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Author Topic: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread  (Read 25342 times)

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Kirian

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GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« on: February 24, 2014, 10:33:00 am »
0

Post your logs here and discuss!
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RTT

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2014, 06:10:51 pm »
+2

I once again recorded the match with BraveBear here are the videos.

Game 1


Game 2


Game 3



enjoy watching and thank you bravebear for the games.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 06:25:26 pm by RTT »
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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014, 08:53:01 am »
0

RTT, SCSN: logs?

Or is it not mandatory to post logs now?

EDIT: I mean here. I'm asking because I sometimes look at them even when there is no commentary from participans.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 08:57:34 am by yed »
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RTT

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 08:59:49 am »
0

i thought that just posting the result in the result thread is mandatory and everything in this thread is optionaly. I was a little lazy searching the logs with the logsearch and then copy paste them and having videos is much more entertaining to watch then the logs.
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BraveBear

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014, 09:33:47 am »
+1

Thank you RTT for the games.

Game 1, I did get quite unlucky with both my chapel and militia missing the first shuffle.  However if I was going to have any chance of coming back after that I should have started buying silvers instead of all those workers villages.  Even if I did that I still think it was too much of an uphill battle.

Game 2, Yes I agree with you that familiar is the obvious choice.  However I still stand by my play to go hard for tournaments.  I've played many games where it takes a long time for someone to get a province when they go familiar and if I line up enough prizes before I get too clogged with curses then I'm all set.  However my huge mistake which you point out is not going followers with my second prize.  Also I shouldn't have bought that second trading post like you said, gold would have been much better.

Game 3,  This was a mirror match where I completely forgot you could gain with graverobber.  I trashed my two nobles much too early.  Great play recognizing that my economy was only at 7 and picking those nobles out of the trash.

All in All I think I made many mistakes against a great player.  Got unlucky didn't help but wasn't the reason I lost.

-Bear
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2014, 10:53:31 am »
0

Yeah, I don't want to make posting logs here mandatory, but remember that lots of people like to see discussion of the logs.  It would be really nice if everyone would post the logs.
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 12:10:05 pm »
+1

In the OP of the results thread it says "week 1" where it should say "week 2". If it would have been ok to post this in the results thread directly, please say so.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 12:24:43 pm »
+5

SheCantSayNo - Rabid: 3 - 1

Rabid beat me in Round 2 of Gokodom I, so I was eager to return the favor ;)



Code: [Select]
Forager, Village, Mining Village, Moneylender, Scout, Wandering Minstrel, Contraband, Mandarin, Merchant Ship, Venture
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1393278496687.txt (1 - 0)

I open Moneylender/Forager to Rabid's Merchant Ship on 2/5, which I think is awful to have here. We both end up playing a combination of Merchant Ships and Ventures and I win it on FPA I think. Not too sure about the plan, I don't like Venture in general and it didn't work that great here, maybe just going for Merchant Ships + Wandering Minstrels would have been better.



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Candlestick Maker, Fortune Teller, Oasis, Village, Herald, Butcher, Council Room, Horn of Plenty, Goons
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1393279649729.txt (1 - 1)

Obvious Goons engine. Rabid has 2/5 again which is a lot better here than it was in the previous game. I open Herald/Fortune Teller. The Herald might have been a bit too early and Oasis/FT is probably better. I don't hit 5 during my 2nd shuffle which is really bad and then I hit 6 and buy a Goons, which I think was a big mistake and should have been a Butcher because you really want the trashing if you're going for the Herald plan. Rabid goes for Council Room with Villages which is obviously fine but too late for me to mirror, and I lose without much of a shot at anything.



Code: [Select]
Apothecary, Woodcutter, Workshop, Death Cart, Island, Council Room, Junk Dealer, Royal Seal, Farmland, Forge
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1393280485858.txt (2 - 1)

I open Potion/Woodcutter for Apothecary against Rabid's Silver/Silver for Council Room-BM. I like the Apothecary plan better here, especially with Island to store away Estates and Farmland for cheap Provinces.   On T11 I make a very questionable play: with $12 and 2 buys I chose to double Farmland, Farmlanding an Estate into Island and my Potion into another Farmland. I should just have bought Province + Apothecary here as emptying the Farmlands wasn't actually in my interest and getting additional green instead of another Apothecary was going to slow me down alot. It ends up being really close, I get the penultimate province on T15 by buying the last Farmland and now Rabid can win by getting the last Province, which he can't get for both of his next two turns, while I'm able to finish it just in time. I definitely lucked out here, after my T11 nonsense he had the best chances.



Code: [Select]
Shanty Town, Workshop, Bureaucrat, Quarry, Silk Road, Worker's Village, Duke, Embassy, Harvest, Soothsayer
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1393281073632.txt (3 - 1)

Rabid has another 5/2 and opens Soothsayer, I go for Bureaucrat/Silver. The obvious plan is Duchy - Duke with some Silk Road support, but Rabid goes more heavily for Silk Roads by getting 2 Workshops, a Worker's Village and a Shanty Town, which I don't like because you pretty much resign yourself to losing the Duchy split (indeed: 6 - 2) which I think is more important than the Silk Road split because even with 5 - 3 every single Duke gives you a 2 point advantage, whereas you need to get 4 green cards to get a similar advantage from a 5 - 3 Silk Road split. My 6 Duchies indeed end up giving me the win.

Thanks for the games Rabid.
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 03:38:11 pm »
+6

TheMirrorMan - Jean-Michel : 4 - 2.

Let's start with : Goko was unbearable tonight!!!

Not only did we have the "oh, let's push play game and then do nothing" ... It was slow as hell. And in the beginning of the fourth game, Goko Santa decided we had all been very naughty (Futurama, anyone ?) and threw us all off the server.

Thanks to Jean-Michel for being a great sport during the games - it worked on both our nerves.

I've had a serious drop of level in the last few days. Well, you know, one of those days where nothing really works in Dominion and shuffle luck is far away. So I was a bit more anxious to play ...

Game 1 : "International currency" : Jean-Michel wins.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1393352351354.txt



Code: [Select]
Moat, Envoy, Feast, Feodum, Nomad Camp, Quarry, Remake, Talisman, Embassy, Jester
Meaning : It's peanut butter jelly big money time. Either Remake to clean out the deck or Envoy/Embassy. We both choose BM, J-M goes Silver/Silver, I go Silver/Envoy. Idea was to not give him the extra Silver too quickly. Then again, what am I thinking here when he just bought 2 Silvers already ??? So I prefer J-M's opening. And I sense it during the game - I am starting to lack money power, so I buy an extra Embassy ... but it's already too late. The moment I can buy the last province, I'm 7 VP behind, so I need to do desperate stuff. Like buy a Jester and hope to hit a green ... And then it of course appears in my Embassy draw.

Clean win for J-M

Game 2 : "Harems and Hagglers" : Jean-Michel wins.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1393352730696.txt



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Fortune Teller, Workshop, Death Cart, Baker, Catacombs, Count, Graverobber, Haggler, Harem
We have the extra coin token to spend, so that makes it interesting enough on this board. Chapel/Count as trashing, no engine except Bakers ... So BM again. Or could the Death cart play a role here ?

We both split 3/5, J-M takes Silver/Haggler, I take Silver/Count, thinking that the rapid trashing will help me more. Well ... It does to an extent that you don't have too much stuff to use, whereas J-M picks up a lot of useful stuff with the Haggler (e.g. Harem + Count). And I trail the whole game ...

Not really sure what the best strategy is here.

Game 3 : "The green, green grass of the ironworks" : TheMirrorMan wins.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1393353428346.txt



Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Great Hall, Trade Route, Bishop, Ironworks, Quarry, Silk Road, Saboteur, Soothsayer, Hoard
So I've got to win the next two or I'm out. Oh nice, a "technical" board.

Although this is a Colony game, the Ironworks/SR/GH and Trade route combo (we'll be gaining quite soon) is just plain out quicker. And if you need higher VP, you can always throw in a hoard, buy a cheap one and get your money back up. But as the game shows, you don't have time.

Not really much to say here, luck gives me better draws here that J-M (I think). And I didn't trash an estate in the beginning (need it for SR). GH split : 5/3, SR split : 4/4. And since I have shoved a CM in, I can get some extra estates in the end.

Game 4 : "The temptation of a lady" : TheMirrorMan wins.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1393354136322.txt



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Masquerade, Woodcutter, Baker, Cartographer, Catacombs, Knights, Mountebank, Stables, Possession
Sometimes you see that card where you think : I really need this. This will give me a decisive advantage.
We both have 5/3 split (baker coin token). And I see ... Miss Molly on top of the knights. But damn, J-M is to start. He gets Masquerade/Mountebank ... and ... yes, I can buy my beloved Dame Molly and two Masquerades to throw the junk of the mountebank back, right!

Well, let's see, what is wrong with this plan ...
1) There is no stuff to trash in the deck yet!
2) Where am I going to get money from ? Well, free coppers from the Mountebank of course </end sarcasm>
3) My Masquerades collide 2 times ...

As the VP chart shows, J-M starts racing quickly and I'm stuck behind with a card that hits nothing special. Is this the end of round 2 ... ?

And then, in the end, I pull off one of the biggest tricks ... I'm 7 behind, so I can't go out ... But then I masquerade over a curse (and don't get one back), swinging 2 points and buying the last Province.

I have no idea how I pulled this off, but my apologies were sent to my opponent.

Game 5 : "There's junk in the gardens!" : TheMirrorMan wins.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1393356052820.txt



Code: [Select]
Warehouse, Philosopher's Stone, Gardens, Marauder, Sea Hag, Catacombs, Merchant Guild, Mine, Saboteur, Stables
Well, the biggest key card here is Gardens, since there are so many enablers : junking from Marauder/Sea Hag, Merchant Guild. And other than that, Philosopher's Stone works so well with this too.

I open Silver/Sea Hag, J-M opens Warehouse/Marauder. Of course you don't want to give too much junk ... But some junking is needed.
I think my opening is better here - you already get the minus points while Marauder only gives you temporary money - not really something you want when you're going for Gardens (but maybe J-M wasn't thinking of that in the beginning). I was doubting on the Warehouse. Maybe that was a better choice instead of Silver.

I get a very lucky turn 3, hitting five and buying a Merchant Guild. Stocking up on coin tokens.

Then the switch to the Philosopher's stone, but I buy my potion earlier (to no avail, as I hit 2+P the first time - that's what you get with the junk). It pulls itself off with all the junk (my PS is worth 7 in the end, where his are less valuable) and I can refocus from the Gardens split to the Provinces.

Game 6 : "It's hard to be tender" : TheMirrorMan wins.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1393356747420.txt



Code: [Select]
Cellar, Hamlet, Stonemason, Masquerade, Feodum, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Laboratory, Minion, Wharf
Not that much to say here. 4/3 for both, Silver/Masquerade for both. (Sea Hag with Masquerade is almost out of the question). Hamlet/Wharf is just too slow, so we come to the same conclusion : Minions. I win the split horribly, 7/3, due to lucky draws (7 coins = 2 Minions with Stonemason, then throw the SM over with Masquerade) and J-M's good hands getting hit. It's really harsh when you're on the other side - been there, done that. Luckily, J-M takes it like a sport, joking "oh I can buy a province" after I've bought 4 already. Good sport!

Mixed feelings about the matches - could have gone either way and I did make some pretty bad choices ... Better step up for next time ...
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gamesou

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2014, 03:40:18 pm »
+4

gamesou defeats factotumjack 3-1

I could have come with logs and pictures, analyses, videos, or whatever crazy stuff the community might generate. But I'm not good at this. So instead I'll tell you a goko story. You know, these stories with fancy bugs, an easy way to get respect.

gamesou : I want to log in and play against factotumjack.
goko : "password incorrect"
gamesou : come on, I used that password for years over the whole internet and it always worked !
goko : "password incorrect'
gamesou : oh, there is a forgotten password option ! Who knows, I may be getting old ...
goko : shows me a screen with fancy boardgames but nothing about passwords
gamesou : i know, there is another way to log in, via a pop-up, let's try
goko : "password incorrect"
gamesou : oh, another forgotten password button !
goko : will send me a new password (still waiting for the mail)
gamesou : I know, I'll create a new account and play with it. I can even sign up with gmail, so that in case my opponents has no sets we'll play a base+walled village series !
goko : crashes
gamesou : ahahah, but I can log as a guest. Here's the trick. I can see my opponent waiting for me !! I just have to warn him about my switching to guest account.
goko : tss tss ... Guests cannot chat in the lobby !
gamesou : no problem, I can pm my opponent so that he accepts me. When starting the game everything can arrange
goko : Guests cannot chat during the game either !

And that's how I played four mute games. I can now witness that one-way communication is way less efficient that two-way communnication.

LOTS of thanks to factotumjack for handling everything so smoothly, and for being comprehensive for not responding to his nice chatting !

Now I realize something ... since guests cannot chat I couldn't warn my opponent that I was using the point counter extension. FactotumJack, I sincerely hope that you don't have any problem with it.

Ahah, logs, videos, fancy stuff ... you really want them ?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 04:50:41 pm by gamesou »
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2014, 04:36:08 pm »
0

In the OP of the results thread it says "week 1" where it should say "week 2". If it would have been ok to post this in the results thread directly, please say so.

Thanks for the heads-up!  And yes, this would be the thread to put it in. :)
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JOG

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2014, 05:56:48 pm »
+1

I just finished watching stream of my match with jsh357.  It's great to see match from other player's perspective.  Thanks a lot for doing this.

game 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1393359527135.txt
apothecary, scrying pool, storeroom, wishing well, familiar, scavenger, tournament, witch, goons

We both open potion/storeroom, and go for familiars.  He picks up a scavenger early, which I think is quite good here.  Allows topdecking of familiars and later goons.  I'm happy with splitting curses 5-5.  Looking back at it, I think potion/wishing well  open is probably best, then hopefully pick up scavenger early.  After cursing, he goes for draw with apothecary, I go with scrying pool. I did overlook apothecary/wishing well combo, but think scrying pool is still stronger because you can get so many cantrips(peddlers/tournaments).

game 2
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1393361002277.txt
candlestick maker, apothecary, storeroom, woodcutter, advisor, armory, bridge, ironmonger, quarry, market

We both open potion/storeroom again, and then build apothecary engines.  I pick up an armory, which I think was probably a mistake because there are enough other ways to gain engine pieces(storeroom/bridge).  He focuses more on ironmongers for +actions mostly (some draw/some money).  I focus more on advisors to draw my deck.  On turn 13, I build a 9 point lead, and have a buy left over. 2 piles are out, and only 4 advisors left.  I think about buying nothing, but pick up an advisor because I didn't think his deck had enough draw to get province, duchy, estate and 3 advisors.  Also, 3 buys would be possible for me the next turn, but 4 would be unlikely.  In the stream, it showed he did misplay storeroom, causing unwanted  shuffle because of goko's interface.  If that didn't happen it could have gone either way.

game 3
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1393362138586.txt
chapel, develop, scheme, shanty town, storeroom, swindler, fortress, contraband, pillage, hunting grounds

The game I'm most proud of.  I ignore swindler and open chapel/silver.  Able to trash down and build deck that draws itself every turn.  Play fortress/hunting grounds, play more villages, develop a fortress into pillage/scheme, play pillage, draw spoils, buy province, then topdeck fortress/hunting grounds.
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jsh357

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2014, 06:14:42 pm »
+2

Here are the videos of jsh vs JOG.  See JOG's comments about the games themselves, which basically mirror my own here.  I had a shot at game 2, but not the others so much.





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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2014, 07:01:56 pm »
+2

Ahah, logs, videos, fancy stuff ... you really want them ?

In case you do want them, I am assuming that you were guest435.0001

36-17 gamesou wins
18-30 factotumjack wins
-4-16 gamesou wins
33-21 gamesou wins

Never underestimate the log search
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Qvist

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2014, 07:31:10 pm »
+2

Video (still uploading):



Game 1:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.50745d1a0cf28ed55d9d6498.1393365335617.txt



Code: [Select]
Secret Chamber, University, Tunnel, Procession, Quarry, Cartographer, Merchant Ship, Royal Seal, Trading Post, Hunting Grounds
This is a pretty weak board for a Colony game. I open Secret Chamber/Potion and aim to get a lot of Cartographers and Tunnels and later some Hunting Grounds. My opponent goes for a similar deck, but without University his deck is way too slow. Interesting side note: The game nearly was ending on 3 piles: Cartographer, Tunnel and Gold, but there were a few Golds left in the end.

Game 2:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.50745d1a0cf28ed55d9d6498.1393366883195.txt



Code: [Select]
Duchess, Doctor, Loan, Cutpurse, Marauder, Catacombs, Contraband, Council Room, Saboteur, Altar
My opponent Doctor/Marauder, but Doctor isn't great in trashing Ruins, so I just go Big Money and open Silver/Marauder and add some Catacombs later. My opponent got way too many terminals and his Doctor didn't do that much for him - he trashed it later.

Game 3:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140225/log.516d1bece4b082c74d7ae7e9.1393367900492.txt



Code: [Select]
Stonemason, Great Hall, Marauder, Militia, Taxman, Young Witch, Graverobber, Jester, Market, Mystic, Vault

I open 5/2 on this attack-heavy board. I open Young Witch and wait if he opens Young Witch too which he did, so I grabbed a Stonemason (bane). He then bought triple Stonemason to defend which was probably too much, so I didn't get a second YW and instead grabbed a Marauder. I lost the Curse split pretty badly, but he had again way too many terminals and I added Vaults later and had enought economy to hit Province pretty regularly. The game ended on three piles (Curse, Duchy, Great Hall) with one Province left.
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factotumjack

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2014, 08:30:25 pm »
0

Thanks e for finding the logs.  Yes, that's our games.

Thanks gamesou for the matches.

I ran into a similar problem right before our scheduled match, but somehow managed to bypass it by restarting the browser. Nothing much more to say other than I don't mind using a VP counter. Mine was off but no games had any difficult alt-vp or vp tokens so a vp counter was redundant anyway.

Just curious, can you see the chat when you're a guest?

I forfeited in the middle of game 3, and I hope that wasn't bad manners. Just that was I still getting silvers when you were getting provinces, so I didn't see the point in dragging out a game I had <1% chance of winning.
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gamesou

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2014, 01:58:25 am »
0

Just curious, can you see the chat when you're a guest?

Yes, guests can see the chat. No problem with your game 3 resignation ! You've been unlucky with your potion in that game.

FWIW, I can now log in as usual.

And thanks to exp(1) for the logs.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2014, 01:09:42 pm »
0

Game 4 : "The temptation of a lady" : TheMirrorMan wins.

Sometimes you see that card where you think : I really need this. This will give me a decisive advantage.
We both have 5/3 split (baker coin token). And I see ... Miss Molly on top of the knights. But damn, J-M is to start. He gets Masquerade/Mountebank ... and ... yes, I can buy my beloved Dame Molly and two Masquerades to throw the junk of the mountebank back, right!

Well, let's see, what is wrong with this plan ...
1) There is no stuff to trash in the deck yet!
2) Where am I going to get money from ? Well, free coppers from the Mountebank of course </end sarcasm>
3) My Masquerades collide 2 times ...

As the VP chart shows, J-M starts racing quickly and I'm stuck behind with a card that hits nothing special. Is this the end of round 2 ... ?

And then, in the end, I pull off one of the biggest tricks ... I'm 7 behind, so I can't go out ... But then I masquerade over a curse (and don't get one back), swinging 2 points and buying the last Province.

I have no idea how I pulled this off, but my apologies were sent to my opponent.

You could've got lucky to trash his masquerade or mountebank on t3 or 4 which would've been huge. But that is just a minor point. The crucial difference - imo - is the stables split of 5-2 in your favour. It's not out-of-space-unlikely that you somehow draw Molly and both masquerades together. Note that most of the time you had less coppers than he had, despite him giving you coppers via MB. He got quite unlucky in the beginning. However, from your description, I would've anticipated a much higher VP difference but he was ahead by just 1 province +/-2VP.
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dnkywin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2014, 03:41:34 pm »
+1

dnkywin defeats impromptublue 3-1

Game 1: impromptublue 24, dnkywin 36


Code: [Select]
Secret Chamber, Masterpiece, Village, Woodcutter, Feast, Fortress, Treasure Map, Baker, Mystic, Altar
Game 2: dnkywin 27, impromptublue 31


Code: [Select]
Doctor, Scheme, Warehouse, Feodum, Rats, Salvager, Silk Road, Smithy, Spice Merchant, Hunting Grounds
Game 3: dnkywin 23, impromptublue 0


Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Haven, Ironworks, Apprentice, Band of Misfits, Horn of Plenty, Venture, Altar, Hoard, King's Court
Game 4: impromptublue 20, dnkywin 45


Code: [Select]
Duchess, Pawn, Chancellor, Caravan, Remodel, Laboratory, Mint, Pillage, Upgrade, Hoard
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Temron

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2014, 04:53:47 pm »
+1

Game 1:



Code: [Select]
Herbalist, Pearl Diver, Oasis, Golem, Cache, Cultist, Haggler, Merchant Guild, Border Village, Bank
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d4177e4b082c74d7b6376.1393445742212.txt

Key cards: Border Village, Cultist, and Merchant Guild

I don't know what really to say. I got some lucky early sixes that I think were the difference in this game. He ended up with more Cultists but I was able to cycle better and ended up winning the ruins split. I also picked up Merchant Guild which my opponent ignored allowing me to have smoother hands.

Temron: 39 -- Alexmf: 27


Game 2:



Code: [Select]
Warehouse, Armory, Caravan, Cutpurse, Feast, Procession, Silk Road, Treasury, Wharf, Hoard
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d4258e4b082c74d7b660a.1393446502792.txt

Key cards: Wharf, Procession, Caravan

I went engine with Procession, Caravan, Warehouse, and Wharf. My opponent went Wharf BM. I opened with armory/silver to get components for the engine. On turn 10 I Processioned my Armory to set up a Procession/Caravan turn. From there I was able to start greening.

Temron: 38 -- Alex: 25


Game 3:



Code: [Select]
Ambassador, Forager, Fortune Teller, Great Hall, Bureaucrat, Caravan, Death Cart, JackOfAllTrades, Wandering Minstrel, Outpost
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d4177e4b082c74d7b6376.1393447367887.txt

Key Cards: Ambassador, Forager, Caravan, Jack

I thought I would be able to ignore Ambassador on this board which seems to have been a mistake. I opened Forager/Jack and Alexmf opened Bureaucrat/Ambassador. I tried to kind of build an engine around Wandering, Forager, Jack, and Outpost. Alexmf ended up just using 1 Forager, 2 Caravans, and 1 Ambassador. I had a significant lead most of the game but towards the end I made the mistake of Foraging my Gold. I probably should not have done this. I also think I started greening too early and should not have gotten so many Great Halls since they were messing with my coin density. Was Double Jack just the way to go here?

Alexmf: 34 -- Temron: 32


Game 4:



Code: [Select]
Vagrant, Ambassador, Market Square, Armory, Militia, Monument, Scout, Tactician, Treasury, Witch
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d4258e4b082c74d7b660a.1393448370159.txt

Key Cards: Ambassador, Tactician, Treasury

This game started out as an Ambassador war. I picked up a Tactician which Alexmf ignored. I think this allowed me to play Ambassador much more effectively. I picked up a few Treasuries and was thinking about double Tactician but it did not seem viable without any plus actions. We both completely ignored Witch. I also picked up some Market Squares and Vagrants and was able to draw my whole deck in the middle portion of the game with Tactician. This slowed down once I started greening.

Temron: 36 -- Alexmf 33

Both Alexmf and I would love feedback! Thanks for reading.


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hdu88

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2014, 05:34:58 pm »
0

Monsieur X defeats hdu88 4-2

Game 1: hdu88 resigns

Ambassador mirror. X manages to connect Ambassador with 2 Estates on Turn 4, which gives him a huge advantage. However, I think Turn 11 is where I lose the game by buying Highway instead of Plaza. I end up colliding my Ambassadors while X plays two Ambassadors almost every turn.

Game 2: 30-44

I initially try to go for a janky Double Tactician engine with Apothecary, Plaza, Highway, and no trashing or +buy. Yeah, bad idea when there's Embassy/Tunnel with support. Also, I abandon this engine on Turn 11 in order to double Province.

Game 3 Monsieur X resigns

Chapel/Young Witch mirror into King's Court and Merchant Guild/Watchtower. X tries to use Tunnel to rebuild his economy, while I go for Mercenary. The problem with Tunnel here is that Gold is just not very good on this board.

Game 4 39-18

More Merchant Guild shenanigans. On Turn 13 I send the game into DEFCON 2 because my deck has slightly more +buy. On Turn 14 I play around a quadruple Province because I'm fairly confident I have quintuple Province on the next turn.

Game 5 21-45

Boards with no trashing are a huge blind spot for me. I make a bunch of small mistakes that compound into a big loss.

Game 6 27-30

I open Haven/Trading Post on a Rebuild board. My first reshuffle gives me a 2-4 split as my Trading Post misses my Estates. My next two reshuffles give me 3-3 and 8-3 respectively. Yeah, not winning this. The game looks close, but it really wasn't.
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2014, 05:41:03 pm »
0

I open Haven/Trading Post on a Rebuild board. My first reshuffle gives me a 2-4 split as my Trading Post misses my Estates. My next two reshuffles give me 3-3 and 8-3 respectively. Yeah, not winning this. The game looks close, but it really wasn't.

You do not want to trash Estates for Rebuild, you want to turn them into Duchies. And trashing Coppers with TP is really really slow. I would have skipped TP and either open Rebuild and get the Scavenger/Silver on the second shuffle, starting the Rebuilding early, or open with Scavenger or Masq to get to $5 next shuffle. 5/2 seems bad on this board.
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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2014, 05:51:08 pm »
+2

my games against ravi:

game 1(can't find the log for this one)

Not much going on on this board. We both went for Embassy Big Money with Bank got a Silver  two Embassys and two Banks each and started greening. I went for Duchies earlyer he got a third Embassy in the end it was very close and i think this comes down to me being first player and i win.
1:0

game 2:


Code: [Select]
Duchess, Steward, Woodcutter, Plaza, Treasure Map, Catacombs, Cultist, Hunting Party, Journeyman, Margrave
log: http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20140226/log.516cd034e4b082c74d7a014f.1393449558055.txt

Obviously an engine board. I opened double Steward he opened Streward/Silver i dont know which of those is better. But the risk i took backfired big time and i couldn't connect  a single steward to an estate until turn 7! and eventually got rolled over by Margrave and lots of Cultists. I resigned when he got the first Provinces. I wonder how this had gone if i could have kept up with him at start because he did a few things i would have done differently. Like i think that the first 5 should be Margrave over Cultist but it certainly worked out for him and i never had a slight chance to come back under his strong attacks. Well played.
1:1

game3:



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Duchess, Fishing Village, Storeroom, Wishing Well, Silk Road, Trader, Jester, Library, Mountebank

log: http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.516cd034e4b082c74d7a014f.1393450742938.txt

We both opened fishing village/Trader on this one intimidated by the allmighty Mountebank scaring us from the top of the Board.
Without the Mountebank this is a very clear fishing village/storeroom/library engine. I get to 5 earlier and more than him with my first 5 being Mountebank his reaction to this was to get another two Traders as defence. And as to expect my first Mountebank plays earn him 4 Silvers. But still i am totally sure the Mountebank did it's job for me because the three Traders and not that few silvers made it impossible for him to get a running engine and he instead played a moneyish deck with a few fishing villages and one or two storerooms. I do stick to my plan and build the engine, especially as he skipped Mountebank completely. Later in the game when we are both greening i manage to also hit 2 unprotected hands and he starts stalling towards the end. Obviously so do i, but not quite as much. My last two shuffles were rather unfortunate as i drew most of my fishing villages dead with either storeroom or had to skip them with Library. In the end this was super close  and he hit 7 on a turn where province would have won for him but in the end i win this one. I would be interested to know if he had played differently strategy wise if he hit 5 more early.
2:1

game 4:



Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Caravan, Quarry, Trader, Apprentice, Cartographer, Highway, Minion, Wharf, Hunting Grounds

log: http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.516cd034e4b082c74d7a014f.1393451922484.txt

Again a clear engine board. The minion engine finds strong support in highway, candlestickmaker and quarry. I open CM/quarry, he opens silver/quarry and we play a near mirror from that on. Me getting an apprentice on my first 5 being the only difference. He hits 4 two times and goes for caravans on those turns while i went for another 2 CM's early. We split the minions evenly but my extra buys pay off and i get my first big turn earlier getting 4 Provinces at once at a time he only had 3 potential buys a turn. Even though i couldn't connect my early apprentice to an estate until very very late in the game i certainly got the better end of the luck here and win this one by a big margin.
3:1

Thanks for the games and the best of luck in the following rounds, ravi!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 05:58:08 pm by MarkowKette »
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hdu88

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2014, 06:33:28 pm »
+2

Game 3:



Code: [Select]
Ambassador, Forager, Fortune Teller, Great Hall, Bureaucrat, Caravan, Death Cart, JackOfAllTrades, Wandering Minstrel, Outpost
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d4177e4b082c74d7b6376.1393447367887.txt

Key Cards: Ambassador, Forager, Caravan, Jack

I thought I would be able to ignore Ambassador on this board which seems to have been a mistake. I opened Forager/Jack and Alexmf opened Bureaucrat/Ambassador. I tried to kind of build an engine around Wandering, Forager, Jack, and Outpost. Alexmf ended up just using 1 Forager, 2 Caravans, and 1 Ambassador. I had a significant lead most of the game but towards the end I made the mistake of Foraging my Gold. I probably should not have done this. I also think I started greening too early and should not have gotten so many Great Halls since they were messing with my coin density. Was Double Jack just the way to go here?

Alexmf: 34 -- Temron: 32


You want a third Forager for the engine, and Death Cart > Outpost for your strategy. Also, you bought green way too early (Turn 8?). Yes, buying a Forager or a Minstrel on $8 doesn't feel great, but it might be the right move. You want to thin down until each turn you can draw your entire deck, gain two Silvers, trash two Silvers and a Copper, and play a Death Cart (not necessarily in that order). This kinda cannibalizes your deck toward the end, but you can get 6 Provinces out of it in 3-5 turns.

Also, for your opponent: Ambassador/Jack is a much better Big Money strategy than Ambassador/Bureaucrat (and edges out Double Jack slightly if Isotropic records are to be believed). In either case, if you're playing Ambassador in a Big Money strategy you want to return Estate over two Coppers.

Last note: I'd open Ambassador Caravan here and ignore Jack.


Game 4:



Code: [Select]
Vagrant, Ambassador, Market Square, Armory, Militia, Monument, Scout, Tactician, Treasury, Witch
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d4258e4b082c74d7b660a.1393448370159.txt

Key Cards: Ambassador, Tactician, Treasury

This game started out as an Ambassador war. I picked up a Tactician which Alexmf ignored. I think this allowed me to play Ambassador much more effectively. I picked up a few Treasuries and was thinking about double Tactician but it did not seem viable without any plus actions. We both completely ignored Witch. I also picked up some Market Squares and Vagrants and was able to draw my whole deck in the middle portion of the game with Tactician. This slowed down once I started greening.

Temron: 36 -- Alexmf 33


Given that Alex didn't buy Tactician, I would go double Tactician just to play Militia every turn. This might be wrong though; it does require you to overtrash a bit in order to handle your opponent's Ambassador plays.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 06:45:55 pm by hdu88 »
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Max7272sp

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 11:03:00 pm »
0

Max7272sp defeats Bama 3-1

Game 1 Bama wins 58-57

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.50b8f6aee4b015dcbac5eee2.1393470676315.txt

I honestly thought I had won this game - probably should have bought a duke instead of a gold in the midgame.

Game 2 Max wins 31-25

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.50b8f6aee4b015dcbac5eee2.1393471165488.txt

Rebuild game - getting 5 twice on my first shuffle sealed it.

Game 3 Max wins 36-25

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.50b8f6aee4b015dcbac5eee2.1393471937717.txt

Game 4 - Max wins 54-27
http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140226/log.50b8f6aee4b015dcbac5eee2.1393472639345.txt

taking the ironmonger split 6/4 helped me here
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2014, 01:48:47 am »
0

Game 4 : "The temptation of a lady" : TheMirrorMan wins.

Sometimes you see that card where you think : I really need this. This will give me a decisive advantage.
We both have 5/3 split (baker coin token). And I see ... Miss Molly on top of the knights. But damn, J-M is to start. He gets Masquerade/Mountebank ... and ... yes, I can buy my beloved Dame Molly and two Masquerades to throw the junk of the mountebank back, right!

Well, let's see, what is wrong with this plan ...
1) There is no stuff to trash in the deck yet!
2) Where am I going to get money from ? Well, free coppers from the Mountebank of course </end sarcasm>
3) My Masquerades collide 2 times ...

As the VP chart shows, J-M starts racing quickly and I'm stuck behind with a card that hits nothing special. Is this the end of round 2 ... ?

And then, in the end, I pull off one of the biggest tricks ... I'm 7 behind, so I can't go out ... But then I masquerade over a curse (and don't get one back), swinging 2 points and buying the last Province.

I have no idea how I pulled this off, but my apologies were sent to my opponent.

You could've got lucky to trash his masquerade or mountebank on t3 or 4 which would've been huge. But that is just a minor point. The crucial difference - imo - is the stables split of 5-2 in your favour. It's not out-of-space-unlikely that you somehow draw Molly and both masquerades together. Note that most of the time you had less coppers than he had, despite him giving you coppers via MB. He got quite unlucky in the beginning. However, from your description, I would've anticipated a much higher VP difference but he was ahead by just 1 province +/-2VP.

It's not the VP difference as such that was annoying, but that he's at 4 Provinces at turn 16 and I'm at 2. I HAVE to buy the remaining two provinces now with him being able to focus on Duchies... and then I need to chase that too (I even bought Dame Josephine to hope to be able to trash some of those). I just have the feeling I desperately cling on here. And when you're desperate, everything looks huge :)

I agree that the Stables build up was good, but I let him get away too far given my opening.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 03:39:44 am by TheMirrorMan »
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2.71828.....

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2014, 05:04:16 am »
+5

first of all, our match was amazing because we never had to restart.  1st player got put in first every time.  Now to the games

e defeats pst 3-0



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Procession, Rats, City, Count, Haggler, Venture, Goons, Grand Market, Forge
44-37 e wins

We have all sorts of good cards here.  City (but only good when upgraded), haggler, venture, goons, Grand Market, Forge.  However, no good source of +cards.  We both open silver/silver, and we both hit 6 on t3/t4.  He has 1st player advantage.  I actually kind of forget about forge, know that I need trashing, so go straight for a count.  He gets a goons.  I get fortunate and am able to trash 3 cards with count (meaning he didn't play goons when I had count in my hand) on t5 and t9, which trashes 3 estates and 3 coppers.  Also, on t8 I was able to play haggler to get a forge+Grand Market.  It snowballs from there.  I win the city split.  I start heavy trashing with forge.  I pick up my goons.  The big thing here is trashing though.  Early trashing is more important that early goons.



Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Storeroom, Familiar, Advisor, Monument, Thief, Counterfeit, Counting House, Grand Market, Forge
8-0 e wins
He opens 5/2, which is kind of unfortunate on a board where you want to go potion/storeroom.  I do the potion/storeroom, pick up a few candlestick makers and familiars, get way ahead on curses.  Also, I am saving up tokens for a forge, but am buying another key card here- advisor.  When you are able to have a small enough deck, advisor is huge in being able to draw everything, especially when you have your forge in hand and they let you keep your junk, which you trash for better cards.  I get ahead and finish it on 3 piles



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Hamlet, University, Trade Route, Coppersmith, Death Cart, Young Witch, Band of Misfits, Harvest, Junk Dealer, Mint
66-41 e wins

No real +cards, no real power cards, but we have a colony game.  University is not really good either because there is nothing good to gain (we both ignore university).  The key here is trashing again.  I get a 5/2 and open junk dealer/hamlet.  He takes a young witch and a silver.  His young witch hits me the first few times, but I keep buying junk dealers.  I get 3 junk dealers before my first gold.  I get a fourth shortly after it.  I pick up a BoM to use as Death Cart as a possible way to trash my extra Junk Dealers, but at worst it will just be a hamlet.  At the end of t14 I am where I want to be: 3 Junk dealers, 2 BoM, 2 hamlets, 2 golds, 2 platinums.  I pick up a mint before I start greening, and end up with a safe win.


Moral of the story: Trash, Trash, and Trash some more.  Thanks for the games pst.
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thetig333

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2014, 03:20:57 pm »
+4

TheTig333 defeats burtsbees 4-2

I am very new to this, so any comments/advice would be GREATLY appreciated! Here are the scores/kingdoms/logs/comments:

Game 1: burtsbees wins 41 - 35



Code: [Select]
Tunnel, Watchtower, Horse Traders, Rats, Taxman, Thief, Band of Misfits, Outpost, Venture, Wharf
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393455531305.txt

This was a Tunnel/Horse Traders game. I only got 3 of the Tunnels and had bad luck with them early which put me behind. Buying BOM on turn 4 might have been a mistake. I also bought the Penultimate Province, but I figured the game was basically over.

Game 2: burtsbees wins 27 - 24



Code: [Select]
Pawn, Armory, Quarry, Golem, Bandit Camp, Haggler, Hunting Party, Border Village, Grand Market, Possession
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393456594521.txt

This was a strong engine kingdom with Quarry, Border Villlage, Haggler, Grand Market, and Hunting Party. I sometimes bought Gold over Grand Market, which was probably a mistake. I didn't realize the value of Hunting Party until it was too late and my opponent really used them to his advantage. Neither of us went the Potion route (with Golem + Possesion), but I wonder how well that would have worked. Ended up being a close game.

Game 3: TheTig333 wins 25 - 23



Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Develop, Woodcutter, Bridge, Mining Village, Spy, Embassy, Graverobber, Jester, Rebuild
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393457268109.txt

While there were probably other viable strategies for this Kingdom, we both went for Rebuild. Luckily I started with 5/2 so I got an early Rebuild which really helped. We both got 4 Duchies but once I had turned all mine into Provinces, I trashed Province for Province, which limited my opponent to 3 Provinces, thus winning the game.

Game 4: TheTig333 wins 11 - 8



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Duchess, Oracle, Woodcutter, Workshop, Mining Village, Procession, Young Witch, Cultist, Outpost, Grand Market
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393458378854.txt

This game was all about cards that you couldn't trash. I'm talking about Curses from YW and Ruins from Cultist. My opponent opened with YW/Woodcutter (Bane). I really wanted to go for Cultist so I ignored the Bane entirely and only got one YW. I apparently faired pretty well with my one YW, giving my opponent 4 curses (I got 6). But in the meantime I used my Cultists to give my opponent all 10 Ruins, which really hurt. I also had a few Cultist chains which were pretty successful, and was able to buy the only Province of the game.

Game 5: TheTig333 wins 36 - 36



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Herbalist, Vagrant, JackOfAllTrades, Remake, Counterfeit, Embassy, Laboratory, Mine, Forge
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393459092784.txt

In this game we both started JOAT/Silver. Then he used his $5 buys to get Labs while I opted for Counterfeits instead. I ended up liking my choice. I come out with the win with a tie score due to less turns.

Game 6: TheTig333 wins 38 - 33



Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Great Hall, Herald, Navigator, Smithy, Count, Cultist, Mountebank, Soothsayer, Farmland
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393460128931.txt

I had another lucky 5/2 start in this game, and I snagged an early Mountebank. This game was really about Mountebank/Soothsayer with nothing to trash except for Farmland. My early start really helped. Also, my opponent bought 5 Heralds, which I really don't think helped him that much. One crazy thing this game was my turn 15. I wanted to buy a farmland and trash a gold for a Province. So I played my 2 Golds, then pressed the "play treasures" button, then bought a Farmland. OOPS. I accidentally played all my money and now have to trash my Colony... FOR NOTHING! Needless to say I was pretty annoyed (and I haven't played much online). Thankfully I still had the stronger deck and got the win.

Thanks for the fun games burtsbees! As I said before, anyone feel free to comment and tell me what I did wrong (and possibly right).
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lespeutere

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2014, 05:13:06 pm »
0

Game 2, you observed correctly: GM > gold, and HP > BC. Bandit Camp in fact adds 2 more different cards to your deck, so your few HP have an even harder job to do. I'd say that both of you underestimated cycling here, i.e. gaining a 2nd or 3rd HP is more important than a 2nd haggler, imho. I may be wrong, though, I'm making funny decisions atm.
Possession would've been interesting, I'd really like to try it.
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silverspawn

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2014, 05:14:41 pm »
0

Quote
Thanks for the fun games burtsbees! As I said before, anyone feel free to comment and tell me what I did wrong (and possibly right).

hm, i'm pretty sure that potion would've been the correct play on the second game. the problem is that quarry basically guarantees you'll get possession in a reasonable amount of time. Mh... I'm not sure how exactly you do it best, you could try to only buy treasure cards until you get to possessions, which would guarantee money targets for your golems, but it might be too slow. The alternative is to buy some action cards to help out, armory is nice to get lots of quarries, but it's an awful target for golem, I think the best thing would've been to open silver/quarry, get quarries with $4, hunting parties with $5, potion either before the second or before the third reshuffle, and then just golem/possession. If you don't buy any other cards until you get provinces, you're likely to dig for potion cards with hunting parties, and you will eventually get to >1 possession per turn. Haggler might be worth throwing in aswell, since it can let you gain possession and golem in one turn, but it's another target for golems when you would rather hit possessions.

Maybe that's still too slow. But I don't think it is.
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2014, 05:22:00 pm »
0

IMPORTANT NOTE

End of Round for Round 2 will be postponed by one week, to 10 March, due to Goko's extended downtime.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2014, 05:30:24 pm »
0

Please note the change in date to 10 March form 03 March.
You have a typo there: from => form
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lespeutere

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2014, 05:31:50 pm »
0

Quote
Thanks for the fun games burtsbees! As I said before, anyone feel free to comment and tell me what I did wrong (and possibly right).

hm, i'm pretty sure that potion would've been the correct play on the second game. the problem is that quarry basically guarantees you'll get possession in a reasonable amount of time. Mh... I'm not sure how exactly you do it best, you could try to only buy treasure cards until you get to possessions, which would guarantee money targets for your golems, but it might be too slow. The alternative is to buy some action cards to help out, armory is nice to get lots of quarries, but it's an awful target for golem, I think the best thing would've been to open silver/quarry, get quarries with $4, hunting parties with $5, potion either before the second or before the third reshuffle, and then just golem/possession. If you don't buy any other cards until you get provinces, you're likely to dig for potion cards with hunting parties, and you will eventually get to >1 possession per turn. Haggler might be worth throwing in aswell, since it can let you gain possession and golem in one turn, but it's another target for golems when you would rather hit possessions.

Maybe that's still too slow. But I don't think it is.

No, this is certainly not correct. If you go possession, you want to basically play the same game, i.e. have hagglers and HP as well as BV to play multiple possessions. Golem's not that important but if you hit 4$P w/o quarry, well, get one.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2014, 05:47:51 pm »
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hm, why? a golem/HP/possession deck should be able to play ~1,5 possessions each turn. a more complex engine will get more eventually, but it takes longer to set up, and it's not necessary, as long as you have more turns with your opponent's deck than he does (=play >1 possession each turn) and set it up before your opponent starts greening, you're already likely to win.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2014, 07:41:36 am »
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Haggler actually speeds up the building process: it let's you get 2 Hunting Parties off a Border Village and a Golem off a Possession purchase.
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lespeutere

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2014, 08:16:35 am »
0

Haggler actually speeds up the building process: it let's you get 2 Hunting Parties off a Border Village and a Golem off a Possession purchase.

It does: http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140228/log.50fa840ae4b0f82020d81dfd.1393593195555.txt
Even Lord Bottington could've ended it on t10ish when he hit t3 golem: http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140228/log.50fa840ae4b0f82020d81dfd.1393594007229.txt
(not sure why I cannot put it in the prettified log site; I haven't looked into getting the extension back to running, though)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 08:28:23 am by lespeutere »
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2014, 08:29:27 am »
0

(not sure why I cannot put it in the prettified log site; I haven't looked into getting the extension back to running, though)
Log pretifier at http://dom.retrobox.eu now only works when you put log manually there. We need to modify and move it somewhere.
Extension beta now produces broken log URL.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 08:31:39 am by yed »
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2014, 12:30:46 pm »
0

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?ingfun.com//20140228/log.516d4618e4b082c74d7b73c9.1393606590199.txt

Game 1: I get to open Mountebank/Pawn, it's never fun fighting that. He opens TMap/Lookout though, which just has to be 100% wrong. Well, he does connect his Maps quickly, but then what's 4 Golds when you get crushed by Curses? Then he masses Lookouts like he's silverspawn. It ends up a little closer than I would have expected...

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?ingfun.com//20140228/log.516d4618e4b082c74d7b73c9.1393607387305.txt

Again, I get the 5/2. Here it's a little more questionable and I open Bazaar/Lighthouse. Sir Martin is the top Knight, and as I said in another thread, I think he's a trap. When my opponent takes him, it means I have a good shot at getting the next, almost-certain-to-be-superior, Knight. He either doesn't get enough Lighthouses or they collide very poorly for him, because my Knights start to really beat him down (I mostly get all the better Knights, except Michael which goes to him but only gets played once). Trashing Knight comes through for me in a big way. We slog it out and I am in good shape.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?ingfun.com//20140228/log.516d4618e4b082c74d7b73c9.1393608027846.txt

Colony board. I see Apprentice/Graverobber as my ultimate source of draw, and Swindler/Silver is the best way to get there. He opens with Ironworks... too slow here, I think. Not enough economy. Then he heads the Apothecary route, and that can't be very good. I'm swindling away all his Coppers anyway. I actually give him back his Potion when I swindle it. Anyway, my plan goes off, basically without a hitch and he resigns.

Robz888 wins 3-0.

Thanks for the games, tenuki!
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2014, 02:28:44 pm »
+2

Quote
Game 1: I get to open Mountebank/Pawn, it's never fun fighting that. He opens TMap/Lookout though, which just has to be 100% wrong. Well, he does connect his Maps quickly, but then what's 4 Golds when you get crushed by Curses? Then he masses Lookouts like he's silverspawn. It ends up a little closer than I would have expected...
he probably didnt buy enough
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2014, 02:49:20 pm »
0

IMPORTANT NOTE

End of Round for Round 2 will be postponed by one week, to 10 March, due to Goko's extended downtime.
thanks kirian
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2014, 03:53:12 pm »
+1

ADK beats Julle 3-1

Game One

5/2 split on a Cultist board leads to any easy win. There's fun stuff with Tact/Vault but I don't realize until halfway through that you need Apothecary to make it work. Cultist/money would have probably been better.

Game Two

Familiar's on the board but we both ignore it, the engine is plenty strong with FV, Governor and Altar. He gets to the Prizes first and rides them to victory.

Game Three

No attacks to speak of but Wandering Minstrel and Council Room lead to a strong engine. On the last turn he's one coin short of Double Province, so all in all it's a close game.

Game Four

Baker/Butcher make for an extremely fun combo but I miss the Procession/Armory/Treasure Map combo until my opponent pulls it off mid-game. Butcher helps me narrowly win the VP dance, though.

Thanks for the games, Julle, and good luck in the rest of the tournament. I streamed this match, hopefully I can get youtube to play nice with my video uploads this time.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2014, 06:52:23 pm »
+1

florrat defeats WalrusMcFishSr 3-1

Game 1: florrat 1 - WalrusMcFishSr 0
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1393465792182.txt

florrat definitely deserved to win this one...I had a vague idea of going for Vineyards at some point, but my strategy was not really focused, and I made some rookie mistakes like Upgrading Shelters. He won the Vineyards split 5-3, and had a much better deck for pumping them up...I had hoped to get a few more Provinces, but it didn't pan out. Either way I was outplayed this game.

Game 2: florrat 1 - WalrusMcFishSr 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1393467158059.txt

This game went a bit better...he goes for Scrying Pools, I decide against it. I take a bunch of Lighthouses to deny him money and protect against scrying, and a couple more silvers help me hit 6 for Altar (only trashing) and Nobles (only village). Anyway I end up getting the last Duchy to win.

Game 3: florrat 2 - WalrusMcFishSr 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1393469006617.txt

A crazy, crazy board. Check out this Kingdom:

Hermit, Bishop, JackOfAllTrades, Walled Village, Ghost Ship, Merchant Ship, Tactician, Grand Market, Possession, King's Court, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Colony, Platinum, Potion

So long story short, KC-Possession madness. He definitely deserved to win...my Possession hands were kind of junk, but my Merchant Ships were probably a mistake, for example.

Game 4: florrat 3 - WalrusMcFishSr 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140226/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1393471022056.txt

A much closer game. There was an intense Knights war towards the end, and I thought I was leading, but my opponent squeaked out the victory.

Thanks florrat for the great set of games, lots of fun. Best of luck for the rest of the tourney!
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2014, 08:05:48 pm »
+4

Game 1:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393632537588.txt


A classic Hunting Party stack game. With Fishing Village as the Bane, Young Witch didn't seem so appealing here. My opponent opened FV/FV, while I opened FV/Chancellor. Chancellor performed admirably, but it wasn't quite enough to overcome my opponent's early lead in grabbing the Hunting Parties.

markusin 0 - 1 ashersky

Game 2:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393633265467.txt


It's always a bit annoying to have a 5/2 opening when there are no $2's. I was able to open with Upgrade though, but my opponent had a 4/3 start and could still open Remake. I had a pretty clear plan here though. Upgrade my Estates to Silvers and maybe Wishing Wells, set up a good turn for a Mint purchase, and Mint Gold to as I gain Provinces. It was a close game, and I feared the power of Council Room could do me in if I underestimated it. Fortunately, I myself was able to use it to good effect with all the Gold in my deck.

markusin 1 - 1 ashersky

Game 3:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393634666564.txt


This looked to be a pretty clear Minion engine game, with Pawn for support and Ambassador for deck thinning, but no action splitters to allow for much else. Horse Traders was present too, so it wasn't all bad. I emphasize deck thinning more than my opponent does, and I think it pays off in the end.

markusin 2 - 1 ashersky

Game 4:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393635519520.txt


My opponent opens double Swindler, yet gets horrible luck with them. They collide on turn 3, and don't really hit anything good (and my opponent mis-clicked and did Copper->Copper instead of Copper->Curse on one turn). My single Swindler, on the other hand, turns 2 of his Coppers into curses before getting trashed by my Apprentice. I see Apprentice with Haggler to provide fodder and Stonemason to take advantage of $7 turns. I figured if I can get a lead, I'd be able to rush the game end with lots of Apprentices. That's basically what happens.

markusin 3 - 1 ashersky

Thanks for the games ashersky, and for putting up with both the first player issues we had and the crazy time-zone difference between us.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 11:15:51 pm by markusin »
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Tables

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2014, 08:35:34 pm »
0

Tables defeats qtTamara.

Game 1: Tams 23 - 34 Tables
An engine board with Tournament, Wharf, Hamlet and Border Village. I build a big drawing engine after opening Tournament/Silver, getting BVs, Wharfs and some Hamlets. Later on an Expand is added and used to turn a BV into a Province, while the last turn of the game sees me win a tournament to pick up Princess, so that I'm able to afford to bu the last Province (and some Estates, in case I miscounted the score!)

Game 2: Tables 28 - 27 Tams
Much more of a slog this time, the kingdom featured Marauder, Witch, Ill-Gotten Gains and Cutpurse as attacks or attack-likes. I feel like Tams got much better early luck and capitalised on it well, but thanks to some later luck I managed to pull it back. Filling each others decks with junk and with me anticipating that would happen, I grabbed an early Squire for Silvers, and a Treasury for consistent money while building. Well, except I probably grabbed the Treasury too late. And should have added a Cartographer or multiple as well. My deck was stronger going into the lategame, while Tams had the early points advantage, and I was lucky enough that the game dragged on until I was able to end the game buying the final Duchy, and was also pleased I'd counted points correctly up to that point, to get the win.

Game 3: Tables 33 - 29 Tams
I'd never spotted or used this combo before, but Quarry + Stonemason is now something I love. By turn 8 my deck had four Markets and three Knights, plus I'd trimmed out two Estates. Meanwhile, Tams used his Quarry to pick up an early Forge, giving him a thinner deck with good cards. Unfortunately, I think that played into my Knight filled deck, as I trashed Silvers, Golds, Markets aplenty. Tams got an early point lead, but his deck couldn't keep it against my one once it was full of Knights, Markets and Golds, and I eventually caught up and three piled by gaining 4 Stonemasons with $6 (and I could have gained even more!)
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Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2014, 09:40:36 pm »
0

Titandrake 3-3 secret tunnel

You know that feeling you get when you realize you're awful at this game? I got that a lot.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393636008622.txt
Basically Masq-BM. I lose even despite the 5/2 because passing up Bank for Gold makes no sense (I think it cost me a Province), getting 1 Expand instead of a Gold hurt me pretty badly (I only got to play it once), and Nobles was a bit better than I expected. Turns out 2 VP tiebreaks are good, I keep forgetting that.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393637044254.txt
I try to make an Ambassador engine work, but there's Gardens + Armory as a counter, and the only +Action is University, so I lose. It takes too long to set up, that's the issue. However, I think Ambassador can work here, if you contest Gardens strongly enough with Butcher. Not sure about this game, it's tricky, but I suspect Gardens is good enough to win out here. If you don't contest with the Amb engine, you lose. If you do contest, you get slowed down enough that you probably still lose, even with Butcher to turn them into useful cards.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393638021288.txt
Colony game, Alchemist + Goons, Alchemist is only way to increase hand size besides Vault, and you can't afford Vault when your +Action source is Festival. secret tunnel misses $3P, and from there I can snowball my Alchemists and Upgrades to an easy win. (I think the Traders didn't help though, you really don't want Silver here if you can help it.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393639026615.txt
Scavenger Cultist Steward Mining Village as key cards. I'm undecided on the opening here. I went Scavenger/Steward, but it could have easily backfired, and it's a lot of terminals when you're going to be rushing Cultists. secret tunnel buys Gold over Cultist T4, and I think that costed the game. Waiving first cultist as second player is a bit of a death sentence.
My deck feels really slow after Ruins are done, despite the split being 3-7; most likely, I trashed a lot of my economy, and it gave a window for secret tunnel to catch up. Manage to pull it out.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393639990247.txt
I'm all pumped up for a Vineyard game, backed by Hamlet/Poor House/Nobles/Cartographer, and then midway through the game I realize, wait, Masterpiece-Feodum is a thing. I decide it's too late to switch, but I probably should have. Still would have lost, but it wouldn't have been so thorough.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.50a7e19be4b07a80ae66cba9.1393640481247.txt
Courtyard, Counterfeit, and IGG mean a BM strategy is clearly the best. secret tunnel ignores IGG early for Golds, whereas I pick up IGG + Counterfeit and skip Golds. I feel like although you normally want Gold with Counterfeit, you can actually skip it with IGG, since you don't run out of things to Counterfeit, which lets you pick up more Counterfeits than usual. Anyways, early IGG works out.

Once again, it turns out my non-engine play is pretty awful. I think the Cultist/Steward board might have a decent engine in it, but I decided to chicken out and go BM after getting the Ruins lead. Anyways, fun set.
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jaybeez

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2014, 10:42:31 pm »
0

Some very quick commentary on my 4-2 win over dethwing.  Mostly just to post the logs, really.

1. jaybeez wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393640530254.txt

We both go for the engine, and we both skip Count (the only trasher).  I think what really made the difference here is Heralds: I got all 10, he ignored them.  The game turned into a bit of a slog at the end, but my engine just had more staying power.

2. dethwing wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393641152186.txt

A textbook case of how NOT to manage piles.  Pretty embarrassing.

3. jaybeez wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393641881393.txt

I think I made some bad choices here (a second Soothsayer was probably a mistake) and he got Steed and Followers.  And I pull out a win, I have no earthly idea how.  I had 6 Golds to his 3, and he had 5 Curses to my 3.  Was that it?

4. dethwing wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393642482218.txt

There's Cultist and no trashing; on T3/T4 he gets Cultists, while I get Cultist at $6 and Silver.  That's pretty much the game.  The Ruins split goes 7-3 in his favor and there's really nothing I can do.

5. jaybeez wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393643292436.txt

I get too many terminals early and he gets out to a bit of a lead.  But then he greens too early (he uses coin tokens to buy a Province on T9-12) and I'm able to squeak out a 1-point win with a double-Province.  This game also served to reinforce my very low opinion of using your starting coin token to open Baker.  I really think that's always a bad move (or virtually always).

6. jaybeez wins - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1393644135731.txt

I think I won this with my split (Torturer/Chapel is a pretty nice opening, yeah).  But he opened Hermit/Mining Village which I don't think helped the situation, I think Hermit/Tournament is a lot better here.  Still, with a 3/4 opening on this board I think it's going to be very tough to beat Torturer/Chapel.  I get trashed down and get my draw engine going and by the time the Curses are gone and he's out from under the Torturers my deck is so much stronger than his there's nothing he can do.  I made a mistake in buying my second Province though, not sure what I was thinking there.  Not that it mattered.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 10:43:55 pm by jaybeez »
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KingZog3

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2014, 10:52:29 am »
+2

My games against soulnet. Drunkensailor is running slow or something. None of the logs of our games are up (but games I played today are).

Game 1- I couldn't find the log...Maybe it'll update soon and we'll get the log. But soulnet won. I don't remember what the game was

Game 2 -  Kingzog3 wins
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393686240262.txt


Code: [Select]
Beggar, Oasis, Warehouse, Wishing Well, Quarry, Worker's Village, Jester, Mandarin, Rogue, Hunting Grounds
A great engine board. I just manage to get things running faster and grab most of the villages, giving a stronger engine, control over piles and playing Jester tons.

game 3 - Soulnet wins
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393686731987.txt


Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Cellar, Hamlet, Fishing Village, Scheme, Trade Route, Philosopher's Stone, Ill-Gotten Gains, Inn, Altar
This is just embarrassing. Straightforward IGG rush with Altar. Not exciting. But I manage to end the game with a tie...except I went first. I felt so dumb when soulnet pointed that out to me in the next game. Either way I think I had lost. All he had to do was buy an Estate and I couldn't end it on the last Duchy. I also get a bit unlucky last turn with only $1 in my hand and unable to buy an estate. That would have won me the game.

Game - 4 Soulnet wins
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393687858510.txt


Code: [Select]
Apothecary, Fortune Teller, Advisor, Gardens, Throne Room, Bandit Camp, Duke, Mandarin, Merchant Ship, Grand Market
This one is interesting. I get a huge lead, but am unable to get the last Province. In retrospect, I should have built more, gotten a Grandmarket too. Soulnet gets 6VP Dukes, which is the end for me. There was debate after that my last Province should have been a Duchy (not that it mattered), but to deny points for his Dukes. I'm not so sure. I basically had to hope for a lucky $8 to win, which didn't come.

EDIT: And soulnet gets the logs! Hooray.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 10:58:09 am by KingZog3 »
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2014, 10:53:25 am »
+2

soulnet 3 - 1 KingZog3

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393685578434.txt
Apothecary, Masquerade, Steward, Death Cart, Remodel, Horn of Plenty, Merchant Ship, Stables, Witch, Border Village

Pretty clearly HoP engine, with Stables for draw, Masq for trashing and even Border Village / Remodel tricks that neither ends up doing because the game is so fast. The only difference is that he goes Apothecary, but I think it is going to be slow and choose to try to trash faster with Masq. He speeds up first, with my Masq missing the first shuffle, but then I get HoP early, which speeds up the building. In the end, it is pretty close. I green early without trashing the HoPs because the piles are running low. I think he overbuilds and then cashes into triple-Province, but I have 3 HoPs, so all I need is a reasonably good turn, which I get, to get the last 4 Provinces and win.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393686240262.txt
Beggar, Oasis, Warehouse, Wishing Well, Quarry, Worker's Village, Jester, Mandarin, Rogue, Hunting Grounds

This is pretty clearly Worker's Village / Hunting Grounds engine with Quarry. Quarry makes Hunting Grounds not so expensive, and with the best village for it, it is impossible to pass on the engine. We basically mirror opening Warehouse/Quarry. I think I got way worse draws and he builds the engine well, including horrible Jester luck and not matching the Villages with Quarry or the terminals early, so he wins handily.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393686731987.txt
Candlestick Maker, Cellar, Hamlet, Fishing Village, Scheme, Trade Route, Philosopher's Stone, Ill-Gotten Gains, Inn, Altar

Pretty weak board, clearly IGG rush with Altar for support. There is not even time to get villages and double on Altar. We both open double Silver. I get $3 on T3 and I gamble with Scheme because there is a reasonable chance to get $6 for Altar on the next turn, but it does not happen. In any case, I have enough economy to get Altar and the Scheme is more important than more Silver. IGG provides money anyway. In the end, it is a pretty close mirror. After some horrible draws, I gamble in a double Duchy turn leaving one Duchy and taking a 4 point lead. He is first player, so he needs to trash Curse, Gain Duchy and buy Estate, but I know from Scheme he has the Altar in hand. Since I have less economy and already greened, I think it is better to gamble than to do Duchy/Estate. He does have the Curse but not the money for the Estate, but still finishes up the Duchies instead of dragging the game, so I win on turns. In the afterchat, he said he was not aware that he was losing on turns, he thought he was taking a tie. He took it graciously, refusing a rematch offer.

Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140301/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1393687858510.txt
Apothecary, Fortune Teller, Advisor, Gardens, Throne Room, Bandit Camp, Duke, Mandarin, Merchant Ship, Grand Market

There are several options here, and I was not sure what to do. There is not great support for Duke, but the Province engine is slow and there is not even a great BM enabler. I choose to take Apothecary into Merchant Ships and some Grand Markets. I think it is good to overbuid, because you have Dukes if you fall behind on Provinces. He finds himself in better shape with faster Apothecary build, so he goes straight from Apothecary with one Advisor plus Merchant Ships and Throne Rooms into Provinces. He spikes the Provinces fast and I start grabbing Duchies. He did not finish the Province pile on time and I get to 6 VP Dukes thanks to having the +Buy from Grand Markets and a larger and stronger deck. After I surpass the 6 VP lead, there is almost no way he can catch up. I am worried that Gardens may give him points, but he keeps taking Dukes (possibly also necessary to deny them to me).

Thanks KingZog3, it was nice to play with you, even if we did not get the most fun boards.

If someone can comment, especially on the last game, it would be great.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2014, 07:59:46 pm »
+1

Thanks for the games markusin!
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2014, 07:16:35 am »
0

In my match against Marin there was a $2P Familiar fail, a game in which Marin outplays me, a game in which I outplay Marin and finally this gem:



Code: [Select]
Moat, Black Market, Watchtower, Workshop, Conspirator, Treasure Map, Bazaar, Ill-Gotten Gains, Witch, Possession

Black market deck cards: Gardens, Hoard, Horn of Plenty, Spy, Navigator, Feast, Rogue, Council Room, Rats, Pirate Ship,
Masterpiece, Throne Room, Woodcutter, Oasis, Noble Brigand, Merchant Guild, Warehouse, Horse Traders, Fairgrounds,
Grand Market, Hunting Grounds, Forge, Tactician, Apprentice, Nobles

There's nothing terribly exciting in the Black Market, so I skip it and go pretty much BM Witch.  24 turns later, with 5 Provinces and 5 Duchies, I lose by 3 points.  That's right, Marin wins because both of Fairgrounds and Gardens are in the Black Market deck.

Looking back, although the Black Market deck has no stand out cards, there's just enough to make it worth going into.  There are Buys (which the Kingdom lacks), trashing (the game would have been over much quicker if Marin had hit $4 for Rats on his fourth turn, and Forge will do a serious job clearing up the Curses if you also manage to grab Tactician or some other draw) and of course all of this boosts the value of the lone Fairgrounds.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2014, 08:21:56 am »
+1

I won 3-1 against Qmech with I think 2 really interesting game.
The first one was a classic familiar game, you miss your potion, you lost! So I won this only by luck...
The second one was interesting, there are tunnel + embassy one of the strongest combo of the game but really boring too...
Qmech went for it when I went for a engine based on menagerie + outpost (outpost is still totally underrated I think...), I think my strategy was way more powerful (menagerie with horse trader + embassy for discard works really well).
The third one was not as much stupid as first one but not that much interesting neither (no + action and no throne room.. ^^), we both went for a grand-market + warehouse strategy but he did it way better than me and finally got the game...
The last one was really the game that I preferred. Black market is one of my favorite card, I think I always buy at least one of them every game, moreover when watchtower is on the board.
I think I got pretty unlucky at the beginning (I have got my blackmarkets together twice early) so I thought that the game was already lost... but at the end, Qmech get no luck at all (he got 3 times 6 and 2 times 7 in the last 5 turn...) which allows me to get the victory.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2014, 06:56:24 pm »
+1

Aardshark ties Trogden the Burnator in 6 games:

Game 1 (Aardshark 1st, tie)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140228/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393643434227.txt
Board has fishing village but no great card drawing. Warehouse money with fools gold seems like the best strategy, but when he fights me for fools gold I let him have 6 and look for opportunities to trash mine to trade routes or counterfeit, or convert to golds. Game is tight. I win the province split, but an extra duchy and me trashing my estates give him the tie.

Game 2 (Trogdor 1st, Aardshark wins)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140228/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393644086426.txt
Board lacking in + actions. We both go for money based strategies. Journeyman pushes me over the edge as a pseudo smithy, allowing me to take the 5th province turn 14. 

Game 3 (Trogdor 1st, tie)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140228/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393646000856.txt
Interesting board with powerful actions, including, hunting pack, urchin, highways, and golem, and lighthouse. We build similar decks, though he goes for potion and golem, which I forgo. I trail most of the game, but somehow catch up at the end to tie. 

Game 4 (Aardshark 1st, Trogdor wins)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140228/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393647692650.txt
I try to build an engine built around menagerie + inn, but can't get it going. Trogdor crushes me with possession combined with a better economy. As the graph shows I trailed the whole game, and after turn 17 my position is unrecoverable. Even though he was in the lead, Trogdor resigned this game because he had to leave, and intended to concede the match to me. I gave the game to him because there was literally no way for me to win, and suggested we adjourn our match for our final two games, which we did. 

Game 5 (Aardshark 1st, Aardshark wins)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140302/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393796087434.txt
Trogdor wins the minion split, but I get wharfs going quickly after minions run out and have a slightly better economy. Think Trogdor's deck got bogged down with alt vps that didn't quite net him enough.

Game 6 (Trogdor 1st, Trogdor wins)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140302/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393797207121.txt
Board lacks coherent engine. Cards like swindler, jester, and courtyard put us both on money based strategies. We split dutchies and provinces, but trogdor won this slog with three extra estates. Fitting end to a very tight match.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 06:57:45 pm by aardshark »
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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2014, 06:34:46 am »
+2

Game 3:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140228/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1393634666564.txt


This looked to be a pretty clear Minion engine game, with Pawn for support and Ambassador for deck thinning, but no action splitters to allow for much else. Horse Traders was present too, so it wasn't all bad. I emphasize deck thinning more than my opponent does, and I think it pays off in the end.
You have made same mistake several times: play Minion for $2, when you already had enought coins for what you bought and that Minion allowed your opponent to reveal Horse Traders. It would be better not to play Minion in that situation.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2014, 02:29:25 pm »
+2



Game 1
I know some people tried to insult Golem recently, but I still think it's a very good card.
It turns regular engines into super engines, and slogs into sort-of-engines.
I'm not going to claim that it brought me victory here, because my opponent started greening just way too early, but I do think it's an essential part of the winning strategy.



Game 2 is a trash-down-and-get-the-prices festival.
He trashes down on his turn 7, not the winning choice.
However, I also misplay my turn 7. At that point I have 1 province to 0, and I know the remaining 5 cards of my deck have that province with 2 tournaments.
I also know he can't have $8 as long as I have that tournament to block. Then I play the upgrade, opening a small window for the only way I'm ever still going to lose this game: draw that province dead now. When not playing it is a sure win, why risk it?



Game 3 he goes straight for IGG. I'm lucky to connect my urchins on the first attempt, but straight IGG has to be wrong either way. The trashing of Mercenary is just too good, and in the end IGG is just a Silver wannabe.


Thanks for the games EgorK. I'm sorry these were not your best games... none of them got really close. Good luck in the next rounds though.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2014, 05:07:07 pm »
0

Game 1:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1393870977400.txt
My turn 2 Noble Brigand trashes his silver and nothing else major happens as Vault-BM goes smoothly to the end

Game 2:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1393872695336.txt
Governor powered-Goons engine- He goes for the Governor into Provinces route which loses to the more powerful VP engine, though he is one buy off the win near the end.

Game 3:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1393873069723.txt
I think a turn 1 Embassy buy just gives your opponent too much of a headstart and in a straight draw BM match up, that little extra money- especially via the Harems, and some luck on smooth 8 hands gives me another win.

Some reasonably interesting boards, and a nice match, though probably Lady Luck was rather more lenient with me than azadin today.
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amalloy

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2014, 12:08:58 am »
+1

amalloy defeats Delirious Deleuze 3-0.



Game 1



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Great Hall, Sage, Scheme, Urchin, Gardens, Procession, Remake, Ghost Ship, Tribute
I didn't see anything here much better than Ghost Ship BM, but Remake helps thin early, and Scheme is a big addition: Scheme the Remake early for super-fast trashing, and then later Scheme the Ghost Ship to keep the pressure on. I got some very nice draws with my early buys, and things just came together pretty well.



Game 2



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Ambassador, Oracle, Ironworks, Scavenger, Scout, Explorer, Governor, Mint, King's Court
It seemed pretty clear to me to go KC/Governor after an Ambassador opening to thin down, but the details of how best to get that going are still not at all clear to me. But eventually I got initiative on Governors, which got me the first two King's Courts, and then the first explosive turn, and at that point it was very hard for my opponent to recover. One interesting point in the endgame, though: I had planned to use my Governors to remodel piles of gold into provinces, but had forgotten that with KC on board, my opponent could remodel into provinces during my turn as well! My opponent seems not to have spotted that, as even at the very end he kept his two KCs in hand; that wouldn't have won him the game, but it would have been closer, given that he started greening before I did.



Game 3



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Apothecary, Scrying Pool, Chancellor, Develop, Armory, Harvest, Knights, Wharf, Expand
Here we were both unsure of how to approach the kingdom. I decided to go for mainly Wharf/money, figuring that if he went for knights I'd have enough economy to pivot into knights fast enough to not lose that split; but I didn't want to spend precious actions on playing knights if I could help it.

Well, he went for knights, and got quite lucky with them: got two of the best, and then hit my Wharf on his first try. Eventually I rallied and had enough knights that I felt comfortable going back to Wharf/money. But my opponent started picking up Expand, and was able to use them to great effect: the game ended much faster than my mediocre money deck was ready for, as he was aggressively remodeling into province before I had enough money for colony; and I couldn't get provinces either without helping end the game.

I just barely squeaked by in the end, after a tense couple of turns in which there was only one province left and neither of us could get it. In fact, my opponent could have ended it on a win on turn 25, by expanding Province into Province and buying Estate for the 1-VP margin (he had the VP counter on, so we were both aware of the tactical situation).


Anyway, thanks for the pleasant match, Delirious Deleuze, and good luck in the rest of the tournament!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 12:12:11 am by amalloy »
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michaeljb

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2014, 01:25:20 am »
+2

Game 1
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1393910918232.txt

A Familiar board, also featuring Governor, Stonemason, Cartographer, Fishing Village, and Library. I go heavier on Cartographers, AHoppy gets some Fishing Villages + Library. After the Curses were distributed, the game transitioned into more Governor-centric fare, and I was just able to eke out the win, drawing what I needed for a double Province at the end.

AHoppy 23-35 michaeljb


Game 2
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1393911570125.txt
AHoppy picks up a Soothsayer with the 5/2 opening, but I prefer to use Noble Brigand to take his Gold and buy IGGs to give him Curses, so I pass on the Soothsayer. Treasures are flying back and forth, and AHoppy comes out with greater wealth. I had a decent lead for a while, but couldn't hold it.

On my turn 21, with a hand of 2 Silvers + 3 Coppers, I planned to buy a Farmland and remodel Copper into Estate, but somehow very stupidly played all my treasures except a Silver. Then on turn 28, I was down by one point and could have bought the last Farmland, remodeling an Estate to the last Noble Brigand, and I would have lost on turns. Possibly that earlier missed Farmland would have hurt one of my hands enough that my final turn wouldn't have been as close, but man that's frustrating to see.

michaeljb 28-32 AHoppy


Game 3
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1393912122719.txt

I get beaten around pretty badly by AHoppy's Swindlers early on; even my first play isn't great--I drew both Trader and Swindler and could have Traded an Estate, instead Swindled AHoppy's Copper into Curse which he Traded for Silver. My Soothsayer was taken out almost immediately, but things began to turn around when my Soothsayer-turned-Duchy met up with my Trader, and I got 5 Silvers out of the deal. After that, I basically rode Caravans, Oases, and draw from AHoppy's Soothsayer to victory.

michaeljb 38-20 AHoppy


Game 4
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140303/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1393913081278.txt

An awkward board that, like Game 1, starts out Cursers (Young Witch here) before transitioning to something else. That something else for me was Menagerie+Highway+Butcher+Bishop. OK so they don't all go together, but using Bishop still helped Menagerie even if its point production was hurt by Highway, and Highway was important at the end. AHoppy didn't get trashed down enough, and had fewer engine pieces than me, enabling me to pull away in the last few turns.

AHoppy 27-47 michaeljb

Series final: michaeljb 3-1 AHoppy

Thanks for the games, AHoppy, it was a good time. Best of luck in the rest of the tourney! :)

edit: also thanks to Kirian for extending round 2 in light of the server transition! Completely wiped out our original meeting time  ;D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 01:27:19 am by michaeljb »
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2014, 03:36:50 pm »
+4

AdamH defeats Psyduck 3-0
YouTube video playlist link
Entire stream on Twitch


Game 1: Psyduck 21, AdamH 32
Game log
YouTube video link



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Vagrant, Sage, Wishing Well, Mining Village, Quarry, Ghost Ship, Altar, Farmland, Goons
With Ghost Ship and Goons flying around, and only weak/expensive draw and trashing available, this one wasn't going to be much fun. It's a mirror so the game likely will come down to who can play more Goons. We go mostly for the same thing but I get a second Quarry and my second Goons earlier and I'm able to focus a little bit more on villages as a result of it. Also, he prefers Sage where I prefer Wishing Well as a soft counter to Ghost Ship. As second player I feel very much behind after the first few shuffles but I'm still keeping up, and eventually I'm able to get two double-Goons turns to win the game.

He trashed his Mining Villages aggressively toward the endgame, which should have made me want to make the game longer to be safer, but after my first double-Goons turn I feel comfortable going more aggressively for piles and it works out. This game took over a half hour and was kind of exhausting, and it was only the first one!

Re-watching this game, I realize that my endgame wishes are pretty bad. I know it isn't easy, but it's so hard to know what the right wish is to make. I only got a glimpse of the chat in between games (and I forgot to save it off later like an idiot, but from what I saw it would have been hard to match it to what was going on in the game anyways) so maybe they were talking about it then.


Game 2: AdamH 48, Psyduck 35
Game log
YouTube video link



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Vineyard, Duchess, Doctor, Hermit, Masquerade, Mining Village, Spy, Taxman, Rogue
So do you go for a Vineyard-based slog or just Masquerade+BM? It's a really tough call for me but after a shuffle I decide to just play money. Maybe it isn't very good but all of the things you can gain are terminal, there are no villages other than Madman, and there's no +Buy. Psyduck, on the other hand, has both of his opening buys miss his shuffle and is way behind, so he goes for Vineyards. Before we've both committed to our strategies, I waffle a bit in the middle and pick up a Taxman which isn't terrible probably isn't very good. Later when it's clear I need to get all 8 Provinces to win I go with a Hermit for Silver-gaining and trash the Taxman at no cost (which has to be lucky for me).

His deck works pretty well and comes close in the endgame, but I never feel like it's close enough for me to get Duchies so I come away with what looks like a clear win where my position is good throughout, but I really wonder if Vineyards is the better strategy here? He was far behind in the beginning with his first shuffle, and he also said he had some Potion collisions.


Game 3: AdamH 33, Psyduck 29
Game log
YouTube video link



Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Chapel, Develop, Fishing Village, Loan, Advisor, JackOfAllTrades, Scavenger, Margrave, Rebuild
What a board, here! Rebuild with Estates and strong support with Jack, Fishing Village, and even Scavenger, but there's a super-fast engine to play here too with Chapel, FV, Jack, and Margrave (with Scavenger to support it). I decide that if it's possible for an engine to beat Rebuild then this is the board for it, so I go engine. I figure if I lose this game then I'll just quit Dominion forever because of Rebuild (just kidding). He goes for Rebuilds with support and the race is on.

Things go relatively well for both of us. I think my only mistake in this game is picking up a second Jack just for Silver gaining, which eventually caused me to have a dud hand and not get Fishing Villages in play -- this probably slowed me down a couple of turns. Maybe more Margraves for draw would have helped with this?

I think a critical turn in the midgame, though, was where I took the time to empty the last three Duchies from the pile. It turned out this was a really clutch move that hurt Psyduck quite a bit and gave me the pace I needed to stake out enough of a lead that my broken engine could just limp across the finish line (since he didn't have that much hope of buying Provinces). Mostly I was just really excited to play an engine that beat Rebuild with strong support.


So as I mentioned before, I forgot to grab the chat transcript to look over. From what I remember when I scanned over the chat, I saw them criticising my every small mistake (which is so amazing to have good players do that, I'm not even being sarcastic) and talking with each other about the match. I'm not sure what I could have gotten out of it after the match was over, but I'm really glad that a lot of people showed up to watch. I'm hoping they got a lot out of it and it seems they did. I think this match got more viewers than I've ever had at once on my channel, so thank you so much to everyone that watched and chatted! I even played a few extra games for fun with some people in the chat after the match was over and there was talk of having a quick Best-of-one "tournament" among the people there. That would be lot of fun to set up, even though I don't know how feasible it is.

I played Psyduck in the semifinals of the Team World Cup and it was a really tough match, he's a very good player and I knew I had to be on my game. In that match, I won the first three games and he won the last three, which in that format was a tie. I have no doubt that he would have won the next three games here if we could play them :P . I know I'll be going up against 2-0 people next round but I feel like this match might still be tougher than next week's. Consider that a challenge to prove me wrong...

Thanks again to Kirian for the one-week extension, we got pretty hosed by the Goko update and I would have been disappointed if we couldn't play this match, and it's just gravy that I got to stream it. Streaming tournament matches is turning out to be really successful and I'm looking forward to more of it.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 09:06:36 am by AdamH »
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2014, 03:42:50 pm »
+2

Thanks for the interesting games and postgame chats, Adam. I just got kicked out of Goko so I couldn't say bye.
I'm going to add some comments as well, probably tomorrow. First I want to watch your videos to see if my assessment of the games is correct.

Edit: I've had some time to think about the matches, and review the logs and videos.

Game 1 Game log
During the game I felt that my terminals and my villages weren't distributed very favorably (meaning either collisions or village chains). Now I feel my draws were actually a bit better than Adam's, so there is no point blaming shuffle luck in this game. Rather, I noticed three differences in our play, which finally decided the game:

- Second Quarry. Adam got one, I didn't. Simple story. :) It helped a lot getting Goons and then buying stuff with Goons in play.
- Second Goons. Adam got his very early, while I bought my second as an act of desperation when it was already too late. I should have gotten it instead of Altar, which was a distraction (also for Adam later). Goons was the key card here to score points, so having more than one helped scoring points more frequently and made strong double Goons turns (of which Adam had two) possible. Furthermore, Goons was the stronger attack compared to Ghost Ship at least in the second part of the game, as both of us had multiple cards that countered Ghost Ship (see next point).
- Wishing Well instead of Sage. Both did a good job countering Ghost Ship. Wishing Well lets you return the two cards to your hand (which is good if you have a strong hand), Sage lets you skip two cards (which is good if you have a weak hand). The usual disadvantage of Sage didn't apply here, as we didn't aim at green cards that much. So the best play may have been to start with some Sages to draw past the Coppers and Estates and then switch to Wishing Wells again when the density of good card has increased. Instead, Adam went for Wells, I went for Sages. However, I underestimated the control Wishing Wells offer you for designing your turns. In comparison, I was stuck with the Sages drawing just the next 'good' card.

These were my minor mistakes, I think, but on this level you just don't get away with these.

Game 2 Game log   
So here we have Masquerade-BM vs. Vineyards. The first one is quite good, but Vineyards clearly lack support. No +buy, no spammable cheap cards like Vagrant, Wishing Well, Sage (see last game ;) ), Candlestick Maker, Haven, Menagerie, Great Hall etc. And the only gainer is Hermit, which is terminal and lets you only gain cards that cost up to $3, which in addition are quite bad here: Doctor and Duchess, and of course Hermit (which of course is not a bad card at all, but in this context not optimal either). Ah, yeah, and there is Transmute. So I decide to go with Masquerade-BM and take some risk as second player in what seems to become a mirror. My second starting card is Hermit to trash faster and gain Silvers. But then they don't only collide, they do so in turn 5. After three turns I'm so much behind it's not even funny. Thus I switch to Vineyards and buy a Potion, expecting Masq-BM to get some problems buying all the Provinces.
Of course Masq-Hermit is not an optimal start for Vineyards. Hermit is good, but I'm not sure what the best start would've been. Mining Village? Another Hermit? Even Spy? Potion already?
Our goals are clear now, but I think both of us don't play it optimally. I don't like Adam's Taxman, but his Hermit did a good job for his longevity. My biggest mistake is to buy the Vineyards too late. I really needed all of them, but only got 5. I needed more Potions early, and Transmute should've been a Vineyard already. In addition, I completely messed up a turn with Mining Village, Mining Village, Hermit, Potion, Copper in hand. I wanted to buy Vineyard anyway, so playing Hermit, gaining Hermit, buying Vineyard would've been the correct play. Instead I got greedy, played the Mining Villages (hoping for more Hermits), triggered the shuffle and drew..Potion and Silver. :( Here I lost two Potion plays.
I'm not sure if I'd had a chance to win the game if I had played that better, but now I certainly didn't have.
Also, Adam played it very well (except for the Taxman :P ), staying calm and building enough economy to get to 8 Provinces reasonably quick.


Game 3 Game log
This game has been already been subject of discussion during the last days. There is not much more to add from my side. I don't believe I played my Rebuild optimally, but Rebuild was the wrong decision here anyway. I was just afraid Rebuild could be too fast with all that support, so I went for it myself. That was a mistake. Adam played the engine instead, and won.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 11:06:53 am by Psyduck »
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2014, 09:09:58 am »
+1

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2014, 12:00:22 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

I think that likely gives you an advantage: For me, its hard to be 100% focused on the game even while playing.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2014, 12:39:11 pm »
+2

I watched all three games, well done, Adam!

In this first game, I do think you erred big time in trying to shorten the game. You were always going to win long, but there was a chance you could have an off turn and lose by quickly draining piles. So I do think that was a mistake... after he trashed his Mining Villages, he basically had no long game chances, so if I were you I would have taken Duchy/Vagrant on that turn where you emptied the Wells instead.

The second game, I mostly agree with you, and I THINK BM Masq will always seal the deal there, although it can be close. I really didn't like your Taxman, though. Should have been a Hermit. You did swap them out quickly though.

The third game is the biggest question mark in my mind, because I did not leave it convinced that Rebuild should actually lose there! It was not Engine vs. Rebuild, it was Engine vs Double Jack/Rebuild. Psyduck's hybrid strategy was always going to lose. But is Rebuild + Scavenger going to lose to your engine? I don't think so. I mean, while it's definitely a good engine, it still sort of lacks something to do. If Scavenger were Bridge or Monument or Merchant Guild, then yes, engine 100%. But as is, I don't know.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2014, 12:47:47 pm »
0

The third game is the biggest question mark in my mind, because I did not leave it convinced that Rebuild should actually lose there! It was not Engine vs. Rebuild, it was Engine vs Double Jack/Rebuild. Psyduck's hybrid strategy was always going to lose. But is Rebuild + Scavenger going to lose to your engine? I don't think so. I mean, while it's definitely a good engine, it still sort of lacks something to do. If Scavenger were Bridge or Monument or Merchant Guild, then yes, engine 100%. But as is, I don't know.

I'm surprised to hear you say all of this: gaining Silvers with Jack and drawing your deck with FV+Margrave and buying provinces seems like something to do...

...and I thought Jacks were good support for Rebuild, am I just mistaken here? Maybe one Jack instead of two? He did play with a Scavenger, too, I think. I admit I wasn't paying close attention to how he got there, I was just paying attention to what he could do.
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: March 05, 2014, 12:50:36 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
Yeah I can understand that. I think I actually focus on the game MORE when recording matches.

In general, I focus pretty heavily on the game. For this reason, I don't use the sidebar chat available in the new Salvager update. I'll always see the messages late, never knowing exactly what moment is being referred to by my opponent. In fact, I might never notice the chat messages at all if they are on the side, or on the top right corner as they are in Isotropic Innovation.

So yes, I prefer Goko's chat window opening up to block my cards over the sidebar chat.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: March 05, 2014, 12:53:16 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
Yeah I can understand that. I think I actually focus on the game MORE when recording matches.

In general, I focus pretty heavily on the game. For this reason, I don't use the sidebar chat available in the new Salvager update. I'll always see the messages late, never knowing exactly what moment is being referred to by my opponent. In fact, I might never notice the chat messages at all if they are on the side, or on the top right corner as they are in Isotropic Innovation.

So yes, I prefer Goko's chat window opening up to block my cards over the sidebar chat.

I should have been more clear, the bolded "the chat" above is referring to the Twitch chat, not the Goko chat. But yes I see your point.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: March 05, 2014, 01:08:53 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
Yeah I can understand that. I think I actually focus on the game MORE when recording matches.

In general, I focus pretty heavily on the game. For this reason, I don't use the sidebar chat available in the new Salvager update. I'll always see the messages late, never knowing exactly what moment is being referred to by my opponent. In fact, I might never notice the chat messages at all if they are on the side, or on the top right corner as they are in Isotropic Innovation.

So yes, I prefer Goko's chat window opening up to block my cards over the sidebar chat.

I should have been more clear, the bolded "the chat" above is referring to the Twitch chat, not the Goko chat. But yes I see your point.
I knew what you meant, but it's the same problem. Probably worse actually. I haven't used twitch to stream though, so I don't know exactly where the twitch chat is positioned on Your screen.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2014, 01:18:14 pm »
0

It seems when I stream these matches that while I'm playing, 100% of my focus goes into the game, even in between games. When it's over, it looks like part of my focus is going towards catching up on the chat and trying to interact there, and so I'm not as responsive in the Goko chat. Sorry about that... I have to get used to putting my focus in a couple of different places at once to get the level of interaction I want, which will just take some more practice.

Anyways, I always wish we could have talked more but I assumed you just had to go. Thanks for the match, Psyduck!
Yeah I can understand that. I think I actually focus on the game MORE when recording matches.

In general, I focus pretty heavily on the game. For this reason, I don't use the sidebar chat available in the new Salvager update. I'll always see the messages late, never knowing exactly what moment is being referred to by my opponent. In fact, I might never notice the chat messages at all if they are on the side, or on the top right corner as they are in Isotropic Innovation.

So yes, I prefer Goko's chat window opening up to block my cards over the sidebar chat.

I should have been more clear, the bolded "the chat" above is referring to the Twitch chat, not the Goko chat. But yes I see your point.
I knew what you meant, but it's the same problem. Probably worse actually. I haven't used twitch to stream though, so I don't know exactly where the twitch chat is positioned on Your screen.

When I play tournament matches it's minimized so I don't look at it. The only other window that's up is OBS so I can easily tell if my stream craps out.

When I stream normally, I have Dominion on one monitor and Twitch chat on another; but I'm usually playing more casually, and I frequently have my opponent on Skype, and usually several other things going on too.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2014, 02:37:56 pm »
0

The third game is the biggest question mark in my mind, because I did not leave it convinced that Rebuild should actually lose there! It was not Engine vs. Rebuild, it was Engine vs Double Jack/Rebuild. Psyduck's hybrid strategy was always going to lose. But is Rebuild + Scavenger going to lose to your engine? I don't think so. I mean, while it's definitely a good engine, it still sort of lacks something to do. If Scavenger were Bridge or Monument or Merchant Guild, then yes, engine 100%. But as is, I don't know.

I'm surprised to hear you say all of this: gaining Silvers with Jack and drawing your deck with FV+Margrave and buying provinces seems like something to do...

...and I thought Jacks were good support for Rebuild, am I just mistaken here? Maybe one Jack instead of two? He did play with a Scavenger, too, I think. I admit I wasn't paying close attention to how he got there, I was just paying attention to what he could do.

Okay, but what's the best thing your deck can do? The answer is, double Province, and reliably Margrave your opponent. The Margrave attack is annoying but not hugely detrimental to your opponent. Double Province is good, but you need like 10 Turns of building to get there. And your deck isn't amazingly reliable. You draw it one turn, and then don't draw it the next.

I'm skeptical whether Jack is all that good for Rebuild, but anyway, Rebuild + Scavenger is a thing. Your opponent picked up the Scavenger after messing around with Jacks for a while. That's not the way to do it.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: March 05, 2014, 02:49:07 pm »
0

I could very well be wrong, but I think people are discounting Rebuild a little too much these days. To beat it, the engine has to be either very fast, or really explosive, and yours was neither. On the other hand, Scavenger is one of the only cards providing relatively significant support to Rebuild.
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Psyduck

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2014, 02:54:54 pm »
0

In this first game, I do think you erred big time in trying to shorten the game. You were always going to win long, but there was a chance you could have an off turn and lose by quickly draining piles. So I do think that was a mistake... after he trashed his Mining Villages, he basically had no long game chances, so if I were you I would have taken Duchy/Vagrant on that turn where you emptied the Wells instead.

I've heard some criticism about my trashing Mining Villages too early. I really don't think I trashed my Villages prematurely. The first one was in turn 14, and the sole purpose was to deny Adam the sixth, as I only had $2 without trashing. Then I sacrificed one in turn 18 to get my second Goons. The other two were trashed in my last turn. But I agree that Duchy/Vagrant would've been the safer call for him.

The third game is the biggest question mark in my mind, because I did not leave it convinced that Rebuild should actually lose there! It was not Engine vs. Rebuild, it was Engine vs Double Jack/Rebuild. Psyduck's hybrid strategy was always going to lose. But is Rebuild + Scavenger going to lose to your engine? I don't think so. I mean, while it's definitely a good engine, it still sort of lacks something to do. If Scavenger were Bridge or Monument or Merchant Guild, then yes, engine 100%. But as is, I don't know.

So do you think Rebuild is stronger without a Jack for support? Jack gives you some money, which can make the difference, and countered Margrave nicely. I assume that the second one was too much, though, but I haven't had time to analyse that game deeper.
What I can say by now is that I shouldn't have trashed an Estate with Jack. That was like a reflex. Play Jack, gain Silver, draw a card, trash an Estate. Just dull if you need the Estate as Rebuild fodder. ;)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 02:57:33 pm by Psyduck »
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #76 on: March 05, 2014, 02:56:54 pm »
0

I agree with you about people dismissing Rebuild, except I think my engine was pretty fast. On turn 10 I was generating $15 with 3 buys and overdrawing my deck. If I had played a little better at that point (no second Jack, probably Scavenger or something instead) I probably would have had 5 Provinces by turn 12, but also the flexibility to dive for Duchies when I did instead.

...and Psyduck, I think getting more villages to begin with was more important than when they were trashed, but the fact that you trashed them makes my chances in the long game much better. I never said it was a bad play, just an aggressive one that I probably wouldn't have had the cojones to make.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #77 on: March 05, 2014, 02:57:46 pm »
0

In this first game, I do think you erred big time in trying to shorten the game. You were always going to win long, but there was a chance you could have an off turn and lose by quickly draining piles. So I do think that was a mistake... after he trashed his Mining Villages, he basically had no long game chances, so if I were you I would have taken Duchy/Vagrant on that turn where you emptied the Wells instead.

I've heard some criticism about my trashing Mining Villages too early. I really don't think I trashed my Villages prematurely. The first one was in turn 14, and the sole purpose was to deny Adam the sixth, as I only had $2 without trashing. Then I sacrificed one in turn 18 to get my second Goons. The other two were trashed in my last turn. But I agree that Duchy/Vagrant would've been the safer call for him.

The third game is the biggest question mark in my mind, because I did not leave it convinced that Rebuild should actually lose there! It was not Engine vs. Rebuild, it was Engine vs Double Jack/Rebuild. Psyduck's hybrid strategy was always going to lose. But is Rebuild + Scavenger going to lose to your engine? I don't think so. I mean, while it's definitely a good engine, it still sort of lacks something to do. If Scavenger were Bridge or Monument or Merchant Guild, then yes, engine 100%. But as is, I don't know.

So do you think, Rebuild is stronger without a Jack for support? Jack gives you some money, which can make the difference, and countered Margrave nicely. I assume that the second one was too much, though, but I haven't had time to analyse that game deeper.
What I can say by now is that I shouldn't have trashed an Estate with Jack. That was like a reflex. Play Jack, gain Silver, draw a card, trash an Estate. Just dull if you need the Estate as Rebuild fodder. ;)

Yeah, well that's why I don't like Jack with Rebuild that much. You don't want to trash your Estates, so what's it doing for you? It's gaining you Silver (which is okay but not like he best thing ever, you'll see your Rebuilds less often). It's giving you terminal drawn, but what if you draw Rebuild that way?

Scavenger is like it's own thing with Rebuild, so I would have opened Scavenger/Silver to go for that.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2014, 03:02:05 pm »
0

I agree with you about people dismissing Rebuild, except I think my engine was pretty fast. On turn 10 I was generating $15 with 3 buys and overdrawing my deck. If I had played a little better at that point (no second Jack, probably Scavenger or something instead) I probably would have had 5 Provinces by turn 12, but also the flexibility to dive for Duchies when I did instead.

I think you executed on your approach much closer to perfectly than your opponent did, let me put it that way. And it was still close.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2014, 03:16:33 pm »
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This is something that I feel like I have a really good handle on with respect to Jack.

I'm pretty sure that most people think that you don't want Jack unless you're benefitting from all aspects of what it does. Jack does four things: Gain silver, sifting, Draw-to-5, trash. I think if you're only going to use like two of those things, then it's still good. Particularly when Gain Silver is one of them, the opportunity cost is very low even if Draw-to-5 really only equals "terminal-draw one card that has a slightly higher chance of being good than normal, but your deck has a lot of Silvers in it." Yeah this is really good for Big Money, but I feel like it's so good for so many other things that people just dismiss:

Example

Jack in my engine provided a source of economy so I had more flexibility over my deck size early without having to worry about money. It provided a little more reliability because starting with a Jack in hand instead of a Margrave can often be just fine to kick off. But even if Jack just gains me a Silver after I've drawn most of my deck, "it's still Jack and it's still good."

Rebuild+Jack has to be really good in spite of the pessimistic way you've presented it. Particularly against constant Margrave attacks (which is why I thought a second Jack might have been justified in Psyduck's deck) it allows you to have a much better chance of hitting $5 which has to be good. Maybe this is totally off-base, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Jack+Rebuild was just as good as, if not better than, Scavenger+Rebuild in that particular game against the engine, though the best thing is probably some combination of the two.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2014, 03:19:20 pm »
+1

Ah! We are in total disagreement then  ;D
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2014, 03:21:02 pm »
0

Ah! We are in total disagreement then  ;D

Oh God, I just disagreed with one of the top Dominion players in the world!

*goes back to corner with tail between legs*

 ;D
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2014, 03:26:14 pm »
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Ah! We are in total disagreement then  ;D

Oh God, I just disagreed with one of the top Dominion players in the world!

*goes back to corner with tail between legs*

 ;D

A week or two ago I would have said, "Yes! that's right! Weep, you dog! Your tears sustain me! Mwahaha!" But I have been losing a lot lately and now I feel sad and meek.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2014, 03:45:55 pm »
+2

I think Robz is pretty much wrong all around about the Rebuild game. The engine is extremely strong, as Jack let's you recover your economy almost immediately after trashing with Chapel. The FV/Jack synergy is strong, and then you get your draw/attack/buy in one nice card (Margrave), what more could you possibly want? The engine doesn't even need to double Province, realistically it just needs to do Province + Duchy a couple times. AdamH is already producing $11 with buys on Turn 7, that's pretty darn fast.

The game isn't even very close. It looks like only a 4 point win, but Psyduck's deck has capped out its scoring capability at the end of  the game. There is no chance after Adam's turn 14 that Psyduck can buy two Provinces without Adam scoring any more points, which is what needed to happen. Just to emphasize, Psyduck needed to buy the Provinces because Rebuilding Duchies could not net enough points.

I would play the engine here, but I would get at least one Jack if I was trying the Rebuild strategy because FV/Jack is awesome, the defense against Margrave is good, the estate trashing (at least 1-2) is still good (it's faster to buy $5s, not Rebuild all your estates), and the economy boost is useful to buy Rebuild. You can't really complain that Psyduck didn't get Scavenger soon enough, he bought one turn 3! I would have liked to seen Psyduck buy another FV instead of Silver on Turn 4. Maybe second Scavenger over second Jack. But really Rebuild just looks slower than the engine.
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2014, 04:36:19 pm »
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Okay, growing a little more confident that I am wrong...
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2014, 07:47:31 am »
+4

Okay, growing a little more confident that I am wrong...

Yes! that's right! Weep, you dog! Your tears sustain me! Mwahaha!
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2014, 03:22:19 pm »
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DG 3-0 Matste

Game 1 : http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140306/log.517265f6e4b054fd071e3c90.1394134580611.txt.
In my book any game that looks vaguely like a highway kingdom is a highway kingdom.
Game 2 : http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140306/log.517265f6e4b054fd071e3c90.1394135511159.txt.
I stuck to a simpler deck without smugglers, less squires, to bring in more reliable spending.
Game 3:  http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140306/log.517265f6e4b054fd071e3c90.1394136616546.txt.
A monument-treasure type game where I buy inns twice and don't put them one top of the deck, once deliberately and once in error.
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SquisherX

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #87 on: March 06, 2014, 05:13:17 pm »
+1

Match with Zaubererer

Game 1: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140306/log.516ff6dfe4b082c74d7e58db.1394141643173.txt
Alchemist race. I start to green a bit too early and he takes it when my economy slows.

Game 2: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140306/log.516ff6dfe4b082c74d7e58db.1394142506614.txt
He allows me to pick up most of the highways, winning handily

Game 3: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140306/log.516ff6dfe4b082c74d7e58db.1394143061821.txt
Embargos land on some key actions, it becomes a straight up money war

Game 4: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140306/log.516ff6dfe4b082c74d7e58db.1394143638725.txt
Counting house > montebank
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lespeutere

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2014, 06:23:09 pm »
+3

lespeutere vs GeoLib 3-0



Code: [Select]
Cellar, Fishing Village, Cutpurse, Navigator, Remake, Embassy, Hunting Party, Junk Dealer, Market, Nobles
1-0
Fishing Village/Remake into Hunting Party, Market and Nobles. His Remake misses the shuffle and with my FPA and another unlucky turn in his endgame, I drive it home: 39-23.



Code: [Select]
Swindler, Armory, Band of Misfits, Bazaar, Inn, Venture, Witch, Bank, Forge, King's Court
2-0
He opens witch/nothing, plays witch on t4 which is then hit by one of my double swindlers. I get rather nice luck, hitting 7$ for KC and forge much sooner than he does. He swindles my forge into bank, i get a province first, before going back to getting a forge and keeping the lead. In his final turn, GeoLib can still win, if he swindles a duchy away from me and buys the last province. Instead he hits province: 26-22.



Code: [Select]
University, Great Hall, Woodcutter, Workshop, Gardens, Spy, Young Witch, Council Room, Upgrade, Fairgrounds, Expand
3-0
5/2 for GeoLib again, he opens Uprade into a Uni/CR engine. I go for Workshop/Gardens, get 8 WS before greening and try to stick to the sim optimum. Despite 4 upgrades, he is not able to trash down fast enough, leaving us wondering whether CR/BM might've been the superior choice or whether Fairgrounds/Expand detours cost him a better result than 4 VP Gardens: 41-32. Any comment on this greatly appreciated.

It was a fun match, apart from the usual goko issues. Good luck to GeoLib for upcoming matches!
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GeoLib

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2014, 07:28:18 pm »
+1

I think you're probably over-crediting your luck here lespeutere.

Game 1: I think I could've still won in my last turn if I hadn't played my FV before my HP. If I'd taken the time to play carefully, I might've been able to pull out a double province + remake into nobles turn, which I think would've gotten me the win. My thought process was: "I think I don't want to draw another FV here." Play FV. Play HP "Hey, why did I draw another FV? Right. That is not how HP works."

Game 2: I severely underestimated swindler. I didn't think it would be very powerful with a real curser in the kingdom, but boy was that wrong. At least one of my first silvers should have been a swindler. I don't know what else I did wrong here, but it felt like I just kept hitting $4 over and over and buying silver. The last play I realized the risk of swindling province for province, but figured that my only hope was, as Lespeutere said, swindling duchy buying province (or swindling 2x estate for the tie).

Game 3: I saw him going for workshop/gardens and realized that this would make CR great because the extra card would hardly help him at all. I didn't contest WS so as not to speed up the rush (that was the right play, right?). I think I perhaps should've contested gardens more given the good tfb opportunities. Was university the right play here. It was the only village and I thought the engine would be better with upgrade trashing. It felt way too slow though. I had some idea that I would be able to get fairgrounds to 6, but I think they were just a distraction. Was it worth it to get expand here?

Good games lespeutere and well played.

Side note: "usual goko issues" included 8 attempted games in a row with lespeutere as first player before game 3 each of which had about a minute-long loading screen for me and one of which I just got stuck on the loading screen and had to restart...
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2014, 07:52:36 pm »
+4

Your biggest problem in Game 3, Geolib, is that you don't get your deck cycling fast enough. You shouldn't need more than 1 Silver in the early game, since your deck really wants to use University to gain cards for Upgrading, it doesn't particularly want to buy them . Your Turn 7 Silver buy should be a Spy. And I wouldn't be afraid to turn 1-2 Estates into Great Halls (I think it will speed you up more than it will speed up the 3 pile). The other thing you should consider is trashing Coppers before Estates. It actually removes a card from your deck and lets you play the Universities/Upgrades faster.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #92 on: March 07, 2014, 07:50:09 am »
+3

Your biggest problem in Game 3, Geolib, is that you don't get your deck cycling fast enough. You shouldn't need more than 1 Silver in the early game, since your deck really wants to use University to gain cards for Upgrading, it doesn't particularly want to buy them . Your Turn 7 Silver buy should be a Spy. And I wouldn't be afraid to turn 1-2 Estates into Great Halls (I think it will speed you up more than it will speed up the 3 pile). The other thing you should consider is trashing Coppers before Estates. It actually removes a card from your deck and lets you play the Universities/Upgrades faster.

+1 is too subtle, so I'll just state it here: this is so true.
It's the key to making decks like this work.

You also green too early, but greening later is only worth it if you make the deck go round & round.
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GeoLib

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #93 on: March 07, 2014, 10:49:46 am »
0

Your biggest problem in Game 3, Geolib, is that you don't get your deck cycling fast enough. You shouldn't need more than 1 Silver in the early game, since your deck really wants to use University to gain cards for Upgrading, it doesn't particularly want to buy them . Your Turn 7 Silver buy should be a Spy. And I wouldn't be afraid to turn 1-2 Estates into Great Halls (I think it will speed you up more than it will speed up the 3 pile). The other thing you should consider is trashing Coppers before Estates. It actually removes a card from your deck and lets you play the Universities/Upgrades faster.

+1 is too subtle, so I'll just state it here: this is so true.
It's the key to making decks like this work.

You also green too early, but greening later is only worth it if you make the deck go round & round.

I think I got scared of the 3-pile and tried to cash in. Then that failed miserably because I actually wanted the game to end before he got too many cards (which happened on the penultimate turn, I think).
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gilds55

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #94 on: March 07, 2014, 03:01:54 pm »
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either one is fine, great job. It was definitely smart on your part in going after the cutlists. Like I said this is my first year in this tournament and I wasn`t looking to do too well. Also the time constraint and fast plays may have been a key part in my loss. And I havn`t been able to "train" that much because of school work. But overall your deck choices were great and probably chosen with a certain strategy in mind. I hope to be more of a worthy opponent next year=)
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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2014, 04:37:38 pm »
+2

yed vs Max_D (MJD)

Game 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140309/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1394393102293.txt


Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Pawn, Sage, Coppersmith, JackOfAllTrades, Butcher, Treasury, Border Village, Farmland, HoardNice interactions between Butcher, Border Village and Hoard. I was lucky here, though I think these interactions are better then double Jack.

Game 2
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140309/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1394394189107.txt


Code: [Select]
Secret Chamber, University, Ambassador, Doctor, Bridge, Caravan, Highway, Laboratory, Merchant Ship, King's CourtWe both open Ambassador-Potion. I'm not sure if that is correct (other choice is Amb-Caravan or double Amb), but my reasoning behind it is that University gaining Laboratory gives you the necessary draw for Ambassador (What does f.ds think about that?). Max_D was unlucky here with his Ambassador being 11th card in 2nd shuffle. I decided to prefer gaining Labs with University over Highway (as Max_D) did. Max_D was first able to get 2 KC. But he had too big a deck so I won huge with almost megaturn (6 provinces). But I'm not sure If I played optimally here. Still lucky win because of that missed Ambassador.

Game 3
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140309/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1394395238866.txt


Code: [Select]
Fool's Gold, Squire, Urchin, Monument, Navigator, Trader, Highway, Junk Dealer, Pillage, AltarI opened Urchin-Urchin going for Mercenary. I missed collision all lot of times, some of them because his Pillage (nice, I have never thought about Pillage as defense against Mercenary). I was going for some Fools Golds but when he was playing Big-Money-Monument-Pillage I decided to build crazy engine with Highway an Squire...

yed - Max_D 3-0

Max_D: Thank you for the match and good luck in the future rounds.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 04:39:22 pm by yed »
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2014, 06:43:41 pm »
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We both open Ambassador-Potion. I'm not sure if that is correct (other choice is Amb-Caravan or double Amb), but my reasoning behind it is that University gaining Laboratory gives you the necessary draw for Ambassador (What does f.ds think about that?). Max_D was unlucky here with his Ambassador being 11th card in 2nd shuffle. I decided to prefer gaining Labs with University over Highway (as Max_D) did. Max_D was first able to get 2 KC. But he had too big a deck so I won huge with almost megaturn (6 provinces). But I'm not sure If I played optimally here. Still lucky win because of that missed Ambassador.

I would open Ambassador/Potion. (Second choice would be amb/caravan, I don't like double amb at all here. You really need to get to $4 to get to $2P)
You were lucky that he missed, but he also could (should) have used his turn 4 $3 on a second ambassador. Now that he already has the potion and a university, no point in adding money.
The collision here would be unfortunate again, but it would only prevent him from buying another semi dead card (doctor)

I agree with getting (at least some) labs over highways. But following the same line of thought - why get bridge over caravan (your t6) ?
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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2014, 07:55:55 pm »
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But following the same line of thought - why get bridge over caravan (your t6) ?
Yes, that was mistake, too early for that. I wanted two price reduction cards for Uni->KC, this was one of them. It later backfired to me when I couldn't have played Uni after Bridge because I had only one action.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #99 on: March 10, 2014, 12:07:09 am »
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...
I just saw this.  Thank you as well MJB for the match!  Well played on your part.  Not my best day :P  I fortunately came home just in time to remember i had a dominion match.  Anyways, it was a lot of fun, I'm sorry about that farmland mishap...  See you around!
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