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Author Topic: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread  (Read 18179 times)

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dnkywin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2014, 03:08:34 pm »
0

dnkywin defeats Simon(DK), 3-1

Game 1: Simon (DK) 43, dnkywin resigned

Key Card(s): Tournament. He beats me to the Province, then the Followers. Things quickly go downhill after that.

Game 2: dnkywin 33, Simon (DK) 17

Key Card(s): Rebuild, Goons. I open 5/2 in 1st position and pick up a Royal Seal (Royal Seal seems really good in this game, but maybe I didn't need a second one?) Anyhow, it helps me win the Duchy split and I'm also able to pick up a Goons along the way.

Game 3: dnkywin 3, Simon (DK) -2

Key Card(s): Mountebank, Ironworks, Urchin, Vineyards. I open Silver/IW with the primary intention of getting Vineyards (seeing as there is a cheap cantrip on the board as well), and my opponent opens Silver/Silver (presumably to get the Mountebank). I'm able to also pick up a Mountebank in the first shuffle and I proceed to mass IW/Urchin. Before either of us is able to make any real progress, I end the game by picking up 2 Urchins and 2 IW with my 4 ironworks, and buy the last curse for the win. In the end, I only had 1 Vineyard, but it was worth 8 VP.

Game 4: Simon (DK) 37, dnkywin 49

Key Card(s): Margrave, Baker?. I think I just had better luck this game. Simon draws his three margraves together near the end, and I'm able to snag the last Duchy and Estate to reach 43 VP. (Just wondering, is picking up a few Bakers the right play here?)

Thanks for the games, Simon (DK)!
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Psyduck

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2014, 07:07:48 pm »
+2

Rabid - Psyduck 1:3

Game 1



Code: [Select]
Native Village, Smugglers, Workshop, Bureaucrat, Noble Brigand, Apprentice, Pillage, Witch, Expand, Forge
Witch seems dominant on that board, but there is also expensive trashing in Forge, Apprentice and Expand. Rabid opens double Silver, I take Smugglers with a Silver, hoping to smuggle a Witch. This doesn't happen at first, but his Witch misses her first shuffle, while mine doesn't and I also get a second. Later he gets a second which I smuggle, after already having smuggled some Gold.
I'm also very lucky to stop his second Witch play with my only Pillage.
Rabid plays it a bit more moneyish, while I go for Native Villages, Apprentices and a Forge. This causes me to get through my deck quicker and even play more Witches. I win the split 8-2 and can even trash my two Curses.

Game 2



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Pearl Diver, Oasis, Familiar, Contraband, Explorer, Jester, Tactician, Harem, Expand
Here, I have the advantage of starting 5/2 (Tactician + Chapel), while Rabid must settle for Chapel/Oasis. I'm still not sure if Tactician is better than Jester here, but it worked out quite well. We trash down, I get a Jester, he gets a Gold, which my Jester directly hits. At this point he has trashed much more agressively (maybe a bit too much?), with his deck consisting of 2xOasis, Gold, Silver, Chapel. He then gets an Explorer and starts going for Provinces. This works well at the beginning. However, I start buying Familiars and clog up his thin deck. By turn 12 he has 3 Provinces, but also 9 Curses and stalls very hard. I manage to get some money by expanding Potion and Familiars and can catch up without big problems.

Game 3



Code: [Select]
Haven, Lighthouse, Ironworks, Island, Remodel, Smithy, Duke, Jester, Junk Dealer, Goons
Another interesting one. I see three possible roads to take here: Goons, Ironworks/Island and Duke. I feel there is no strong Duke support (Jester? Goons?) but I'm not sure at all. Goons is always strong, and there is Junk Dealer to get rid of additional Coppers. But there is also Lighthouse as protection. Ironworks/Island is not the classic rush combination, but I thought it would be good with Lighthouses to gain to protect against Goons and go for it. Rabid goes for Goons and Junk Dealers anyway. This turns out to be the better choice, as I fail to get enough points fast enough to threaten three-piling. His two Goons assemble enough points for him to bring home the game safely.

Game 4



Code: [Select]
Stonemason, Doctor, Shanty Town, Feast, Rats, Thief, Counterfeit, Highway, Mystic, Grand Market
I love that board! Highway/(Grand) Market just plays awesome every time. And here we also have Stonemason to gain GMs with Coppers in play. Now the big question is: How to begin? Counterfeit is certainly important to trash Coppers, so Feast is an option. Shanty Town is nice to for cyling and later to find more cantrips. There is also Doctor which can trash stuff. Rabid has 3/4 and goes for Feast/Silver. I have 4/3 and start Doctor/Silver. He then gets another Feast and trashes them for Counterfit and Highway, while I'm busy trashing Coppers and Estates, which works surprisingly well. Having the thinner deck, I use Stonemason to catch up in action cards. The Highways split 6-4 in my favour. As the piles start getting low, Rabid starts greening in turn 11, then I get my super turn and buy 4 Provinces. From then on it's never again really close and I win by stonemasoning a GM into the last two Duchies.


Rabid, like I said in the chat, I enjoyed the games a lot. These were really interesting ones.
Having had a chance to review them I must admit that I got very lucky, though. Winning the curse split 8-2 as second player in game 1 is ridiculuos. In game 2 I think 5/2 was stronger than 3/4. In game 3 your strategy was better, while in game 4 I had 4/3 compared to your 3/4 which made Doctor, which I think made the difference, more appealing. Thanks for these games and see you soon for a couple of revenge games, if you like. :)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 07:11:36 pm by Psyduck »
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amalloy

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2014, 11:12:05 pm »
+1

amalloy 3-0 schneeg.


Game 1



Code: [Select]
Stonemason, Vagrant, Tunnel, Watchtower, Cutpurse, Salvager, Talisman, Council Room, Cultist, Altar
Cultist/money looks like the dominant strategy here, and Watchtower/Altar may be able to play a role. I opened Silver/Silver to avoid terminal collision with the Cultists I planned to get soon; schneeg grabbed a Cutpurse to stop me from getting to them. But amazingly, Cutpurse hits my $7 hand, and I can still afford Altar. The ruin split goes pretty evenly, and in the end my Altar and Stonemason give me enough endgame control to end it while I'm ahead.

amalloy 1-0 schneeg

Game 2


Code: [Select]
Watchtower, Procession, Talisman, Thief, Wandering Minstrel, Bandit Camp, Graverobber, Mint, Goons, Harem
Goons with Watchtower and tons of Villages - should be fun. I opened Talisman/Silver, but I think schneeg's Watchtower-Silver is better: you want to be getting 5s and 6s ASAP, and then later gaining lots of 4s and 3s. I thought Procession would play a big role in upgrading me into Goons, but I never ended up buying one. The game was very much a mirror, with all the key cards splitting evenly. I think schneeg had the edge, but he carelessly took two of the last four Watchtowers while ahead by only two VPs, so I was able to clean those out and win.

amalloy 2-0 schneeg


Game 3


Code: [Select]
Transmute, Native Village, Oracle, Shanty Town, Familiar, Bridge, Fortress, Herald, Spice Merchant, Graverobber
As I later said in the chat to schneeg, I know Native Village + Bridge is a good combo, but I don't know the details of how to play it. I opted for "buy lots of NV+Bridge, set aside every time, and hope to put lots of Bridges in hand eventually". The Alchemy cards also left me a little unsure - do you bother getting a Familiar? If your opponent does, do you want a Transmute or do you just soak up the curses? I'd love some feedback from stronger players on this one.

scheeg's shuffle luck was not good in this game: his Potion missed the first shuffle, and then when he got to play the Familiar he had to trigger another shuffle! To add insult to injury, he put his second Familiar on the NV mat. But I had some bad draws of my own: I never succeeded in putting a single Bridge on my mat, so when schneeg forced my hand by getting the piles low, my "megaturn" only contained one Bridge! But that was enough to buy a Province and some breathing room; a couple turns later I had enough buys to get Duchy/Curse/Curse and end it ahead by one.
amalloy 3-0 schneeg


Three close games, any one of which could have gone the other way. Thanks for the games, schneeg!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 11:16:38 pm by amalloy »
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2014, 11:49:24 pm »
+1

Titandrake and I tied our match 3-3. I don't think I've ever played 6 more grueling, frustrating, miserable games!

Titandrake 3-3 Robz888

Will upload videos/add commentary when I have time to.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140313/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1394747938376.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140313/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1394750423193.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140313/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1394751250645.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140313/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1394752115848.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140313/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1394752899655.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140313/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1394754194926.txt

Here was the first game:



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Baron, Feodum, Sea Hag, Smithy, Cultist, Horn of Plenty, Hunting Party, Mint, Wharf
Okay, check this out. He gets first player, and gets to open 5/2 (Cultist/Chapel here, pretty good!). I get to open Silver/Chapel. Silver and Chapel are cards 11 and 12 in my deck, and I get 9 Ruins. NINE. It was a hilarious streak of bad luck that got less hilarious as it carried into later games...

The second game was a Fools Gold thing that turned into a slog, but my opponent lost his internet connection right before the end. It's unclear who would have one at that point. I think he was a little more likely to win, but it was just going to come down to the last Province. We agreed to scratch it and start again.

The real second game was this:



Code: [Select]
Shanty Town, Farming Village, Mining Village, Nomad Camp, Pirate Ship, Quarry, Hunting Party, Mine, Pillage, Hoard
I'm certainly open to the argument that I played badly, especially after I lose the Hunting Party split and have no idea what to do to recover. But... why did I lose the Hunting Party split??? Anyway, I'm not necessarily writing this one off as bad luck, although I did feel like early on my good cards kept getting stuck at the bottom of my shuffle. That becomes a recurring theme...

Game 3:



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Chancellor, Watchtower, Baker, Counterfeit, Cultist, Outpost, Pillage, Altar, Fairgrounds

Well, my luck swings back the other way, here. First player and Cultist, and it's game over on like Turn 5. How fun.

Continued in next post...
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2014, 12:01:59 am »
+1

Game 4:



Code: [Select]
Vagrant, Oracle, Monument, Noble Brigand, Spice Merchant, Trader, Contraband, Junk Dealer, Mountebank, Expand
I play this one very aggressively and kind of crazy. When I draw Spice Merchant with no Copper, I buy another SM. Two SMs actually did a lot of good work for me here, I think, cycling me better. Of course, Mountebank is the big thing, but he blocks with his Curse in hand over and over and over again. And he's hitting $6 over and over and over again. The thing is, that's deceptively bad for him. He amasses some ridiculous number of Golds--I think 7 by games end--and I start charging Noble Brigands. I'm over terminaled, but eventually the attack catches up with him. He takes a commanding lead but I grind him down, and I can buy the last two Provinces in back-to-back turns to win. So this was kind of a fun one.

Game 5:



Code: [Select]
Fool's Gold, Native Village, Fishing Village, Warehouse, Coppersmith, Farming Village, Horse Traders, Embassy, Junk Dealer, Outpost
I play Horse Traders/Warehouse/Fools Gold. He attempts the engine, but then goes for Fools Gold, too. I don't think the mix is very good, although it's quite possible the pure engine should triumph. Of course, that would let me get so many FGs. And the engine isn't the greatest thing ever. It has villages and draw and trashing, but no attacks, nothing flashy. Although I know we say always go engine here, just pure FG is fast, and FG had enablers here. What do the experts say? Anyway, I won, but it was close.

Game 6:



Code: [Select]
Haven, Workshop, Sea Hag, Treasure Map, Bandit Camp, Ill-Gotten Gains, Junk Dealer, Vault, Goons, Expand
I'm going first, and my buys are Silver / Sea Hag / Sea Hag. We end up splitting the Curses 7-3... AND I'M ON THE LOSING END. When this happened in Game 1 it was funny, this time I was sort of mad. Not at my opponent obviously, and I know sometimes you just get unlucky, and I don't even know, maybe the middle games balanced out all the bad luck I got in Games 1 and 6. But... man. Ugh.

I mount the best comeback I possibly can, but I know it's hopeless. I have to buy Havens to Haven away Silvers so I can have hands that produce $5 so that I can buy Junk Dealers so that I can trash these Curses. It turns around and is decently close at one point, but he can end it on piles and kill me off (Goons helps him keep an edge, too).

Many thanks to my opponent for putting up with my complaining, then and now, and also being patient as I was late to the game.
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Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: March 14, 2014, 06:04:19 am »
+2

Videos are up. I talk softer as the series goes on, which was not intentional. I also forgot to update the labels to keep track of the series, so it's inaccurate after game 2.

Game 1:


Robz already went over game 1. I didn't know it was possible for a game to become so one-sided until now.

Game 2:

So I'm not sure how Robz lost the HP split either. I think I got $5s and Robz got $4s, and that's why. Not the best explanation. Anyways, although Robz getting Quarry seems right, I'm not sure if the Quarry I bought was the right call or not. I don't use it that much, and it's another differently named card. Doesn't matter though, 6 Hunting Parties is too good with Pillage in the kingdom.

Game 3:

No idea why I bought Watchtower. It doesn't do anything, you don't have any +Actions to even abuse it with. Deep down, I really wanted to trash a Cultist with it. That's my guess. Losing the Ruins split 7-3 is rough, not sure what else I could have done besides not buy Watchtower and maybe skip the Gold for Altar.

Game 4:

Spice Merchant was a good call, I thought it would run out of fuel but Mountebank always keeps it filled. I get really lucky early, then don't properly recognize that this game is going to go long and NB will be enough to catch up. Or rather, I realize it partway through, but because Robz has barely bought any Golds, I think it's better to ignore and try to rush Provinces. I don't quite make it. Talked after the game about potentially using Expand, which lets me skip buying Gold if I don't want it. Or maybe, my Noble Brigands should be Monuments, to give me more VP. I don't know. Or, maybe I buy Trader, and Trader my Gold into 6 Silvers to make it hard to cripple my economy. That might actually work. Interesting game.

Game 5:

I start building engine, chicken out and decide the FG strategy is faster, and transition into a big mess. I'm fairly certain the engine isn't good enough here. Embassy is technically only a net of +2 cards. With Junk Dealer, you won't have too many dead cards to discard to Embassy. Your +Buy, Horse Traders, also discards cards, and that anti-synergizes with Embassy because you won't have that many dead cards to throw away. Even Fishing Village doesn't increase handsize, and Farming Village means you won't have that many junk cards in hand because it'll skip over the dead ones. All in all, I think this is a case where you have a lot of engine pieces, but they all anti-synergize enough to make it not worth it. (It also helps that Fool's Gold is really fast with HT for +Buy and Warehouse for cycling.)

Game 6:


When you lose the curse split 7-3, you're gonna have a bad time. I think I'm a bit sloppy here, in that I shouldn't have to worry about my lead ever this game if I play correctly, but it really doesn't matter. The Havens really put in work, and made the game a lot more plausible. I pick up Goons + Junk Dealer, then end it before he has a chance to catch up by using Goons VP to stay ahead. (Something I picked up from Geronimoo last Gokodom, when I was on the receiving end of a slow 3-pile with Goons.)

So, the tl;dr for each game is,
dumb luck, weird money splits, first player advantage, the comeback, the throw, and back to dumb luck. So, not the greatest series. But it was fun!
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RTT

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: March 14, 2014, 06:23:38 am »
+3

Ok Guys Videos are uploaded ;) i recomend not watching game 5 unless you are cruel and want to hear my scream of pain when i missclick horribly ...

Game 1 crazy Possesion KC


Game 2


Game 3


Game 4


Game 5 (just dont watch this)


Game 6 (double hag missing the shuffle just to kick me when im allready down)
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thetig333

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2014, 05:38:21 pm »
0

Lekkit vs TheTig333

http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140314/log.512ba416e4b022198f05f8e2.1394828434019.txt
http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140314/log.512ba416e4b022198f05f8e2.1394829332604.txt
http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140314/log.512ba416e4b022198f05f8e2.1394830091569.txt
http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140314/log.512ba416e4b022198f05f8e2.1394831147158.txt

Ugly logs. Commentary to come!

Thanks for the games Lekkit! Here are my comments:

Game 1: You had me beat from the start in this game. I was not happy at all with the 5:2 start since I originally wanted to go with a Fortress/Savager/Market Square strategy. And your Sea Hag certainly didn't help anything. Also, I did NOT have enough Fortresses. I really should have bought one on Turn 14. Your Stonemason trick for ending the piles at the end was pretty slick. And you had the game regardless.

Game 2: I think the key to me winning this game might have been the early Mountebank. It seemed to really hurt your deck. From there I got ahead in the Rebuild game and that was that.

Game 3: Here was a game where we clearly had different strategies, you with wharf/bank and me with university/$5card engine. And yours was much better. Mostly just because it was so much faster than mine, and also had less left up to chance. Good call.

Game 4: After getting 5/8 Tunnels I thought I would come out with the win here, but it apparently wasn't enough. Looking back I probably should have bought a Journeyman, I was just afraid of revealing warehouses. Your Pillage also seemed to work quite nicely for you. Close close game.
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liopoil

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: March 14, 2014, 06:33:43 pm »
+1

liopoil vs. Jean-Michel:

Game 1: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394832374120.txt
Tie. We pretty much mirror in this weird BM game. He says he got lucky, but I dunno, our decks look pretty even. 0.5-0.5
Game 2: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394833132998.txt
I got a lucky 5-2 split on a cultist board which was a big deal. My first cultist did miss the first reshuffle, but still, that was a big help towards getting more cultists and fewer ruins. 1.5-0.5
Game 3: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394833813085.txt
He goes for governors, I don't. He wins. 1.5-1.5
Game 4: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394834686704.txt
Very interesting kingdom, I'd like to hear from f.ds about this. I wasn't sure whether to go for silk road or provinces near the beginning, because while a silk road rush looks faster, there's embargo, and he opened with it. In the end we both went for provinces.  Because silk road was double embargoed. I got a lucky smuggle off his first gold, and in general I think my having two smugglers to his one really helped. I won, but I'm not sure exactly why... also, my potion buy near the end was really silly. I wanted a transmute for duchies, but that was way too slow. 2.5-1.5
Game 5: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394835558298.txt
Another lucky 5-2 split for me with IGG, and there was also moat which really hurt his sea hag, which I think only hit me once. I won the curse split 7-3, and the slowly piledrived the duchies for the win. I made a few mistakes, but the beginning carried me anyway. 3.5-1.5

Thanks for the games!
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KingZog3

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: March 14, 2014, 08:00:57 pm »
0

KingZog3 vs. Breezy. 4-2 for me.
I had to leave so fast after our last game Breezy, but I was already running late for something. Half- half with engine and slogs, but htey were fun anyway.


Game 1 Win

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1394826431612.txt



Code: [Select]
Embargo, University, Baker, Bazaar, Cartographer, Count, Duke, Harvest, Merchant Guild, Tactician
Here we both go for the Univeristy engine with Tactician, Merchant Guild, Bazaar and Cartographer to replace trashing. We both get ultiple Merchant Guild turns in play more than once. Personally I think the Bakers on Breezy's part were a waste of time and Bazaar is just as good, if not better here, since you want to ensure your ability to play all the Merchant Guilds. I manage to pull ahead in Provinces, and he can't keep buying Provinces for fear of me emptying them, despite his deck actually being good.

Game 2 Lose

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394827097905.txt



Code: [Select]
Cellar, Tunnel, Death Cart, Band of Misfits, Council Room, Cultist, Ghost Ship, Mystic, Fairgrounds, Bank
This one is embarrassing on my part. My first $5 was Ghost Ship, but then I decide to go for Cultists. Only after did I see Fairgrounds, and all the Ruins just made his Fairgrounds worth a ton. He also did Tunnel+Cellar and had enough Gold to keep buying VP. Breezy easily wins here.

Game 3 Win
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394828011515.txt


Code: [Select]
Bishop, Conspirator, Farming Village, Ironworks, Mining Village, Scavenger, Laboratory, Stash, Trading Post, Nobles
An obvious Laboratory engine with Nobles, Farming Village support. No +buy, the engine is fast and reliable. Bishop provides from trashing and extra VP and I really think my win was because I only bought 1 Silver and Breezy got 3. 3 less stopper cards is pretty important.

Game 4 Lose
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394828893636.txt



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Ambassador, Scheme, Village, Philosopher's Stone, Gardens, Horse Traders, Tournament, Baker, Margrave
A Tournament game, with good trashing, and coin tokens to easily get and connect Provinces. I think Princess is the best choice, but I took Diadem over Followers. I was thinking I could pass the curses back with Ambassador, except he was more aggressive with passing junk over and my deck just couldn't handle it. I resign eventually, as I think that his deck is just going to wreck me.

Game 5 Win

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394830115132.txt



Code: [Select]
Pearl Diver, Secret Chamber, Shanty Town, Noble Brigand, Procession, Council Room, Cultist, Minion, Rabble, Adventurer
The mother of all slogs. 35 turns long. This was due to Cultist as well as Minion later on. We both Use Procession, which is not bad here with the ability to trash Ruins as well as make good use of Cultist once the Ruins are gone. Adventurer is alright here too because you don't need to buy it and hitting $8 is tough with all the junk. Beezy thought that I would have been better off with Gold (I never got any) as opposed to Minions, but I disagree. It has great sifting, attacks and is still good money.


Game 6

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394831067586.txt



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Vagrant, Ambassador, Lookout, Feodum, Golem, City, Jester, Knights, Peddler
This one was another log one. 30 turns. There is some Knight battles, but I come out with 2 Knights and Breezy with none. In response, he goes Feodum and I get some Cities, which now have lots of draw. His Feodums work out pretty well, but I don't think it was the right way to go. I can still trash Silver and at some point it becomes harmful to lose Feodums, even with the on-trash effect. Even so, it was only in the last 3-4 turns that I solidified my win.

Thanks for the games Breezy! I enjoyed them, even the sloggy ones.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 11:15:38 am by KingZog3 »
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amalloy

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2014, 08:10:42 pm »
+1

KingZog3 vs. Breezy. I'll check back on drunkensailor later, I don't see the logs from today. These are the ones I remembered to grab after the games. I'll update with the other ones at some point. Both Breezy and I made our share of mistakes but they were good games. Sorry I had to leave so fast after our last game Breezy, but I was already running late for something.


Game 1 Win

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1394826431612.txt


Here we both go for the Univeristy engine with Tactician, Merchant Guild, Bazaar and Cartographer to replace trashing. We both get ultiple Merchant Guild turns in play more than once. Personally I think the Bakers on Breezy's part were a waste of time and Bazaar is just as good, if not better here, since you want to ensure your ability to play all the Merchant Guilds. I manage to pull ahead in Provinces, and he can't keep buying Provinces for fear of me emptying them, despite his deck actually being good.

Game 2 Lose

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394827097905.txt


This one is embarrassing on my part. My first $5 was Ghost Ship, but then I decide to go for Cultists. Only after did I see Fairgrounds, and all the Ruins just made his Fairgrounds worth a ton. He also did Tunnel+Cellar and had enough Gold to keep buying VP. Breezy easily wins here.

Game 3 Win

I'll post the log when it's up on drunkensailor.

Game 4 Lose
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394828893636.txt


A Tournament game, with good trashing, and coin tokens to easily get and connect Provinces. I think Princess is the best choice, but I took Diadem over Followers. I was thinking I could pass the curses back with Ambassador, except he was more aggressive with passing junk over and my deck just couldn't handle the Curses.

Game 5 Win

I'll post when I find the log, but I remember this one was sloggy. It was 35 turns long, lots of junking and just an all around slow game.

Game 6 Win

Honestly I can't remember this game. I'm sure I'll remember it when I see the log. Was this the Knights game? I think it was.

Thanks for the games Breezy! I enjoyed them, even the sloggy ones.

drunkensailor defaults to showing only Pro games, so you won't see your Unrated gokodom matches unless you ask.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394828011515.txt
Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394830115132.txt
Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394831067586.txt (yes, it was the Knights game)
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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2014, 08:41:45 pm »
0

my games against antigoth:

game1:
http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20140313/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1394744361060.txt

game2:
http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20140313/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1394745644569.txt

game3:
http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20140314/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1394840355614.txt

Not much too say here:
I feel that was a combination of fortunate shuffles for me and him being a bit less experienced in engine building.
His biggest mistake in at least 2 of the engine games was not to prioritize draw as much as needed.

GG and best of luck for the next round, antigoth!
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KingZog3

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2014, 02:26:00 am »
0



drunkensailor defaults to showing only Pro games, so you won't see your Unrated gokodom matches unless you ask.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394828011515.txt
Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394830115132.txt
Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140314/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1394831067586.txt (yes, it was the Knights game)

Thanks! I guess I don't use the log search enough to know that. I'll update my post at some point tomorrow when I'm awake.
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Jean-Michel

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2014, 05:46:57 am »
0

liopoil vs. Jean-Michel:

Game 1: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394832374120.txt
Tie. We pretty much mirror in this weird BM game. He says he got lucky, but I dunno, our decks look pretty even. 0.5-0.5
I think my 2 Lookouts were a good idea here. They countered Sea Hag well and also trash my coppers. My last turn was very lucky compared to yours.
Quote
Game 2: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394833132998.txt
I got a lucky 5-2 split on a cultist board which was a big deal. My first cultist did miss the first reshuffle, but still, that was a big help towards getting more cultists and fewer ruins. 1.5-0.5
Yes, losing Ruins split 7-3 did hurt. I almost caught up in the end, which surprised me. Your deck was far better though, so the result was your victory.
Quote
Game 3: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394833813085.txt
He goes for governors, I don't. He wins. 1.5-1.5
Governors are certainly the right call here. I probably started greening way too late but you did some mistakes with the Treasure Maps too, so this was a quite clearly my win.
Quote
Game 4: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394834686704.txt
Very interesting kingdom, I'd like to hear from f.ds about this. I wasn't sure whether to go for silk road or provinces near the beginning, because while a silk road rush looks faster, there's embargo, and he opened with it. In the end we both went for provinces.  Because silk road was double embargoed. I got a lucky smuggle off his first gold, and in general I think my having two smugglers to his one really helped. I won, but I'm not sure exactly why... also, my potion buy near the end was really silly. I wanted a transmute for duchies, but that was way too slow. 2.5-1.5
Yes, I should have bought at least 1 more Smugglers. This is really the dream board for them. Silk Road also had some support, but when I saw you opening with Bureaucrat I bought Embargo to prevent going for them. My other opening card should have been Smugglers instead of Bureaucrat. Your Smugglers ended up being a tad luckier than mine which sealed the game.
Quote
Game 5: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140314/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1394835558298.txt
Another lucky 5-2 split for me with IGG, and there was also moat which really hurt his sea hag, which I think only hit me once. I won the curse split 7-3, and the slowly piledrived the duchies for the win. I made a few mistakes, but the beginning carried me anyway. 3.5-1.5
My plan here was to split the Curses somewhat equally using the Sea Hags and then go for Provinces via Farmland. Sea Hags are also nice Farmland targets. The plan failed though because only 1 Sea Hag play was successful and I had to buy a couple IGGs to save myself from total debacle.
Quote
Thanks for the games!
You too.

I'm starting to get a bit depressed about my failure in this tournament - I am currently #63 on Isotropish leaderboard and still have managed to lose all three matches I've played. Well, at least the only way is up.  :-\
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2014, 06:28:29 am »
+1

faust vs. jmieden (joethemieden):

This match had lots of interesting boards, so I'm going to share them in more detail.

Game 1



Code: [Select]
Squire, Conspirator, Farming Village, Navigator, Scout, Treasure Map, Laboratory, Merchant Ship, Rabble, Bank
Log

The road here seems pretty obvious: FV/Rabble engine supported by Conspirators and Squire for +buy. My opponent goes for a strange double Squire opening here which must have been a mistake. He also gets too many Silvers. I am soon able to draw my deck and have five buys. From here, I can get to the win relatively safe.

Note: Farming Village counters Rabble nicely.

Game 2



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Crossroads, Apothecary, Familiar, Gardens, Spy, Talisman, Baker, Jester, Mandarin
Log

There's Familiar without trashers, which is a must-have. There's also some Gardens support in Talisman, and that's what we both go for. Notice that we both open 5/2 and go for Jester over Potion, not sure if that was the correct move. I'm able to snag an early Province, which basically gives me the win here.

Game 3



Code: [Select]
Secret Chamber, Urchin, Warehouse, Monument, Procession, City, Council Room, Mint, Farmland, Bank
Log

So, this was a difficult board, and I totally blew it here in the penultimate turn. Seeing the board, I really wanted to build an engine playing some Council Rooms for +buy and then attacking with Mercenary. Problem is - Council Room is the only +buy (well, and City at some point), there are no gainers, and Mercenary needs fodder. So I got LOTS of Council Rooms (in the end I empty the pile to activate my Cities), which allows my opponent to have a good 3-card hand every turn. The penultimate turn is really me losing the game because I'm lazy (I think). I believed I had one more turn and didn't bother to count whether I had the win, even though I probably did (turning Platina into Colonies with Farmland and buying lots of Provinces should have done it). Of course, he three-piles the following turn, and I lose.

Game 4



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Herbalist, Pawn, Ironmonger, Ironworks, Spy, Cartographer, Highway, Mint, Witch
Log

In this one, I simply got outplayed, no doubt. I think I can make an engine work and overcome Curses. I lose the Curse split and somehow decide it would be a good idea to Mint most of the economy that was left in my deck. From there on, my deck can do almost nothing, and my opponent gets his deserved victory.

Game 5



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Steward, Swindler, Bridge, Fortress, Remodel, Bazaar, Venture, Harem, Possession
Log

Again an engine board, with Steward as a central card for both trashing and drawing. Swindler, interestingly, is a trap here. Early on, I'm not hurt by Coppers turning into Curses because I want to trash them anyway, and when Swindler hits Fortress, that's +1 card, gain a card costing exactly 4 for me. After my opponent gives me a Potion this way, I'm able to incorporate two Possession into my engine, and victory is mine. I think that my opponent would have been better off not playing this with a BM-ish approach (his first 5-cost is Venture).

Game 6



Code: [Select]
Scrying Pool, Forager, Storeroom, Warehouse, Woodcutter, Bishop, Embassy, Pillage, Tribute, Forge
Log

There is great engine potential here with Scrying Pool and Storeroom. However, the board lack +actions. Luckily, we start with shelters, so there's Necropolis, which my opponent forgets about. He plays BM-ish style again, while I amass random action cards, most of which I never play, just to have something to discard with Storeroom. After I have some Scrying Pools, it turns out Tribute actually becomes a reliable source of +action!

Thanks to jmieden for the matches! You were an enjoyable opponent, and very patient through the bazillion restarts that were necessary. Good luck for the rest of the tourney!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 06:35:57 am by faust »
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

ravi

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2014, 02:13:52 pm »
0

Ravi defeats Aardshark 3-0

Game 1:
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140315/log.516cd034e4b082c74d7a014f.1394904580412.txt

Both went for Minions.  He tried to counter my Sea Hag opening with double watchtower and I think that caused too much collision.  He picked up a late Sea Hag to try to make up some ground but my deck was already doing pretty well by then.  Peddlers saved me a bit when I ended up with little to no money after a turn of shanty towns and I was still able to addd some value to my deck.

Game 2:
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140315/log.516cd034e4b082c74d7a014f.1394905769291.txt

Starts off with Ambassador ping pong for quite a while and then eventually he breaks through and gets some Minions.  I eventually grabbed a Beggar to just start going for money.  My throne rooms seemed to always link up properly too, but yeah I think I also made the right plays here.

Game 3:
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140315/log.516cd034e4b082c74d7a014f.1394906648222.txt

Chapel board with Baker, he opens 5/2.  I get quite a few more bakers than him before getting the Butcher to rid myself of the Chapel.  He is ahead all game and I think it is hopeless but I still grab a Dutchy somewhere.  At 4 provinces to 2 I realize I can double province if I butcher a gold and I think I just kind of get a lucky last play there.  I think he maybe could have taken this one if he was a bit more careful in the end and utilized his Butcher a bit better.

Good games Aardshark.  Also, Goko started us off correctly on every game which is cool when it happens!
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: March 15, 2014, 02:32:10 pm »
+2

Jaybeez defeats TheMirrorMan 3 - 1.

Game 1 : "Don't go for the dark forces" - Jaybeez begins, Jaybeez wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140315/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1394903273047.txt



Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Market Square, Storeroom, Trade Route, Cultist, Horn of Plenty, Market, Rebuild, Soothsayer, Adventurer
Well this already starts out nicely with a heavy board. Key cards : Trade route - Cultist - Rebuild - Soothsayer.

No real engine present - so I have a think. Of course I want rebuild and Trade route, but what to support it ? Going Market Square/Trade route immediately is an option, but it is so dependant on luck I believe.

So for both of us it's the cautious Silver/Silver. Then, as Jaybeez himself points out - the shuffle screws me. He gets 2 x $5 (2 Rebuilds), I get 2 x $4. Aargh. So it's time for alternatives, I'll need to shove his deck full of Ruins, go Cultist/BM and hope for the best. Which works - he gets all 10. To no avail. In the meantime he has 3 Rebuilds and does a walk over.

Game 2 : "Hunt down the deck!" - TheMirrorMan begins, TheMirrorMan wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140315/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1394904300162.txt



Code: [Select]
Quarry, Trader, Treasure Map, Baker, Ghost Ship, Hunting Party, Mine, Outpost, Rogue, King's Court
Baker so coin token already there. The plan is clear (for both of us) : Ghost Ship, Silver, then transition into Hunting Parties/KC and pick up some random stuff on the way.

Well it's a back and forth of hitting each others hands, and choosing KC or HP at the appropriate time. My shuffle this time rewards me - I hit Ghost Ship turn 3 and turn 4 I've got 5 coppers. And Jaybeez doesn't have a GS. So HP already. The rest is a bit shenanigans with what to do next - We both get Quarry, he gets Mine, I get Trader (not sure if that really is the right call here). Given lack of double buy, I pick up an outpost on the way - but it really doesn't make much difference. I can win the HP split 8/2 (even taking them with $7+) and that probably is it. I got lucky in return for game 1.

Game 3 : "Banes and lighthouses won't hurt my deck, but your Young witch will always hurt me" - TheMirrorMan begins, Jaybeez wins.

http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20140315/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1394904798621.txt



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Haven, Lighthouse, Woodcutter, Cutpurse, Island, Young Witch, Count, Royal Seal, Trading Post, Farmland
Courtyard is bane here and that's okay - not much other than going for BM. So doubtful. I decided to skip the Young Witch with Trading post/Count on the board.

I open Cutpurse/Courtyard, Jaybeez goes YW/Courtyard. So hey, I'm thinking - a few lighthouse along the way - that should do it no ?

Well, it doesn't. He plays YW on turn 3 and 5, hitting me twice. And strangely enough, I'm never able to effectively cut his purse. On $5 I think it's a good idea to go for Count and honestly, that doesn't work out at all. I think either Royal Seal or Trading post could have been better.

Sad to see how he has 5 gold in his deck in the end while I have 1. But I can't pinpoint where exactly this went wrong. Ideas, anyone ?

Game 4 : "The Minion split works. No it doesn't! Yes it does!" - Jaybeez begins, Jaybeez wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140315/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1394905865501.txt



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Warehouse, JackOfAllTrades, Smithy, Spice Merchant, Throne Room, Baker, Minion, Venture, Nobles
Now this is not the board I want to see if I want to win. Baker coin available and Minion on the board.

Plan is clear for the both of us : win the Minion split. We both open Warehouse/Minion. On turn 4 we're both faced with choices : I get $4, he gets $3. He takes another warehouse, I take the Spice Merchant. The double buy may come in handy at one point. I lose the split 6/4, but see nobles on the board, so decide to pick up a Crossroads inbetween to get the (thinned out) deck running. I win that split 6/2 and am in front for a few turns. In the meantime, he has now picked up a Spice Merchant.

Jaybeez and myself have the same observation : "Apparently the Minion split isn't THAT important" ?

And then, what I already saw coming ... My Spice Merchant starts running out of fuel. You can only refuel (extra copper) once each turn because there is no other +buy on the board. I think at one point, with $12, I needed some sort of 2 x Gold, but I'm not sure. His extra 2 Minions start giving him enough to buy Province + Duchy, while I only have 1 Province each turn. It gives him the upperhand. So yes, the Minion split IS important.

I think after getting the 4th Noble, I should have stopped and repositioned again. Lessons learnt.

Thanks for the games Jaybeez and good luck in the next round!

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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: March 15, 2014, 05:54:23 pm »
+2


Game 4 : "The Minion split works. No it doesn't! Yes it does!" - Jaybeez begins, Jaybeez wins.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140315/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1394905865501.txt



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Warehouse, JackOfAllTrades, Smithy, Spice Merchant, Throne Room, Baker, Minion, Venture, Nobles
Now this is not the board I want to see if I want to win. Baker coin available and Minion on the board.

Plan is clear for the both of us : win the Minion split. We both open Warehouse/Minion. On turn 4 we're both faced with choices : I get $4, he gets $3. He takes another warehouse, I take the Spice Merchant. The double buy may come in handy at one point. I lose the split 6/4, but see nobles on the board, so decide to pick up a Crossroads inbetween to get the (thinned out) deck running. I win that split 6/2 and am in front for a few turns. In the meantime, he has now picked up a Spice Merchant.

Jaybeez and myself have the same observation : "Apparently the Minion split isn't THAT important" ?

And then, what I already saw coming ... My Spice Merchant starts running out of fuel. You can only refuel (extra copper) once each turn because there is no other +buy on the board. I think at one point, with $12, I needed some sort of 2 x Gold, but I'm not sure. His extra 2 Minions start giving him enough to buy Province + Duchy, while I only have 1 Province each turn. It gives him the upperhand. So yes, the Minion split IS important.

I think after getting the 4th Noble, I should have stopped and repositioned again. Lessons learnt.

Thanks for the games Jaybeez and good luck in the next round!

You could have used one jack of all trades to fuel your spice merchant and build up to double province with throned minions.
with throne, warehouse, minion you could have even used the Jack(s) as draw for your engine. I think this should work even with only 4 minions.
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-Stef-

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: March 15, 2014, 06:24:26 pm »
+2

Game 1 crazy Possesion KC

11:10 - You need 7 points, so the duchy doesn't change anything. In stead, king the doctor to set up next turn and get an estate now.

Game 2

I think after getting 2 fishing villages, you (both) should switch to regular villages. As you mention in the end, his deck of just fishing villages isn't outpost-friendly at all, and i think you actually want the outpost. Also a lot more tricks with forge available, but they're easy to miss. I would trash down a bit more probably.

Game 3

After your great start, you should really get 2 quarries at $4, more urchins at $3 and probably just nothing at $2. The lighthouses get in the way at least as much as they protect.
I don't like all these silvers here.

Game 6 (double hag missing the shuffle just to kick me when im allready down)

2:48 - get a mandarin. Mandarin is good in this deck anyway, and you have 50% chance of splitting your sea hags and shuffling one back in.


Sorry for you about the misclick in game 5. Nothing to do after that to save that game. But in the others - especially game 1 & 6 - it's as though you let your misfortune block further thinking / looking for ways out. Breathe in, breathe out & play on ;)
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: March 15, 2014, 10:42:49 pm »
0

You could have used one jack of all trades to fuel your spice merchant and build up to double province with throned minions.
with throne, warehouse, minion you could have even used the Jack(s) as draw for your engine. I think this should work even with only 4 minions.

You are absolutely right Markowkette. I wanted to do this too fast and too furious. Curious that neither of us actually looked at it.

Maybe I need to follow Stef's advice above too : "Breathe in, breathe out, play on" :)
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Marin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 3 Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2014, 03:54:57 pm »
0

I won against HarryPeteur in 3 games.
Here are the logs :

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140316/log.516d4542e4b082c74d7b70a8.1394995733555.txt

We both did a embassy/fv engine but I did it earlier and won the fv split which won me the game i think.

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140316/log.516d4542e4b082c74d7b70a8.1394996870467.txt

A game with tournament, I thought the game was already lost when he got 2 province and me 0 but he get unlucky and I succeeded getting back into the game with my forge.

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140316/log.516d4542e4b082c74d7b70a8.1394997921537.txt

I tried to play remodel with shettler which didn't worked at all... Thanks to that he builded a deck much better than mine but with high lucky draw I won the game.
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