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Author Topic: What Card Am I?  (Read 47313 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2014, 11:34:57 pm »
+1

The Duchess/Abandoned Mine thing doesn't work because there's no reason to just suddenly split the Duchess in half.  I'm really not sure what you're getting at with that.
So why is there a reason to suddenly split the Throne Room in half?

Nowhere am I splitting TR in half.  Can you quote where you think I say that so that I can explain that part better?
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Awaclus

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2014, 11:39:53 pm »
0

The Duchess/Abandoned Mine thing doesn't work because there's no reason to just suddenly split the Duchess in half.  I'm really not sure what you're getting at with that.
So why is there a reason to suddenly split the Throne Room in half?

Nowhere am I splitting TR in half.  Can you quote where you think I say that so that I can explain that part better?

For example here:
Playing Throne Room + Militia (or generic card X) is like playing Militia (or X) and getting an extra +1 Card, +1 Action where the drawn card is a second virtual Militia (or X), which you then immediately play.

eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2014, 11:44:51 pm »
+1

The Duchess/Abandoned Mine thing doesn't work because there's no reason to just suddenly split the Duchess in half.  I'm really not sure what you're getting at with that.
So why is there a reason to suddenly split the Throne Room in half?

Nowhere am I splitting TR in half.  Can you quote where you think I say that so that I can explain that part better?

For example here:
Playing Throne Room + Militia (or generic card X) is like playing Militia (or X) and getting an extra +1 Card, +1 Action where the drawn card is a second virtual Militia (or X), which you then immediately play.

That's not splitting in half though.  That's doubling.  TR doubles a card -- that is literally what it does.  What I'm describing is an alternative way of thinking of it, where you are getting and playing a second copy of card X.  There is no splitting there.
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Awaclus

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2014, 11:51:05 pm »
0

The Duchess/Abandoned Mine thing doesn't work because there's no reason to just suddenly split the Duchess in half.  I'm really not sure what you're getting at with that.
So why is there a reason to suddenly split the Throne Room in half?

Nowhere am I splitting TR in half.  Can you quote where you think I say that so that I can explain that part better?

For example here:
Playing Throne Room + Militia (or generic card X) is like playing Militia (or X) and getting an extra +1 Card, +1 Action where the drawn card is a second virtual Militia (or X), which you then immediately play.

That's not splitting in half though.  That's doubling.  TR doubles a card -- that is literally what it does.  What I'm describing is an alternative way of thinking of it, where you are getting and playing a second copy of card X.  There is no splitting there.
But that is splitting in half. Throne Room's effect is doubling a card; or you can think of it in an alternative way where you split it in half and think of it as playing the card, then getting and playing a second copy of the card.

eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2014, 12:14:29 am »
+1

The Duchess/Abandoned Mine thing doesn't work because there's no reason to just suddenly split the Duchess in half.  I'm really not sure what you're getting at with that.
So why is there a reason to suddenly split the Throne Room in half?

Nowhere am I splitting TR in half.  Can you quote where you think I say that so that I can explain that part better?

For example here:
Playing Throne Room + Militia (or generic card X) is like playing Militia (or X) and getting an extra +1 Card, +1 Action where the drawn card is a second virtual Militia (or X), which you then immediately play.

That's not splitting in half though.  That's doubling.  TR doubles a card -- that is literally what it does.  What I'm describing is an alternative way of thinking of it, where you are getting and playing a second copy of card X.  There is no splitting there.
But that is splitting in half. Throne Room's effect is doubling a card; or you can think of it in an alternative way where you split it in half and think of it as playing the card, then getting and playing a second copy of the card.

It's not, because there is also the other card to consider.  Throne Room is standing in for one full copy of the other card.  What is being halved?

Also note that nothing is coming out of thin air.  We have TR and we have the other card, and the abstraction thinks of TR as the other card.  How does that work at all with Duchess and Abandoned Mine?  You have Duchess... and then randomly name Abandoned Mine for no reason?

I think we might be getting off track though.  :-\  You haven't actually commented on the explanation in this post.  Is that still confusing?
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Awaclus

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2014, 12:37:20 am »
0

It's not, because there is also the other card to consider.  Throne Room is standing in for one full copy of the other card.  What is being halved?

Also note that nothing is coming out of thin air.  We have TR and we have the other card, and the abstraction thinks of TR as the other card.  How does that work at all with Duchess and Abandoned Mine?  You have Duchess... and then randomly name Abandoned Mine for no reason?

I think we might be getting off track though.  :-\  You haven't actually commented on the explanation in this post.  Is that still confusing?
No, Throne Room is standing in for two full copies of the other card, and the other card becomes unusable. Playing a Duchess is pretty much the same as Throne Rooming an Abandoned Mine, except you lose one card instead of two and there's the self-spy thing.

Thinking of Throne Room as a pseudo-village that draws another copy of the card and plays both copies makes as much sense as thinking of Militia as a pseudo-cantrip that draws a Militia and then plays it.

I can agree with the +1 Action part, though.

eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2014, 01:08:58 am »
+1

It's not, because there is also the other card to consider.  Throne Room is standing in for one full copy of the other card.  What is being halved?

Also note that nothing is coming out of thin air.  We have TR and we have the other card, and the abstraction thinks of TR as the other card.  How does that work at all with Duchess and Abandoned Mine?  You have Duchess... and then randomly name Abandoned Mine for no reason?

I think we might be getting off track though.  :-\  You haven't actually commented on the explanation in this post.  Is that still confusing?
No, Throne Room is standing in for two full copies of the other card, and the other card becomes unusable. Playing a Duchess is pretty much the same as Throne Rooming an Abandoned Mine, except you lose one card instead of two and there's the self-spy thing.

Thinking of Throne Room as a pseudo-village that draws another copy of the card and plays both copies makes as much sense as thinking of Militia as a pseudo-cantrip that draws a Militia and then plays it.

I can agree with the +1 Action part, though.

That idea (TR = 2 copies, original copy unusable) is itself another abstraction.  It's a fine way of looking at it, but it's not the only way.  TR as pseudo-village is a common way of thinking of it.  Or you can look at it literally -- it plays the original card, then it plays it again.  That's the exact mechanic as written on the card.

TR as pseudo-village is not the same as Militia as pseudo-cantrip that draws Militia.  In this example, you have redefined Militia as a pseudo-cantrip, so even if it draws another Militia it will just be another cantrip.  If you really want to, you can think of it as a pseudo-cantrip that draws a completely different card that matches what Militia originally was... except that there is no reason to do so, and in the end that particular abstraction does not really change how you can think of the card.  It's like redefining an equation as the same equation multiplied by 1.  True, but essentially tautological.  The abstractions I gave are actually different (and still legitimate) ways of looking at TR, like explaining multiplication in terms of addition.

As for Duchess and Abandoned Mine... why did you suddenly bring TR into that example?  You were saying that Duchess fits the original riddle as well as Throne Room, except now you are pulling in two other cards out of thin air.
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GeoLib

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2014, 01:36:46 am »
+3

It's not, because there is also the other card to consider.  Throne Room is standing in for one full copy of the other card.  What is being halved?

Also note that nothing is coming out of thin air.  We have TR and we have the other card, and the abstraction thinks of TR as the other card.  How does that work at all with Duchess and Abandoned Mine?  You have Duchess... and then randomly name Abandoned Mine for no reason?

I think we might be getting off track though.  :-\  You haven't actually commented on the explanation in this post.  Is that still confusing?
No, Throne Room is standing in for two full copies of the other card, and the other card becomes unusable. Playing a Duchess is pretty much the same as Throne Rooming an Abandoned Mine, except you lose one card instead of two and there's the self-spy thing.

Thinking of Throne Room as a pseudo-village that draws another copy of the card and plays both copies makes as much sense as thinking of Militia as a pseudo-cantrip that draws a Militia and then plays it.

I can agree with the +1 Action part, though.

Error: Stack Overflow. Recursion Depth Exceeded.
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KingZog3

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2014, 09:25:21 am »
0

The Duchess/Abandoned Mine thing doesn't work because there's no reason to just suddenly split the Duchess in half.  I'm really not sure what you're getting at with that.
So why is there a reason to suddenly split the Throne Room in half?

Nowhere am I splitting TR in half.  Can you quote where you think I say that so that I can explain that part better?

For example here:
Playing Throne Room + Militia (or generic card X) is like playing Militia (or X) and getting an extra +1 Card, +1 Action where the drawn card is a second virtual Militia (or X), which you then immediately play.

That's not splitting in half though.  That's doubling.  TR doubles a card -- that is literally what it does.  What I'm describing is an alternative way of thinking of it, where you are getting and playing a second copy of card X.  There is no splitting there.

The rulebook says that it does not double. It explicitly says that. It plays the card twice, but does not double it.
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Awaclus

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2014, 11:41:35 am »
0

That idea (TR = 2 copies, original copy unusable) is itself another abstraction.  It's a fine way of looking at it, but it's not the only way.  TR as pseudo-village is a common way of thinking of it.  Or you can look at it literally -- it plays the original card, then it plays it again.  That's the exact mechanic as written on the card.

TR as pseudo-village is not the same as Militia as pseudo-cantrip that draws Militia.  In this example, you have redefined Militia as a pseudo-cantrip, so even if it draws another Militia it will just be another cantrip.  If you really want to, you can think of it as a pseudo-cantrip that draws a completely different card that matches what Militia originally was... except that there is no reason to do so, and in the end that particular abstraction does not really change how you can think of the card.  It's like redefining an equation as the same equation multiplied by 1.  True, but essentially tautological.  The abstractions I gave are actually different (and still legitimate) ways of looking at TR, like explaining multiplication in terms of addition.

As for Duchess and Abandoned Mine... why did you suddenly bring TR into that example?  You were saying that Duchess fits the original riddle as well as Throne Room, except now you are pulling in two other cards out of thin air.
But... it's not an abstraction. It's literally what happens. Throne Room makes you play the card twice, then you can no longer play the card.

Indeed, there is no reason to think of cards as cantrips that draw and play a card with the effect of the original card. I fail to see why Throne Room should be an exception.

And I'm not suddenly bringing TR into that example, the example has always been a comparison between Duchess and Throne Room, because they both have an effect that is pretty much "play an Abandoned Mine twice", if your Throne Room "target" is an Abandoned Mine.

Oh, and I did say that I agree with the +1 action thing, but I'm taking some of that back - I don't think it makes any sense to think of Throne Room like that unless you are Throne Rooming another Throne Room.

eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2014, 08:57:38 pm »
+1

Sorry for the derail, Nik.  Maybe this should be split into another thread.  Nonetheless, I press on...

The rulebook says that it does not double. It explicitly says that. It plays the card twice, but does not double it.

Just checked the rule book and it says nothing about doubling or not doubling.  TR doubles a card in that it results in one card getting played two times instead of one time.

But... it's not an abstraction. It's literally what happens. Throne Room makes you play the card twice, then you can no longer play the card.

Throne Room has you select a card, which you then play.  Then TR has you play it again.

This is similar to but still distinct from what you described: TR has you select a card, which is never played.  Then TR becomes two full copies of another card.  Note that you said that "the other card becomes unusable".  That's what makes it an abstraction.  That card does NOT become unusable.  That card is played.  But you are making an abstraction where "Throne Room is standing in for two full copies of the other card".

Another way to think about Throne Room is that it stands in for a second copy of the other card.  Having TR-X in hand is very similar to having X-X in hand.  It's not exactly the same, of course -- you can't play both X's if it's terminal, but you would get to play "both" with TR-X.  Or if X is non-terminal, TR-X will leave you with an extra action(s) afterwards compared to playing X followed by X.  So in this abstraction, you get an extra +1 action out of the TR itself.


Indeed, there is no reason to think of cards as cantrips that draw and play a card with the effect of the original card. I fail to see why Throne Room should be an exception.

But with TR, I'm not thinking of it as "a cantrip that draws and plays a card with the effect of the original card"!  In this sentence, the original card is Throne Room.  Rather, I am thinking of it as drawing and playing a card with the effect of whatever is played WITH Throne Room.  That's why your statement with Militia is confusing, and it's the point of GeoLib's Stack Overflow joke.


And I'm not suddenly bringing TR into that example, the example has always been a comparison between Duchess and Throne Room, because they both have an effect that is pretty much "play an Abandoned Mine twice", if your Throne Room "target" is an Abandoned Mine.

That comparison still makes no sense.  I explained (or at least tried to explain) how TR fits the riddle by referencing Throne Room and what the card effectively does.

Then you said that Duchess fits the original riddle just as well as Throne Room.  So to show this, you'd have to explain how Duchess matches each of the clues only by referencing Duchess itself.  You can't just randomly bring in Throne Room and Abandoned Mine into this explanation -- that's nonsensical!
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Awaclus

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2014, 10:17:52 pm »
0

This is similar to but still distinct from what you described: TR has you select a card, which is never played.  Then TR becomes two full copies of another card.  Note that you said that "the other card becomes unusable".  That's what makes it an abstraction.  That card does NOT become unusable.  That card is played.  But you are making an abstraction where "Throne Room is standing in for two full copies of the other card".

You have two Actions in hand, one is Throne Room and the other is Militia. You can choose to play Throne Room or Militia. If you choose Throne Room, Militia gets played twice and when Throne Room has finished, you no longer have a Militia that you can choose to play; playing it twice was Throne Room's effect, and after that, it became unusable.

Quote
But with TR, I'm not thinking of it as "a cantrip that draws and plays a card with the effect of the original card"!  In this sentence, the original card is Throne Room.  Rather, I am thinking of it as drawing and playing a card with the effect of whatever is played WITH Throne Room.  That's why your statement with Militia is confusing, and it's the point of GeoLib's Stack Overflow joke.

But the effect of playing a Throne Room is the effect of playing whatever is played with Throne Room twice. It's the same thing.

Quote
That comparison still makes no sense.  I explained (or at least tried to explain) how TR fits the riddle by referencing Throne Room and what the card effectively does.

Then you said that Duchess fits the original riddle just as well as Throne Room.  So to show this, you'd have to explain how Duchess matches each of the clues only by referencing Duchess itself.  You can't just randomly bring in Throne Room and Abandoned Mine into this explanation -- that's nonsensical!

If you explain Throne Room only by referencing Throne Room itself, it's a terminal action that doesn't do anything.

heron

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2014, 10:27:33 pm »
+1

Personally, I like to see Throne Room as giving +1 Card, +2 Actions actually.

Explanation:
Say you play Throne Room-Militia.
Cards were played three times, but it only took two cards from your hand. So it's like you got an extra card.
It also only took one action for three card-plays, so that's like +2 Actions.
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markusin

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2014, 10:28:19 pm »
0

Quote
Then you said that Duchess fits the original riddle just as well as Throne Room.  So to show this, you'd have to explain how Duchess matches each of the clues only by referencing Duchess itself.  You can't just randomly bring in Throne Room and Abandoned Mine into this explanation -- that's nonsensical!

If you explain Throne Room only by referencing Throne Room itself, it's a terminal action that doesn't do anything.
Yeah, I don't think Throne Room matches the first clue for this reason. It's always an Action.
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florrat

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2014, 01:33:59 am »
0

I request assistance.  Over in the puzzles forum, Nik posted a riddle.  The answer was immediately obvious to me, but nobody else seems to understand it.  I repeatedly tried to explain what is completely intuitive to me but I'm failing.  Am I just crazy?
Can we keep the discussion of which card fits or does not fit a very vague description in one topic?
The only correct answer to the puzzle is that no card fits the description, because it is internally inconsistent. So the question is for which card do you have to bend the description as little as possible. And that depends on which direction you bend the description. I think that there are a lot of cards where one can make some argument why that card fits the description better than other cards, but I also think that there's isn't a unique card which fits the description best in all aspects.
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Watno

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2014, 08:41:04 am »
0

Personally, I like to see Throne Room as giving +1 Card, +2 Actions actually.

Explanation:
Say you play Throne Room-Militia.
Cards were played three times, but it only took two cards from your hand. So it's like you got an extra card.
It also only took one action for three card-plays, so that's like +2 Actions.

Yeah, +1 card +1 action doesn't make sense. I can see considering it as +2 actions, +1 card, or as just +1 action, but both are probably missleading ways to think about Throne Room.
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silverspawn

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2014, 08:51:02 am »
0

cmon why are you complaining the discussion is way more interesting than the thread itself
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 04:39:29 am by silverspawn »
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eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2014, 05:16:39 pm »
0

This is similar to but still distinct from what you described: TR has you select a card, which is never played.  Then TR becomes two full copies of another card.  Note that you said that "the other card becomes unusable".  That's what makes it an abstraction.  That card does NOT become unusable.  That card is played.  But you are making an abstraction where "Throne Room is standing in for two full copies of the other card".

You have two Actions in hand, one is Throne Room and the other is Militia. You can choose to play Throne Room or Militia. If you choose Throne Room, Militia gets played twice and when Throne Room has finished, you no longer have a Militia that you can choose to play; playing it twice was Throne Room's effect, and after that, it became unusable.

Quote
But with TR, I'm not thinking of it as "a cantrip that draws and plays a card with the effect of the original card"!  In this sentence, the original card is Throne Room.  Rather, I am thinking of it as drawing and playing a card with the effect of whatever is played WITH Throne Room.  That's why your statement with Militia is confusing, and it's the point of GeoLib's Stack Overflow joke.

But the effect of playing a Throne Room is the effect of playing whatever is played with Throne Room twice. It's the same thing.

Again, you are thinking of Militia becoming unusable and TR standing in for two effects.  But you can just as well think of Militia being used and TR standing in for one effect.  These are different abstractions that have the same effective result.

Quote
If you explain Throne Room only by referencing Throne Room itself, it's a terminal action that doesn't do anything.

Not quite.  The text on Throne Room also talks about another card, so referencing TR itself includes referencing another card.  The key here is that this other card is never specified, and this remains true in all my explanations.  (Clarification: I have tried giving examples with specific cards, but those explanations work just as well with any generic card X, which I have also used at times.)



Quote
Then you said that Duchess fits the original riddle just as well as Throne Room.  So to show this, you'd have to explain how Duchess matches each of the clues only by referencing Duchess itself.  You can't just randomly bring in Throne Room and Abandoned Mine into this explanation -- that's nonsensical!

If you explain Throne Room only by referencing Throne Room itself, it's a terminal action that doesn't do anything.
Yeah, I don't think Throne Room matches the first clue for this reason. It's always an Action.

It's a riddle though.  The riddley explanation for when TR isn't an "Action" is when it isn't matched with another action card, in which case TR does nothing.


I request assistance.  Over in the puzzles forum, Nik posted a riddle.  The answer was immediately obvious to me, but nobody else seems to understand it.  I repeatedly tried to explain what is completely intuitive to me but I'm failing.  Am I just crazy?
Can we keep the discussion of which card fits or does not fit a very vague description in one topic?
The only correct answer to the puzzle is that no card fits the description, because it is internally inconsistent. So the question is for which card do you have to bend the description as little as possible. And that depends on which direction you bend the description. I think that there are a lot of cards where one can make some argument why that card fits the description better than other cards, but I also think that there's isn't a unique card which fits the description best in all aspects.

I posted in the Random thread because this was mostly just me and Awaclus going back and forth.  It was getting too repetitive and clearly neither of us were explaining our thoughts well to the other, so I thought some more voices would help.  Moreover, it was the RANDOM thread.  Nothing is off-topic there, so I don't see an issue.  I didn't start a brand new thread or anything...

Anyway, yes, I agree that any answer to a riddle HAS to make some odd interpretations and strange leaps, sure, and you can certainly argue that different cards are better fits depending on the particular take you have on the riddle.  I'm not particularly arguing that TR is the absolute best fit (though I do believe this is so).  I'm just trying to show that Throne Room is a reasonable fit for the riddle.
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eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2014, 05:20:53 pm »
0

From the random thread:

And yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you either, I don't think that there's anything wrong with the logic. I just think that there isn't a particular reason to ever use that logic, and that you can use that logic to justify any Action card as an answer for the puzzle, not just Throne Room (well, at least for the +1 card, +1 action part; you still need to come up with a reason why the Action card is also not an Action card).

The logic does not work for any other card (other than Procession).  If you apply it to another card like Militia, adding in a virtual cantrip (as you did in an earlier argument), the net effect of that virtual cantrip is nothing at all.  But the net effect with TR really does produce a phantom +1 action, the same way it appears with Cultist or Herald.  It appears because the card itself has you play another card without spending any actions.

The thought process for +1 card is a bit more of a stretch, so I'm giving up on explaining that.  But the phantom +1 action is pretty clear for TR, I think.
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Awaclus

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2014, 05:32:31 pm »
0

The logic does not work for any other card (other than Procession).  If you apply it to another card like Militia, adding in a virtual cantrip (as you did in an earlier argument), the net effect of that virtual cantrip is nothing at all.  But the net effect with TR really does produce a phantom +1 action, the same way it appears with Cultist or Herald.  It appears because the card itself has you play another card without spending any actions.
Yeah, the phantom +1 action is a part of Throne Room's effect. But you're adding the virtual cantrip there in addition to that.

Witherweaver

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2014, 05:37:38 pm »
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From the random thread:

And yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you either, I don't think that there's anything wrong with the logic. I just think that there isn't a particular reason to ever use that logic, and that you can use that logic to justify any Action card as an answer for the puzzle, not just Throne Room (well, at least for the +1 card, +1 action part; you still need to come up with a reason why the Action card is also not an Action card).

The logic does not work for any other card (other than Procession).  If you apply it to another card like Militia, adding in a virtual cantrip (as you did in an earlier argument), the net effect of that virtual cantrip is nothing at all.  But the net effect with TR really does produce a phantom +1 action, the same way it appears with Cultist or Herald.  It appears because the card itself has you play another card without spending any actions.

The thought process for +1 card is a bit more of a stretch, so I'm giving up on explaining that.  But the phantom +1 action is pretty clear for TR, I think.

It seems like the closest analogy to a hand of Throne Room, Militia, X, X, X is Village, Militia, Militia, X, X.  Play Throne Room on Militia, you're left with 0 actions and X,X,X.  Play Village, Militia, Militia, you're left with 0 actions and X,X, and new X. 

I agree with Throne Room as a virtual +1 action.. you play it, plus another action card.  The +1 card thing kind of shows itself in the hands compared above.. it's like+1 card where that card is another Militia.  Though that seems a bit like an accounting trick to me. 

Of course, since the net effect (modulo reshuffles and counting action cards in play) is Militia is played twice and you have a hand of X,X,X, you could also argue Throne Room is +1 card, +2 actions (where the extra card must be a Militia (or the target) and both actions must be spent on both Militias (or targets).

I still feel Golem and Venture fit better than Throne Room :)
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eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2014, 06:03:38 pm »
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The logic does not work for any other card (other than Procession).  If you apply it to another card like Militia, adding in a virtual cantrip (as you did in an earlier argument), the net effect of that virtual cantrip is nothing at all.  But the net effect with TR really does produce a phantom +1 action, the same way it appears with Cultist or Herald.  It appears because the card itself has you play another card without spending any actions.
Yeah, the phantom +1 action is a part of Throne Room's effect. But you're adding the virtual cantrip there in addition to that.

No, those were separate abstractions.  The virtual cantrip metaphor was (attempting to) explain how it fits the +1 card clue.  When you play TR-X, you get a second card X played.  It's like the TR drew you that second X, and in that way it's sort of like +1 card.  Yes, it's a bit of a stretch.

The same logic does not apply to other cards because you aren't getting anything extra out of your virtual cantrip. 

If you now recognize the phantom +1 action, then I think that's enough for me, hahaha. :P

I still feel Golem and Venture fit better than Throne Room :)

That's fair.  I just don't think there is a satisfactory explanation for how Golem isn't an action.  IIRC, the only explanation that came up was that golems themselves are objects, i.e. a noun rather than a verb... but I don't like that because it applies to most cards.  As for Venture, I think it's a bigger stretch to call it an action than anything I described with TR.  But I guess that's subjective. :P
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Witherweaver

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2014, 06:12:38 pm »
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I still feel Golem and Venture fit better than Throne Room :)

That's fair.  I just don't think there is a satisfactory explanation for how Golem isn't an action.  IIRC, the only explanation that came up was that golems themselves are objects, i.e. a noun rather than a verb... but I don't like that because it applies to most cards.  As for Venture, I think it's a bigger stretch to call it an action than anything I described with TR.  But I guess that's subjective. :P

Yes, that's a stretch, but it's perfectly valid in a riddle.  I mean, go up to someone on the street and ask them if a golem is an action.. they'll tell you i't's a thing (after looking at you like you're crazy).  And venture is a verb.. and the card itself performs an action.. you play it, you do stuff. 
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eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2014, 06:24:34 pm »
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I still feel Golem and Venture fit better than Throne Room :)

That's fair.  I just don't think there is a satisfactory explanation for how Golem isn't an action.  IIRC, the only explanation that came up was that golems themselves are objects, i.e. a noun rather than a verb... but I don't like that because it applies to most cards.  As for Venture, I think it's a bigger stretch to call it an action than anything I described with TR.  But I guess that's subjective. :P

Yes, that's a stretch, but it's perfectly valid in a riddle.  I mean, go up to someone on the street and ask them if a golem is an action.. they'll tell you i't's a thing (after looking at you like you're crazy).  And venture is a verb.. and the card itself performs an action.. you play it, you do stuff.

Asking someone on the street is out of context though.  Venture is also a noun, and I think in context it makes more sense as a noun rather than a verb.  But yeah, alright, it's a riddle and all.  Subjectivity!  ;D
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KingZog3

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2014, 06:38:42 pm »
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Actually I think the answer is Scout. It's an action, but not an action. It gives plus cards, but it doesn't give plus cards. And if gives +1action, but who cares really.
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