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Author Topic: Cookie Clicker?  (Read 39457 times)

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Watno

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2014, 09:32:20 am »
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I find it surprising that people actually play this play this once.
FTFY
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Davio

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2014, 09:50:12 am »
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Well, I played it once out of sheer curiosity to see what the fuss was all about, I even installed the CookieMaster browser add-on to optimize stuff. And then I just hacked it in, bought everything and was pretty much done.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2014, 01:02:09 pm »
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My definition for game:

A game is a piece of art in which a player or players interact with the game itself or with each other under a set of artificial rules which allow the players to complete goals and to fail at it, depending on how the players interact with the game or each other.

By my definition, Cookie Clicker isn't a game because you can't lose. Tag is a game, War the card game (without a variant or house rule that adds interactivity) isn't, War the... war isn't, a tabletop RPG is, most slot machines are but not all of them, and I don't know what Farmville is so I can't tell if or not it's a game. And, quite ironically, The Game is not a game because you can't win (and by the way, you just lost it).

Why isn't War a game in your definition? You can lose in the card game, when the other player gets all the cards. It's pure random luck, but you call slot machines a game. Or is the decision of when to pull the lever enough for you? There still isn't any skill involved.

Real war fits your definition too. The rules are reality, the players are all people. You can certainly lose in a war.

You can even fit Cookie Clicker in your definition, because you CAN fail at it. The goal is to get certain achievements and you can certainly play poorly enough to fail at that.
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Awaclus

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2014, 03:19:00 pm »
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My definition for game:

A game is a piece of art in which a player or players interact with the game itself or with each other under a set of artificial rules which allow the players to complete goals and to fail at it, depending on how the players interact with the game or each other.

By my definition, Cookie Clicker isn't a game because you can't lose. Tag is a game, War the card game (without a variant or house rule that adds interactivity) isn't, War the... war isn't, a tabletop RPG is, most slot machines are but not all of them, and I don't know what Farmville is so I can't tell if or not it's a game. And, quite ironically, The Game is not a game because you can't win (and by the way, you just lost it).

Why isn't War a game in your definition? You can lose in the card game, when the other player gets all the cards. It's pure random luck, but you call slot machines a game. Or is the decision of when to pull the lever enough for you? There still isn't any skill involved.

Real war fits your definition too. The rules are reality, the players are all people. You can certainly lose in a war.

You can even fit Cookie Clicker in your definition, because you CAN fail at it. The goal is to get certain achievements and you can certainly play poorly enough to fail at that.
"Most slot machines are but not all of them" means that the ones that don't have any interactivity aren't games. Pretty much all of the slot machines here do involve making decisions other than pulling a lever, though.

Real war is not a piece of art and doesn't have artificial rules.

Are there achievements in Cookie Clicker that become unavailable if you make a mistake?
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Tables

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2014, 05:19:51 pm »
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Yes. Neverclick, Hardcore, Speed Baking I through III, and perhaps others.

Although, of those only Neverclick is a legitimate achievement. The others are all shadow achievements.
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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2014, 05:40:20 pm »
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My definition for game:

A game is a piece of art in which a player or players interact with the game itself or with each other under a set of artificial rules which allow the players to complete goals and to fail at it, depending on how the players interact with the game or each other.

By my definition, Cookie Clicker isn't a game because you can't lose. Tag is a game, War the card game (without a variant or house rule that adds interactivity) isn't, War the... war isn't, a tabletop RPG is, most slot machines are but not all of them, and I don't know what Farmville is so I can't tell if or not it's a game. And, quite ironically, The Game is not a game because you can't win (and by the way, you just lost it).

Why isn't War a game in your definition? You can lose in the card game, when the other player gets all the cards. It's pure random luck, but you call slot machines a game. Or is the decision of when to pull the lever enough for you? There still isn't any skill involved.

Real war fits your definition too. The rules are reality, the players are all people. You can certainly lose in a war.

You can even fit Cookie Clicker in your definition, because you CAN fail at it. The goal is to get certain achievements and you can certainly play poorly enough to fail at that.
"Most slot machines are but not all of them" means that the ones that don't have any interactivity aren't games. Pretty much all of the slot machines here do involve making decisions other than pulling a lever, though.

Real war is not a piece of art and doesn't have artificial rules.

Are there achievements in Cookie Clicker that become unavailable if you make a mistake?

what kind of decisions do those slot machines have?  Is it actually possible to be skilled at playing them, such that a skillful player has more success than a poor player?

"Art" itself can have a very broad definition.  But fair enough.

As for Cookie Clicker, I haven't played it myself, but Tables has answered.  I also expect that there are achievements for reaching absurdly high numbers which you could only do in a reasonable time frame with the right decisions.  Put another way, your definition means that the difference between a game and a non-game could be as little as a simple time limit.
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Kirian

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2014, 10:40:43 pm »
+1

Real war is not a piece of art and doesn't have artificial rules.

A guy named Sun Tzu would like to have a word with you on both of those counts, and the Geneva Conventions would like to talk about the second one in particular.
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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2014, 12:39:52 pm »
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Yes. Neverclick, Hardcore, Speed Baking I through III, and perhaps others.

Although, of those only Neverclick is a legitimate achievement. The others are all shadow achievements.

Oh. I guess it's a game then.

A guy named Sun Tzu would like to have a word with you on both of those counts, and the Geneva Conventions would like to talk about the second one in particular.

I didn't know that Sun Tzu used warfare as a tool for artistic expression, and ultimately it's possible to break the rules.

what kind of decisions do those slot machines have?  Is it actually possible to be skilled at playing them, such that a skillful player has more success than a poor player?

"Art" itself can have a very broad definition.  But fair enough.

As for Cookie Clicker, I haven't played it myself, but Tables has answered.  I also expect that there are achievements for reaching absurdly high numbers which you could only do in a reasonable time frame with the right decisions.  Put another way, your definition means that the difference between a game and a non-game could be as little as a simple time limit.

Well, it looks like the meaning of "slot machine" in English is more narrow than that of the Finnish word "rahapeliautomaatti" even though they are the only possible translations for each other. In any case, there's for example a game called Payazzo in which you insert a coin and try to flick it into one of the winning slots (you do the flicking manually and get to control the initial speed of the coin, the angle is predetermined). And then there are multiple variants of solitaire poker, and even the slot machines which are based on wheels pretty much always involve some sort of a decision (typically, each round you spin the wheels twice and get to lock some of them after the first spin).
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DStu

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2014, 12:59:06 pm »
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War

Or wasnt that the thread where we explian all the jokes?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:00:16 pm by DStu »
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Witherweaver

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2014, 03:26:29 pm »
+1

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Kirian

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2014, 04:29:54 pm »
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War

Or wasnt that the thread where we explian all the jokes?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_of_War does not exist.  Argument settled.

Possibly, but Joshua sure liked his War Games...

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SirPeebles

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2014, 07:30:46 am »
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I recently got to one sextillion cookies, and now my total is written in scientific notation.  I'm not a fan of that.
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shraeye

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #88 on: February 20, 2014, 07:37:18 am »
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Nice!  I expect to hit that later today, I'm just 20 some quint away
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liopoil

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #89 on: February 20, 2014, 10:06:55 am »
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Wow. I'm still at 178 quint total... although it's growing much faster now with prisms.
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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2014, 11:21:55 am »
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done! yeah, that scientific notation isn't as fun as strings of numbers, though it is informative.  Cookie clicker has taught me to appreciate the magnitude of large numbers.  Before, I'd have to count out sets of zeros to know what 1e21 was called.  And I couldn't even fathom how large that really was.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 11:24:23 am by shraeye »
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Tables

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2014, 01:33:16 pm »
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I decided to load up Cookie Monster for the first time the other day. It pretty much just does what my spreadsheet already did, except with more lag. Well, that's not entirely true, the Golden Cookie features are really helpful. I like that I can put numbers into 'scientific notation' but it bugs me that they don't actually use proper standard scientific notation, since it does [1-1000)*10^(3x) and not [1-10)*10^x as it should. If I could work out how, that's one thing I'd change with it.
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jonts26

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2014, 01:37:14 pm »
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I decided to load up Cookie Monster for the first time the other day. It pretty much just does what my spreadsheet already did, except with more lag. Well, that's not entirely true, the Golden Cookie features are really helpful. I like that I can put numbers into 'scientific notation' but it bugs me that they don't actually use proper standard scientific notation, since it does [1-1000)*10^(3x) and not [1-10)*10^x as it should. If I could work out how, that's one thing I'd change with it.

That's called engineering notation. And personally I prefer it, but I can see why you might prefer scientific. If you try the CookieMaster extension I think they have the option for normal scientific.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2014, 02:09:51 pm »
+1

It seems like if you don't play cookie clicker for a month or two you lose your save?  I guess it's stored in.. well, cookies?
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Tables

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2014, 02:13:55 pm »
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I decided to load up Cookie Monster for the first time the other day. It pretty much just does what my spreadsheet already did, except with more lag. Well, that's not entirely true, the Golden Cookie features are really helpful. I like that I can put numbers into 'scientific notation' but it bugs me that they don't actually use proper standard scientific notation, since it does [1-1000)*10^(3x) and not [1-10)*10^x as it should. If I could work out how, that's one thing I'd change with it.

That's called engineering notation. And personally I prefer it, but I can see why you might prefer scientific. If you try the CookieMaster extension I think they have the option for normal scientific.

CookieMaster? Hmm... I'll look into it I suppose.

Edit: It doesn't have an option for it, but it at least has nicer looking numbers which I'm more used to comprehending (e.g. billion, trillion, quadrillion), plus it doesn't lag out the game, so gonna stick with that.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 03:02:27 pm by Tables »
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2014, 02:50:08 pm »
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It seems like if you don't play cookie clicker for a month or two you lose your save?  I guess it's stored in.. well, cookies?

Older saves are stored in cookies, newer saves are stored locally, so you shouldn't have the problem anymore.
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Tables

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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2014, 08:04:57 pm »
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Over most of the last hour, I've managed to lose cookies, simply because my Wrath Cookies decided to chain Ruin-Clot-Ruin-Clot without a single good event in between except a single Lucky.

Well, I have been technically gaining cookies because Wrinklers, but it's still pretty annoying to just see no progress getting made.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2014, 08:25:48 pm »
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I feel like frenzy + lucky and the occasional frenzy+click frenzy makes elder pact the better option, though I haven't done the math.
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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2014, 08:29:53 pm »
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I feel like frenzy + lucky and the occasional frenzy+click frenzy makes elder pact the better option, though I haven't done the math.
It used to be, the wrinklers add a wrinkle to the math though.
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Re: Cookie Clicker?
« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2014, 01:28:43 am »
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I just only get One Mind.  You can get the Golden Cookies together often, and you get wrinklers.
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