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Author Topic: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess  (Read 3137 times)

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Jean-Michel

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Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« on: March 02, 2014, 11:15:27 am »
+3

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140302/log.5162cba0e4b0e1a71501e85d.1393775028809.txt


Code: [Select]
Duchess, Moat, Doctor, Moneylender, Duke, Saboteur, Adventurer, Border Village, Hoard, Hunting Grounds
This was a really interesting and fun Duke mirror. There were several cards to support Duke - Duchess, Hoard and Border Village. I had a 5/2 opening and really didn't know what to do with it. Then I realized that buying a Duchy would give me a Duchess, so I opened Duchy, for the first time in my life.

My opponent (Rabid) tried to counter with Saboteurs which ended up not doing much (primarily trashing my Silvers). I didn't actually notice Saboteur at first and I was quite worried when he bought them. I wonder if I should have opened Saboteur/Duchess instead of Duchy.

I won the Duchy split 5/3 (probably because the Sabs were slowing him down) and he only manages to trash 1 Duchy and 1 Duke from me. I have the lead and buy the last Duchesses for the win.

I don't know why I won this. Was it luck, or was my opening better, or did I do tactically better decisions? Would another strategy have been better? I thought opening Doctor and going for engine for a while but then I got my super amazing idea of opening Duchy.

What could I have done better?
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DStu

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 11:41:14 am »
+1

I think Sab is a threadt here, if it comes from an engine.  You have moderate trashing with Moneylender and Doctor, the engine is expensive with BV and HG, but HG does not need as many actions to draw many cards, so it should not be too hard to play 3 Sabs/turn. Ignoring Duchy/Duke yourself, it should be hard for a Duke player to three pile soon, and the engine should destroy the Duke's deck.

edit:
Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'engine'
  author: 'DStu'
  requires: ["Border Village", "Hunting Grounds", "Moneylender", "Saboteur"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province" if my.countInDeck("Saboteur") >= 3
    "Moneylender" if my.countInDeck("Moneylender") < 1
    "Gold" if my.countInDeck("Gold") < 2
    "Silver" if my.countInDeck("Silver") < 2
    "Hunting Grounds" if my.countInDeck("Hunting Grounds") < Math.min(3, my.countInDeck("Border Village"))
    "Border Village"
    "Saboteur" if my.countInDeck("Saboteur") < 3
  ]
}
wins 6:4 against
Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'Duke'
  author: 'DStu'
  requires: ["Duke", "Duchess"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Duchy"
    "Duke"
    "Silver"
    "Duchess"
  ]
}
(both bots first tries not optimized.  Hunting Grounds might not exist as a card on the official dominiate server)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 01:11:46 pm by DStu »
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Awaclus

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 12:11:08 pm »
0

I think Sab is a thread here, if it comes from an engine.  You have moderate trashing with Moneylender and Doctor, the engine is expensive with BV and HG, but HG does not need as many actions to draw many cards, so it should not be too hard to play 3 Sabs/turn. Ignoring Duchy/Duke yourself, it should be hard for a Duke player to three pile soon, and the engine should destroy the Duke's deck.

edit:
Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'engine'
  author: 'DStu'
  requires: ["Border Village", "Hunting Grounds", "Moneylender", "Saboteur"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province" if my.countInDeck("Saboteur") >= 3
    "Moneylender" if my.countInDeck("Moneylender") < 1
    "Gold" if my.countInDeck("Gold") < 2
    "Silver" if my.countInDeck("Silver") < 2
    "Hunting Grounds" if my.countInDeck("Hunting Grounds") < Math.min(3, my.countInDeck("Border Village"))
    "Border Village"
    "Saboteur" if my.countInDeck("Saboteur") < 3
  ]
}
wins 6:4 against
Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'Duke'
  author: 'DStu'
  requires: ["Duke", "Duchess"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Duchy"
    "Duke"
    "Silver"
    "Duchess"
  ]
}
(both bots first tries not optimized.  Hunting Grounds might not exist as a card on the official dominiate server)
Hoard is pretty important for the Duke player, though.
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DStu

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 12:12:53 pm »
0

When would you buy it? After Duchies? First $6?
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Awaclus

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 12:26:24 pm »
0

When would you buy it? After Duchies? First $6?
First $6 probably, at least that's what Jean-Michel did.
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DStu

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 12:58:21 pm »
0

When would you buy it? After Duchies? First $6?
First $6 probably, at least that's what Jean-Michel did.

Still 6:4 with Hoard.

btw. implemented HoardHunting Grounds for dominiate, there is a pull request for andrew to put it on the server.
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shark_bait

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 10:22:20 am »
0

Cool Kingdom, thanks for posting.  What I love is that this kingdom merits discussion based not on the actual game but on the cursory glance at the kingdom.  Saboteur is a serious threat to Duchy/Duke strategies as there are so many juicy targets.  But you need a good engine to play enough Saboteurs.  Border Village is great here, Moneylender for trashing and Hunting Grounds for draw are all good, but the lack of +Buy is a pitfall.  Additionally there is Moat which can protect from the attack.  There's a lot to think about here.  I'm inclined to think that the Sab engine will come out on top.  A Duchy/Duke will stall out and be unable to buy out all of the Duchy/Dukes and being hit by Sab multiple times each turn will hurt.  The question is if a 3-Pile can be forced before the engine player switches to green.
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Jean-Michel

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 10:42:53 am »
0

While being good for the engine, Border Village can also be used as a decent defence against Saboteur. That's why I chose the Duke strategy.
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shark_bait

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 10:46:35 am »
0

With $5/$2 I'd also be really temped for the T1 Doctor overpay.  Especially with shelters, you have a good chance of trashing at least 1 of them right away making Doctor even more efficient for Copper trashing.  That should lead to very fast trashing that gets a multi-sab deck very quickly.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 08:11:01 pm »
0

I would have not opened Duchy/Duchess on this board. Actually, I would never open Duchy/Duchess on any Duke board. But, here a viable engine is present and Hunting Grounds is a good counter to Sab. 5/2 w/Doctor is very strong for just about any engine, at least from my experience.
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Monsieur X

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Re: Opening Duchy/Duchess/Duchess
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 03:31:29 am »
0

I agree with you, doctor seems to be very good te begin here with 5.
Thats very interesting between engine with saboteur and Big money.
I would probably choose doctor (to avoid having 2  next turn, and trash a little bit) and next big money with hoard (maybe 2 hoards), taking one or two moats as a (bad) drawer and to protect some saboteur's attacks
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