think is just a bad defense at this point. I would be okay switching my vote.

That being said: newbie question - would just switching my vote and ending the discussion and the remaining time we have be bad to do? Would it be taboo to just switch and end d1?

Usually, you would state intent to hammer (hammer = putting the last vote required to lynch on a player). That way, everyone still has a chance to say something before the day ends. I already did that, though, so I guess you could hammer. I'll hold off for a bit; I will be leaving at 3 pm and, if noone else has hammered yet, I will place the hammer vote.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Okay cool! Thanks! You can hammer, I'll leave my vote on ADK.

[faust]

So, to give mcmc his answer (while I'm technically not voting for him, I think I should state my reasons anyway).

Mostly, it is you making a weak case on shraeye, who in return has a (in my opinion) more solid case on you. Your response to the accusations was much AtE, and little actual reasoning. You could never clarify the inconsistencies that he pointed out, you didn't even really try. Then the VT claim adds to that, I would lynch a claimed VT any time on D1.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok. I'm back, done a quick skimming of 2+ pages.

Please don't anyone hammer right now.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ichi, can you tell me what you remember why you put faust high on your suspicion list in that last post?

Mostly because (before this last night) he hasn't really posted much of anything, hasn't posted much in general, and has experienced very little suspicion.

[Ichimaru Gin]

This post as well; for some reason I get wary when people's reads line up so much with mine. 

Well Volt flat out admitted that he is sheeping you, so why doesn't that bother you?

I really can't say for sure that you are town, but your 100% commital and extremism on mcmc makes me think you are (plus other stuff that I'm too tired to think of right now)

[Ichimaru Gin]

I still like my vote on Ichimaru. His case on DeDe was constructed, and now he brings up a conspiracy theory. I find it quite unlikely that mcmc and shraeye are scum together, and even if they are, I wouldn't think they staged this fight.

Why does that make him scummy? Town is paranoid everyone is scum. I see nothing suspicious about him seeing the fight as scum v scum. In fact, it gave me a town read on him.

I do think you're scummy faust - nice try. I think you're doing a good job of not getting a terrible amount of pressure while still being present on D1, a classic scum position.

Seeing the fight as scum vs scum gives Ichimaru a reason to vote for either of them, which he may want if both are town and exposing themselves like this.

Tell me, how did I manage to not get pressure? I am trying to contribute, yes. It is not my fault that noone has pressured me yet. Should I act scummy to get some pressure so that I don't look scummy? That just makes no sense.

Except I also mentioned that the worst case scenario is that they are both town, in which case all of this would be incredibly stupid and just getting town lynched. So you must have missed that post.

Ok. I'm back. Wow, much stronger scum read on ADK and mcmc.

I am interested by the people who decided to jump on the bandwagon of my "conspiracy theory", which is basically Nik sheeping ADK, and then changing his mind. Although I do admit that the self-aware "that scum!" joke is pretty townie.

I think it is also important to look at the way my behavior was first described by ADK as a "conspiracy theory" which is then a term that everyone else decides to use--creating a connotation with my behavior because of the label used to describe it--something I view as a blatant scum tactic. (I think I may have also used it, but my point still stands).

Reads:

scummy: faust, ADK, mcmc (I would be happy to lynch one of these today, and I think we should)

null: witherweaver, delirious deleuze

town: Volt, Shraeye, Nik?,

I won't be able to post a ton today, as I have heavy homework demands, but I am going to

vote: mcmc

That is L-2 I think. Nik voted for me, then revoted mcmc, and Shraeye's vote was already on mcmc.

Much OMGUS in this post, I think. I would like for you to specify why you have the reads you state here (if you did this already, sorry; I'm not yet finished rereading).

How is this OMGUS? ADK wasn't even voting for me at the time. I find him scummy because for a while he was just ignoring some of the major wagons, and also taking a very anti-everything attitude. e.g. voting for Voltaire for very poor reasons (I think this may have been after this post, I'm not sure), de de made some good points about defending people and basically doing vicarious OMGUS.

[shraeye]

This post as well; for some reason I get wary when people's reads line up so much with mine. 

Well Volt flat out admitted that he is sheeping you, so why doesn't that bother you?

Admitting to blatantly sheeping is different than posting thoughts that happen to line up with somebody elses.

[Ichimaru Gin]

This post as well; for some reason I get wary when people's reads line up so much with mine. 

Well Volt flat out admitted that he is sheeping you, so why doesn't that bother you?

Admitting to blatantly sheeping is different than posting thoughts that happen to line up with somebody elses.

So more obvious scummy behavior is less scummy. Thanks, because I was actually unsure (being serious here), if that was a defense, but I guess it is.

[shraeye]

is it obviously scummy to sheep?

[Ichimaru Gin]

In that case I will unvote

The way Ichi goes back and forth with putting mcmc at L-1 is most interesting.

I know that this is scummy. Why would I do this?
Because people posted things to change my mind. I am not going to tunnel mcmc when new evidence/posts come up.
Is having easily-changeable reads scummy? Maybe. But this is my first game as town, so even though I've played once before, there is a lot that is new to me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

is it obviously scummy to sheep?

Is it? I thought so, am I wrong?

Sheeping is scummy because it is an easy position for scum to take, no?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ichimaru - still scummy. All my previous points still hold, and he's done nothing to make himself look townie.

This is a gross exaggeration. Universal negatives are rarely true, and certainly not true in this case.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Wow, ichi revotes me because shraeye tells him to and still says he would rather lynch someone else. voting someone while mainaining that they are not your number one choice is something we see scum do often

I must admit, that is actually true. Shraeye was a major influence on my decision to revote you. Is this wrong? If Shraeye is town (which I think is likely), is it wrong for me as a very inexperienced town player to somewhat follow his lead?

As to the second sentence, did not Voltaire do the same thing (saying he would rather lynch ADK than mcmc?)

[Ichimaru Gin]

but I'm glad to see we agree about Ichi.

Could someone explain this to me, there's so much to wade through and I'm not catching the reference.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I would be happy lynching Ichi instead of mcmc. Those are the only two people I want to lynch today at this point I think (mcmc because he claimed, X because we only should have 1 other option via WW's reasoning, and Ichi is my choice for X). Though we'd have to be quick about it to give Ichi time to claim.

Wow, if mcmc is town, I can really see his frustration now! It really sucks being town and have people close lynching you!

At least as scum, you secretly know that their suspicions are justified.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I probably could have done a better job of condensing my last posts, but I'm just adressing a ton of random things since I've been asleep. And also unsure when/if someone is going to hammer.

[faust]

Well, I have to run. And I think we're done here. I would also be fine with the alternative Ichi lynch, but let's not risk another claim.

Vote: mcmc