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Kirian

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GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« on: February 16, 2014, 10:09:21 pm »
+2

Please post your logs here, along with commentary and the like!
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 10:57:34 pm »
+1

Well, since we're expected to post logs here too, here are the logs to my games against LCS213. I didn't get around to recording them due to time restraints.

Game 1: markusin:69 - LCS213:40 -> markusin wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1392690212247.txt

At the beginning here, I was torn between going for the typical Governor route and going for the Vineyard/Silk Road route. I opened Market in case I'd see an opportunity to dive in to Vineyards, but that never happened. My opponent and I both ended up counting of Governor Draw + Discard attacks to come out ahead. I'm thinking a second Spice Merchant could have come in handy, but discard attacks hurt it anyway.

Game 2: LCS213:16 - markusin:22 -> markusin wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1392691542858.txt

Here, I was looking to get lots of Apothecaries to build up to some multi-Bridge deck. I figured having Plaza discarding Coppers for Apothecaries to pick up again could be a nice synergy. Somehow, my deck got too bloated anyway. My opponent was able to open with Trading Post, but Silver is only so good in a Colony game with a lack of handsize increasers. I feel like we both got bogged down by the lack of draw. I was fortunate enough to be able to sneak in a 3-pile ending here.

Game 3: LCS213:20 - markusin:11 -> LCS213 wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1392692385686.txt

My plan here was to open Armory/Silver and judge whether or not I could topdeck a potion to get Familiar. If I felt I could, I would use Armory to gain a Potion. Otherwise, I'd use it to gain Feast or Silver to get Cultists. I was all set up to do the latter, but instead bought two Band of Misfits thinking I could play them as Familiar. Turns out you can't, based on the rules mentioned in Alchemy. I could find an opportunity to smoothly gain a Familiar after getting my first 3 Cultists. I also feel like I got too many Shanty Towns. I ended up losing the lead, at which point my opponent's Apprentice was easily able to seal the game.

Game 4: markusin:57 - LCS213:49 -> markusin wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1392693063412.txt

Interesting game with Dukes. I wanted to build up a bit of an economy by remaking Estate->Silver and getting Jesters to help me gain good stuff before diving into the Duchies/Dukes. I also loaded up on Caravans with the hope of remaking them into Duchies/Dukes. I stayed away from Horn of Plenty because I expected to have little variety in my play area once I started greening. I hit $8 lots of times, but stubbornly put my faith in the Duchy/Duke strategy. My opponent denied me the last Duke, unaware that it would result in a 3-pile ending. I'm not sure how things would have ended if that didn't happen.

All good matches overall.
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SCSN

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 11:37:56 pm »
+3

Game 2: LCS213:16 - markusin:22 -> markusin wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1392691542858.txt

Here, I was looking to get lots of Apothecaries to build up to some multi-Bridge deck. I figured having Plaza discarding Coppers for Apothecaries to pick up again could be a nice synergy. Somehow, my deck got too bloated anyway. My opponent was able to open with Trading Post, but Silver is only so good in a Colony game with a lack of handsize increasers. I feel like we both got bogged down by the lack of draw. I was fortunate enough to be able to sneak in a 3-pile ending here.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1392697987698.txt
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2014, 08:22:15 am »
+1

Game 2: LCS213:16 - markusin:22 -> markusin wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1392691542858.txt

Here, I was looking to get lots of Apothecaries to build up to some multi-Bridge deck. I figured having Plaza discarding Coppers for Apothecaries to pick up again could be a nice synergy. Somehow, my deck got too bloated anyway. My opponent was able to open with Trading Post, but Silver is only so good in a Colony game with a lack of handsize increasers. I feel like we both got bogged down by the lack of draw. I was fortunate enough to be able to sneak in a 3-pile ending here.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1392697987698.txt
Wow, you pulled it off!

Three interesting things about your play:
- You actually get the Cellar. I was worried it's hand size reduction would work against me, but now I see that discarding the Copper drawn from Apothecary can be quite helpful, especially when you know what's on top of your deck.
- You buy extra Copper. What has now become apparent to me is that the extra Copper becomes a source of handsize increasing with Apothecary. Cool.
- You open Trade Route. I know Estate trashing is great for Apothecary. I just didn't expect it to be worth it that early.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 04:32:06 pm »
+1

Game 2: LCS213:16 - markusin:22 -> markusin wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1392691542858.txt

Here, I was looking to get lots of Apothecaries to build up to some multi-Bridge deck. I figured having Plaza discarding Coppers for Apothecaries to pick up again could be a nice synergy. Somehow, my deck got too bloated anyway. My opponent was able to open with Trading Post, but Silver is only so good in a Colony game with a lack of handsize increasers. I feel like we both got bogged down by the lack of draw. I was fortunate enough to be able to sneak in a 3-pile ending here.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140217/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1392697987698.txt
Wow, you pulled it off!

Three interesting things about your play:
- You actually get the Cellar. I was worried it's hand size reduction would work against me, but now I see that discarding the Copper drawn from Apothecary can be quite helpful, especially when you know what's on top of your deck.
- You buy extra Copper. What has now become apparent to me is that the extra Copper becomes a source of handsize increasing with Apothecary. Cool.
- You open Trade Route. I know Estate trashing is great for Apothecary. I just didn't expect it to be worth it that early.
Thing is, silver is so bad for this deck... it's either trade route, cellar, or copper. And I don't think you want copper THAT soon....
I'm interested to know whether you want armory on your opening 4 or not though - it isn't clear to me...

TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 05:52:07 pm »
+7

<Edit>Corrected the links</Edit>

Round 1 against Rabid. I've been upping my level a bit the last few days and can only be glad about the level of play I have showed.

But man, oh man, these games were weird.

Game 1 : "Oh, you poor thing"

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1392755686996.txt



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Native Village, Pawn, Ambassador, Doctor, Market Square, Envoy, Gardens, Library, Nobles
Well there's a lot going on here. Library shines, since Pawn, NV and Nobles work well together with it. The second one is Ambassador/Poor House. Given this, I decide to open Ambassador/Ambassador, keeping my deck thin but not too thin to not be able to buy anything. Rabid goes Silver/Ambassador. I think this is inferior. He tries to get a Gardens strategy over with me throwing over all the junk but it just doesn't work. I build up on the Poor Houses (and stealing away the Nobles before anything) and it takes a while but the greens start coming quickly in the end, together with +buy with Pawn (better than Market Square here). Rabid is left hampering.

Game 2 : "I need stuff!!!"

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1392756655251.txt



Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Native Village, Pawn, Ambassador, Urchin, Bishop, Remodel, Silk Road, Ill-Gotten Gains, Border Village
Again Ambassador, NV and Pawn. My plan is to go Urchin/Ambassador. But where do I get the extra stuff from to trash with the Mercenary ? Oh, I have +buy with Pawn! Wrong, the right way to in this plan is Urchin/Ambassador + BV/IGG, getting extra coppers in the deck. I think?

Rabid sees it coming and buys enough Lighthouses to counter (Ambassador/Lighthouse) and starts getting the IGGs way sooner. I'm lacking strength, since the Lighthouses block the discards effectively and I have waaaaaaaaaay too much junk in my deck. That'll show me.

Game 3 : "Actions galore"

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1392757510885.txt



Code: [Select]
Vineyard, Stonemason, Fishing Village, Moneylender, Salvager, Talisman, Horn of Plenty, Saboteur, Upgrade, Border Village
Of course this is a Vineyard deck with Stonemason, BV and Talisman on the board. Key cards besided that are Upgrade/Saboteur - or so I thought.

Rabid opens Talisman/FV, I open FV/Moneylender. I was looking at Talisman but I thought Stonemason would be sufficient enough too. And in the end, you're stuck with that pesky pseudo-copper. However, it has enough merits here. I get a quick BV/Upgrade, so I thought I was set here (Upgrade the Upgrade into BV/Upgrade and in the end BV/Saboteur to get his actions out of the deck). Also, no +buy means only one Vineyard at a time ...
I thought this should have been enough to clean it out, but I believe I myself should have cleaned out my deck more in the beginning. I struggle in the midgame with my remaining coppers. He keeps on picking up enough Vineyards and my Saboteurs never go off well.

Any thoughts or comments on this are appreciated!

Game 4 : "Empty the black market!"

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1392758532507.txt



Code: [Select]
Black Market, Develop, Forager, Alchemist, Baron, Militia, Plaza, Remake, Festival, Merchant Guild
Well this counts for a lot. Let's see : no draw except Alchemist. Forager/Remake on the board so Baron probably out of the question. Some nice +buys but hey, how do you get your deck racing ?

Rabid chooses rapid trashing (Silver/Remake), I go for Alchemist first with Potion/BM (let's get lucky). Rabid only goes for potion with a neat deck, but that signals me to get a quick Militia in. I start dragging out some nice cards out of the BM deck and have the upper hand on the Alchemists. It makes my deck race nicely. Rabid is stuck with a nice deck, but I think given the lack of drawing power, this doesn't work in the end and the Militia starts hurting him quite a few times. With a Mountebank (BM) and followers (Tournament out of BM), he starts getting curses and this makes it impossible for him to finish with a lead.

As a side note, I like/hate Remake. It's a nice rapid trashing card, but in the end you're stuck with that stupid thing that just won't get out of your deck. I often find myself overtrashing and just spending too much turns cleaning up that I don't time to buy other decent stuff ...

Game 5 : "Wake me up before you Go-Go (Governor - Goons)"

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1392759225049.txt



Code: [Select]
Moat, Vagrant, Island, Pirate Ship, Governor, Journeyman, Rebuild, Altar, Goons, Hunting Grounds
You've got Rebuild but with Shelters, so that's a no. Other than that Governor (drawing) - Goons is clear.
I'm a bit screwed with the opening : Silver/Island, because Rabid can trash his Hovel, I can't.
But it seems to go off okay - I get the first Governor. But then Rabid gets the first Goons too. I buy a Moat with the $2 inbetween.

It stays a mirror (hey, I'm a MirrorMan !) but then he surprises me : Rebuild?! Ah damn, I put aside my Overgrown Estate. Right.

At one point we seem to still be going equal but I make a mistake by buying the 6th province too soon and letting him finish. Clean win, I played it wrong in the end.

Game 6 : "Let's buy the worst card !"

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1392760575919.txt



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Hamlet, Moat, Shanty Town, Workshop, Thief, Throne Room, Ghost Ship, Saboteur, Expand
What?! This game looks as if it had been plucked from the base set. "Dominion for Dummies". No buy, no extra money. No nothing.
So errr ... What to do ? Well, similar to Pirate Ship : no extra money from actions means ... Thief?!
I'm even more flabbergasted by Rabid's opening : Throne Room/Workshop ?! What is he planning???
I open Silver/Shanty Town and get the Ghost Ship first and then the second, so it should be a clean run right ? And then pick out all the money with the thief ?

Well Rabid's plan is clear : Shanty Town/Hamlet the hell out of me against my Ghost Ships. One Shanty town doesn't work against GS, more do.

Well we both struggle hard and long to get anything going. He decides to do pseudo buy with Expand and trashes two of his three Ghost Ships in the midgame. Really surprised again. I thief a bit, but not too much because of the moats he stacks in his deck.

I thought this was going swell but I am stalling in the end. I thought it could become a tie but the clever Expands work nicely for him. Well played Rabid and congratulations.

Again, if anybody has any decent ideas on this deck, always open for suggestions.

I'm really happy with my play against Rabid, I have learnt some nice subtleties in the deck building. On to the next!

TheMirrorMan.




« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 07:21:35 pm by TheMirrorMan »
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Rabid

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2014, 07:08:36 pm »
+4

Thanks for the write up and the fun match TheMirrorMan.
5 out of 6 game won by the 2nd player!

Looks like some of the game logs are a bit muddled up!

Game 1.
I still like Amb / Silver here but I needed to add a 2nd Amb on turn 3 or 4.
Gardens wasn't really the plan just a last roll of the dice after I lost the ambassador war.
You played this one much better than I did.

Game 2.
Really tricky board this, I think the VP from Bishop was the key.

Game 3.
Another hard board, I think the key was to try and win the Vineyard split.
As such I thought Talisman was better than the trashing and better $5 odds given by Moneylender, but I'm not at all sure.

Game 4.
I got outplayed on this one.
My deck lacked focus, remake into Alchemist was far too slow.

Game 5.
First player advantage was huge here. As was my Island / Hovel opening.
You handed me the game at the end, but i think I was in control, as if we both refuse to buy Prov I have the extra Goons for more points.

Game 6.
I think you played this one better than me as well.
Expanding the GhostShips should have cost me the game, then I got lucky draws at the end to steal it back.
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2014, 07:26:50 pm »
0

I corrected the links Rabid. And I agree with all your analyses. Game 5 probably was lost with the Double Goons. But maybe - so I thought - enough remodelling into green cards may do the trick. But in hindsight ... No. :)
Thanks for the nice words!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 08:27:30 pm by TheMirrorMan »
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tenuki

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2014, 05:43:03 am »
+1

Hello everyone. Here are the logs to my games against Alan Malloy. I've made some comments but I'm rather beginning at this exercise. Would be happy if someone also comments it.

Game 1 : Ragoudvo wins by resignation http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1392788085658.txt

I think the key point is that game was to choice Horse Traders instead of Taxman during the first turns : Taxman was way less effective with HT+moats. Then with my 2 early Altars building an engine was not complicated. The only thing was not to do something stupid with the Horns of Plenty.

Game 2 : Alan Malloy wins 18 to -2 (!) : http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1392788634914.txt

Well. Obviously you have to start sea-haging, then hope for a world when you can buy a lot of Cultists. I've been crushed on that one although the start was pretty even. I don't know what was wrong, but probably I shouldn't have bought those Mining Villages. If I should play this game again, I would have bought a 2nd Sea Hag instead of my first MV.

Game 3 : Ragoudvo wins 37 to 25 : http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1392789236639.txt

Early Ghost Ship + Remake instead of Bishop do the job...

Game 4 : Ragoudvo wins 30 to 21 : http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1392790035325.txt

I would have bought a 2nd Junk Dealer instead of a Bazaar at turn 3 for my opponent. I think 2 junk dealers were the good number to build a quick engine, without extra buys.
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shark_bait

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2014, 09:40:22 am »
+4

Game 4 : Ragoudvo wins 30 to 21 : http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1392790035325.txt

I would have bought a 2nd Junk Dealer instead of a Bazaar at turn 3 for my opponent. I think 2 junk dealers were the good number to build a quick engine, without extra buys.

There's so much you can do on that board!  Go ahead and try some solitaire games on it.  This really is a great board to practice your engine building skills.  Take a minute to look through the kingdom.  Ask yourself how you will set up your engine?  What kind of trashing is available?  How can you use the trash for benefit to your greatest advantage?

Try the kingdom without looking directly at the spoiler tags.



Code: [Select]
Develop, Herald, Moneylender, Rats, Worker's Village, Bazaar, Junk Dealer, Mandarin, Rabble, Tactician
You have good trashing in the form of Moneylender, Develop, Rats and Junk Dealer.  A particularly good combo is in Rats and Develop.  Play Rats to gain a free $4-cost fodder card for Develop which can gain you free $3 and $5 cost cards.  You also have Villages in the form of Bazaar, Worker's Village and Herald.  Also of note is how you can guarantee hitting with Herald by Developing Rats in say Silver and Rabble ensuring that Rabble is the 2nd card on your deck.  You can also Develop into what you need.  Lacking draw in your current hand but have a Bazaar?  Develop that Rats into a Silver/Rabble with Rabble on top.  There's really a lot in this set and it is hard to play optimally.

Here's a sample game wherein I empty the Province pile in the same number of turns that it took both you and your opponent to do it.  I'm sure there are ways that I could have played it better.  One thing to note that I think is important is the early Tactician.  It really helps line up your cards early to propel your engine along.  You can then Develop it into Gold/Worker's Village later for cash and the buy.  I think that doing that is the greatest thing that you can do in this set.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1392820442305.txt
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 09:55:47 am by shark_bait »
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 11:13:53 am »
+1

I hope you don't mind, but I took your suggestion and played 2 solitaire games on this board.

Without looking at the spoiler tags, here's what I came up with.


My first attempt started out with a simple "gather the $5 costs" and support them with Herald and Worker's Village. The Moneylender/Silver opening did that for me, and I added Junk Dealer to quicken my trashing efforts. I figured I can make a strong enough deck that I wouldn't even need Tactician (which is a bit dangerous to have with Herald anyway). The Moneylender eventually became a dead card, even when the Heralds hit them.  I struggled to get to the magical $16 to spend. It only became apparent to me later on that there is a nice synergy with Develop/Herald. The first card top-decked with Develop can be revealed by Herald. It's a shame that Developing a $4 cost card gives you either a Develop or a Silver for $3. Otherwise, Rats would have been amazing.

I was disappointed that I only got 4 Provinces in 14 turns. I knew I could do better.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1392824289944.txt

The second game was a bit different, since I was able to open Junk Dealer/nothing. I used what I learned about Herald/Develop to trash $5's into Gold while top-decking a nice $4 that can even be revealed by Herald.  Finally, The double Province turns came early.

4 Provinces in 13 turns, and 1 more Province after each of the next 3 turns after that.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.5080bad60cf2ab2c11d065ce.1392824736406.txt


Now watch me get blown away as I read shark_bait's spoiler tags.

And of course he does a bit better than me using Tactician, a card I honestly have trouble using effectively. He also opts to ignore both Junk Dealer and Moneylender for Rats. By constantly trashing Rats with Develop, he builds a strong deck with plenty of Rabbles that can handle extra Silver, using early tactician to kickstart the process.

Nice!
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EgorK

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 12:51:21 pm »
+1

Egor Kulikov - Jean-Michel 3:1

Egor Kulikov - Jean-Michel 32:40 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1392829637767.txt)
Jean-Michel - Egor Kulikov 27:30 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1392830030611.txt)

Rebuild games (first one with colonies)

Jean-Michel - Egor Kulikov 0:48 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1392830590414.txt)

With bridge, ironmonger, steward and king court it was destined to end with this score

Egor Kulikov - Jean-Michel 28:24 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1392831176396.txt)

Familiar vs cultist
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hdu88

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2014, 10:16:16 pm »
+2

hdu88 (Tao Chen): 3
Mic Qsenoch: 1

Game 0: Cancelled due to technical difficulties
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1392859267200.txt

Alas, the most interesting game didn't finish. I had built a 35 point lead (soon to be 41 points), and Mic was just about to start an epic comeback with Bishop and constant Minion attacks. I had a lone Horse Traders and a few Schemes to try to steal the last two Provinces with. For some reason the window I was playing on completely froze, as in I couldn't click anything, even though my other tabs were working fine.  We decided to scrap that game.

Game 1: hdu88 wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1392860487920.txt

I spent a while deciding whether to go for a Vineyard strategy or play double Tactician with Secret Chamber. I ended up going for the double Tac under the erroneous assumption that each Stables play would give me +$2. Nope, it's actually +$1 because I lose two cards and gain three cards. Mandarin gives +$1 for the same reason (lose two cards, gain $3), but it has two advantages over Stables: 1) I can topdeck a card for next turn. I topdecked Secret Chamber when I started buying Provinces, but switched to Coppers after I nearly ended up with a treasureless Stables hand. 2) Stables eventually runs out of cards to draw, and then it becomes -$1. Mandarin gives extra cards to draw.

Anyway, my incorrect assumption gives me the win.

Game 2: hdu88 wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1392860970409.txt

I've actually done a fair bit of testing with the DoubleJack opening on a Baker board (don't ask; I was curious). If the two Jacks collide like they did in this game, I'm at a small disadvantage compared to a Silver-Jack opening (but I still got lucky and won). If they don't collide, not only do I probably trash two early Estates, but I actually have a nearly guaranteed path to prevent them from colliding in the next shuffle, and it ends up being an enormous advantage (on a Jack board, "enormous advantage" translates to being roughly one turn faster). 50-50 slight disadvantage vs enormous advantage; I'm taking the gamble.

Game 3: Mic wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1392861566523.txt

By the time I noticed the synergy between Scavenger and Phil Stone, it was too late. I probably bought too many Golds when I should be buying Duchy and/or Scavenger. I decided to end the game because I had no chance.

Game 4: hdu88 wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1392862115693.txt

I pretty much had no idea what I was doing on this board, but somehow I timed everything correctly despite some minor terminal collision. I bought Pillage at exactly the right time so that I could use Spoils on my last shuffle, and I gained 4 Curses from my opponent's Witch but never saw them.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 11:03:06 pm »
+1

Game 0 freezing was sad, I was probably going to lose but it would have been a cool comeback if it worked. The Alchemist stack didn't come together very quickly for me, despite getting an early Upgrade. I make a few Scheme misclicks because of the damn interface.

Game 1 - I am outplayed, no doubt about it. I might need a Tactician, or just more cantrips instead of Squires, and also more Potions. I am not getting Vineyards at a fast enough pace here.

Game 2 - I honestly didn't think about DoubleJack opening, probably the right call, I probably should have made a move on the second to last Province at some point when I had a coin token lead.

Game 3 - I have above average luck with my Scavengers and Pstones, I also don't really get swamped with Ruins despite his Cultist opening. Turn 19 is especially fortunate: I can play Necro, then Scavenger to topdeck Pstone and then play Worker's Village to draw it. Stef described something like this in a response to a game report the other day and I actually remembered his post during this turn, so thanks Stef!

Game 4 - I like what I do better here, though he definitely has a strong money deck. He hits exactly $8 for 4 of his 5 Province buys, if the money falls a little differently I can definitely pull this one out. It's close in any case.
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hdu88

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2014, 12:35:28 am »
0


Game 4 : "Empty the black market!"

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140218/log.50785f090cf28ed55d9d72bf.1392758532507.txt



Code: [Select]
Black Market, Develop, Forager, Alchemist, Baron, Militia, Plaza, Remake, Festival, Merchant Guild

Quick trashing not working? Try quicker trashing!

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140219/log.505d34a8fca2594308272c72.1392874313842.txt

Note: Against Militia, this strategy is significantly slower.
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TheMirrorMan

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2014, 07:28:07 am »
0

Forager/Remake?! That is so counter-intuitive. I'll need to take a look into it. Thx hdu88!
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Nevermind

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2014, 03:57:04 pm »
0

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GeoLib

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2014, 06:59:30 pm »
0

Geolib 3: UnmuddiedLake 1

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1392934936429.txt UnmuddiedLake Wins
Rebuild mirror. He opens Marauder/Silver and I go Silver/Silver. I pick up some schemes, we split duchies 4/4 and he gets extra estates. We each rebuild 3 provinces and T14 my rebuild collides with my one remaining duchy :-( He rebuilds his estates into silk roads. Then rebuilds a 4th province and trashes the last one for the win.
Was Marauder the right way to go here? I thought early 5s would be more important and rebuild basically shrugs off ruins (especially with some scheming). Also, is picking up estates really a good idea? I thought they would just waste a rebuild, but I guess the SR help there.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1392935755708.txt GeoLib Wins
We both go forager/bridge into tactician. In retrospect I think scavenger might have been better than bridge here. I misclick and trash my 2nd forager T9 instead of playing it. He breaks PPR (though he was already behind as well) when I have a tac turn next and I buy the last province for the win.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516d0cc6e4b082c74d7aa724.1392936548569.txt GeoLib Wins
Baker coin token. I go militia/forager and he goes baker/forager. Is baker worth spending the coin token for? I figured militia would be better here. Basically money with bakers and trashing from here. He gets an expand, which I don't think was worth it. I get a second militia which of course collides with the first like 4 times. I don't think that was a good idea. He misses that I still have an untrashed estate and buys the last province giving me the win.

Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1392937388717.txt GeoLib Wins
Border Village/Ghost Ship/Torturer/Smugglers craziness. We both ignore marauder and go smuggler/silver. I pick up a ghost ship before my first torturer which I think was the right choice. Some brutal attacking back and forth. He gets a potion T4 for a golem, which I think was a mistake. I get one T12, which was definitely a mistake. I never even buy golem. That one was pretty dumb. I pick up a duchy with my BV T13 for insurance. He doesn't see the 3-pile coming and I buy the last vagrant for a 4-2 victory.

Thank you UnmuddiedLake for some fun games!
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bearskinrug

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2014, 08:04:30 pm »
+1

bearskinrug edged out gamesou, 3.5 to 2.5

Game 1: gamesou wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1392934046342.txt
My initial plan was to focus primarily on Monument, Bandit Camp and Warehouse, but I got sidetracked almost immediately and bought a couple Bridges once my opponent started going that direction.  I wish I'd bought my second Monument far sooner than I did (turn 16!), probably before I bought my first Bridge.  Not really sure the result would have been any different since my strategy was a little disjointed.

Game 2: gamesou wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1392935140868.txt
On turn 13, I had no choice but to buy a Duchy and hope my opponent would not be able to double-Province on his next turn.  Once he did, I think with a good amount of luck, I may have been able to win with a final Province, double-Duchy last turn, but all I could manage was Province, Duchy for the loss.

Game 3: bearskinrug wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1392936094628.txt
Me getting the 5-2 opening was probably the critical moment in the game with Torturer and Native Village on the board.  Count's trashing was huge on both sides, but I definitely got the better of it.  On turns 11 and 13 when it was likely my opponent had his Count in hand given his acceptance of curses from Torturer, I'm not sure whether I should have played the third Torturer, but I think it was still probably the right move to play them all.

Game 4: tie
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1392936711659.txt
When I have more time, I'll have to study this log a little more closely since I'm pretty sure I misplayed this.  I also made the mistake of not checking the score before opening the game up to a three-pile ending, so I got exceptionally lucky to escape with a tie.  I started buying up the Gardens as a denial tactic, but I'm not sure I wouldn't have been better served buying a Province or two first.  Also, I Heralded into Mercenary a couple times when I'd rather not have....

Game 5: bearskinrug wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1392937459825.txt
Probably my strongest game of the bunch, or at least the one where I felt like I had the most cohesive strategy.  I went in expecting to go Hamlet-Menagie-Upgrade-Hoard, and that's pretty much what I stuck with.

Game 6: bearskinrug wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1392938806578.txt
I was first to get to the King's Courts and was lucky to have my Watchtower in hand when he had his big Torturer turn.  Watchtower turned out to be a key card for all of its uses.  I wanted to pick up a Storeroom for the +buy sooner in the game, but I didn't actually get there until turn 16.

Overall, very fun set of games and thanks to gamesou for playing with me.  The series easily could have gone the other way but for a handful of lucky breaks in my favor.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 08:23:50 pm by bearskinrug »
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Breezy D

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2014, 10:46:07 pm »
0

Breezy:3
Jaybeez:1

Game 1 Jaybeez wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1392948357166.txt

BM+Butcher with Harems. On T3 with 6 coins I chose to buy Harem. I think this should have been a butcher to trash out estates for silver and get coin tokens for future use. I kept up for a good part of the game but then Jaybeez's momentum took over.


Game 2 Breezy wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1392949899637.txt

We both went scrying pool then vineyards on this board. I tossed an early urchin in which let me trash coppers. I accidentally trashed my potion before I remembered I needed it for vineyards. And this threatened to put me dramatically behind as I bought 2 potions to make up. Slowly buying highways & then a couple of provinces let me pull ahead.

Part way though the game I wondered whether BM+Wharf would have been better.

Game 3 Breezy wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1392950449995.txt

BM+Masquerade with Stashes and no +2actions. I open 5/2 and choose hunting party over stash. Jaybeez opens silver/masquerade & in T4 buys Haggler. This gave him 2 terminals in his deck while hunting party let me see my 2 stashes more often.

I maintained the lead through the game but almost lost when I miscounted my coins and bought an estate (duchies were out) instead of the last province.

Game 4 Breezy wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516cd2c1e4b082c74d7a166a.1392951354737.txt

A tough game for  Jaybeez due to 2p in T5. He couldn't afford a familiar  & his potion missed the reshuffle. Throughout the early game scavenger, and then later golem, let me play familiar much more regularly. Looking at the log, I wonder whether Scavenger would have been a better T4 buy for Jaybeez than Minion. Though, had I been in his place, I likely would have also gone Minion over Scavenger assuming I'd get a familiar shortly.


Thanks Jaybeez for some good games and also for your patience in Game 4.
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hdu88

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2014, 11:33:27 pm »
0

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1392934936429.txt UnmuddiedLake Wins

Marauder is important because it lets you hit $5 in the crucial midgame turns, stops your opponent from hitting $5, and gives your opponent fewer Rebuild plays. Lake ended up getting 3 Rebuild to your 2 and still split the Duchies.

The extra Estates are important not to turn into Silk Road, but to end the game on Turn 14 with a 2-point lead, which Lake missed.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1392935755708.txt GeoLib Wins

Forager-Jack seems way better, either for Big Money or Double Tac (yes I think Double Tac is possible despite the lack of non-Jack card draw). I'm interested enough to solitaire this.

Edit:
Big Money http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.505d34a8fca2594308272c72.1392958797239.txt 5 Province in 14 turns seems alright
Double Tac http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.505d34a8fca2594308272c72.1392958418348.txt Probably inferior, but way more fun

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.516d0cc6e4b082c74d7aa724.1392936548569.txt GeoLib Wins

I feel like Militia is correct here. Lake just likes spending those coin tokens like they're on fire.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 12:07:07 am by hdu88 »
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hdu88

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2014, 12:46:12 am »
0


Part way though the game I wondered whether BM+Wharf would have been better.


Highway megaturn all the way! Necropolis + 2 Wharf + 2 duration Wharf gives you 5 buys.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.505d34a8fca2594308272c72.1392960884915.txt
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michaeljb

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2014, 03:25:17 am »
+5

michaeljb vs Julle

Had a lot of fun with this match.

Game 1: Three by three, hands of Green
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1392955947668.txt



Code: [Select]
Cellar, Crossroads, Moat, Workshop, Caravan, Spice Merchant, Worker's Village, Hunting Party, Library, Adventurer
I figure the key cards here will be Hunting Party, Crossroads, Spice Merchant or Worker's Village for +Buy, and Caravan's fine for $4 hands. I took a while deciding to open with Spice Merchant, thinking it's trashing would be unimportant in an HP game, but I ended up opening SM/Silver. Julle went SM/Workshop, looking to pick up more Caravans and Silvers along the way. I thought Workshop would get in the way of buying HPs as quickly as possible, but Julle drew well early and after turn 6 we each had 2 Hunting Parties. As the game went on, the Spice Merchants ate all our Coppers, I eventually grabbed my own Workshop and we took turns wading through green hands. I stubbornly refused to resign, always hoping my opponent would draw one more bad hand, but the extra Caravans and Gold were enough to finish me.

I'm still not sure about the right opening, and I'm even questioning Spice Merchant--Silver might be better if Hunting Parties are the focus, but maybe the trashing is important enough?


Game: 17 turns for P1, Julle 49 - michaeljb 35
Match: Julle 1 - michaeljb 0



Game 2: The Fool and the Madman
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1392956450499.txt



Code: [Select]
Fool's Gold, Pawn, Chancellor, Hermit, Woodcutter, Noble Brigand, Catacombs, Outpost, Tribute, Altar
Fool's Gold seems pretty strong to me here, with Hermit to clear out Estates and gain more FG. And, once I connect 2 Fool's Golds, I can buy a Catacombs that will let me draw past all of my Coppers (since Hermit will take care of my Estates) and I'll be in Province town in no time! The astute reader will note I apparently thought I was playing with Journeyman, not Catacombs. Since I first learned Dominion (about the time Alchemy came out), I've never had much trouble with mixing up different cards, but mistaking Catacombs for Journeyman (and never the other way around) has got me on multiple occasions, somehow. Anyway, it's still a filtering Smithy, so I figure I should still be solid anyway. Julle opened Hermit/Silver to my Hermit/Fool's Gold, and did end up picking 3 FGs so I wouldn't have them all. On the first reshuffle, I gained 3 more FGs, while Julle picked up an Altar and a Madman. Then followed that up with an Outpost, which really had me scratching my head; I was not struck by the engine potential here. Despite having only 3 FGs, Julle connected 2 of them for Province buys as quickly as I did, and managed to Brigand away a real Gold I had reacted with (a +$4 from a Tribute also helped out). My FG+Draw wasn't quite good enough, and in the end I broke PPR and paid the price. I'm still a little baffled at how quickly Julle's deck worked out.


Game: 13 turns each, michaeljb 24 - Julle 28
Match: Julle 2 - michaeljb 0



Game 3: It should have been Mint!
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1392956963849.txt



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Great Hall, Remodel, Cartographer, Catacombs, Graverobber, Mint, Rebuild, Tribute, Farmland
Shelters replace starting Estates

Ugh, Rebuild. Oh, yay! Shelters! We end up transitioning into Rebuild-centric play, but still more interesting than most Estate/Rebuild games in my experience. We both open Silver/Great Hall (trashing Hovel). From here, I want to get rid of my Overgrown Estate before transitioning to Rebuilds, and I luckily get a turn 4 Gold and get to play it turn 5, trading in my Overgrown Estate for a Farmland and a Silver. By turn 5, Julle has a Remodel, Cartographer, and Rebuild, and I feel like I have the lead thanks to my Treasure advantage. I grab a couple Rebuilds, and after turn 7 we each have 2 Rebuilds, and 3 Silvers; in addition to this, I have a Gold and Farmland to Julle's Cartographer, and Remodel (which had also turned his Necropolis into a second Great Hall). The next couple turns go as you might expect, each of us adding green to our decks, Rebuilding as we can. On my 15th turn, with all the Duchies gone, the only move is to buy Farmland. I casually press the 'Play Treasures' button, select the Farmland, then suddenly realize my fatal mistake: I played 3 Coppers and 2 Silvers when I could have played 2 of each to trash a Copper for an Estate. My next turn I can only afford a Great Hall, and on my opponent's following turn, a Great Hall is Rebuilt into a Farmland, a Duchy improved to the final Province, and a Silver in hand is all that's needed to buy an Estate to give Jlle the come-from-behind tie. I stave off elimination, barely.


Game: 16 turns each, michaeljb 36 - Julle 36
Match: Julle 2.5 - michaeljb 0.5



Game 4: Separation of Church and State
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1392957624598.txt



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Crossroads, Ambassador, Fortune Teller, Sage, Moneylender, Scavenger, Walled Village, Hunting Party, Pillage
No +Buy here, but it's got everything else you need for an engine and I just can't say no to Ambassador in a do-or-die situation like this. Scavenger should help kickstart everything, Hunting Parties and (later) Crossroads is plenty of draw, and the occasional Pillage might be fun. Julle believes in the power of the Church over the State, opening Scavenger/Chapel to my Scavenger/Ambassador. With an early $5, he picks up a Pillage, but I get lucky enough to have a Hunting Party and Scavenger in hand when he plays it, so I still get a fine turn out of it. After turn 7, my deck is smaller by 1 card, but Julle has 3 Estates to my 0, and no Hunting Parties to my 1. I pick up a few more Hunting Parties, and Julle gets into the Ambassador game a little late. I start on the Provinces on turn 12, feeling good with a small deck, a few Hunting Parties, and 1 Copper and 1 Estate to Julle's 5 Coppers. Julle's first Province comes turn 14, and I feel like I've got the game under control now. A couple turns later, he buys the third to last Province, and I generously gift him the penultimate Province as a thank-you for giving me his last Estate earlier, buying the last one to win by a nose.

I think Ambassador over Chapel for the opening was key here; Chapel slows down your economy more and HPs were crucial.


Game: 16 turns, Julle 24 - michaeljb 25
Match: Julle 2.5 - michaeljb 1.5



Game 5: Won't Get Fooled Again
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1392957992586.txt



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Crossroads, Fool's Gold, Baron, Horse Traders, Mining Village, Spice Merchant, Jester, Mint, Upgrade
I believe this was the right board for me to get the only 5/2 draw of the match on. I open Mint/Fool's Gold against Spice Merchant/Fool's Gold, picking up an early Crossroads and Baron (along with the obvious Fool's Golds). Julle goes for Horse Traders over Baron. Despite my advantageous start, we split the Fool's Golds evenly (I should have been more aggressive with them; probably would have been better off waiting for things like Crossroads and Baron until they were gone). We both start on the Provinces turn 8, and it's neck-and-neck the rest of the way until my 2 Crossroads line up and I can just buy the last Province.


Game: 15 turns, Julle 34 - michaeljb 36
Match: Julle 2.5 - michaeljb 2.5



Game 6: Finishing the Climb?
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1392958696902.txt



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Squire, Fishing Village, Watchtower, Tournament, Butcher, Contraband, Highway, Bank, Peddler
Platinum and Colony in the Supply

It seems fitting that final game would be the Colony game, but Tournament's there to keep Provinces relevant. There are a few different things that excite me on this board: Squire can help buy lots of Peddlers, Butcher for Peddler -> Province + bonus tokens, Squire/FV + Watchtower for draw, Highway. Knowing I want to do something with all of that, I open Tournament/Squire against Tournament/Fishing Village. Julle grabs an early Bank, which wasn't really something I expected. With Squire, I spend a few turns buying multiple engine pieces, but never quite get the big Peddler turn I want. Julle gets the first Province by Butchering a Gold, and I get mine a couple turns later. After 10 turns, we each have a Province and I have more engine pieces while Julle has a Platinum, Bank, and Contraband. We both add some more engine pieces but I don't think Julle ever got himself enough draw. On turn 14, I win the first Tourney, claiming a Trusty Steed, mainly for the purposes of keeping my current turn going. Ignoring Followers turns out to be awesome for me, as Julle gains them the following turn, but both times he plays them, my Watchtower is there to defend me. As the game goes on longer (thanks Colonies!) my engine comes together more and more and I pull away in the final turns, coming from a 2.5 - .5 match deficit to declare victory.


Game: 18 turns for P1, michaeljb 61 - Julle 44
Match: Julle 2.5 - michaeljb 3.5


I didn't notice until writing this up that none of the games ended on piles. Interesting.

Thanks to Julle for an awesome set of games and just being an awesome opponent! Thanks to TheMirrorMan for doing a cool write-up and inspring me to procrastinate on my homework to make this! (I probably won't do this again for this tournament, it took way too long. :P )
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 03:28:44 am by michaeljb »
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PitrPicko

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2014, 03:36:06 am »
+3

PitrPicko vs. matste - 3:0

matste - PitrPicko
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.517265f6e4b054fd071e3c90.1392925981900.txt


Code: [Select]
Vineyard, Scrying Pool, Masquerade, Death Cart, Horse Traders, Marauder, Plaza, Laboratory, Mine, PillageThis doesn't look very enginey, but with SP one can never be sure and it is always a nice counter to maureder. And with vineyard it can be a thing. But when I saw, that matste is opening Potion I decided to go simple BM-Masq. I don't want to feed him with ruins via maureder, he will draw them anyway with SP and I would just increse his action density, which is crucial on board w/ weak trashing. Also masq is nice since I can feed his deck with non-actions all the time. But I was still bit scared about vineyards. Those can bring lot of points, when ruins are up. However lack of cheap actions killed this one. Crucial thing for this SP deck is of course HT, because how can you flood your deck with actions w/o buy. You really have to at least buy vineyard and deathcart in the endgame. But my BM-Masq was doing the job. It was pretty easy way, passing, trashing, buying silvers, golds, provinces. And to ensure my lead, T11 I've played Masq which hit matste really hard, having in hand Plaza, Gold, SP, SP, HT.

So question for you, what would you pass?

PitrPicko - matste
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.517265f6e4b054fd071e3c90.1392926725082.txt


Code: [Select]
Poor House, Oracle, Wishing Well, Caravan, Marauder, Baker, Cache, Count, Counting House, Harem
OK, baker here, so we are in 5/3 waters. I think Count is pretty natural thing to open with as I have in mind some Baker chain. Question goes with $3. Silver or WW? Silver improves your economy where WW can increase your hand size for Count trashing. I went silver and matste tried WW. But his WW never colided with court and that was very unpleasent for him, while I was having almost perfect shuffle luck, trashing cards, getting bakers, all good. matste correctly tried to slow me down with Maureder but it was too late probably. I could trash those ruins if I wanted. But at that time I had so trimmed deck and so many coin tokens that it didn't bothered me much. Also I was waiting for ruined market just to finish this off and it really helped me as I was able to buy Prov/estate and break PPR. That gave me 10 points lead and matste even with perfect Count for duchy, buy prov can't catch me. And at that point I had still enough tokens to buy province in one of next two turns (one where I hit my silver or few bakers).

PitrPicko - matste
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.517265f6e4b054fd071e3c90.1392927312344.txt



Code: [Select]
Pawn, Shanty Town, Swindler, Bishop, Conspirator, Farming Village, Fortress, Procession, Remodel, Forge
Finally something!
Only question is whether bishop/fortress or forge/fortress or maybe golden deck. However you still need that bishop so I settled for bishop/fortress.
We both opened double terminal (with swindler just to mess up with our decks), but matste tried remodel, probably hoping that I'll give him enough trashing with my bishop and he can remodel few estates into bishops, fortresses, whatever and then maybe fortresses into golds(?). But I didn't colide my terminals, while matste did. And that was pretty unlucky for him. And he chose to play swindler (hitting my estate) but I'd definetly remodel one of those estates into something useful.
T12 I'm already fully trimmed and getting 9+VP/turn and there is no stopping me. It is just question of time when I finish 3-pile, so matste resigns.
Most interesting thing here is probably swindling fortress into procession, as we don't have any $5 actions so procession is really for nothing


Thank you matste for good games. It is always sad when BMs are dominant strategies, but that is part of a game. At least we had that bishop thing ;) And baker one had at least some hard decision about when to start greening but otherwise it was just wierd BM-Chapel :D. So thanks again and good luck in next rounds :)
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2014, 08:52:20 am »
+1

Quote
Thanks to TheMirrorMan for doing a cool write-up and inspring me to procrastinate on my homework to make this! (I probably won't do this again for this tournament, it took way too long. :P )

Good to see I have an impact, michaeljb - don't know if it is all that good an influence though :p
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2014, 09:06:25 am »
+5

Round 1 match: AdamH 3, Jdaki 1

Link to entire recorded stream (Twitch)
Video Playlist link (YouTube)


Game 1: Jdaki 4, AdamH 6
Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1392939255122.txt
Video link



Code: [Select]
Market Square, Urchin (Bane), Village, Island, Smithy, Young Witch, Count, Merchant Ship, Mountebank, Tactician, Fairgrounds
Cursing attacks abound here and there are lots of different ways to trash your cards, but there are also multiple options for an engine to be built. He goes for Mountebank and Count and transitions into a double-Tactician deck with Merchant Ship and Count for money. I go for Urchin/Mercenary and Young Witch, then into Village/Draw and Market Squares to get Golds, with Tactician for support. I felt like the discard attack was going to be more important especially with Urchin being the bane card; I feel like my early-game luck was pretty abyssmal but I eventually get some traction with my strategy and I find a way to end the game on a 3-pile.


Game 2: AdamH 27, Jdaki 17
Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1392940964236.txt
Video link



Code: [Select]
Haven, Masquerade, Steward, Bishop, Ironmonger, Wandering Minstrel, Merchant Ship, Torturer, Hoard, Expand
A decent engine to be built, once again with a lot of possibilities, but there's no +Buy. Only Expand and Hoard for extra gains. Masquerade sort of counters a Golden deck and also semi-counters the Village+Torturer available. This board was very interactive. He opted for stronger trashing earlier with Steward so I got running a little quicker, but it didn't matter all that much because we were both able to keep thin as the Curse pile ran out. We go for a similar payload (Hoard and Expand) and there are tons of interesting endgame decisions (which I apparently misplayed) but I'm able to run the clock out with a lead.


Game 3: AdamH 39, Jdaki 43
Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1392942083781.txt
Video link



Code: [Select]
Duchess, Hamlet, Mining Village, Salvager, Trader, Baker, Horn of Plenty, Mountebank, Border Village, Nobles
I never felt comfortable with this kingdom. Mountebank but also Trader as good defense. I try and walk the line between defense and offense and I don't do enough of either and I'm in a terrible position when the endgame rolls around. Jdaki played better all around and won this won easily (though the score doesn't reflect that).


Game 4: Jdaki 18, AdamH 45
Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1392943241074.txt
Video link



Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Develop, Village, Talisman, Thief, Worker's Village, Golem, Embassy, Laboratory, Market
Well maybe you can build an engine here, but I think Embassy+BM is too fast so that's what I go for. He gets the idea to build a deck that plays a million Theives per turn, and it succeeds in trashing my entire economy after I get 3 Provinces, but I just get a bunch of Lighthouses and scratch my way up to 50% VP for the win. Some scary moments here, and maybe his strategy would have worked if he played it a little differently, who knows?


So the last match of the last GokoDom was against Jdaki, and though we had two interesting games, the other two ended up being Jack+support. I'm glad every kingdom in this match was interesting and very interactive, I'm glad I got to play it with a high-level player like Jdaki, and I'm also really happy with the way streaming the match turned out. I'm really pumped about this tournament!
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2014, 09:07:46 am »
+3

So as many people know, I streamed my match live. It was my first time doing this and I thought I might be able to interact with the chat in between games. Turns out I didn't want to break my focus, so what I did was copy the relevant part of the chat log and now I'll offer my comments. I'd like to thank everybody who watched and especially those who offered some commentary, it was really great to see such high-level players commenting on my games and I got to see some people in the stream this time who I haven't seen before :D

Let me know if this is something that's interesting, I can continue to do this.


GAME 1

WanderingWinder: open urchin on 3, then YW if he doesn't get an urchin
It makes me so happy when WW says I should do something and that's what I ended up doing :D

Davqvist: Does YW even matter here?

WanderingWinder: Definitely YW is better than urchin turn 2 - Urchin just doesn't do basically anything for you; silver is better than village turn 3, you will need economy
» So on the turn you get 3 mercenaries (I'm going to assume there won't be a second such turn) - you can consider market square, though village is also worth a look; you know, though, that you can't have more than $1, because you'd actually had 6 coppers in your last hand, and that was all your economy
» the second time you have 5, I think I would be buying market square - you need the buys, the golds, etc. Three mercenaries are going to thin for you pretty well...
» I think the second tactician is just a mistake...
The second Tactician was a close call for me, I was still worried my deck was too big and he was starting to play Mountebanks more often which is why I got it, but I don't remember any time where the second one was particularly useful.

Sirdagen: Why so, WW? Cause he can't use his money then?

Lespeutere: he's able to draw his deck now even w/o tac

WanderingWinder: because the deck you want to build draws itself w/o tactician, and you want to be using gold; the only way double-tac works is off virtual coin which means like... a lot of merchant ships? Which doesn't set up well; this also works with the mercenary all the time plan
» and with the deck stacks up, he probably should be trashing the second tactician, since he's never playing it (turn 16 as I make this comment)

Sirdagen: Yeah, thanks. Now he doesnt want to play the tac.

WanderingWinder: Adam is still in good shape though, because he has MUCH more endgame control; I would probably be looking at more smithies if I were him, because he will need to be drawing a lot more
Yeah I totally should have been doing this instead of a second Tactician, there are just so many things I want at this point like Villages, Market Squares, etc. I should have thought of this.

» turn 17, I think you play tactician, buy estate

Lespeutere: maybe trash 2 golds, play tac, buy MS

Sirdagen: This is so interesting. I should go to bed (0:33), but...
How many times has this happened to me? Go to bed because it's way too late, or play MOAR Dominion? Guess which one I always chose?

Lespeutere: (t17)
» nah, play mercenary on YW/tac



GAME 2

Lespeutere: heya
» I didn't know they named a card after you, WW

WanderingWinder: You make your own "the-right-player-goes-first" luck
» ^^he is referring to Wandering Minstrel

Sirdagen: Haha

Lespeutere: obviously

WanderingWinder: Golden deck is weak to Masquerade
I've made that mistake before
» I think you actually just make a masquerade-based engine here, with hoard and money
» masquerade is PLENTY trashing
Sometimes it can be difficult for me to turn down Steward, but this time it was easy for me. I always hesitate to have a super-thin deck with Masq around, and I always hesitate to not open Masquerade with Masq around.

Sirdagen: Oh, torture him, then masquerade.
There were several interesting situations where playing Torturer/Masquerade in the right order was a non-trivial decision, I don't think I got all of them correct.

Lespeutere: he'll take curses as well
» yeah, mistake not to play haven

WanderingWinder: expanding torturer into province is a big mistake - you need your draw, really
» Though you're basically winning anyway
I did this because I was really worried about what his deck could do and I wanted a mad rush for green (I think this was right after he bought his Expand). Looking back I shouldn't have been so worried, but that's why I did this.

WanderingWinder: T15 You're really mis-playing this endgame - 4 provinces isn't that great if he can likely double province AND have bishop points; milling a province is good though


GAME 3

WanderingWinder: I don't think the HoP mega-turn will happen very easily through mountebank - Trader as a defense doesn't really help, you still get stop cards. I think I would actually go trader-trader, maybe move into salvager later, definitely look to use Border Village with T4B at some point, and then adjust to what they're doing; Probably get 2ish mountebanks before switching to baker, lots of treasure, go from there
» Turn 4 - I definitely would get a second mountebank; why do you not get a second mountebank? He hasn't gotten trader, you want to pound him; I definitely get Mounte
Outlining the first of many misplays this game. I looked at this kingdom and I was pretty sure I would lose, this was a tough board for me.


GAME 4

WanderingWinder: I'm pretty sure I'd go Embassy/BM; Lab-based engines without trashing, no great payload, are SO slow
Once again, very nice to see that I made the same decision as WW :D

Sirdagen: He did it
This is likely a response to some chat message that Twitch dropped? Thanks, Twitch, you're the best.

WanderingWinder: If you engine, it would be with embassy in mind for the draw... or maybe actually, Develop/Talisman, turn 4-costs into village/lab or something? That can't be good
» "I can just... GET lighthouses over silvers from now on" - naw, Jimmy don't fear the Thief - keeping treasures is much better for your deck, just power through
» (also more cowbell)
lol

» And for what he is doing (t11 as I say this), he really needs more labs
Yeah I think more draw/trashing would have helped him quite a bit, it might have enabled him to make use of some of the treasures he was stealing from me, but maybe not.

» He's right to leave the treasures in the trash - they clog up the engine he wants to build
» Actually at this point his copper-trashing is not helping you so much...
» (t14-15)

Sirdagen: Even ignore lighthouses with 6 thiefs in play, WW?
» I would be scard too

WanderingWinder: there were 2 thieves when I said that, but you know, I really would be getting some villages if I were Adam now I think

Sirdagen: but now he has too many

WanderingWinder: Who has too many what?
» I think the opponent getting 6 thieves must be a mistake

Sirdagen: adam lighthousese?
» sure
Glad to see you didn't go to bed :P But yeah at this point my entire economy was coming from Lighthouses.

WanderingWinder: mm, if you're going for lighthouses, you almost just want to go whole-hog
» T22 - he didn't want WV because he's worried about piles; regular village would be good, but I think develop to turn thieves into useful things, get duchies
So yeah I think the turn he bought nothing with $4 was a misclick, then
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Qvist

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2014, 09:40:49 am »
+4



Game 1

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1392924654410.txt



Code: [Select]
Woodcutter, Feast, Ironworks, Island, Mining Village, Monument, Rats, Wandering Minstrel, Cartographer, Wharf
We both go for a Wharf engine. But I open Ironworks to gain the villages and Islands, while he opened Island (trashing Hovel) right away and gets the Ironworks later. He gets a good turn 4 Wharf and can shuffle it in while I get my first Wharf turn 5. We split the Wharves 5/5, but somehow he had his Wharves more regularly and earlier in play, so he started picking up Islands with his Ironworks (and eventually with a second Ironworks later) while I had one Monument over him. My engine was better but slower. I could double Province, but he still had 4 Islands and an Estate over me and the piles were running. Then he could only buy a Duchy with no Wharves in play. I had $10 and a Monument and an Ironworks in hand. I hoped that he can't draw a good amount of his deck and gained Island and bought Province/Duchy (I drew a Silver), but he was able to pile the Islands and WMs for the win.


Game 2

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1392927069692.txt



Code: [Select]
Oasis, Bishop, Mining Village, Nomad Camp, Mountebank, Rabble, Royal Seal, Vault, Fairgrounds, Goons

A sloggy Mountebank/Goons game. We had a similar deck, but he opted for triple Goons/single Mountebank while I got double Mountebank/single Goons. He had therefore more VP chips and went for Fairgrounds pretty early. But I was able to get 2 Platina and tried to get Colonies. I had a lot of $10 turns, but bought a single Colony. He had later a lucky turn and got a Colony too, so with piles running out, I was in a bad shape. But he stalled pretty hard, while I got more than $6 regularly. I thought I was in worse condition and didn't bought the last Fairgrounds and got a Province instead, but he ended it on Fairgrounds for a win. If I would have bought the Fairgrounds though, I would have won.


Game 3

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140220/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1392928759209.txt



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Forager, Farming Village, Treasure Map, Apprentice, Catacombs, Market, Merchant Ship, Nobles, Possession
We both build the engine here, but he trashes harder with double Forager while I only have a single Forager. I hit $6 more regularly, grabbing Nobles over Catacombs, winning the Nobles split 6/4, was is a big deal with Crossroads being around. Then was decision time if to go for Posession or not. I saw that it is strong here, but he had not much economy, so I tried to rush the Provinces. He had a worse deck and had to go for Possession. He trashed a Catacombs for a Potion and drew it right away and bought a Possession what was a pretty wise choice and strong move on his part. His first Possession was a bad hand and was able to buy my second Province and a Duchy for a solid lead, but bought a second Possession and later a third one. I could later buy Province/Duchy again, still for a solid lead. But unfortunately he could double-possess me and I only buy a Duchy and then he triple-possessed me for the win.

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2014, 12:05:27 pm »
+1

Harry Peteur beats ADK 3-0. Video is being uploaded to Youtube. Edit: Youtube apparently hates me, I livestreamed the match and Adam and JSH showed up to watch, hope you guys enjoyed it. I'll see if I can do anything with the recording.

Game One

Silk Roads/Islands. I lose the SR split and the game.

Game Two

Everyone loves Rebuild! I try to beat it with a half-baked Hermit engine and Familiar. It doesn't fly.

Game Three

We both skip Rebuild this time for a Wharf/Bishop/Rats engine. It's close for a bit but then he kills me with VP chips.

Well played Harry, thanks for the match, and good luck in the rest of the tournament!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 12:44:53 pm by A Drowned Kernel »
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SCSN

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2014, 12:33:47 pm »
+2

So as many people know, I streamed my match live. It was my first time doing this and I thought I might be able to interact with the chat in between games. Turns out I didn't want to break my focus, so what I did was copy the relevant part of the chat log and now I'll offer my comments. I'd like to thank everybody who watched and especially those who offered some commentary, it was really great to see such high-level players commenting on my games and I got to see some people in the stream this time who I haven't seen before :D

Let me know if this is something that's interesting, I can continue to do this.

Yeah, keep doing this. Too bad I closed the stream after that game with shark_bait as I thought you weren't going to play your match and was about to stop streaming.

I haven't yet watched the videos but looked at the first game log and commentary, which I strongly disagree with. There's a very strong double Tactician engine here with an insane amount of game state control so you definitely want to go for that. For double Tactician you want virtual coin, so don't buy any yellow card ever. The obvious open here is Urchin/Urchin/Urchin/Village. You want 2 Mercenaries as soon as possible and YW is a distraction that hurts in getting them. First trash down, then go for the Cursers. Mercenaries also should give you the economy to get to $5, so there's no need to bother with Silver. You want to discard Market Squares after playing Mercenary if and only if you need the Golds as fodder for future Merc plays (Count can help here too with its Copper gaining).

Here's a quick example game where SCSN I plays the strategy I advocate whereas SCSN II plays a simple Mountebank-BM: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1393003221689.txt
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 12:35:17 pm by SheCantSayNo »
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matste

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2014, 04:26:48 pm »
0

Thank you matste for good games. It is always sad when BMs are dominant strategies, but that is part of a game. At least we had that bishop thing ;) And baker one had at least some hard decision about when to start greening but otherwise it was just wierd BM-Chapel :D. So thanks again and good luck in next rounds :)
Thanks for the summary of our games. You sound like I was very unlucky. That's not true. In the first two games I made horrible mistakes and deserved to lose. However, in the third game, I feel like I made the better opening decision. My idea was to win the Bishop/Fortress split with extra gains and to benefit from the trashing of your Bishop. Your early Bishop VPs shouldn't matter in a Bishop+Fortress madness. But after seeing the horrible collision in turn 3, emotions took over and I lost the rest of rational thinking. Loosing the Remodel to your Swindler didn't help either.
Good games.
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Alexmf

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2014, 05:00:31 pm »
+1

Alexmf(SDAlexmf) - Liopoil 3-1


http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.516d4258e4b082c74d7b660a.1393014013812.txt
Forager-Minion vs. Remake-Minion, he wins the Minion split 6-4 and goes on to win the game.
0-1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.516d4258e4b082c74d7b660a.1393016820405.txt
Straightforward Minion game. I draw better and win.
1-1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.516d4258e4b082c74d7b660a.1393017494427.txt
Pretty interesting board. I like my approach of not going overboard on action cards here due to no +buy/trashing. Got lucky again too.
2-1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.516d4258e4b082c74d7b660a.1393018889936.txt
He wins the curse split by far, but then his swindlers hit terribly. He makes a mistake in getting throne rooms and that seals the deal.
3-1


Thank you for the games!
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2014, 08:18:02 pm »
+5

Game 1:



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Beggar, Fool's Gold, Squire, Oasis, Sage, Silk Road, Apprentice, Bazaar, Wharf
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.506333f0a2e62dfc41a45a88.1393027883529.txt

The first game was a mirror: Fool's Gold, Squire, Wharf
I think the key to the game was winning the Silk Road split. He got an early Wharf which had me concerned as I was unable to get my first Wharf until right before the 3rd shuffle.

Temron: 54
nnn: 46


Game 2:



Code: [Select]
Embargo, Pearl Diver, Swindler, Monument, Nomad Camp, Cache, Count, Embassy, Merchant Ship, Vault
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.506333f0a2e62dfc41a45a88.1393028341917.txt

Second game: no actions, big money Colony game with Embassy and Vault

We both started with 4/3. I opened with Monument/Silver and nnn opened with Swindler/Silver. I think this was the big difference in the game since in the first few shuffles I was able to get additional points with Monument and he was only able to give me one curse. On my first 5, I opted for Vault as I did not want to give him the early silver. After that I switched to Gold and Embassy.

Temon: 65
nnn: 48


Game 3:



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Herbalist, Secret Chamber, Stonemason, Tunnel, Pirate Ship, Thief, Tournament, Hunting Party, Vault
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.506333f0a2e62dfc41a45a88.1393028993137.txt

Third game: Tournaments, Hunting Party, Stone Mason

Again we both started with 4/3 and opened Tournament/Silver. Got lucky with 6 on turn 3 and picked up my first Gold. Then on turn 5 picked up first Hunting Party and on turn 6 was able to Stonemason into 2 more Hunting Parties. Picked up my first Province on turn 8 and was able to connect on turn 10 picking up Followers. At this point I had 4 Hunting Parties. By turn 12 I got a mega turn and was able to pick up Trusty Steed and Princess and from there the game was pretty much over.

Temron: 48
nnn: 22

edit: forgot to include 3rd game log
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 08:22:43 pm by Temron »
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Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2014, 12:14:50 am »
0

Titandrake 3-0 crablar. Not the most interesting boards.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.5143ebede4b0f496b6dd69dd.1393041989513.txt
Despite Sea Hag, Bishop + Colonies makes an engine much more appealing. Procession/Catacombs/Hamlet is the core, with Bishop for fun shenanigans and deck thinning.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.5143ebede4b0f496b6dd69dd.1393043345086.txt
Hey, so I heard you like Knight pins...overpaying for Stonemason by $2 so early was a big mistake on my part, I get my first KC way later because of it. However, I got the trash 2 knight, so I could trash my Estates much more easily. I start up a lot slower, but manage to get a Knight advantage, and KC + knights is completely brutal.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.5143ebede4b0f496b6dd69dd.1393044271057.txt
Tournament+Cultist, aka first player advantage the board. I actually end up losing the Ruins split 4-6, since Smugglers got an extra Cultist for crablar on turn 3, but I still get first prize. I bet the right move here is actually to gun for Princess, then attempt a long drawn-out engine with Fairgrounds as VP. The issue is that you can't skip Cultists early, and there's no way to trash Ruins, and passing up Followers feels suicidal, so it's not really an option for both players.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2014, 09:53:35 am »
0

So as many people know, I streamed my match live. It was my first time doing this and I thought I might be able to interact with the chat in between games. Turns out I didn't want to break my focus, so what I did was copy the relevant part of the chat log and now I'll offer my comments. I'd like to thank everybody who watched and especially those who offered some commentary, it was really great to see such high-level players commenting on my games and I got to see some people in the stream this time who I haven't seen before :D

Let me know if this is something that's interesting, I can continue to do this.

Yeah, keep doing this. Too bad I closed the stream after that game with shark_bait as I thought you weren't going to play your match and was about to stop streaming.

I haven't yet watched the videos but looked at the first game log and commentary, which I strongly disagree with. There's a very strong double Tactician engine here with an insane amount of game state control so you definitely want to go for that. For double Tactician you want virtual coin, so don't buy any yellow card ever. The obvious open here is Urchin/Urchin/Urchin/Village. You want 2 Mercenaries as soon as possible and YW is a distraction that hurts in getting them. First trash down, then go for the Cursers. Mercenaries also should give you the economy to get to $5, so there's no need to bother with Silver. You want to discard Market Squares after playing Mercenary if and only if you need the Golds as fodder for future Merc plays (Count can help here too with its Copper gaining).

Here's a quick example game where SCSN I plays the strategy I advocate whereas SCSN II plays a simple Mountebank-BM: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1393003221689.txt
Well, I'm entirely unsurprised that it stomps Mountebank BM - that's really a straw man here. This deck is going to be very highly reliant on villages - I guess the other is a bit too. Anyway, while it might be right that Double Tac is the way to go here, this log does nothing to show that - it crushes MB BM, but that's really not the comparison.

Also it's definitely worth noting that the YW advice is specifically predicated on the opponent NOT getting urchin.

In any case I suspect the biggest thing is going to be early Mercenary luck.

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2014, 10:22:10 am »
0

So as many people know, I streamed my match live. It was my first time doing this and I thought I might be able to interact with the chat in between games. Turns out I didn't want to break my focus, so what I did was copy the relevant part of the chat log and now I'll offer my comments. I'd like to thank everybody who watched and especially those who offered some commentary, it was really great to see such high-level players commenting on my games and I got to see some people in the stream this time who I haven't seen before :D

Let me know if this is something that's interesting, I can continue to do this.

Yeah, keep doing this. Too bad I closed the stream after that game with shark_bait as I thought you weren't going to play your match and was about to stop streaming.

I haven't yet watched the videos but looked at the first game log and commentary, which I strongly disagree with. There's a very strong double Tactician engine here with an insane amount of game state control so you definitely want to go for that. For double Tactician you want virtual coin, so don't buy any yellow card ever. The obvious open here is Urchin/Urchin/Urchin/Village. You want 2 Mercenaries as soon as possible and YW is a distraction that hurts in getting them. First trash down, then go for the Cursers. Mercenaries also should give you the economy to get to $5, so there's no need to bother with Silver. You want to discard Market Squares after playing Mercenary if and only if you need the Golds as fodder for future Merc plays (Count can help here too with its Copper gaining).

Here's a quick example game where SCSN I plays the strategy I advocate whereas SCSN II plays a simple Mountebank-BM: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1393003221689.txt
Well, I'm entirely unsurprised that it stomps Mountebank BM - that's really a straw man here. This deck is going to be very highly reliant on villages - I guess the other is a bit too. Anyway, while it might be right that Double Tac is the way to go here, this log does nothing to show that - it crushes MB BM, but that's really not the comparison.

Also it's definitely worth noting that the YW advice is specifically predicated on the opponent NOT getting urchin.

In any case I suspect the biggest thing is going to be early Mercenary luck.

It's not a strawman because the log was meant to illustrate the strategy rather than to prove its superiority. I chose to play against a Mountebank-BM instead of solitaire because receiving Curses would make the building process far more realistic, and I did not pick a better strategy than Mountebank-BM both to keep things simple for myself and to not muddle the log too much, which would reduce its educative value.

I do think that YW is a mistake regardless of your opponent going Urchin or not as it delays you getting 2 Mercenaries, which you really need to get your deck going, and the early Curses aren't really important, you want to get to a deck that plays 2 Mountebanks each turn as fast as possible, everything else is a distraction.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2014, 10:33:00 am »
0

So as many people know, I streamed my match live. It was my first time doing this and I thought I might be able to interact with the chat in between games. Turns out I didn't want to break my focus, so what I did was copy the relevant part of the chat log and now I'll offer my comments. I'd like to thank everybody who watched and especially those who offered some commentary, it was really great to see such high-level players commenting on my games and I got to see some people in the stream this time who I haven't seen before :D

Let me know if this is something that's interesting, I can continue to do this.

Yeah, keep doing this. Too bad I closed the stream after that game with shark_bait as I thought you weren't going to play your match and was about to stop streaming.

I haven't yet watched the videos but looked at the first game log and commentary, which I strongly disagree with. There's a very strong double Tactician engine here with an insane amount of game state control so you definitely want to go for that. For double Tactician you want virtual coin, so don't buy any yellow card ever. The obvious open here is Urchin/Urchin/Urchin/Village. You want 2 Mercenaries as soon as possible and YW is a distraction that hurts in getting them. First trash down, then go for the Cursers. Mercenaries also should give you the economy to get to $5, so there's no need to bother with Silver. You want to discard Market Squares after playing Mercenary if and only if you need the Golds as fodder for future Merc plays (Count can help here too with its Copper gaining).

Here's a quick example game where SCSN I plays the strategy I advocate whereas SCSN II plays a simple Mountebank-BM: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1393003221689.txt
Well, I'm entirely unsurprised that it stomps Mountebank BM - that's really a straw man here. This deck is going to be very highly reliant on villages - I guess the other is a bit too. Anyway, while it might be right that Double Tac is the way to go here, this log does nothing to show that - it crushes MB BM, but that's really not the comparison.

Also it's definitely worth noting that the YW advice is specifically predicated on the opponent NOT getting urchin.

In any case I suspect the biggest thing is going to be early Mercenary luck.

It's not a strawman because the log was meant to illustrate the strategy rather than to prove its superiority. I chose to play against a Mountebank-BM instead of solitaire because receiving Curses would make the building process far more realistic, and I did not pick a better strategy than Mountebank-BM both to keep things simple for myself and to not muddle the log too much, which would reduce its educative value.
But your point is to show that it is better than what was suggested, no? In which case, picking a very good match-up to show that it works isn't really doing much. I mean, Mountebank BM is a VERY good matchup. Of course the deck can work totally uncontested - I don't if anyone was questioning that. My point is that it's NOT a realistic situation for the deck.

Quote
I do think that YW is a mistake regardless of your opponent going Urchin or not as it delays you getting 2 Mercenaries, which you really need to get your deck going, and the early Curses aren't really important, you want to get to a deck that plays 2 Mountebanks each turn as fast as possible, everything else is a distraction.

I disagree - the only way that YW slows you down getting to 2 mercenaries is if you have YW and the top card of your deck is urchin, which can happen but is unlikely. And I really don't think the curses are unimportant against an opponent who isn't going for quick trashing (and if they're not getting urchin....)

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2014, 11:01:34 am »
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It's not a strawman because the log was meant to illustrate the strategy rather than to prove its superiority. I chose to play against a Mountebank-BM instead of solitaire because receiving Curses would make the building process far more realistic, and I did not pick a better strategy than Mountebank-BM both to keep things simple for myself and to not muddle the log too much, which would reduce its educative value.
But your point is to show that it is better than what was suggested, no?

No, my point was to illustrate for Adam (and for anyone else who might be interested) the strategy I think is best, not to prove that it actually is, which would be very hard to do in practice and would only interest me if I happened to be unsure about it myself.

Quote
I disagree - the only way that YW slows you down getting to 2 mercenaries is if you have YW and the top card of your deck is urchin, which can happen but is unlikely. And I really don't think the curses are unimportant against an opponent who isn't going for quick trashing (and if they're not getting urchin....

That's certainly not the only way: if you have 2 Urchins in your remaining deck you can draw one of them with YW, thus preventing an otherwise likely collision, and with a hand of YW/Merc/X/X/X you can't get a second Merc and the YW is a dead card, whereas with Urchin/Merc/X/X/X you can both draw a card and get the 2nd Merc. The YW can also draw your Mercs dead, which would be an absolute disaster, the risk of which should be enough to not play it, in which case you'd have much rather have the YW be an Urchin in the first place, as I indeed think it should be.

And the junking is important, that's why you want to quickly build the deck that hands out 4 junk cards/turn, relative to which the 1 Curse/shuffle from YW is irrelevant.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 11:07:26 am by SheCantSayNo »
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2014, 11:46:33 am »
+4

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1393034980051.txt



Code: [Select]
Secret Chamber, Wishing Well, Philosopher's Stone, Baron, Ironworks, Embassy, Soothsayer, Witch, Goons, Peddler
I get first player and the 5/2 split, which is just a massive advantage in what is going to be a Cursing and Goons slog. I take Witch over Sootsayer to start with (though I want Soothsayer later)--I think that's the right call, faster early cycling and all. I do decide to pair it with Secret Chamber. In the long hall of the slog, I think it's probably better than not having it, though I could be wrong.

My opponent goes for Phil Stone fairly early, which I think might actually be a pretty smart call here, so I follow him by Ironworksing for a Potion at an opportune moment. Unfortunately, he doesn't really contest me on Curses, so that kills him. He's not as far off as I would have expected, so maybe I misplayed somewhere. Still, I take the win.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1393035509330.txt



Code: [Select]
Cellar, Philosopher's Stone, Ironworks, Pirate Ship, Worker's Village, Minion, Royal Seal, Saboteur, Altar, Bank
My opponent opens Saboteur. You know, I actually think Saboteur is kind of underrated. It's a weird opening because it gives you no economy, but I mean it does have the theoretical power to really stop me dead on certain boards. Well, not this one, though. Ironworks is really a hard, hard counter to that plan here, so I immediately start diving into those heavier than I otherwise would have. I grab a very helpful early Altar and I am basically golden, just grabbing loads of stuff and cycling it in quickly with Minions and Cellars. He's actually hitting my Workers Villages into Cellars, which arguably helps me here. And then he worsens his problem by grabbing Pirate Ship. Light Treasure trashing? Just what I needed to take my deck to the next level! I three pile him remarkably fast.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1393036413751.txt



Code: [Select]
Doctor, Masquerade, Workshop, Feast, Moneylender, Noble Brigand, Remake, Taxman, Young Witch, Minion, Goons
We both open Remake/Masquerade. I just want to be very trashed down get Minions. I actually forget that Goons is hanging out on the second page until he buys one, but getting an early minion advantage is arguably more important anyway. No Villages so this is always just going to be single Goons. What my opponent does wrong is take the Goons points from buying Coppers (and Estates) way, way too early. It really messes with his minion density and takes him out of Province range too quickly. I cruise to an easy win.

A special thanks to my opponent for accommodating my need to reschedule our match three times. This is his first visit to the Forums, and I am hoping we may have found a new mafia player! :)
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RTT

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2014, 05:05:37 pm »
+3

Hi I know recording is out now and streaming is in ;) but i nevertheless recorded my match with azadin

Game 1



Game 2



and Game 3 (still upload in progress)




enjoy watching (comments appreciated)


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Psyduck

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2014, 06:42:26 pm »
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Hi I know recording is out now and streaming is in ;) but i nevertheless recorded my match with azadin

[...]

enjoy watching (comments appreciated)

Just watched your games, you played each of them quite well. In game 1 you could have gotten some more VP in some turns with ambassadoring coppers and then buying them back with (multiple) Goons in play. Apart from that I liked the Lighthouse approach, maybe I just would have gained one Stables less in favor of probably Market.

In game 2 Ambassador/Spice Merchant was just a strong opening, your opponent had much trouble getting rid of the junk (also misplayed turn 4). I'm little bit disappointed to see that you did without KC. ;) Would've loved to see what you could do with Diadem and KC/Nobles/Treasury/Tournament/Trusty Steed. A megaturn was certainly possible (Princess), but I understand your opponent just resigned.

In game 3 the early Merchant Guild was key, and I think getting the second Torturer was the right choice. There was a little combo you did not quite use, Nobles/Crossroads/Vagrant, but I guess there was enough power in your engine anyway.

Thanks for the videos!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 06:44:11 pm by Psyduck »
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lespeutere

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2014, 08:30:05 pm »
0

lespeutere vs mail-mi 3-1

1-0
Fun one. mail-mi went for green pretty early despite viable big goons turns. I managed to overtake him by means of VP tokens eventually.
2-0
Rats and knights and expand as weak TFB on rats. I almost screwed it up, but mail-mi couldn't afford taking the lead and 3-pile, leaving me with 1 knight only and behind by 2 VP only.
2-1
Experiment with heralds and saboteurs vs. double vault/BM. Failed. Hilariously.
3-1
IGG with beggars and masterpiece. He pounds IGGs till the end while I have more silvers providing 1 province and a 5-3 duchy split in my favour.

Thanks for the games again, and good luck for further matches.
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azadin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2014, 11:53:15 pm »
0

Hi I know recording is out now and streaming is in ;) but i nevertheless recorded my match with azadin

[...]

enjoy watching (comments appreciated)

Just watched your games, you played each of them quite well. In game 1 you could have gotten some more VP in some turns with ambassadoring coppers and then buying them back with (multiple) Goons in play. Apart from that I liked the Lighthouse approach, maybe I just would have gained one Stables less in favor of probably Market.

In game 2 Ambassador/Spice Merchant was just a strong opening, your opponent had much trouble getting rid of the junk (also misplayed turn 4). I'm little bit disappointed to see that you did without KC. ;) Would've loved to see what you could do with Diadem and KC/Nobles/Treasury/Tournament/Trusty Steed. A megaturn was certainly possible (Princess), but I understand your opponent just resigned.

In game 3 the early Merchant Guild was key, and I think getting the second Torturer was the right choice. There was a little combo you did not quite use, Nobles/Crossroads/Vagrant, but I guess there was enough power in your engine anyway.

Thanks for the videos!

So, I was RTT's opponent for these games. I'll start by saying I greatly enjoyed the match and RTT was an excellent opponent!

I'll do my own self analysis here. Psyduck, I know you already commented on RTT's play, but it'd be awesome if you could do the same for me. I'm trying to learn from my mistakes and am constantly trying to improve my play. I know I was outplayed in all three games (and the second was just...bleh), but I still feel like I did a decent job engine building.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.50baeedee4b07d338bca0a0a.1393092326842.txt
Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Ambassador, Great Hall, Market, Rabble, Stables, Witch, Border Village, Goons, Hoard
I think my biggest mistake in the first game was not Ambassadoring aggressively enough (opting to reveal estate instead of copper, for instance). RTT and I talked a bit about our match afterward and this was what we both mentioned. I probably should have bought a Stables or a Rabble on turn 8 instead of another lighthouse (I feared losing the lighthouse split), and some of my silvers probably should have been Great Halls or the remaining lighthouses. Any other comments for me on this first game?

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.50baeedee4b07d338bca0a0a.1393092853727.txt
Code: [Select]
Herbalist, Ambassador, Scavenger, Spice Merchant, Tournament, Contraband, Treasury, Adventurer, Nobles, King's Court
This game was just...bad. I honestly don't know what happened here and am embarrassed to even paste the log (we all have games like that!). Turn 4 especially, I have no idea. Just..yeah.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.50baeedee4b07d338bca0a0a.1393093818202.txt
Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Crossroads, Embargo, Vagrant, Fishing Village, Rats, Laboratory, Merchant Guild, Torturer, Nobles
This one was a heartbreaker for me. I actually thought I was doing quite well for most of the game. In fact, I still think I built the better deck. I think my one mistake was that I did not buy a second Torturer. RTT pointed this out to me afterward. This one oversight cost me the game. I was capable of drawing my entire deck by turn 13 (with some slight overdraw). If I had instead bought another Torturer on turn 8 (and suffered the single curse this would have inflicted), I'd have been hitting double torturer turns every turn. I could have added a silver in there (since I was over drawing anyway), and using a single coin token could have double provinced multiple times. I'd especially like comments on this game, as I feel like I had the right idea with the FV + Nobles + Crossroads engine (and it was working!), but I messed it up by not attacking my opponent strongly enough.

Once again, thanks RTT for the games and for the insightful advice you shared with me afterward.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 11:58:35 pm by azadin »
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jsh357

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2014, 01:26:19 am »
+1

Round 1 jsh357 vs noobify



http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1393134281449.txt
0-1
Game 1 involved Sea Hag and Rebuild.  I opened Steward hoping to do better hitting $5.  That didn't happen enough.  Blah blah rebuild blah


http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1393135028957.txt
1-1
Game 2 was Wharf/Courtyard/Big Money.  He gets a Bank while I get 3 Gold.  It seems like he's going to win it for most of the game, but he gets some unlucky draws later on while I pull off two Farmland->Province purchases.  A nail biter.


http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1393135871613.txt
2-1
Game 3 was Rebuild vs. ridiculous Crossroads/Worker/Envoy/Storeroom Vineyard engine.  I didn't actually think I was going to beat Rebuild with this deck, but I got a nice megaturn that sealed the deal.  BELIEVE!


http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1393136310836.txt
3-1
Generic Hermit/Market Square game.  That's a fun combo to play, but boring to recap.

Noobify was a polite, patient opponent who played very well.  Thanks for the games.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 03:21:25 am by jsh357 »
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noobify

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2014, 02:22:29 am »
+1

Thanks for the kind words jsh357! I still have a lot to learn, and playing against an experienced player like you helped alot!

Game 1: I thought the steward might just beat me by allowing you to play more rebuilds with a thin deck, but it cost jsh a few turns in which lucky draws of $5 allowed me to gobble up duchies. Could have played better, but i got greedy in the middle and allowed jsh to almost catch up. Thankfully, he ran out of duchies.

Game 2: I really thought i would win this. The bank proved great due to the huge draws from wharf and courtyard, but like jsh said, unlucky draws towards the end allowed him to win. I probably contributed to my own downfall by overstuffing on estates with wharf's extra buys

Game 3: Congrats on pulling off that huge engine! I think i slowed myself down by overstuffing myself with silvers in the hopes of getting more rebuilds to end the game faster. Didn't work out, and slowed myself down enough for jsh's megaturn to kill me.

Game 4: Generic hermit/market square. Lost this on turn 3 and 4 when i got bad draws and couldn't get 2 hermits on either turn, while jsh claimed 2 hermits a turn. Lost the hermit split, and hence the market square split, and subsequently, the game. Don't think i could have done any better in this game, so i'll blame bad luck. Any comments on how i could have played this one differently(or any other game) would be appreciated!

Still enjoyed it greatly! :)
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Psyduck

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2014, 11:15:09 am »
+2

So, I was RTT's opponent for these games. I'll start by saying I greatly enjoyed the match and RTT was an excellent opponent!

I'll do my own self analysis here. Psyduck, I know you already commented on RTT's play, but it'd be awesome if you could do the same for me. I'm trying to learn from my mistakes and am constantly trying to improve my play. I know I was outplayed in all three games (and the second was just...bleh), but I still feel like I did a decent job engine building.

I'm really no expert in this, but let's give it a try nevertheless.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.50baeedee4b07d338bca0a0a.1393092326842.txt
Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Ambassador, Great Hall, Market, Rabble, Stables, Witch, Border Village, Goons, Hoard
I think my biggest mistake in the first game was not Ambassadoring aggressively enough (opting to reveal estate instead of copper, for instance). RTT and I talked a bit about our match afterward and this was what we both mentioned. I probably should have bought a Stables or a Rabble on turn 8 instead of another lighthouse (I feared losing the lighthouse split), and some of my silvers probably should have been Great Halls or the remaining lighthouses. Any other comments for me on this first game?

I must agree here. Both in turns 3 and 5 you should've returned two Coppers instead of one Estate. That early Silvers don't do much for you. Concerning turn 8, yeah, I think a Stables would've helped you, at this point you had 10 treasure cards in your deck. It helps you finding your Ambassador and getting past those Coppers. The Lighthouse split is not THAT important to win. You just want to be sure to play one a turn to be protected. This can also be achieved with cycling and drawing. In fact I think 4 Lighthouses is the absolute upper limit here and should even be superior to getting 6 of them.
Later in the game your deck does a good job in picking up Border Villages with Stables and Rabbles. But the junk (Coppers, Silvers, even Lighthouses) finally prevents you from drawing your deck (turn 14 and 16) and doing awesome stuff with Goons.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.50baeedee4b07d338bca0a0a.1393092853727.txt
Code: [Select]
Herbalist, Ambassador, Scavenger, Spice Merchant, Tournament, Contraband, Treasury, Adventurer, Nobles, King's Court
This game was just...bad. I honestly don't know what happened here and am embarrassed to even paste the log (we all have games like that!). Turn 4 especially, I have no idea. Just..yeah.

I noticed three things in that game:
- The opening. Ambassador is obvious, but Spice Merchant is a huge amount better here. It cycles AND trashes Coppers. And there is no risk of terminal collisions. In contrast, Scavenger may collide with your Ambassador. Normally, one goes for Scavenger to be able to play a key card more often. Here, the key card is Ambassador. But you goal is to trash down. In a thinner deck, you will see your Ambassador roughly every second turn anyway, so there is no point opening Scavenger.
- Terminal collision in turn 4. This was just bad luck, but sometimes you make your own bad luck (see above) :).
- In that turn 4 you didn't play your Spice Merchant. You should've trashed one Copper, drawn Estate and Copper and then returned two Coppers. That nets you -1 Copper and also cycles your deck a bit so you get to see your Amb and Spice Merchant sooner again.

After turn 6 your deck consists of 16 cards (compared to RTT's 7). At this point the outcome is just clear.


http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.50baeedee4b07d338bca0a0a.1393093818202.txt
Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Crossroads, Embargo, Vagrant, Fishing Village, Rats, Laboratory, Merchant Guild, Torturer, Nobles
This one was a heartbreaker for me. I actually thought I was doing quite well for most of the game. In fact, I still think I built the better deck. I think my one mistake was that I did not buy a second Torturer. RTT pointed this out to me afterward. This one oversight cost me the game. I was capable of drawing my entire deck by turn 13 (with some slight overdraw). If I had instead bought another Torturer on turn 8 (and suffered the single curse this would have inflicted), I'd have been hitting double torturer turns every turn. I could have added a silver in there (since I was over drawing anyway), and using a single coin token could have double provinced multiple times. I'd especially like comments on this game, as I feel like I had the right idea with the FV + Nobles + Crossroads engine (and it was working!), but I messed it up by not attacking my opponent strongly enough.

Yeah, that game is much less obvious. I'm unsure about the best opening here, both Courtyard and Embargo don't seem perfect to me, although Courtyard CAN help here if RTT draws it in turn 3. I guess I would have gone for Crossroads, but of course that can be drawn dead as well. Concerning the second Torturer, yeah, a second one would have slowed RTT down. If you don't go for the Torturer, I also would have liked a Merchant Guild here to be able to get cheap engine components (Vagrant, Crossroads, Fishing Village) which all go well with your Nobles. The Lab should be ignorable.
Your engines are quite similar in the end, so it could easily have ended the other way round.

Hope my ideas help you a bit and I did not get anything messed up. :)

« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 11:16:23 am by Psyduck »
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2014, 02:11:51 pm »
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WalrusMcFishSr defeats 17and3buys 3-0

Game 1: 1-0
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.50ac3ac8e4b0fb8e18c1aa4b.1393017584898.txt

A colony game...I went for Alchemists, he didn't. Not sure if that was really the right move.

Game 2: 2-0
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.50ac3ac8e4b0fb8e18c1aa4b.1393018698085.txt

IGGs rule the day here...do you think Cutpurse is a reasonable opening? I thought I was behind this game, but I think my opponent tried to build too much after the IGG phase, whereas I was grubbing for Duchies and Estates.

Game 3: 3-0
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140221/log.50ac3ac8e4b0fb8e18c1aa4b.1393019625057.txt

A Shelters board, both of us (perhaps foolishly) ignore Rebuild...I try to build a deck with Masquerade and Vault. This game was a lot closer...I feel like he would have had me if he had spent his CM coin tokens a bit more judiciously.

Thanks for the games 17! Good luck in the rest of the tourney.
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aardshark

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2014, 07:59:58 pm »
+1

Commentary for my match with Scott Pilgrim, which he won 3-1.

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140223/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393194106280.txt

My first time playing with Knights! Otherwise a pretty boring big money board. Going first with a 5-2 opener (and not getting distracted by shiny objects) push me over the edge.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140223/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393195034967.txt

I thought this was another boring board, but Mr. Pilgrim proves me wrong. I get another 5-2, and go for big money supported with first turn mine. Scott Pilgrim blows me out of the water with an impressive engine comprised of seemingly weak components, including worker's village, moat, kings court, butcher, and an oasis. Before long he's gaining multiple provinces a turn.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140223/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393196826406.txt

Probably our most interesting board. We go for similar engines built around hunting ground and fortress, with count, crossroads, and trade routes supporting -- and importantly for him, monuments. My engine is strong, although I'm a little light on actions after he gets 6 fortresses to my 4. I end the game with a big 21st turn, winning the province split 5-3, as well as an extra duchy, and think I've taken it. But I underestimate the power of monuments. I haven't played with this card before, and I actually misread it, thinking it is worth 1 vp and fail to realize it gives vp tokens when played (I was wondering why it wasn't green...). By the end of the game he's racked up 18 vp (!) tokens to my 1. (I picked up one monument, but because I was short actions I only played it once and eventually trash it to trade routes -- almost certainly a mistake in retrospect). I end up down two points. I suspect I could have made these up if I'd prioritized gaining and playing monuments, but I didn't appreciate its power (and perhaps this would have diluted my deck too much anyway). Great game! I'm inexperienced at engine building, and even though I didn't win this I'm pleased with how my deck came together.

Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140223/log.5219b890e4b0d7c017c17bab.1393197483887.txt

I go for ill-gotten gains and load him up with curses, but it isn't enough to stop his wharf-and-squire engine. Quarry and infinite buys allow him to pull ahead and end the game early on piles on turn 16.

Thanks again for the great match Scott Pilgrim! Good luck in your future rounds!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 08:01:44 pm by aardshark »
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mail-mi

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2014, 08:46:05 pm »
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lespeutere vs mail-mi 3-1

1-0
Fun one. mail-mi went for green pretty early despite viable big goons turns. I managed to overtake him by means of VP tokens eventually.
2-0
Rats and knights and expand as weak TFB on rats. I almost screwed it up, but mail-mi couldn't afford taking the lead and 3-pile, leaving me with 1 knight only and behind by 2 VP only.
2-1
Experiment with heralds and saboteurs vs. double vault/BM. Failed. Hilariously.
3-1
IGG with beggars and masterpiece. He pounds IGGs till the end while I have more silvers providing 1 province and a 5-3 duchy split in my favour.

Thanks for the games again, and good luck for further matches.

1. yeah I got pretty lucky during the first couple of rounds, but started greening too early and feel behind.

2. I needed more money for my NV megaturn, and so could not afford to get the lead in points and get enough piles out. I was really freaking out about getting Sir Martin, because he was the only +buy, then got really nervous everytime Les played knights, but I managed to get it safely stowed away on my NV mat--to no avail.

3. I got kind of nervous, but not really because as soon as I saw him going for the sabs I pounded into the green. He didn't have enough money to get nearly any points, and I took the lead and held it the whole time. Just goes to show you that Sab, because of the fact that it doesn't do anything for you, isnt' that great of a card.

4. yeah I needed more silvers.
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hsiale

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2014, 06:37:51 pm »
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I could not play the match against Marin during the week due to mutual availability problems, but we played today. Games:

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1393257576370.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1393259271057.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1393259910267.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1393260827624.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1393280871752.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140224/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1393284287060.txt
 
For me the most interesting were the first game, where I got killed by a Double Tactician/Butcher engine I had no clue existed here and the last, which was the craziest Possession game I ever played. There were moments when we were not sure who plays the next turn. It had Baker, Chapel, Golem and Saboteur. Each of us played 22 normal turns, additionally Marin possessed me 11 times and I possessed him 16 times. Saboteur was the star of my deck, killing one of Marin's Possessions, two Golems and two Duchies.
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