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Author Topic: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread  (Read 25343 times)

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ashersky

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2014, 07:59:46 pm »
+1

Thanks for the games markusin!
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2014, 07:16:35 am »
0

In my match against Marin there was a $2P Familiar fail, a game in which Marin outplays me, a game in which I outplay Marin and finally this gem:



Code: [Select]
Moat, Black Market, Watchtower, Workshop, Conspirator, Treasure Map, Bazaar, Ill-Gotten Gains, Witch, Possession

Black market deck cards: Gardens, Hoard, Horn of Plenty, Spy, Navigator, Feast, Rogue, Council Room, Rats, Pirate Ship,
Masterpiece, Throne Room, Woodcutter, Oasis, Noble Brigand, Merchant Guild, Warehouse, Horse Traders, Fairgrounds,
Grand Market, Hunting Grounds, Forge, Tactician, Apprentice, Nobles

There's nothing terribly exciting in the Black Market, so I skip it and go pretty much BM Witch.  24 turns later, with 5 Provinces and 5 Duchies, I lose by 3 points.  That's right, Marin wins because both of Fairgrounds and Gardens are in the Black Market deck.

Looking back, although the Black Market deck has no stand out cards, there's just enough to make it worth going into.  There are Buys (which the Kingdom lacks), trashing (the game would have been over much quicker if Marin had hit $4 for Rats on his fourth turn, and Forge will do a serious job clearing up the Curses if you also manage to grab Tactician or some other draw) and of course all of this boosts the value of the lone Fairgrounds.
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Marin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2014, 08:21:56 am »
+1

I won 3-1 against Qmech with I think 2 really interesting game.
The first one was a classic familiar game, you miss your potion, you lost! So I won this only by luck...
The second one was interesting, there are tunnel + embassy one of the strongest combo of the game but really boring too...
Qmech went for it when I went for a engine based on menagerie + outpost (outpost is still totally underrated I think...), I think my strategy was way more powerful (menagerie with horse trader + embassy for discard works really well).
The third one was not as much stupid as first one but not that much interesting neither (no + action and no throne room.. ^^), we both went for a grand-market + warehouse strategy but he did it way better than me and finally got the game...
The last one was really the game that I preferred. Black market is one of my favorite card, I think I always buy at least one of them every game, moreover when watchtower is on the board.
I think I got pretty unlucky at the beginning (I have got my blackmarkets together twice early) so I thought that the game was already lost... but at the end, Qmech get no luck at all (he got 3 times 6 and 2 times 7 in the last 5 turn...) which allows me to get the victory.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2014, 06:56:24 pm »
+1

Aardshark ties Trogden the Burnator in 6 games:

Game 1 (Aardshark 1st, tie)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140228/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393643434227.txt
Board has fishing village but no great card drawing. Warehouse money with fools gold seems like the best strategy, but when he fights me for fools gold I let him have 6 and look for opportunities to trash mine to trade routes or counterfeit, or convert to golds. Game is tight. I win the province split, but an extra duchy and me trashing my estates give him the tie.

Game 2 (Trogdor 1st, Aardshark wins)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140228/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393644086426.txt
Board lacking in + actions. We both go for money based strategies. Journeyman pushes me over the edge as a pseudo smithy, allowing me to take the 5th province turn 14. 

Game 3 (Trogdor 1st, tie)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140228/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393646000856.txt
Interesting board with powerful actions, including, hunting pack, urchin, highways, and golem, and lighthouse. We build similar decks, though he goes for potion and golem, which I forgo. I trail most of the game, but somehow catch up at the end to tie. 

Game 4 (Aardshark 1st, Trogdor wins)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140228/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393647692650.txt
I try to build an engine built around menagerie + inn, but can't get it going. Trogdor crushes me with possession combined with a better economy. As the graph shows I trailed the whole game, and after turn 17 my position is unrecoverable. Even though he was in the lead, Trogdor resigned this game because he had to leave, and intended to concede the match to me. I gave the game to him because there was literally no way for me to win, and suggested we adjourn our match for our final two games, which we did. 

Game 5 (Aardshark 1st, Aardshark wins)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140302/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393796087434.txt
Trogdor wins the minion split, but I get wharfs going quickly after minions run out and have a slightly better economy. Think Trogdor's deck got bogged down with alt vps that didn't quite net him enough.

Game 6 (Trogdor 1st, Trogdor wins)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140302/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393797207121.txt
Board lacks coherent engine. Cards like swindler, jester, and courtyard put us both on money based strategies. We split dutchies and provinces, but trogdor won this slog with three extra estates. Fitting end to a very tight match.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 06:57:45 pm by aardshark »
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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2014, 06:34:46 am »
+2

Game 3:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393634666564.txt


This looked to be a pretty clear Minion engine game, with Pawn for support and Ambassador for deck thinning, but no action splitters to allow for much else. Horse Traders was present too, so it wasn't all bad. I emphasize deck thinning more than my opponent does, and I think it pays off in the end.
You have made same mistake several times: play Minion for $2, when you already had enought coins for what you bought and that Minion allowed your opponent to reveal Horse Traders. It would be better not to play Minion in that situation.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2014, 02:29:25 pm »
+2



Game 1
I know some people tried to insult Golem recently, but I still think it's a very good card.
It turns regular engines into super engines, and slogs into sort-of-engines.
I'm not going to claim that it brought me victory here, because my opponent started greening just way too early, but I do think it's an essential part of the winning strategy.



Game 2 is a trash-down-and-get-the-prices festival.
He trashes down on his turn 7, not the winning choice.
However, I also misplay my turn 7. At that point I have 1 province to 0, and I know the remaining 5 cards of my deck have that province with 2 tournaments.
I also know he can't have $8 as long as I have that tournament to block. Then I play the upgrade, opening a small window for the only way I'm ever still going to lose this game: draw that province dead now. When not playing it is a sure win, why risk it?



Game 3 he goes straight for IGG. I'm lucky to connect my urchins on the first attempt, but straight IGG has to be wrong either way. The trashing of Mercenary is just too good, and in the end IGG is just a Silver wannabe.


Thanks for the games EgorK. I'm sorry these were not your best games... none of them got really close. Good luck in the next rounds though.
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Jdaki

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2014, 05:07:07 pm »
0

Game 1:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1393870977400.txt
My turn 2 Noble Brigand trashes his silver and nothing else major happens as Vault-BM goes smoothly to the end

Game 2:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1393872695336.txt
Governor powered-Goons engine- He goes for the Governor into Provinces route which loses to the more powerful VP engine, though he is one buy off the win near the end.

Game 3:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1393873069723.txt
I think a turn 1 Embassy buy just gives your opponent too much of a headstart and in a straight draw BM match up, that little extra money- especially via the Harems, and some luck on smooth 8 hands gives me another win.

Some reasonably interesting boards, and a nice match, though probably Lady Luck was rather more lenient with me than azadin today.
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amalloy

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2014, 12:08:58 am »
+1

amalloy defeats Delirious Deleuze 3-0.



Game 1



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Great Hall, Sage, Scheme, Urchin, Gardens, Procession, Remake, Ghost Ship, Tribute
I didn't see anything here much better than Ghost Ship BM, but Remake helps thin early, and Scheme is a big addition: Scheme the Remake early for super-fast trashing, and then later Scheme the Ghost Ship to keep the pressure on. I got some very nice draws with my early buys, and things just came together pretty well.



Game 2



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Ambassador, Oracle, Ironworks, Scavenger, Scout, Explorer, Governor, Mint, King's Court
It seemed pretty clear to me to go KC/Governor after an Ambassador opening to thin down, but the details of how best to get that going are still not at all clear to me. But eventually I got initiative on Governors, which got me the first two King's Courts, and then the first explosive turn, and at that point it was very hard for my opponent to recover. One interesting point in the endgame, though: I had planned to use my Governors to remodel piles of gold into provinces, but had forgotten that with KC on board, my opponent could remodel into provinces during my turn as well! My opponent seems not to have spotted that, as even at the very end he kept his two KCs in hand; that wouldn't have won him the game, but it would have been closer, given that he started greening before I did.



Game 3



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Apothecary, Scrying Pool, Chancellor, Develop, Armory, Harvest, Knights, Wharf, Expand
Here we were both unsure of how to approach the kingdom. I decided to go for mainly Wharf/money, figuring that if he went for knights I'd have enough economy to pivot into knights fast enough to not lose that split; but I didn't want to spend precious actions on playing knights if I could help it.

Well, he went for knights, and got quite lucky with them: got two of the best, and then hit my Wharf on his first try. Eventually I rallied and had enough knights that I felt comfortable going back to Wharf/money. But my opponent started picking up Expand, and was able to use them to great effect: the game ended much faster than my mediocre money deck was ready for, as he was aggressively remodeling into province before I had enough money for colony; and I couldn't get provinces either without helping end the game.

I just barely squeaked by in the end, after a tense couple of turns in which there was only one province left and neither of us could get it. In fact, my opponent could have ended it on a win on turn 25, by expanding Province into Province and buying Estate for the 1-VP margin (he had the VP counter on, so we were both aware of the tactical situation).


Anyway, thanks for the pleasant match, Delirious Deleuze, and good luck in the rest of the tournament!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 12:12:11 am by amalloy »
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michaeljb

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2014, 01:25:20 am »
+2

Game 1
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1393910918232.txt

A Familiar board, also featuring Governor, Stonemason, Cartographer, Fishing Village, and Library. I go heavier on Cartographers, AHoppy gets some Fishing Villages + Library. After the Curses were distributed, the game transitioned into more Governor-centric fare, and I was just able to eke out the win, drawing what I needed for a double Province at the end.

AHoppy 23-35 michaeljb


Game 2
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1393911570125.txt
AHoppy picks up a Soothsayer with the 5/2 opening, but I prefer to use Noble Brigand to take his Gold and buy IGGs to give him Curses, so I pass on the Soothsayer. Treasures are flying back and forth, and AHoppy comes out with greater wealth. I had a decent lead for a while, but couldn't hold it.

On my turn 21, with a hand of 2 Silvers + 3 Coppers, I planned to buy a Farmland and remodel Copper into Estate, but somehow very stupidly played all my treasures except a Silver. Then on turn 28, I was down by one point and could have bought the last Farmland, remodeling an Estate to the last Noble Brigand, and I would have lost on turns. Possibly that earlier missed Farmland would have hurt one of my hands enough that my final turn wouldn't have been as close, but man that's frustrating to see.

michaeljb 28-32 AHoppy


Game 3
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1393912122719.txt

I get beaten around pretty badly by AHoppy's Swindlers early on; even my first play isn't great--I drew both Trader and Swindler and could have Traded an Estate, instead Swindled AHoppy's Copper into Curse which he Traded for Silver. My Soothsayer was taken out almost immediately, but things began to turn around when my Soothsayer-turned-Duchy met up with my Trader, and I got 5 Silvers out of the deal. After that, I basically rode Caravans, Oases, and draw from AHoppy's Soothsayer to victory.

michaeljb 38-20 AHoppy


Game 4
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1393913081278.txt

An awkward board that, like Game 1, starts out Cursers (Young Witch here) before transitioning to something else. That something else for me was Menagerie+Highway+Butcher+Bishop. OK so they don't all go together, but using Bishop still helped Menagerie even if its point production was hurt by Highway, and Highway was important at the end. AHoppy didn't get trashed down enough, and had fewer engine pieces than me, enabling me to pull away in the last few turns.

AHoppy 27-47 michaeljb

Series final: michaeljb 3-1 AHoppy

Thanks for the games, AHoppy, it was a good time. Best of luck in the rest of the tourney! :)

edit: also thanks to Kirian for extending round 2 in light of the server transition! Completely wiped out our original meeting time  ;D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 01:27:19 am by michaeljb »
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2014, 03:36:50 pm »
+4

AdamH defeats Psyduck 3-0
YouTube video playlist link
Entire stream on Twitch


Game 1: Psyduck 21, AdamH 32
Game log
YouTube video link



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Vagrant, Sage, Wishing Well, Mining Village, Quarry, Ghost Ship, Altar, Farmland, Goons
With Ghost Ship and Goons flying around, and only weak/expensive draw and trashing available, this one wasn't going to be much fun. It's a mirror so the game likely will come down to who can play more Goons. We go mostly for the same thing but I get a second Quarry and my second Goons earlier and I'm able to focus a little bit more on villages as a result of it. Also, he prefers Sage where I prefer Wishing Well as a soft counter to Ghost Ship. As second player I feel very much behind after the first few shuffles but I'm still keeping up, and eventually I'm able to get two double-Goons turns to win the game.

He trashed his Mining Villages aggressively toward the endgame, which should have made me want to make the game longer to be safer, but after my first double-Goons turn I feel comfortable going more aggressively for piles and it works out. This game took over a half hour and was kind of exhausting, and it was only the first one!

Re-watching this game, I realize that my endgame wishes are pretty bad. I know it isn't easy, but it's so hard to know what the right wish is to make. I only got a glimpse of the chat in between games (and I forgot to save it off later like an idiot, but from what I saw it would have been hard to match it to what was going on in the game anyways) so maybe they were talking about it then.


Game 2: AdamH 48, Psyduck 35
Game log
YouTube video link



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Vineyard, Duchess, Doctor, Hermit, Masquerade, Mining Village, Spy, Taxman, Rogue
So do you go for a Vineyard-based slog or just Masquerade+BM? It's a really tough call for me but after a shuffle I decide to just play money. Maybe it isn't very good but all of the things you can gain are terminal, there are no villages other than Madman, and there's no +Buy. Psyduck, on the other hand, has both of his opening buys miss his shuffle and is way behind, so he goes for Vineyards. Before we've both committed to our strategies, I waffle a bit in the middle and pick up a Taxman which isn't terrible probably isn't very good. Later when it's clear I need to get all 8 Provinces to win I go with a Hermit for Silver-gaining and trash the Taxman at no cost (which has to be lucky for me).

His deck works pretty well and comes close in the endgame, but I never feel like it's close enough for me to get Duchies so I come away with what looks like a clear win where my position is good throughout, but I really wonder if Vineyards is the better strategy here? He was far behind in the beginning with his first shuffle, and he also said he had some Potion collisions.


Game 3: AdamH 33, Psyduck 29
Game log
YouTube video link



Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Chapel, Develop, Fishing Village, Loan, Advisor, JackOfAllTrades, Scavenger, Margrave, Rebuild
What a board, here! Rebuild with Estates and strong support with Jack, Fishing Village, and even Scavenger, but there's a super-fast engine to play here too with Chapel, FV, Jack, and Margrave (with Scavenger to support it). I decide that if it's possible for an engine to beat Rebuild then this is the board for it, so I go engine. I figure if I lose this game then I'll just quit Dominion forever because of Rebuild (just kidding). He goes for Rebuilds with support and the race is on.

Things go relatively well for both of us. I think my only mistake in this game is picking up a second Jack just for Silver gaining, which eventually caused me to have a dud hand and not get Fishing Villages in play -- this probably slowed me down a couple of turns. Maybe more Margraves for draw would have helped with this?

I think a critical turn in the midgame, though, was where I took the time to empty the last three Duchies from the pile. It turned out this was a really clutch move that hurt Psyduck quite a bit and gave me the pace I needed to stake out enough of a lead that my broken engine could just limp across the finish line (since he didn't have that much hope of buying Provinces). Mostly I was just really excited to play an engine that beat Rebuild with strong support.


So as I mentioned before, I forgot to grab the chat transcript to look over. From what I remember when I scanned over the chat, I saw them criticising my every small mistake (which is so amazing to have good players do that, I'm not even being sarcastic) and talking with each other about the match. I'm not sure what I could have gotten out of it after the match was over, but I'm really glad that a lot of people showed up to watch. I'm hoping they got a lot out of it and it seems they did. I think this match got more viewers than I've ever had at once on my channel, so thank you so much to everyone that watched and chatted! I even played a few extra games for fun with some people in the chat after the match was over and there was talk of having a quick Best-of-one "tournament" among the people there. That would be lot of fun to set up, even though I don't know how feasible it is.

I played Psyduck in the semifinals of the Team World Cup and it was a really tough match, he's a very good player and I knew I had to be on my game. In that match, I won the first three games and he won the last three, which in that format was a tie. I have no doubt that he would have won the next three games here if we could play them :P . I know I'll be going up against 2-0 people next round but I feel like this match might still be tougher than next week's. Consider that a challenge to prove me wrong...

Thanks again to Kirian for the one-week extension, we got pretty hosed by the Goko update and I would have been disappointed if we couldn't play this match, and it's just gravy that I got to stream it. Streaming tournament matches is turning out to be really successful and I'm looking forward to more of it.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 09:06:36 am by AdamH »
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2014, 03:42:50 pm »
+2

Thanks for the interesting games and postgame chats, Adam. I just got kicked out of Goko so I couldn't say bye.
I'm going to add some comments as well, probably tomorrow. First I want to watch your videos to see if my assessment of the games is correct.

Edit: I've had some time to think about the matches, and review the logs and videos.

Game 1 Game log
During the game I felt that my terminals and my villages weren't distributed very favorably (meaning either collisions or village chains). Now I feel my draws were actually a bit better than Adam's, so there is no point blaming shuffle luck in this game. Rather, I noticed three differences in our play, which finally decided the game:

- Second Quarry. Adam got one, I didn't. Simple story. :) It helped a lot getting Goons and then buying stuff with Goons in play.
- Second Goons. Adam got his very early, while I bought my second as an act of desperation when it was already too late. I should have gotten it instead of Altar, which was a distraction (also for Adam later). Goons was the key card here to score points, so having more than one helped scoring points more frequently and made strong double Goons turns (of which Adam had two) possible. Furthermore, Goons was the stronger attack compared to Ghost Ship at least in the second part of the game, as both of us had multiple cards that countered Ghost Ship (see next point).
- Wishing Well instead of Sage. Both did a good job countering Ghost Ship. Wishing Well lets you return the two cards to your hand (which is good if you have a strong hand), Sage lets you skip two cards (which is good if you have a weak hand). The usual disadvantage of Sage didn't apply here, as we didn't aim at green cards that much. So the best play may have been to start with some Sages to draw past the Coppers and Estates and then switch to Wishing Wells again when the density of good card has increased. Instead, Adam went for Wells, I went for Sages. However, I underestimated the control Wishing Wells offer you for designing your turns. In comparison, I was stuck with the Sages drawing just the next 'good' card.

These were my minor mistakes, I think, but on this level you just don't get away with these.

Game 2 Game log   
So here we have Masquerade-BM vs. Vineyards. The first one is quite good, but Vineyards clearly lack support. No +buy, no spammable cheap cards like Vagrant, Wishing Well, Sage (see last game ;) ), Candlestick Maker, Haven, Menagerie, Great Hall etc. And the only gainer is Hermit, which is terminal and lets you only gain cards that cost up to $3, which in addition are quite bad here: Doctor and Duchess, and of course Hermit (which of course is not a bad card at all, but in this context not optimal either). Ah, yeah, and there is Transmute. So I decide to go with Masquerade-BM and take some risk as second player in what seems to become a mirror. My second starting card is Hermit to trash faster and gain Silvers. But then they don't only collide, they do so in turn 5. After three turns I'm so much behind it's not even funny. Thus I switch to Vineyards and buy a Potion, expecting Masq-BM to get some problems buying all the Provinces.
Of course Masq-Hermit is not an optimal start for Vineyards. Hermit is good, but I'm not sure what the best start would've been. Mining Village? Another Hermit? Even Spy? Potion already?
Our goals are clear now, but I think both of us don't play it optimally. I don't like Adam's Taxman, but his Hermit did a good job for his longevity. My biggest mistake is to buy the Vineyards too late. I really needed all of them, but only got 5. I needed more Potions early, and Transmute should've been a Vineyard already. In addition, I completely messed up a turn with Mining Village, Mining Village, Hermit, Potion, Copper in hand. I wanted to buy Vineyard anyway, so playing Hermit, gaining Hermit, buying Vineyard would've been the correct play. Instead I got greedy, played the Mining Villages (hoping for more Hermits), triggered the shuffle and drew..Potion and Silver. :( Here I lost two Potion plays.
I'm not sure if I'd had a chance to win the game if I had played that better, but now I certainly didn't have.
Also, Adam played it very well (except for the Taxman :P ), staying calm and building enough economy to get to 8 Provinces reasonably quick.


Game 3 Game log
This game has been already been subject of discussion during the last days. There is not much more to add from my side. I don't believe I played my Rebuild optimally, but Rebuild was the wrong decision here anyway. I was just afraid Rebuild could be too fast with all that support, so I went for it myself. That was a mistake. Adam played the engine instead, and won.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 11:06:53 am by Psyduck »
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2014, 09:09:58 am »
+1

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2014, 12:00:22 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

I think that likely gives you an advantage: For me, its hard to be 100% focused on the game even while playing.
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2014, 12:39:11 pm »
+2

I watched all three games, well done, Adam!

In this first game, I do think you erred big time in trying to shorten the game. You were always going to win long, but there was a chance you could have an off turn and lose by quickly draining piles. So I do think that was a mistake... after he trashed his Mining Villages, he basically had no long game chances, so if I were you I would have taken Duchy/Vagrant on that turn where you emptied the Wells instead.

The second game, I mostly agree with you, and I THINK BM Masq will always seal the deal there, although it can be close. I really didn't like your Taxman, though. Should have been a Hermit. You did swap them out quickly though.

The third game is the biggest question mark in my mind, because I did not leave it convinced that Rebuild should actually lose there! It was not Engine vs. Rebuild, it was Engine vs Double Jack/Rebuild. Psyduck's hybrid strategy was always going to lose. But is Rebuild + Scavenger going to lose to your engine? I don't think so. I mean, while it's definitely a good engine, it still sort of lacks something to do. If Scavenger were Bridge or Monument or Merchant Guild, then yes, engine 100%. But as is, I don't know.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2014, 12:47:47 pm »
0

The third game is the biggest question mark in my mind, because I did not leave it convinced that Rebuild should actually lose there! It was not Engine vs. Rebuild, it was Engine vs Double Jack/Rebuild. Psyduck's hybrid strategy was always going to lose. But is Rebuild + Scavenger going to lose to your engine? I don't think so. I mean, while it's definitely a good engine, it still sort of lacks something to do. If Scavenger were Bridge or Monument or Merchant Guild, then yes, engine 100%. But as is, I don't know.

I'm surprised to hear you say all of this: gaining Silvers with Jack and drawing your deck with FV+Margrave and buying provinces seems like something to do...

...and I thought Jacks were good support for Rebuild, am I just mistaken here? Maybe one Jack instead of two? He did play with a Scavenger, too, I think. I admit I wasn't paying close attention to how he got there, I was just paying attention to what he could do.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: March 05, 2014, 12:50:36 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
Yeah I can understand that. I think I actually focus on the game MORE when recording matches.

In general, I focus pretty heavily on the game. For this reason, I don't use the sidebar chat available in the new Salvager update. I'll always see the messages late, never knowing exactly what moment is being referred to by my opponent. In fact, I might never notice the chat messages at all if they are on the side, or on the top right corner as they are in Isotropic Innovation.

So yes, I prefer Goko's chat window opening up to block my cards over the sidebar chat.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: March 05, 2014, 12:53:16 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
Yeah I can understand that. I think I actually focus on the game MORE when recording matches.

In general, I focus pretty heavily on the game. For this reason, I don't use the sidebar chat available in the new Salvager update. I'll always see the messages late, never knowing exactly what moment is being referred to by my opponent. In fact, I might never notice the chat messages at all if they are on the side, or on the top right corner as they are in Isotropic Innovation.

So yes, I prefer Goko's chat window opening up to block my cards over the sidebar chat.

I should have been more clear, the bolded "the chat" above is referring to the Twitch chat, not the Goko chat. But yes I see your point.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: March 05, 2014, 01:08:53 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
Yeah I can understand that. I think I actually focus on the game MORE when recording matches.

In general, I focus pretty heavily on the game. For this reason, I don't use the sidebar chat available in the new Salvager update. I'll always see the messages late, never knowing exactly what moment is being referred to by my opponent. In fact, I might never notice the chat messages at all if they are on the side, or on the top right corner as they are in Isotropic Innovation.

So yes, I prefer Goko's chat window opening up to block my cards over the sidebar chat.

I should have been more clear, the bolded "the chat" above is referring to the Twitch chat, not the Goko chat. But yes I see your point.
I knew what you meant, but it's the same problem. Probably worse actually. I haven't used twitch to stream though, so I don't know exactly where the twitch chat is positioned on Your screen.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2014, 01:18:14 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
Yeah I can understand that. I think I actually focus on the game MORE when recording matches.

In general, I focus pretty heavily on the game. For this reason, I don't use the sidebar chat available in the new Salvager update. I'll always see the messages late, never knowing exactly what moment is being referred to by my opponent. In fact, I might never notice the chat messages at all if they are on the side, or on the top right corner as they are in Isotropic Innovation.

So yes, I prefer Goko's chat window opening up to block my cards over the sidebar chat.

I should have been more clear, the bolded "the chat" above is referring to the Twitch chat, not the Goko chat. But yes I see your point.
I knew what you meant, but it's the same problem. Probably worse actually. I haven't used twitch to stream though, so I don't know exactly where the twitch chat is positioned on Your screen.

When I play tournament matches it's minimized so I don't look at it. The only other window that's up is OBS so I can easily tell if my stream craps out.

When I stream normally, I have Dominion on one monitor and Twitch chat on another; but I'm usually playing more casually, and I frequently have my opponent on Skype, and usually several other things going on too.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2014, 02:37:56 pm »
0

The third game is the biggest question mark in my mind, because I did not leave it convinced that Rebuild should actually lose there! It was not Engine vs. Rebuild, it was Engine vs Double Jack/Rebuild. Psyduck's hybrid strategy was always going to lose. But is Rebuild + Scavenger going to lose to your engine? I don't think so. I mean, while it's definitely a good engine, it still sort of lacks something to do. If Scavenger were Bridge or Monument or Merchant Guild, then yes, engine 100%. But as is, I don't know.

I'm surprised to hear you say all of this: gaining Silvers with Jack and drawing your deck with FV+Margrave and buying provinces seems like something to do...

...and I thought Jacks were good support for Rebuild, am I just mistaken here? Maybe one Jack instead of two? He did play with a Scavenger, too, I think. I admit I wasn't paying close attention to how he got there, I was just paying attention to what he could do.

Okay, but what's the best thing your deck can do? The answer is, double Province, and reliably Margrave your opponent. The Margrave attack is annoying but not hugely detrimental to your opponent. Double Province is good, but you need like 10 Turns of building to get there. And your deck isn't amazingly reliable. You draw it one turn, and then don't draw it the next.

I'm skeptical whether Jack is all that good for Rebuild, but anyway, Rebuild + Scavenger is a thing. Your opponent picked up the Scavenger after messing around with Jacks for a while. That's not the way to do it.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: March 05, 2014, 02:49:07 pm »
0

I could very well be wrong, but I think people are discounting Rebuild a little too much these days. To beat it, the engine has to be either very fast, or really explosive, and yours was neither. On the other hand, Scavenger is one of the only cards providing relatively significant support to Rebuild.
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