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Author Topic: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card  (Read 36788 times)

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matste

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2014, 12:56:49 pm »
+3

Workshop is [...] strictly worse than Ironworks.

Edge case? You need to gain an Estate but are at the bottom of a shuffle you can't afford to trigger.
another edge case : you only have 3$ to spend.(no highways,Bridges,Princess or Quarry played :p)
then workshop is strictly better because you can afford it.
Another edge case(related to the topic): your opponent is playing a lot of Swindlers and Scout is in the kingdom.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2014, 01:49:33 pm »
0

On an engine board with no other filterer than Scout, why would i not want to buy one?

I don't think anyone answered this question.  You wouldn't want to buy Scout because you are much better served buying another actual engine piece, like a village or Smithy or or even a Woodcutter.
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timchen

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #77 on: February 19, 2014, 03:33:36 pm »
0

I think we can agree that designing cards is just very, very hard.

There are also many different tastes.

Some players might like bland helper cards which are useful on 90% on boards, while others might feel cheated that those cards provide nothing special.
And some players might like cards which are useless often, but shine on 10% of the boards.

I think I'm somewhere in between. It's fun to find uses for "useless" cards and it's fun to have some go-to cards.

Speaking of designing cards, actually there seems to be a good way to improve scout by enlarging its variance:

EDIT: +1 action added...

Super Scout
$4 Action

+1 Action
Reveal the top card on your deck. If it is a VP card, put it into your hand, then +3 cards.


Looks like a fine card to me!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 04:33:45 pm by timchen »
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KingZog3

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #78 on: February 19, 2014, 03:34:46 pm »
0

I think we can agree that designing cards is just very, very hard.

There are also many different tastes.

Some players might like bland helper cards which are useful on 90% on boards, while others might feel cheated that those cards provide nothing special.
And some players might like cards which are useless often, but shine on 10% of the boards.

I think I'm somewhere in between. It's fun to find uses for "useless" cards and it's fun to have some go-to cards.

Speaking of designing cards, actually there seems to be a good way to improve scout by enlarging its variance:

Super Scout
$4 Action

Reveal the top card on your deck. If it is a VP card, put it into your hand, then +3 cards.


Looks like a fine card to me!

Totally better than Smithy.
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Robz888

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2014, 03:35:12 pm »
0

I think we can agree that designing cards is just very, very hard.

There are also many different tastes.

Some players might like bland helper cards which are useful on 90% on boards, while others might feel cheated that those cards provide nothing special.
And some players might like cards which are useless often, but shine on 10% of the boards.

I think I'm somewhere in between. It's fun to find uses for "useless" cards and it's fun to have some go-to cards.

Speaking of designing cards, actually there seems to be a good way to improve scout by enlarging its variance:

Super Scout
$4 Action

Reveal the top card on your deck. If it is a VP card, put it into your hand, then +3 cards.


Looks like a fine card to me!

Except it's strictly worse than Smithy.

Hint: You didn't give it a +1 Action
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eHalcyon

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #80 on: February 19, 2014, 03:48:28 pm »
0

I think we can agree that designing cards is just very, very hard.

There are also many different tastes.

Some players might like bland helper cards which are useful on 90% on boards, while others might feel cheated that those cards provide nothing special.
And some players might like cards which are useless often, but shine on 10% of the boards.

I think I'm somewhere in between. It's fun to find uses for "useless" cards and it's fun to have some go-to cards.

Speaking of designing cards, actually there seems to be a good way to improve scout by enlarging its variance:

Super Scout
$4 Action

Reveal the top card on your deck. If it is a VP card, put it into your hand, then +3 cards.


Looks like a fine card to me!

Except it's strictly worse than Smithy.

Hint: You didn't give it a +1 Action

It's not strictly worse.  You also get the VP card in hand, so the net result is +4 cards.  Moreover, Super Scout would draw 3 average cards while Smithy only draws 2, if you count that Victory card that was on top.  Super Scout is thus much better than Smithy if you reveal green.

However, it's usually worse than Smithy because it is so unreliable and will whiff more often than not.
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Holger

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #81 on: February 19, 2014, 04:00:53 pm »
0

I think we can agree that designing cards is just very, very hard.

There are also many different tastes.

Some players might like bland helper cards which are useful on 90% on boards, while others might feel cheated that those cards provide nothing special.
And some players might like cards which are useless often, but shine on 10% of the boards.

I think I'm somewhere in between. It's fun to find uses for "useless" cards and it's fun to have some go-to cards.

Speaking of designing cards, actually there seems to be a good way to improve scout by enlarging its variance:

Super Scout
$4 Action

Reveal the top card on your deck. If it is a VP card, put it into your hand, then +3 cards.


Looks like a fine card to me!

I'm not sure it's even better than the actual Scout. Unless you have 50% green cards in your deck (or played deck sifters before), this is worse than Moat on average; I don't think the larger variance helps it that much (you can never draw more than three non-green cards with it). And it has little in common with the printed Scout...
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 04:03:56 pm by Holger »
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Bridge builder

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2014, 04:07:39 pm »
+1

I actually won a game with scout today.

Not kidding or trolling. i bought workshop and started making great halls. after i had all 10 of them i bought some scouts, and managed to build a engine that won big money. ( scout was the only draw card.)

probably still not the optimal strategy but worked suprisingly well. and i wasn't playing against a really good player so that might have been why.
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Holger

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2014, 04:09:59 pm »
0

Transmute is fine. People just need to play games with more than one Alchemy card at a time.

Scout would also be more viable if you always required at least 3-5 Intrigue cards in a kingdom containing Scout. Or require at least one hybrid VP card ...
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SirPeebles

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2014, 04:11:48 pm »
+1

Transmute is fine. People just need to play games with more than one Alchemy card at a time.

Scout would also be more viable if you always required at least 3-5 Intrigue cards in a kingdom containing Scout. Or require at least one hybrid VP card ...

Perhaps.  But there's a difference between "more viable" and "fine".
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Holger

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2014, 04:22:51 pm »
0

Transmute is fine. People just need to play games with more than one Alchemy card at a time.

Scout would also be more viable if you always required at least 3-5 Intrigue cards in a kingdom containing Scout. Or require at least one hybrid VP card ...

Perhaps.  But there's a difference between "more viable" and "fine".

Of course. I don't actually consider Transmute "fine" even in Alchemy-heavy sets, though - I usually only buy it when I have a potion and can't afford another potion-cost card, which is not so common...
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timchen

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2014, 04:36:26 pm »
0

I think we can agree that designing cards is just very, very hard.

There are also many different tastes.

Some players might like bland helper cards which are useful on 90% on boards, while others might feel cheated that those cards provide nothing special.
And some players might like cards which are useless often, but shine on 10% of the boards.

I think I'm somewhere in between. It's fun to find uses for "useless" cards and it's fun to have some go-to cards.

Speaking of designing cards, actually there seems to be a good way to improve scout by enlarging its variance:

Super Scout
$4 Action

Reveal the top card on your deck. If it is a VP card, put it into your hand, then +3 cards.


Looks like a fine card to me!

Except it's strictly worse than Smithy.

Hint: You didn't give it a +1 Action
Fixed.

I did mean to have +1 action there in the first place as the original scout. I don't think the card is overpowered. It's just awesome when you have ways to make sure you have a VP card on the top your deck.

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DStu

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2014, 05:16:09 pm »
+1

Im a bitt drunbk, but that now looks like a doubleLabWithABonusFor4 to me
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Awaclus

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #88 on: February 19, 2014, 05:19:14 pm »
+1

Im a bitt drunbk, but that now looks like a doubleLabWithABonusFor4 to me
You don't get the +3 cards unless the top card is a Victory card.
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Kirian

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2014, 08:14:42 pm »
+4

Im a bitt drunbk

So it would appear.
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jonts26

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #90 on: February 19, 2014, 08:50:24 pm »
+3

Im a bitt drunbk

So it would appear.

But he did spell doubleLabWithABonusFor4 correctly.
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Awaclus

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #91 on: February 19, 2014, 08:52:28 pm »
+3

Im a bitt drunbk

So it would appear.

But he did spell doubleLabWithABonusFor4 correctly.
He also did spell Im a bitt drunbk correctly.
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silverspawn

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2014, 04:38:49 am »
0

can i just say that the poll is stupid? i voted no, because i think transfusion is worse than scout. but that's not what the TE said, i still think scout is the second worst card in the game.

RTT

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2014, 05:34:39 am »
0

can i just say that the poll is stupid? i voted no, because i think transfusion is worse than scout. but that's not what the TE said, i still think scout is the second worst card in the game.
yep the Poll is pretty senseless. I voted yes because Curse is worse than scout...

Btw. you mean Transmute? right? not Transfusion!

Also having a Negative Statement in the question and then a yes no answer is pretty confusing.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 05:36:01 am by RTT »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2014, 07:07:37 am »
+5

Im a bitt drunbk

So it would appear.

But he did spell doubleLabWithABonusFor4 correctly.

Probably autocorrect.
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Nik

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2014, 07:19:46 am »
0

Im a bitt drunbk

So it would appear.

But he did spell doubleLabWithABonusFor4 correctly.

Probably autocorrect.
If it was autocorrect, it would have corrected drunbk... ???
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markusin

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2014, 07:27:03 am »
+2

Im a bitt drunbk

So it would appear.

But he did spell doubleLabWithABonusFor4 correctly.

Probably autocorrect.
If it was autocorrect, it would have corrected drunbk... ???

He also did spell Im a bitt drunbk correctly.
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markusin

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2014, 07:30:42 am »
0

can i just say that the poll is stupid? i voted no, because i think transfusion is worse than scout. but that's not what the TE said, i still think scout is the second worst card in the game.
yep the Poll is pretty senseless. I voted yes because Curse is worse than scout...

Btw. you mean Transmute? right? not Transfusion!

Also having a Negative Statement in the question and then a yes no answer is pretty confusing.
Thinking about it more, the "not" in the question isn't really a proper negation.

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sitnaltax

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2014, 09:21:08 am »
0

I tried to come up with a promo that would specifically work well with Scout. It wants to cost $3 so you can open X/Scout and people don't just spend all game wishing they had access to Cartographer instead. Something like:

Prospector
Action - $3

You may discard any number of Victory cards from your hand. For each one you discard, +$1.
Reveal the top four cards of your deck. If none of them are Victory cards, gain two Silvers. Discard the cards revealed.

Trouble with this is that it's fantastic if you manage to collide your Scout and Prospector, and terrible if you don't, like opening TR/Swindler. Maybe something that lets you trash it for a card that costs $4 so you can gain Scouts with it when you need them without having to find the +Buy in some later turn?

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RTT

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Re: Scout Strategy Article, or, It's Not a Bad Card
« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2014, 09:56:59 am »
0

I tried to come up with a promo that would specifically work well with Scout. It wants to cost $3 so you can open X/Scout and people don't just spend all game wishing they had access to Cartographer instead. Something like:

Prospector
Action - $3

You may discard any number of Victory cards from your hand. For each one you discard, +$1.
Reveal the top four cards of your deck. If none of them are Victory cards, gain two Silvers. Discard the cards revealed.

Trouble with this is that it's fantastic if you manage to collide your Scout and Prospector, and terrible if you don't, like opening TR/Swindler. Maybe something that lets you trash it for a card that costs $4 so you can gain Scouts with it when you need them without having to find the +Buy in some later turn?
make it a VP card beeing worth 1 and it comboes even better with scout
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