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Author Topic: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread  (Read 22946 times)

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Max7272sp

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 11:03:00 pm »
0

Max7272sp defeats Bama 3-1

Game 1 Bama wins 58-57

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.50b8f6aee4b015dcbac5eee2.1393470676315.txt

I honestly thought I had won this game - probably should have bought a duke instead of a gold in the midgame.

Game 2 Max wins 31-25

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.50b8f6aee4b015dcbac5eee2.1393471165488.txt

Rebuild game - getting 5 twice on my first shuffle sealed it.

Game 3 Max wins 36-25

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.50b8f6aee4b015dcbac5eee2.1393471937717.txt

Game 4 - Max wins 54-27
http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.50b8f6aee4b015dcbac5eee2.1393472639345.txt

taking the ironmonger split 6/4 helped me here
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2014, 01:48:47 am »
0

Game 4 : "The temptation of a lady" : TheMirrorMan wins.

Sometimes you see that card where you think : I really need this. This will give me a decisive advantage.
We both have 5/3 split (baker coin token). And I see ... Miss Molly on top of the knights. But damn, J-M is to start. He gets Masquerade/Mountebank ... and ... yes, I can buy my beloved Dame Molly and two Masquerades to throw the junk of the mountebank back, right!

Well, let's see, what is wrong with this plan ...
1) There is no stuff to trash in the deck yet!
2) Where am I going to get money from ? Well, free coppers from the Mountebank of course </end sarcasm>
3) My Masquerades collide 2 times ...

As the VP chart shows, J-M starts racing quickly and I'm stuck behind with a card that hits nothing special. Is this the end of round 2 ... ?

And then, in the end, I pull off one of the biggest tricks ... I'm 7 behind, so I can't go out ... But then I masquerade over a curse (and don't get one back), swinging 2 points and buying the last Province.

I have no idea how I pulled this off, but my apologies were sent to my opponent.

You could've got lucky to trash his masquerade or mountebank on t3 or 4 which would've been huge. But that is just a minor point. The crucial difference - imo - is the stables split of 5-2 in your favour. It's not out-of-space-unlikely that you somehow draw Molly and both masquerades together. Note that most of the time you had less coppers than he had, despite him giving you coppers via MB. He got quite unlucky in the beginning. However, from your description, I would've anticipated a much higher VP difference but he was ahead by just 1 province +/-2VP.

It's not the VP difference as such that was annoying, but that he's at 4 Provinces at turn 16 and I'm at 2. I HAVE to buy the remaining two provinces now with him being able to focus on Duchies... and then I need to chase that too (I even bought Dame Josephine to hope to be able to trash some of those). I just have the feeling I desperately cling on here. And when you're desperate, everything looks huge :)

I agree that the Stables build up was good, but I let him get away too far given my opening.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 03:39:44 am by TheMirrorMan »
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2014, 05:04:16 am »
+5

first of all, our match was amazing because we never had to restart.  1st player got put in first every time.  Now to the games

e defeats pst 3-0



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Procession, Rats, City, Count, Haggler, Venture, Goons, Grand Market, Forge
44-37 e wins

We have all sorts of good cards here.  City (but only good when upgraded), haggler, venture, goons, Grand Market, Forge.  However, no good source of +cards.  We both open silver/silver, and we both hit 6 on t3/t4.  He has 1st player advantage.  I actually kind of forget about forge, know that I need trashing, so go straight for a count.  He gets a goons.  I get fortunate and am able to trash 3 cards with count (meaning he didn't play goons when I had count in my hand) on t5 and t9, which trashes 3 estates and 3 coppers.  Also, on t8 I was able to play haggler to get a forge+Grand Market.  It snowballs from there.  I win the city split.  I start heavy trashing with forge.  I pick up my goons.  The big thing here is trashing though.  Early trashing is more important that early goons.



Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Storeroom, Familiar, Advisor, Monument, Thief, Counterfeit, Counting House, Grand Market, Forge
8-0 e wins
He opens 5/2, which is kind of unfortunate on a board where you want to go potion/storeroom.  I do the potion/storeroom, pick up a few candlestick makers and familiars, get way ahead on curses.  Also, I am saving up tokens for a forge, but am buying another key card here- advisor.  When you are able to have a small enough deck, advisor is huge in being able to draw everything, especially when you have your forge in hand and they let you keep your junk, which you trash for better cards.  I get ahead and finish it on 3 piles



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Hamlet, University, Trade Route, Coppersmith, Death Cart, Young Witch, Band of Misfits, Harvest, Junk Dealer, Mint
66-41 e wins

No real +cards, no real power cards, but we have a colony game.  University is not really good either because there is nothing good to gain (we both ignore university).  The key here is trashing again.  I get a 5/2 and open junk dealer/hamlet.  He takes a young witch and a silver.  His young witch hits me the first few times, but I keep buying junk dealers.  I get 3 junk dealers before my first gold.  I get a fourth shortly after it.  I pick up a BoM to use as Death Cart as a possible way to trash my extra Junk Dealers, but at worst it will just be a hamlet.  At the end of t14 I am where I want to be: 3 Junk dealers, 2 BoM, 2 hamlets, 2 golds, 2 platinums.  I pick up a mint before I start greening, and end up with a safe win.


Moral of the story: Trash, Trash, and Trash some more.  Thanks for the games pst.
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thetig333

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2014, 03:20:57 pm »
+4

TheTig333 defeats burtsbees 4-2

I am very new to this, so any comments/advice would be GREATLY appreciated! Here are the scores/kingdoms/logs/comments:

Game 1: burtsbees wins 41 - 35



Code: [Select]
Tunnel, Watchtower, Horse Traders, Rats, Taxman, Thief, Band of Misfits, Outpost, Venture, Wharf
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393455531305.txt

This was a Tunnel/Horse Traders game. I only got 3 of the Tunnels and had bad luck with them early which put me behind. Buying BOM on turn 4 might have been a mistake. I also bought the Penultimate Province, but I figured the game was basically over.

Game 2: burtsbees wins 27 - 24



Code: [Select]
Pawn, Armory, Quarry, Golem, Bandit Camp, Haggler, Hunting Party, Border Village, Grand Market, Possession
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393456594521.txt

This was a strong engine kingdom with Quarry, Border Villlage, Haggler, Grand Market, and Hunting Party. I sometimes bought Gold over Grand Market, which was probably a mistake. I didn't realize the value of Hunting Party until it was too late and my opponent really used them to his advantage. Neither of us went the Potion route (with Golem + Possesion), but I wonder how well that would have worked. Ended up being a close game.

Game 3: TheTig333 wins 25 - 23



Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Develop, Woodcutter, Bridge, Mining Village, Spy, Embassy, Graverobber, Jester, Rebuild
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393457268109.txt

While there were probably other viable strategies for this Kingdom, we both went for Rebuild. Luckily I started with 5/2 so I got an early Rebuild which really helped. We both got 4 Duchies but once I had turned all mine into Provinces, I trashed Province for Province, which limited my opponent to 3 Provinces, thus winning the game.

Game 4: TheTig333 wins 11 - 8



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Duchess, Oracle, Woodcutter, Workshop, Mining Village, Procession, Young Witch, Cultist, Outpost, Grand Market
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393458378854.txt

This game was all about cards that you couldn't trash. I'm talking about Curses from YW and Ruins from Cultist. My opponent opened with YW/Woodcutter (Bane). I really wanted to go for Cultist so I ignored the Bane entirely and only got one YW. I apparently faired pretty well with my one YW, giving my opponent 4 curses (I got 6). But in the meantime I used my Cultists to give my opponent all 10 Ruins, which really hurt. I also had a few Cultist chains which were pretty successful, and was able to buy the only Province of the game.

Game 5: TheTig333 wins 36 - 36



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Herbalist, Vagrant, JackOfAllTrades, Remake, Counterfeit, Embassy, Laboratory, Mine, Forge
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393459092784.txt

In this game we both started JOAT/Silver. Then he used his $5 buys to get Labs while I opted for Counterfeits instead. I ended up liking my choice. I come out with the win with a tie score due to less turns.

Game 6: TheTig333 wins 38 - 33



Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Great Hall, Herald, Navigator, Smithy, Count, Cultist, Mountebank, Soothsayer, Farmland
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393460128931.txt

I had another lucky 5/2 start in this game, and I snagged an early Mountebank. This game was really about Mountebank/Soothsayer with nothing to trash except for Farmland. My early start really helped. Also, my opponent bought 5 Heralds, which I really don't think helped him that much. One crazy thing this game was my turn 15. I wanted to buy a farmland and trash a gold for a Province. So I played my 2 Golds, then pressed the "play treasures" button, then bought a Farmland. OOPS. I accidentally played all my money and now have to trash my Colony... FOR NOTHING! Needless to say I was pretty annoyed (and I haven't played much online). Thankfully I still had the stronger deck and got the win.

Thanks for the fun games burtsbees! As I said before, anyone feel free to comment and tell me what I did wrong (and possibly right).
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lespeutere

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2014, 05:13:06 pm »
0

Game 2, you observed correctly: GM > gold, and HP > BC. Bandit Camp in fact adds 2 more different cards to your deck, so your few HP have an even harder job to do. I'd say that both of you underestimated cycling here, i.e. gaining a 2nd or 3rd HP is more important than a 2nd haggler, imho. I may be wrong, though, I'm making funny decisions atm.
Possession would've been interesting, I'd really like to try it.
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silverspawn

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2014, 05:14:41 pm »
0

Quote
Thanks for the fun games burtsbees! As I said before, anyone feel free to comment and tell me what I did wrong (and possibly right).

hm, i'm pretty sure that potion would've been the correct play on the second game. the problem is that quarry basically guarantees you'll get possession in a reasonable amount of time. Mh... I'm not sure how exactly you do it best, you could try to only buy treasure cards until you get to possessions, which would guarantee money targets for your golems, but it might be too slow. The alternative is to buy some action cards to help out, armory is nice to get lots of quarries, but it's an awful target for golem, I think the best thing would've been to open silver/quarry, get quarries with $4, hunting parties with $5, potion either before the second or before the third reshuffle, and then just golem/possession. If you don't buy any other cards until you get provinces, you're likely to dig for potion cards with hunting parties, and you will eventually get to >1 possession per turn. Haggler might be worth throwing in aswell, since it can let you gain possession and golem in one turn, but it's another target for golems when you would rather hit possessions.

Maybe that's still too slow. But I don't think it is.

Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2014, 05:22:00 pm »
0

IMPORTANT NOTE

End of Round for Round 2 will be postponed by one week, to 10 March, due to Goko's extended downtime.
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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2014, 05:30:24 pm »
0

Please note the change in date to 10 March form 03 March.
You have a typo there: from => form
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lespeutere

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2014, 05:31:50 pm »
0

Quote
Thanks for the fun games burtsbees! As I said before, anyone feel free to comment and tell me what I did wrong (and possibly right).

hm, i'm pretty sure that potion would've been the correct play on the second game. the problem is that quarry basically guarantees you'll get possession in a reasonable amount of time. Mh... I'm not sure how exactly you do it best, you could try to only buy treasure cards until you get to possessions, which would guarantee money targets for your golems, but it might be too slow. The alternative is to buy some action cards to help out, armory is nice to get lots of quarries, but it's an awful target for golem, I think the best thing would've been to open silver/quarry, get quarries with $4, hunting parties with $5, potion either before the second or before the third reshuffle, and then just golem/possession. If you don't buy any other cards until you get provinces, you're likely to dig for potion cards with hunting parties, and you will eventually get to >1 possession per turn. Haggler might be worth throwing in aswell, since it can let you gain possession and golem in one turn, but it's another target for golems when you would rather hit possessions.

Maybe that's still too slow. But I don't think it is.

No, this is certainly not correct. If you go possession, you want to basically play the same game, i.e. have hagglers and HP as well as BV to play multiple possessions. Golem's not that important but if you hit 4$P w/o quarry, well, get one.
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silverspawn

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2014, 05:47:51 pm »
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hm, why? a golem/HP/possession deck should be able to play ~1,5 possessions each turn. a more complex engine will get more eventually, but it takes longer to set up, and it's not necessary, as long as you have more turns with your opponent's deck than he does (=play >1 possession each turn) and set it up before your opponent starts greening, you're already likely to win.

SCSN

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2014, 07:41:36 am »
0

Haggler actually speeds up the building process: it let's you get 2 Hunting Parties off a Border Village and a Golem off a Possession purchase.
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lespeutere

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2014, 08:16:35 am »
0

Haggler actually speeds up the building process: it let's you get 2 Hunting Parties off a Border Village and a Golem off a Possession purchase.

It does: http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140228/log.50fa840ae4b0f82020d81dfd.1393593195555.txt
Even Lord Bottington could've ended it on t10ish when he hit t3 golem: http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140228/log.50fa840ae4b0f82020d81dfd.1393594007229.txt
(not sure why I cannot put it in the prettified log site; I haven't looked into getting the extension back to running, though)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 08:28:23 am by lespeutere »
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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2014, 08:29:27 am »
0

(not sure why I cannot put it in the prettified log site; I haven't looked into getting the extension back to running, though)
Log pretifier at http://dom.retrobox.eu now only works when you put log manually there. We need to modify and move it somewhere.
Extension beta now produces broken log URL.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 08:31:39 am by yed »
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2014, 12:30:46 pm »
0

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?ingfun.com//20140228/log.516d4618e4b082c74d7b73c9.1393606590199.txt

Game 1: I get to open Mountebank/Pawn, it's never fun fighting that. He opens TMap/Lookout though, which just has to be 100% wrong. Well, he does connect his Maps quickly, but then what's 4 Golds when you get crushed by Curses? Then he masses Lookouts like he's silverspawn. It ends up a little closer than I would have expected...

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?ingfun.com//20140228/log.516d4618e4b082c74d7b73c9.1393607387305.txt

Again, I get the 5/2. Here it's a little more questionable and I open Bazaar/Lighthouse. Sir Martin is the top Knight, and as I said in another thread, I think he's a trap. When my opponent takes him, it means I have a good shot at getting the next, almost-certain-to-be-superior, Knight. He either doesn't get enough Lighthouses or they collide very poorly for him, because my Knights start to really beat him down (I mostly get all the better Knights, except Michael which goes to him but only gets played once). Trashing Knight comes through for me in a big way. We slog it out and I am in good shape.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?ingfun.com//20140228/log.516d4618e4b082c74d7b73c9.1393608027846.txt

Colony board. I see Apprentice/Graverobber as my ultimate source of draw, and Swindler/Silver is the best way to get there. He opens with Ironworks... too slow here, I think. Not enough economy. Then he heads the Apothecary route, and that can't be very good. I'm swindling away all his Coppers anyway. I actually give him back his Potion when I swindle it. Anyway, my plan goes off, basically without a hitch and he resigns.

Robz888 wins 3-0.

Thanks for the games, tenuki!
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silverspawn

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2014, 02:28:44 pm »
+2

Quote
Game 1: I get to open Mountebank/Pawn, it's never fun fighting that. He opens TMap/Lookout though, which just has to be 100% wrong. Well, he does connect his Maps quickly, but then what's 4 Golds when you get crushed by Curses? Then he masses Lookouts like he's silverspawn. It ends up a little closer than I would have expected...
he probably didnt buy enough

gilds55

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2014, 02:49:20 pm »
0

IMPORTANT NOTE

End of Round for Round 2 will be postponed by one week, to 10 March, due to Goko's extended downtime.
thanks kirian
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2014, 03:53:12 pm »
+1

ADK beats Julle 3-1

Game One

5/2 split on a Cultist board leads to any easy win. There's fun stuff with Tact/Vault but I don't realize until halfway through that you need Apothecary to make it work. Cultist/money would have probably been better.

Game Two

Familiar's on the board but we both ignore it, the engine is plenty strong with FV, Governor and Altar. He gets to the Prizes first and rides them to victory.

Game Three

No attacks to speak of but Wandering Minstrel and Council Room lead to a strong engine. On the last turn he's one coin short of Double Province, so all in all it's a close game.

Game Four

Baker/Butcher make for an extremely fun combo but I miss the Procession/Armory/Treasure Map combo until my opponent pulls it off mid-game. Butcher helps me narrowly win the VP dance, though.

Thanks for the games, Julle, and good luck in the rest of the tournament. I streamed this match, hopefully I can get youtube to play nice with my video uploads this time.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2014, 06:52:23 pm »
+1

florrat defeats WalrusMcFishSr 3-1

Game 1: florrat 1 - WalrusMcFishSr 0
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1393465792182.txt

florrat definitely deserved to win this one...I had a vague idea of going for Vineyards at some point, but my strategy was not really focused, and I made some rookie mistakes like Upgrading Shelters. He won the Vineyards split 5-3, and had a much better deck for pumping them up...I had hoped to get a few more Provinces, but it didn't pan out. Either way I was outplayed this game.

Game 2: florrat 1 - WalrusMcFishSr 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1393467158059.txt

This game went a bit better...he goes for Scrying Pools, I decide against it. I take a bunch of Lighthouses to deny him money and protect against scrying, and a couple more silvers help me hit 6 for Altar (only trashing) and Nobles (only village). Anyway I end up getting the last Duchy to win.

Game 3: florrat 2 - WalrusMcFishSr 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1393469006617.txt

A crazy, crazy board. Check out this Kingdom:

Hermit, Bishop, JackOfAllTrades, Walled Village, Ghost Ship, Merchant Ship, Tactician, Grand Market, Possession, King's Court, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Colony, Platinum, Potion

So long story short, KC-Possession madness. He definitely deserved to win...my Possession hands were kind of junk, but my Merchant Ships were probably a mistake, for example.

Game 4: florrat 3 - WalrusMcFishSr 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1393471022056.txt

A much closer game. There was an intense Knights war towards the end, and I thought I was leading, but my opponent squeaked out the victory.

Thanks florrat for the great set of games, lots of fun. Best of luck for the rest of the tourney!
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2014, 08:05:48 pm »
+4

Game 1:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393632537588.txt


A classic Hunting Party stack game. With Fishing Village as the Bane, Young Witch didn't seem so appealing here. My opponent opened FV/FV, while I opened FV/Chancellor. Chancellor performed admirably, but it wasn't quite enough to overcome my opponent's early lead in grabbing the Hunting Parties.

markusin 0 - 1 ashersky

Game 2:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393633265467.txt


It's always a bit annoying to have a 5/2 opening when there are no $2's. I was able to open with Upgrade though, but my opponent had a 4/3 start and could still open Remake. I had a pretty clear plan here though. Upgrade my Estates to Silvers and maybe Wishing Wells, set up a good turn for a Mint purchase, and Mint Gold to as I gain Provinces. It was a close game, and I feared the power of Council Room could do me in if I underestimated it. Fortunately, I myself was able to use it to good effect with all the Gold in my deck.

markusin 1 - 1 ashersky

Game 3:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393634666564.txt


This looked to be a pretty clear Minion engine game, with Pawn for support and Ambassador for deck thinning, but no action splitters to allow for much else. Horse Traders was present too, so it wasn't all bad. I emphasize deck thinning more than my opponent does, and I think it pays off in the end.

markusin 2 - 1 ashersky

Game 4:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393635519520.txt


My opponent opens double Swindler, yet gets horrible luck with them. They collide on turn 3, and don't really hit anything good (and my opponent mis-clicked and did Copper->Copper instead of Copper->Curse on one turn). My single Swindler, on the other hand, turns 2 of his Coppers into curses before getting trashed by my Apprentice. I see Apprentice with Haggler to provide fodder and Stonemason to take advantage of $7 turns. I figured if I can get a lead, I'd be able to rush the game end with lots of Apprentices. That's basically what happens.

markusin 3 - 1 ashersky

Thanks for the games ashersky, and for putting up with both the first player issues we had and the crazy time-zone difference between us.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 11:15:51 pm by markusin »
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Tables

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2014, 08:35:34 pm »
0

Tables defeats qtTamara.

Game 1: Tams 23 - 34 Tables
An engine board with Tournament, Wharf, Hamlet and Border Village. I build a big drawing engine after opening Tournament/Silver, getting BVs, Wharfs and some Hamlets. Later on an Expand is added and used to turn a BV into a Province, while the last turn of the game sees me win a tournament to pick up Princess, so that I'm able to afford to bu the last Province (and some Estates, in case I miscounted the score!)

Game 2: Tables 28 - 27 Tams
Much more of a slog this time, the kingdom featured Marauder, Witch, Ill-Gotten Gains and Cutpurse as attacks or attack-likes. I feel like Tams got much better early luck and capitalised on it well, but thanks to some later luck I managed to pull it back. Filling each others decks with junk and with me anticipating that would happen, I grabbed an early Squire for Silvers, and a Treasury for consistent money while building. Well, except I probably grabbed the Treasury too late. And should have added a Cartographer or multiple as well. My deck was stronger going into the lategame, while Tams had the early points advantage, and I was lucky enough that the game dragged on until I was able to end the game buying the final Duchy, and was also pleased I'd counted points correctly up to that point, to get the win.

Game 3: Tables 33 - 29 Tams
I'd never spotted or used this combo before, but Quarry + Stonemason is now something I love. By turn 8 my deck had four Markets and three Knights, plus I'd trimmed out two Estates. Meanwhile, Tams used his Quarry to pick up an early Forge, giving him a thinner deck with good cards. Unfortunately, I think that played into my Knight filled deck, as I trashed Silvers, Golds, Markets aplenty. Tams got an early point lead, but his deck couldn't keep it against my one once it was full of Knights, Markets and Golds, and I eventually caught up and three piled by gaining 4 Stonemasons with $6 (and I could have gained even more!)
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
I hereby declare myself the best dominion player in the world. Obviously.

Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2014, 09:40:36 pm »
0

Titandrake 3-3 secret tunnel

You know that feeling you get when you realize you're awful at this game? I got that a lot.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393636008622.txt
Basically Masq-BM. I lose even despite the 5/2 because passing up Bank for Gold makes no sense (I think it cost me a Province), getting 1 Expand instead of a Gold hurt me pretty badly (I only got to play it once), and Nobles was a bit better than I expected. Turns out 2 VP tiebreaks are good, I keep forgetting that.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393637044254.txt
I try to make an Ambassador engine work, but there's Gardens + Armory as a counter, and the only +Action is University, so I lose. It takes too long to set up, that's the issue. However, I think Ambassador can work here, if you contest Gardens strongly enough with Butcher. Not sure about this game, it's tricky, but I suspect Gardens is good enough to win out here. If you don't contest with the Amb engine, you lose. If you do contest, you get slowed down enough that you probably still lose, even with Butcher to turn them into useful cards.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393638021288.txt
Colony game, Alchemist + Goons, Alchemist is only way to increase hand size besides Vault, and you can't afford Vault when your +Action source is Festival. secret tunnel misses $3P, and from there I can snowball my Alchemists and Upgrades to an easy win. (I think the Traders didn't help though, you really don't want Silver here if you can help it.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393639026615.txt
Scavenger Cultist Steward Mining Village as key cards. I'm undecided on the opening here. I went Scavenger/Steward, but it could have easily backfired, and it's a lot of terminals when you're going to be rushing Cultists. secret tunnel buys Gold over Cultist T4, and I think that costed the game. Waiving first cultist as second player is a bit of a death sentence.
My deck feels really slow after Ruins are done, despite the split being 3-7; most likely, I trashed a lot of my economy, and it gave a window for secret tunnel to catch up. Manage to pull it out.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393639990247.txt
I'm all pumped up for a Vineyard game, backed by Hamlet/Poor House/Nobles/Cartographer, and then midway through the game I realize, wait, Masterpiece-Feodum is a thing. I decide it's too late to switch, but I probably should have. Still would have lost, but it wouldn't have been so thorough.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393640481247.txt
Courtyard, Counterfeit, and IGG mean a BM strategy is clearly the best. secret tunnel ignores IGG early for Golds, whereas I pick up IGG + Counterfeit and skip Golds. I feel like although you normally want Gold with Counterfeit, you can actually skip it with IGG, since you don't run out of things to Counterfeit, which lets you pick up more Counterfeits than usual. Anyways, early IGG works out.

Once again, it turns out my non-engine play is pretty awful. I think the Cultist/Steward board might have a decent engine in it, but I decided to chicken out and go BM after getting the Ruins lead. Anyways, fun set.
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jaybeez

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2014, 10:42:31 pm »
0

Some very quick commentary on my 4-2 win over dethwing.  Mostly just to post the logs, really.

1. jaybeez wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393640530254.txt

We both go for the engine, and we both skip Count (the only trasher).  I think what really made the difference here is Heralds: I got all 10, he ignored them.  The game turned into a bit of a slog at the end, but my engine just had more staying power.

2. dethwing wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393641152186.txt

A textbook case of how NOT to manage piles.  Pretty embarrassing.

3. jaybeez wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393641881393.txt

I think I made some bad choices here (a second Soothsayer was probably a mistake) and he got Steed and Followers.  And I pull out a win, I have no earthly idea how.  I had 6 Golds to his 3, and he had 5 Curses to my 3.  Was that it?

4. dethwing wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393642482218.txt

There's Cultist and no trashing; on T3/T4 he gets Cultists, while I get Cultist at $6 and Silver.  That's pretty much the game.  The Ruins split goes 7-3 in his favor and there's really nothing I can do.

5. jaybeez wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393643292436.txt

I get too many terminals early and he gets out to a bit of a lead.  But then he greens too early (he uses coin tokens to buy a Province on T9-12) and I'm able to squeak out a 1-point win with a double-Province.  This game also served to reinforce my very low opinion of using your starting coin token to open Baker.  I really think that's always a bad move (or virtually always).

6. jaybeez wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393644135731.txt

I think I won this with my split (Torturer/Chapel is a pretty nice opening, yeah).  But he opened Hermit/Mining Village which I don't think helped the situation, I think Hermit/Tournament is a lot better here.  Still, with a 3/4 opening on this board I think it's going to be very tough to beat Torturer/Chapel.  I get trashed down and get my draw engine going and by the time the Curses are gone and he's out from under the Torturers my deck is so much stronger than his there's nothing he can do.  I made a mistake in buying my second Province though, not sure what I was thinking there.  Not that it mattered.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 10:43:55 pm by jaybeez »
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KingZog3

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2014, 10:52:29 am »
+2

My games against soulnet. Drunkensailor is running slow or something. None of the logs of our games are up (but games I played today are).

Game 1- I couldn't find the log...Maybe it'll update soon and we'll get the log. But soulnet won. I don't remember what the game was

Game 2 -  Kingzog3 wins
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393686240262.txt


Code: [Select]
Beggar, Oasis, Warehouse, Wishing Well, Quarry, Worker's Village, Jester, Mandarin, Rogue, Hunting Grounds
A great engine board. I just manage to get things running faster and grab most of the villages, giving a stronger engine, control over piles and playing Jester tons.

game 3 - Soulnet wins
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393686731987.txt


Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Cellar, Hamlet, Fishing Village, Scheme, Trade Route, Philosopher's Stone, Ill-Gotten Gains, Inn, Altar
This is just embarrassing. Straightforward IGG rush with Altar. Not exciting. But I manage to end the game with a tie...except I went first. I felt so dumb when soulnet pointed that out to me in the next game. Either way I think I had lost. All he had to do was buy an Estate and I couldn't end it on the last Duchy. I also get a bit unlucky last turn with only $1 in my hand and unable to buy an estate. That would have won me the game.

Game - 4 Soulnet wins
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393687858510.txt


Code: [Select]
Apothecary, Fortune Teller, Advisor, Gardens, Throne Room, Bandit Camp, Duke, Mandarin, Merchant Ship, Grand Market
This one is interesting. I get a huge lead, but am unable to get the last Province. In retrospect, I should have built more, gotten a Grandmarket too. Soulnet gets 6VP Dukes, which is the end for me. There was debate after that my last Province should have been a Duchy (not that it mattered), but to deny points for his Dukes. I'm not so sure. I basically had to hope for a lucky $8 to win, which didn't come.

EDIT: And soulnet gets the logs! Hooray.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 10:58:09 am by KingZog3 »
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2014, 10:53:25 am »
+2

soulnet 3 - 1 KingZog3

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393685578434.txt
Apothecary, Masquerade, Steward, Death Cart, Remodel, Horn of Plenty, Merchant Ship, Stables, Witch, Border Village

Pretty clearly HoP engine, with Stables for draw, Masq for trashing and even Border Village / Remodel tricks that neither ends up doing because the game is so fast. The only difference is that he goes Apothecary, but I think it is going to be slow and choose to try to trash faster with Masq. He speeds up first, with my Masq missing the first shuffle, but then I get HoP early, which speeds up the building. In the end, it is pretty close. I green early without trashing the HoPs because the piles are running low. I think he overbuilds and then cashes into triple-Province, but I have 3 HoPs, so all I need is a reasonably good turn, which I get, to get the last 4 Provinces and win.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393686240262.txt
Beggar, Oasis, Warehouse, Wishing Well, Quarry, Worker's Village, Jester, Mandarin, Rogue, Hunting Grounds

This is pretty clearly Worker's Village / Hunting Grounds engine with Quarry. Quarry makes Hunting Grounds not so expensive, and with the best village for it, it is impossible to pass on the engine. We basically mirror opening Warehouse/Quarry. I think I got way worse draws and he builds the engine well, including horrible Jester luck and not matching the Villages with Quarry or the terminals early, so he wins handily.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393686731987.txt
Candlestick Maker, Cellar, Hamlet, Fishing Village, Scheme, Trade Route, Philosopher's Stone, Ill-Gotten Gains, Inn, Altar

Pretty weak board, clearly IGG rush with Altar for support. There is not even time to get villages and double on Altar. We both open double Silver. I get $3 on T3 and I gamble with Scheme because there is a reasonable chance to get $6 for Altar on the next turn, but it does not happen. In any case, I have enough economy to get Altar and the Scheme is more important than more Silver. IGG provides money anyway. In the end, it is a pretty close mirror. After some horrible draws, I gamble in a double Duchy turn leaving one Duchy and taking a 4 point lead. He is first player, so he needs to trash Curse, Gain Duchy and buy Estate, but I know from Scheme he has the Altar in hand. Since I have less economy and already greened, I think it is better to gamble than to do Duchy/Estate. He does have the Curse but not the money for the Estate, but still finishes up the Duchies instead of dragging the game, so I win on turns. In the afterchat, he said he was not aware that he was losing on turns, he thought he was taking a tie. He took it graciously, refusing a rematch offer.

Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393687858510.txt
Apothecary, Fortune Teller, Advisor, Gardens, Throne Room, Bandit Camp, Duke, Mandarin, Merchant Ship, Grand Market

There are several options here, and I was not sure what to do. There is not great support for Duke, but the Province engine is slow and there is not even a great BM enabler. I choose to take Apothecary into Merchant Ships and some Grand Markets. I think it is good to overbuid, because you have Dukes if you fall behind on Provinces. He finds himself in better shape with faster Apothecary build, so he goes straight from Apothecary with one Advisor plus Merchant Ships and Throne Rooms into Provinces. He spikes the Provinces fast and I start grabbing Duchies. He did not finish the Province pile on time and I get to 6 VP Dukes thanks to having the +Buy from Grand Markets and a larger and stronger deck. After I surpass the 6 VP lead, there is almost no way he can catch up. I am worried that Gardens may give him points, but he keeps taking Dukes (possibly also necessary to deny them to me).

Thanks KingZog3, it was nice to play with you, even if we did not get the most fun boards.

If someone can comment, especially on the last game, it would be great.
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antigoth

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