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Author Topic: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!  (Read 22043 times)

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Jorbles

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #150 on: March 18, 2014, 03:13:33 pm »

Quote
@pops: How are we handling tiebreakers? (Or are we just allowing ties).

For instance let's say Grujah's highest HD unique killed was Sigmund (3), and Walrus killed Ijyb (also 3, if you can believe it), and Dowan (also 3). Is that a tie?
Deepest floor of the main dungeon is still a tiebreaker amongst those two situations
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 04:38:07 pm by popsofctown »
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shraeye

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #151 on: March 18, 2014, 03:14:37 pm »

What is HD?
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Jorbles

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #152 on: March 18, 2014, 03:21:57 pm »

What is HD?

Hit dice, it's basically how you measure the levels of monsters.
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shraeye

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #153 on: March 18, 2014, 03:26:23 pm »

I've never seen such a thing; how does one find those numbers?
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #154 on: March 18, 2014, 03:27:18 pm »

Grujah do you want to just post your picks now that we've selected? I'm impatient and I want to start meditating on the nature of my character hehe. Here's the PM I sent pops, in spoilers just in case.

If you don't...well I'm sure we'll find out soon enough anyway.

Windexela...this was actually a tough choice. Buttons seems theoretically awesome, but I suck with Nemelex. I'm better with Tengu, but I don't trust their Invocations for DK. Could go either way on this one. In fact I've already changed my mind twice, but Windexela is fine.

Mortaraid...duh

Tradewinds...doesn't sound too bad in theory. Kiting + Lightning bolts = Kitening bolts.

Vadeler...this guy seems viable enough. I like Trolls and dislike Ogres

GrimRipper...no I will not play an Ogre VM thank you

Whistles...Redwalla seems too clunky for a Kobold, although I do love the premise.

NobleBrigand...yeah

Rarity...I believe in the Healer class. And Bloopex hath failed me

Randyosh...I love monks. C'mon Xom don't be a prick


Also, are Dowan and Duvessa like incestuous lovers, or what? Maybe I just don't understand the familial closeness of elven society
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Jorbles

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #155 on: March 18, 2014, 03:34:49 pm »

I've never seen such a thing; how does one find those numbers?

I always look them up on the crawl wiki (http://crawl.chaosforge.org/). They might be viewable somewhere in game, maybe when you look at creatures descriptions? I've always just looked them up before.
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Grujah

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #156 on: March 18, 2014, 03:37:04 pm »

@J - since when do we compare HDs of Uniques? I didn't see that.

@Walrus - this is what I've sent to pops, you fell right into my trap, as you will note in Pair 6 text.



Quote
Pair 1
Buttons: Monotheistic Kobold Artificer of Nemelex Xobeh
Windexela: Tritheistic Tengu Death Knight of Yredelemnul, Xom, and Trog, spear in talons

Tengu is fine, but Buttons looks like perfect Artificer, just what you want. Main issue is that I am inexperenced with both Xobeh and Artificer class.


Pair 2
Mortaraid: Bitheistic Gargoyle Earth Elementalist of Kikubaaquadgha and Elyvion
Crematologus: Monotheistic Ghoul Fire Elementalist of Sif Muna

Reading up on Ghouls teaches me that they ain't THAT bad casters as I though. Still, they suck at fire and while Sif is better god choice, I think Gargoyle with his Earth affinity is better here.


Pair 3
Anchors: Bitheistic Merfolk Necromancer of  Ashenzari and Nemelex Xobeh
Tradewinds: Monotheistic Centaur Air Elementalist of Ashenzari

Merfolk aren't that good with Necro, and gods are not ideal. Still, Cent has even worse god choice and while HP and speed is very valuable, not too keen on playing a Cent Mage.

Pair 4
Capugue: Tritheistic Ogre Venom Mage of Yredelemnul, Elyvion, and Ashenzari
Vadeler: Bitheistic Troll Necromancer of Makhleb and Yredelemnul

Ah, this one.
Ogre is generally better at magic and a faster learned (better XP apt) than troll, but not as hardy.
Troll actually has better Necro stat that Ogre's Poison one, but his spellcasting is horrid. Good thing is that you get to worship Makhleb. Can be played as a mostly melee guy with harder start and some necro support.

Pair 5
Krunk: Bitheistic Ogre Venom Mage of Kikubaaquadgha and Xom
GrimRipper: Bitheistic Demonspawn Assassin of Kikubaaquadgha and Yredelemnul

DS isn't the stealthiest race out there, but god choices are decent and it's quite playable.

Pair 6
Whistles: Bitheistic Deep Elf Air Elementalist of Okawaru and the Slime God
Redwalla: Monotheistic Kobold Fighter of Elyvion, short sword in hands

DEAE is a beast. God choices are aweful. Oka at least gives some decent armor, I guess but is completely useless otherwise. I'd probably go with Jiyva actually, ugh. If at least it was a High Elf so I could do a decent Hybrid.
KoFi with sword is decent, Elyvion isn't the worst thing out there, some good panic buttons. He sucks with armor, you'd have to scrap that, I think. He is also frail for straight melee, to an extent, but Elyvion helps there. Gaining piety with his seems to be a bitch too.
Hmm... This was the one I decided on last, definitely hardest one. In the end, KoFi seems a bit more clunky. But my mind says he is better and that armor thing is easier to overcome that I am making it and that god can work. Still frail. Hearth goes with DE. I grew attached to DEs and he can get the slime rune easily if it gets to there.
This would be a lot easier if Walrus just chooses Windexela in the first pair and I kick his butt (instead me cursing when I lose because of a bad choice here. :P)

Pair 7
NobleBrigand: Tritheistic Human Hunter of The Shining One, Kikubaaquadgha, and Vehemut, crossbow in hands
Slink: Bitheistic Ghoul Gladiator of Lugonu and Sif Muna, quarterstaff in hands

Hunter is fine. TSO's stabbing restriction is a pain in the butt, but depending on your start, other Gods are a good choice as well.
Ghoul it just a mess, not sure how much do you need a QStaff, Gods are completely useless.. JUST NO.

Pair 8
Drarge: Bitheistic Octopode Necromancer of Ashenzari and Okawaru
Rarity: Monotheistic Centaur Healer of Elyvion

Octo Necro is decent combo. Gods are less than ideal, again. Walrus gonna choose this, he likes Octos.
Centaur Healer seems powerful but SO BORING. Walrus went to D:8 with his last Octo run. Can this guy do better? I think YES.

Pair 9
Raskolnikov: Tritheistic Kobold Death Knight of Yredelemnul, Kikubaaquadgha, and The Shining One, hand axe in hands
Randyosh: Monotheistic Draconian Monk of Xom

Both are decent, but I have to choose the funner one.
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shraeye

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #157 on: March 18, 2014, 03:37:57 pm »

Hmmm, I'm not planning on looking anything up.  So that kinda frustrates my strategy if that's the main determiner of 'winning'.
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Jorbles

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #158 on: March 18, 2014, 03:38:46 pm »

Also, are Dowan and Duvessa like incestuous lovers, or what? Maybe I just don't understand the familial closeness of elven society

I never really interpreted it that way, I thought they were just close siblings. I'd probably be pretty upset if one of my relatives (who I do not have incestuous relations with) were murdered in front of me by some random adventurer.
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Jorbles

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #159 on: March 18, 2014, 03:39:33 pm »

@J - since when do we compare HDs of Uniques? I didn't see that.

Shraeye will now face Jorbles, and Grujah will face Walrus McFish. 

I'm going to change the rules slightly for the second round, with the goal of bringing head to head strategy closer to normal single players strategy. 

Firstly, a modification of the definition of how successful a run is:
Quote
Less important than rune count and identity, and more important than main dungeon exploration, is "best (highest HD) unique thoroughly defeated".  There are many things you can ~do~ to a unique in crawl, so ~defeat~ can seem a subjective term.  This how "thoroughly defeated" is defined for our purposes:  If you received an amount of experience based on the unique's HD or identity, and you also caused its item drops to be accessible to you, you have thoroughly defeated it.
If the unique dies and doesn't drop any items, it has to have died in a way that you would be able to get 1 gold if it had had 1 gold in its pocket.
You don't have to actually collect the drops.
Receiving experience based on its HD means that its HD has to be a cause of why you gained how much experience you actually did.  For instance, draining a monster will subtract 1 from its HD and give you slightly less experience, but since (HD-1) is based on the original HD, that counts.  Polymorphing a monster transforms it into another monster with HD that is based on its former HD, so if you then kill that new monster, you'll get experience based on the unique's HD.

Slimify converts a monster into a slime that always has a fixed, low HD, so if you kill that slime and receive experience, it doesn't count because that's not tied to the unique's HD.

As a fun, extreme case, you can roll a Merfolk Abyssal Knight, Banish Ijylb to the Abyss (which gives you 50% of the normal amount of experience as killing it, tied to the normal value), then banish yourself to the Abyss, watch a neutral monster confuse Ijylb, watch Ijylb walk into deep water giving you no additional experience, then walk away and it counts, because as a Merfolk you can swim in deep water to collect Ijylb's drops, and you received experience based on Ijylb's HD back when you banished it.

And as a second rules modification, to nerf slime god a bit and hopefully let it see play
Quote
In addition to the low priority rule, if one of your gods is the slime god, the slimy rune of zot does not count towards your rune total unless you have two or more other runes.


As a special note, these two rule tweaks have a small link: While the passivity of the royal jelly is less useful for bolstering your rune count, you can however take a legendary dagger, drink a potion of might, and brutally brutusly stab the royal jelly in the back to improve your "best unique thoroughly defeated".  The slime god and the other slimes on the floor might not like that at all, but if no one else kills an HD21 unique...
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Grujah

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #160 on: March 18, 2014, 03:40:02 pm »

1 and 3 are only disagreements.
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Jorbles

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #161 on: March 18, 2014, 03:46:31 pm »

Hmmm, I'm not planning on looking anything up.  So that kinda frustrates my strategy if that's the main determiner of 'winning'.

Well runes are still the main determiner as far as I know. This is just the determiner if we don't reach any runes.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #162 on: March 18, 2014, 03:52:55 pm »

Ahaha, but what you don't realize Grujah is you have fallen into my DOUBLE trap! Buttons is a NOMBO...Death bird power will win the day!

Haha, I like how we both described KoFi as "clunky". Anchors vs. Tradewinds could have been interesting too.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #163 on: March 18, 2014, 03:53:52 pm »

Also, are Dowan and Duvessa like incestuous lovers, or what? Maybe I just don't understand the familial closeness of elven society

I never really interpreted it that way, I thought they were just close siblings. I'd probably be pretty upset if one of my relatives (who I do not have incestuous relations with) were murdered in front of me by some random adventurer.

Haha, maybe I just have a disturbed mind. I definitely got more of a "lovers" vibe from them before I looked it up.
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shraeye

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #164 on: March 18, 2014, 04:14:37 pm »

question.

What's the difference between a +1, +1 mace, and a +0,+2 mace?  What do those numbers mean?
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Grujah

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #165 on: March 18, 2014, 04:32:41 pm »

First number is accuracy bonus, second is damage bonus.

Same goes for rings of slaying. Damage is usually more important.
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shraeye

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #166 on: March 18, 2014, 04:37:41 pm »

I've got a minotaur figher who's super AC'ed up (25 right now) and I'm trying to see if the 0,2 weapon of protection is better than the 1,1 weapon of protection.  Or if a 2,4-weapon is good enough that it's worth losing the 'of protection'.  They're all the same thing, axe, or mace...can't quite remember off the top of my head.
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popsofctown

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #167 on: March 18, 2014, 04:38:53 pm »

Buttons will go into battle, maybe you guys figured it out
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Jorbles

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #168 on: March 18, 2014, 05:13:49 pm »

I've got a minotaur figher who's super AC'ed up (25 right now) and I'm trying to see if the 0,2 weapon of protection is better than the 1,1 weapon of protection.  Or if a 2,4-weapon is good enough that it's worth losing the 'of protection'.  They're all the same thing, axe, or mace...can't quite remember off the top of my head.

They're all better in different situations. If something is hard to hit, the extra accuracy is better, but if something is easy to hit, the damage is better. I guess if something is both hard to hit and hard to kill the damage would probably be better because then when you hit you you'd have a better chance of killing them. Those numbers (1,1 vs 0,2) aren't really different enough that it'll make much difference though, it's a bigger deal when you're comparing something like (4,2 vs 0,7). As long as you aren't having to rest too often you're probably doing fine. I think there's some damage types that go through AC (smiting?) and if you are fighting those things the pure 2,4 weapon would be better against them since your AC isn't going to do much for you. I try to carry around a few different weapons to switch between as the situation demands it, but it's usually more determined by the brands. Usually you have time to switch while gaps get closed (or you duck around a corner).

If I'm playing a caster than "of protection" is great because I don't expect things to get to close to me very often, or the only things I plan on meleeing are weak things (rats and the like). If I'm playing a melee based character than I want a more offensive brand probably (of freezing, of draining, of fire, vorpal, of electrocution, of poison, of anti-magic) and that's going to depend on what dungeon branch I'm in. Certain areas have more characters vulnerable to certain types of damage.
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popsofctown

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #169 on: March 18, 2014, 07:34:20 pm »

Quote
@pops: How are we handling tiebreakers? (Or are we just allowing ties).

For instance let's say Grujah's highest HD unique killed was Sigmund (3), and Walrus killed Ijyb (also 3, if you can believe it), and Dowan (also 3). Is that a tie?
Deepest floor of the main dungeon is still a tiebreaker amongst those two situations
I accidentally editted this instead of quoting it in a new post

Runes and rune priority are still the biggest trump, aside from the even bigger tasks of collecting the orb of Zot and showing the orb of Zot that there is a bright shiny world outside the dungeon.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 07:35:26 pm by popsofctown »
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popsofctown

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #170 on: March 18, 2014, 07:36:48 pm »

+0/+1 is almost always better than +1/+0.  The game itself implies that because Enchant Weapon Scroll I's are more common and give you +1/+0, and Enchant Weapon Scroll II's are less common and give you +0/+1.
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Grujah

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #171 on: March 18, 2014, 08:33:56 pm »

Jeez, most disapointing Orc:4 ever.

A quite hard level, a spiral structure in middle swarming with enemies (including a warlord, some sorcs and high priests). There I found 2 potion shops, 1 scroll shop (no acquirement) and 1 armor shop with no armor I can wear.

Sigh.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #172 on: March 18, 2014, 08:43:48 pm »

I hope this isn't already Buttons we're talking about...
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Grujah

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #173 on: March 18, 2014, 08:53:03 pm »

Actually will be keeping Buttons Progress secret till the end.

This is SpEn.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Dungeon Crawl Tournament - dominificated - 1 Match complete!
« Reply #174 on: March 18, 2014, 09:00:38 pm »

Hahaha yeah I thought so. That would have been intimidating.
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