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Author Topic: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...  (Read 1965 times)

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Marcus316

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I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« on: November 24, 2011, 01:04:29 am »
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Forgive my newness, but here's the first time I ran up against KC+Torturer ... and just to make things more painful, add a few Golems ... and Wharf, of course.

Obviously, I haven't played too many games with Torturer in the Kingdom, so the danger didn't occur to me until it was too late. I think I put up a valiant effort before I got thrashed at the end.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201111/23/game-20111123-215327-f17d0834.html

Any advice for the poor new player would be appreciated, if anyone cares to comment. :)
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jonts26

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2011, 02:28:06 am »
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A few thoughts:

1. This game has the infamous KC/Masquerade/Militia pin potential. That might have been the actual way to go.
2. But ignoring that, multiplied torturers is nasty. And KC and wharf make it easy to reliably spam them.
3. Masquerade is a great opening card. The ability to trash a card while still having 5 cards in hand to play is huge. It's also a soft counter to torturer.
4. Golem is great for finding action cards you want to spam. But in this game, the combination of KC/wharf/torturer as well as minor trashing from masq will make it likely to draw your whole deck, making golem useless.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2011, 02:31:51 am »
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I'm kind of too lazy to read the whole log, but I can probably make a couple of comments just from your decks.

1. Don't let your opponent open 5/2. Okay. Unhelpful.  ;)

2. If you're going to go for a KC deck, you really want some trashing. I certainly would have picked up a Masquerade with one of your opening 2 buys.

3. You had 8 action cards out of 45. Your opponent had 14 out of 30. He's going go be KCing a lot more often than you are.

4. Personally, I wouldn't have gone for Golems here. Sure, they look nice with all the juicy action cards around, but with KC + trashing, it won't be particularly hard to find those actions to play, and clogging your deck up with a Potion is a high price to pay for only one type of card.

5. Judging by your post you've probably already gathered this, but I'm not sure why you didn't get any Torturers. I mean, KC + Smithy is pretty nice, especially if you can get two KCs + Smithy in one hand, and the Torturer attack is some pretty nice icing on the cake.

6. Have you heard of the King's Court + Goons + Masquerade pin? Substitute Militia for Goons, and it still works. Easier to set up, but also it's not going to be getting you VP tokens. Of course, this is going to be relevant in a lot less games than some of the other points. Still something to think about.

I think the main thing to take away is that in a King's Court deck you really need a high action density. Of course, that doesn't mean neglecting buying power. But once you're drawing your whole deck every turn, all you need is two Golds, two Silvers, a KCed Militia and at least one Wharf to be buying 2 Provinces per turn.

Edit: ninja'd on just about everything!  :)
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dondon151

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2011, 03:40:35 am »
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If you can KC a Wharf once, as long as you have an appreciable action density, you can pretty reliably KC a Wharf every subsequent turn. You'll have a hand of 11 cards, and you only have to match up a KC and a Wharf in those 11 cards. If you can pull of KC-KC-X-X-X, that's even more brutal.

KC-Wharf just snowballs. TR-Wharf is a little less potent, but still pretty powerful.
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ftl

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2011, 04:29:27 am »
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You ignored both the only cursing attack on the board (torturer) and the only trashing on the board (masquerade). That's a bad combination of things to ignore.
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Marcus316

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2011, 09:47:11 am »
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Thanks for the comments. Gotta get better about my tunnel vision on turn one ("Oh, hey! I see cards I recognize and have done well with! Let's get going! ... wait, what's this Torturer my opponent bought so many of?").

I'll also pay more attention when Torturer and Witch come up in my games. :)

I'll also also have to look at the KC+Militia+Masq pin thing ... so much to learn. Not quite like MTG, but similar ideas, anyways.
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AJD

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2011, 09:49:23 am »
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Hmm, strategy question: if you've got a KC-Wharf in play and get hit by a KC-Torturer, would it be a good choice to discard your whole hand (since you've still got six cards coming up for your next turn) instead of taking any curses?
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def

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2011, 01:04:16 pm »
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Depends. If there is a trasher in your deck, think about the probability to draw it next turn. If it's high enough, you could take the curses and trash them next turn, also leaving less curses in the supply and therefore reducing the torturer's power.
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jotheonah

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2011, 12:30:33 am »
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Especially if the trasher is Forge.

I had this happen once. I'm sure my opponent was really confused when I took the third (and fourth) Curse in his Torturer pin instead of taking the discard option. Then I forged them all into a Copper. Then I used Watchtower to trash the Copper. (I should have Forged them into a Curse instead, but live and learn).

Also every now and then if you have a Vault in hand it can be worth it to take a bunch of Curses so you have extra cards to discard. But only if it lets you buy something that offsets all those Curses (like a Colony).
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def

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2011, 07:32:41 am »
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Well, if you've got a watchtower in hand, AJD's question is clearly answered. Or did you draw it?
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jotheonah

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Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2011, 01:46:34 pm »
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Good point. I must have had it in a Haven or a Caravan or something, or else I would have just trashed the curses on the way in. (Though this way was more fun.)
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